Overall Main Event Grand Prize Increases to $200,000 in 2014

[Hells Satans]

Everybody has their own views on these things and they are always aligned with what those people think are their interests. I am a sucker for the big pot (that's why I keep blowing money on FanDuel every week for the $1m prize in footballl; coming in 2nd twice makes me want to cry). So, I'm up for $200k, or $2m, or whatever, and will pay accordingly....but I realize that's not for everyone and that's awesome. I would hate to lose some really good people who play this contest.

On the other hand, there's no reason to think we are permanently entitled to a $1500 price point. If Greg and Tom think $1600 or $1700 is the number that works to grow the business, they should do it without remorse. Most people will find the extra money.

In my view, the Main Event is about winning the Overall Prize. I play in plenty of other leagues where it is about winning the league, but not the Main Event. That's about the lottery ticket. Let's reward the best of the best - the Top 5. I agree with Steve and Glenn and I also agree with KJ (I think; graphs confuse me). Here's what I would do:

1.) Eliminate 3rd place prizes in the Classic. Who cares about 3rd place. This shouldn't be little league where you get a trophy for being almost good. At 420 teams, that gives you an extra $37,000 to work with.

2.) Raise the entry fee $100, giving you an extra $42,000 at 420 teams.

3.) With $79k extra money, raise the ME prizes as follows (STats can find an extra K):

1st - $150k (50)
2nd - $40k (15)
3rd - $25k (10)
4th: $12.5k (2.5)
5th $10k (2.5)

4.) If people prefer $125k and spreading that $25K around


1st - $125k (25)
2nd - $50k (25)
3rd - $30k (15)
4th: $20k (10)
5th $12.5k (5)

[Money]

Is this for the 12 team event? It will be the best game in town in no time at all. Get ready to manage a team and not simply draft a team fella's. The NFBC XII is taking a huge step up next season.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Everybody has their own views on these things and they are always aligned with what those people think are their interests. I am a sucker for the big pot (that's why I keep blowing money on FanDuel every week for the $1m prize in footballl; coming in 2nd twice makes me want to cry). So, I'm up for $200k, or $2m, or whatever, and will pay accordingly....but I realize that's not for everyone and that's awesome. I would hate to lose some really good people who play this contest.

On the other hand, there's no reason to think we are permanently entitled to a $1500 price point. If Greg and Tom think $1600 or $1700 is the number that works to grow the business, they should do it without remorse. Most people will find the extra money.

In my view, the Main Event is about winning the Overall Prize. I play in plenty of other leagues where it is about winning the league, but not the Main Event. That's about the lottery ticket. Let's reward the best of the best - the Top 5. I agree with Steve and Glenn and I also agree with KJ (I think; graphs confuse me). Here's what I would do:

1.) Eliminate 3rd place prizes in the Classic. Who cares about 3rd place. This shouldn't be little league where you get a trophy for being almost good. At 420 teams, that gives you an extra $37,000 to work with.

2.) Raise the entry fee $100, giving you an extra $42,000 at 420 teams.

3.) With $79k extra money, raise the ME prizes as follows (STats can find an extra K):

1st - $150k (50)
2nd - $40k (15)
3rd - $25k (10)
4th: $12.5k (2.5)
5th $10k (2.5)

4.) If people prefer $125k and spreading that $25K around


1st - $125k (25)
2nd - $50k (25)
3rd - $30k (15)
4th: $20k (10)
5th $12.5k (5)

This post got me thinking of a game that Bob, Q, Glenn, Mike, Mikey and others would probably love.....

Hold drafts as we do today. 15 teams per league. Everybody drafts.
After those drafts, those leagues are dissolved.
All that is left is an Overall League.
This would eliminate payments to league winners completely.
All $$$ would go to just the top three or maybe even make it Winner take all.
.

[Hells Satans]

As long as MTM is in my drafting league, I'm in!!

[DOUGHBOYS]

As long as MTM is in my drafting league, I'm in!!

[Happenstance]

What makes this so difficult is that the *primary* reason why people play in the Main Event differs.

- Some play for the grand prize.
- Some play for a positive expected value.
- Some play for the thrill of competing in a league against the best in the world.
- Some play for the camaraderie/friendships.

I'm sure there are other reasons too, all of which are perfectly valid - each entry fee is as good as another's. But as we're seeing in this thread, attempts to get players who play for reason might threaten the participation of players who play for another.

If you're going to thread this needle, it seems to me that you'd want to increase the grand prize without significantly altering the entry fee and league prizes. And it goes without saying that the only way that can happen is for more people to play. Quite the chicken and egg problem.

I haven't thought this through nearly as much as others, but perhaps something along this line of thinking would work:

-Change league championship prize from 4.33x to 4.0x. Keep 2nd and 3rd at 2.0x and 1.0x respectively.
-Raise entry fee by $100.
-Recruit a few additional fantasy sports "celebrities" to play and advertise the game (the Yahoo/ESPN types) - I'm sure this is much easier said than done. (I think this would help for #3 above - the thrill of competition)
-Encourage STATS to further invest in a grand prize in the hopes of attracting more players. A bit of "if you build it, they will come" approach similar to how this game first started 11 years ago.

I 'm sure you can get to $125k this way and maybe even $150k (At 30 leagues, this would increase the grand prize by $39k assuming no increase in vig).

I respect that it's a lot easier to spend somebody else's money than your own. In my mind, the NFBC Main Event should aim to be like (and in many ways, already IS like) the WSOP Main Event and I really want you to get there.

[poopytooth]

For a $125k grand prize...I would enter once...for $200k I would likely go twice or at least really give it some hard thought.

[la Jolla]

This post got me thinking of a game that Bob, Q, Glenn, Mike, Mikey and others would probably love.....

Hold drafts as we do today. 15 teams per league. Everybody drafts.
After those drafts, those leagues are dissolved.
All that is left is an Overall League.
This would eliminate payments to league winners completely.
All $$$ would go to just the top three or maybe even make it Winner take all.

Mimics WSOP structure. Great idea.

[DOUGHBOYS]

It was just in jest.
FAAB would kill it.....along with other things not thought about, I'm sure.
I think It would work in the 50 rounder contest however.

[la Jolla]

I think it's a solid concept for a DC event. I imagine the overall prize pool for something like this could grow rather quickly if there were no league prizes.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Wow, this is what I get for spending some time with the family and leaving the Message Boards unpoliced for 24 hours. I guess I deserve this.

Mikey always thinks big and I like that, but I think I was just PRANKED. Were there cameras on me when I took that phone call and listened to his ideas to grow the NFBC? Wow.

Okay, let me put the facts out there very succinctly:

The NFBC IS NOT having a guaranteed $200,000 grand prize in 2014.
The NFBC IS NOT having a guaranteed $150,000 grand prize in 2014.
The NFBC IS NOT expanding entry fees by ungodly amounts or changing the format much in 2014.

If we are going to get this new season started next week and get drafts started in another week then we have to move forward with what we feel is an aggressive plan for 2014. We have approved it with management and we are ready to get the season started.

I appreciate all of the aggressive ideas to grow the NFBC in the future and there's no doubt that round-table discussions, surveys, and more are needed to put the best plan in place going forward. It looks like that plan was put in place at last week's Jets game without me!! But we've worked hard for 10 years to grow our event to this point and I don't think we're going to gamble the farm in one year to see just how big this market really is.

I almost feel like I'm supposed to apologize for not rolling the dice more, but honestly I don't think we need to. We are trying each year to push the envelope here and this year will be no different. We hope to grow incrementally and if there is a way to take one of our events to a higher level we will definitely listen and plan accordingly. With a week before our site launch, we certainly aren't ready to make that happen right now.

Sure, we could easily create a $200,000 grand prize by:
a) eliminating third place league money in all 15-team leagues (not a goal of ours)
b) having even less 2nd place league prize money (not a goal of ours)
c) raising the entry fee by $200-500 (not a goal of ours)
d) growing the number of participants from its current 435 teams

There are several posts on this thread that suggest that if we just had a more worthy grand prize for this 15-team Main Event the casual players would come out in droves. Those folks might be right, and maybe $100,000 just doesn't attract their eyes anymore, but let's admit that this is a tough format and not everyone can win in it whether the grand prize was $100,000 or $1 million. Honestly, we probably have a better chance of attracting the casual fantasy player to a 12-team Main Event with a six-figure grand prize than we do to our 15-teamer.

But that doesn't mean our combined plans can't lead to a bigger grand prize beyond this year. We want to see this year if we can grow both Main Events without hurting the league prizes, which we honestly believe are as important if not more important than the big carrot. But both can be enhanced to help our events grow.

We aren't offering a $200,000 grand prize in 2014 and I think I was set up to look like I was considering it. Trust me, I have enough stress in my life with each guaranteed overall prize pool in each national contest in each sport we offer to suddenly double it in one contest. You have no idea how exposed you feel right up until you reach that final number. Guaranteeing $200,000 based on a lot of "could be's" without really surveying our customers thoroughly would be the biggest mistake I could make today. Again, I'll share the goal of that grand prize reaching that level one day and to do it we would need the perfect promotional partner because right now we don't have that vehicle to attract several hundred more new players. Plus there's a churn rate in the 15-team format that will always exist because some of you guys are just too damn good. So retaining customers is as important as attracting new ones.

I think our goals are all on the same page; well, at least I hope so. Maybe we haven't grown like a New York Minute for some folks and we've disappointed them. Still, we need to see if everyone's definition of growth is similar and if there is enough support to take us to the levels that some folks feel is an easy reach for the NFBC. We'll find out soon.

[poopytooth]

Greg - no need to apologize. Thank you for clarifying. You provide all of us with the opportunity to have a great time and enjoy the season. I agree...any major changes should be well planned. Even more so though, if I was new and wasn't familiar with the great service, I may wonder why things changed vs what is advertised.

Sure, some will not like this, but if you have 25 active posters in these threads, I would be surprised and that is not even 10% of your participants. Maybe a survey tied to sign ups would help?

There were some good ideas posted and I'm sure they will be implemented if possible at some point.

Please keep in mind the auction software capabilities...would please many people.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Please keep in mind the auction software capabilities...would please many people.

Thanks Michael. People keep talking about auction software as if it's something we've never thought about. Sure, we'd love to grow the auction business and do lower-priced auctions online, but we don't own auction software right now and it's not an easy piece to add right now. It can be done, but we'd be starting from scratch and putting a lot of things on hold to do this.

That being said, it's definitely on our long-range items and a goal of ours, but you can see the suggestions on FAAB, Live Scoring, etc., plus we are building a new online draft room, so there are plenty of items ahead of this. I don't see online auction software being finished for us in quite some time, but we understand how it would help us for all three sports, not just baseball.

Thanks again.

[MadCow Sez]

Ken and I would gladly take our remaining shares of last year's $1,000,000 prize.

[headhunters]

greg- you are doing a great job. hope you watched the pack the last 2 weeks- now you know what us bear fans have been watching for the last 21 years!

[Baseball Furies]

Wow, this is what I get for spending some time with the family and leaving the Message Boards unpoliced for 24 hours. I guess I deserve this.

Mikey always thinks big and I like that, but I think I was just PRANKED. Were there cameras on me when I took that phone call and listened to his ideas to grow the NFBC? Wow.

Okay, let me put the facts out there very succinctly:

The NFBC IS NOT having a guaranteed $200,000 grand prize in 2014.
The NFBC IS NOT having a guaranteed $150,000 grand prize in 2014.
The NFBC IS NOT expanding entry fees by ungodly amounts or changing the format much in 2014.

If we are going to get this new season started next week and get drafts started in another week then we have to move forward with what we feel is an aggressive plan for 2014. We have approved it with management and we are ready to get the season started.

I appreciate all of the aggressive ideas to grow the NFBC in the future and there's no doubt that round-table discussions, surveys, and more are needed to put the best plan in place going forward. It looks like that plan was put in place at last week's Jets game without me!! But we've worked hard for 10 years to grow our event to this point and I don't think we're going to gamble the farm in one year to see just how big this market really is.

I almost feel like I'm supposed to apologize for not rolling the dice more, but honestly I don't think we need to. We are trying each year to push the envelope here and this year will be no different. We hope to grow incrementally and if there is a way to take one of our events to a higher level we will definitely listen and plan accordingly. With a week before our site launch, we certainly aren't ready to make that happen right now.

Sure, we could easily create a $200,000 grand prize by:
a) eliminating third place league money in all 15-team leagues (not a goal of ours)
b) having even less 2nd place league prize money (not a goal of ours)
c) raising the entry fee by $200-500 (not a goal of ours)
d) growing the number of participants from its current 435 teams

There are several posts on this thread that suggest that if we just had a more worthy grand prize for this 15-team Main Event the casual players would come out in droves. Those folks might be right, and maybe $100,000 just doesn't attract their eyes anymore, but let's admit that this is a tough format and not everyone can win in it whether the grand prize was $100,000 or $1 million. Honestly, we probably have a better chance of attracting the casual fantasy player to a 12-team Main Event with a six-figure grand prize than we do to our 15-teamer.

But that doesn't mean our combined plans can't lead to a bigger grand prize beyond this year. We want to see this year if we can grow both Main Events without hurting the league prizes, which we honestly believe are as important if not more important than the big carrot. But both can be enhanced to help our events grow.

We aren't offering a $200,000 grand prize in 2014 and I think I was set up to look like I was considering it. Trust me, I have enough stress in my life with each guaranteed overall prize pool in each national contest in each sport we offer to suddenly double it in one contest. You have no idea how exposed you feel right up until you reach that final number. Guaranteeing $200,000 based on a lot of "could be's" without really surveying our customers thoroughly would be the biggest mistake I could make today. Again, I'll share the goal of that grand prize reaching that level one day and to do it we would need the perfect promotional partner because right now we don't have that vehicle to attract several hundred more new players. Plus there's a churn rate in the 15-team format that will always exist because some of you guys are just too damn good. So retaining customers is as important as attracting new ones.

I think our goals are all on the same page; well, at least I hope so. Maybe we haven't grown like a New York Minute for some folks and we've disappointed them. Still, we need to see if everyone's definition of growth is similar and if there is enough support to take us to the levels that some folks feel is an easy reach for the NFBC. We'll find out soon.

Greg,
This wasn't intended to "prank" you or anyone else, nor was it a "set up". I simply brought it up because someone else brought the idea up of increasing the overall grand prize on another thread, and we had spoken about it as one of the many topics I threw out there for consideration. So rather than try to completely pick apart and analyze what you just posted here, I'd just like to know what exactly is a goal of the NFBC for 2014? What can we outside those us who are comfortable with the status quo expect in terms of contest improvement, change, and overall the game play experience? What about any rule change enhancements like DL spots and line-up changes for example? What about the overall live event experience? What about FAAB? What about this Cutline contest idea that was floated? What about the Platinum League? What about the software enhancements that have been listed here and proposed time and time again? What about anything for this year for that matter other than a new draft room that was 10 years antiquated anyway? And just what exactly is the plan going forward for any serious dialogue to continue about changing and improving without the fear of high risk, roll-of-the dice business moves that have been alluded to as roadblocks to getting anything done other than tweaks and incremental changes or improvements done? It doesn't seem that from what you have just posted here, that much if anything is going to change or is under consideration. It sounds as though that the Main Event 15-team format is about to go the way of the dodo because it's just too difficult of a format for people, and that there is no way with the current existing marketing budget and plan that exists to both solve the annual attrition rate of this contest while growing it. How is the Main Event of the NFBC anymore difficult to conquer for the grand prize than any of these million dollar prizes offered on the daily sites? Given how they are structured, the crazy luck element on a day-to-day basis, the hundreds of gimmicks that are employed, the tens of thousands of participants playing on any given site at any time, etc. you'd have a better chance of being struck by lightning if you're the lay player thinking that your're going to score big playing those games. But yet they play to the tune of millions of dollars invested per day, and for one reason and one reason only: the allure of the grand prize. I don't know what is more frustrating: the fact that a "New York Minute" translates into 10 years in terms of NFBC time, or that the rest of this industry operates on this clock while we essentially hold pat again this year and stay where we are hoping that these events are going to grow. I cannot believe that that word was even used in reference to this coming year's plan and attainment of certain desired goals. Next thing you'll be adding "trying" and "praying" to the business plan. I could go on, but I won't. I'm sure that this will make a small minority of the small minority of us that operate on these boards very happy. Perhaps we could start a second message board forum. One that caters to those of the population who like to play it safe, keep the status quo, not rock the boat, have thin skins about having theirs or anyone else's balls busted, have no sense of humor, and don't often leave the safety of their own homes to operate in the reality of the real world once in a while (particularly the world of business as it currently exists in capitalist America outside of Wisconsin and perhaps a few other mid-western states). The rest of us folks who are of the opposite persuasion could have their own forum. This way no one gets upset and everyone is happy especially when they don't have to deal with anything that I have to say if they choose "The Message Board of Good" and not "The Message Board of The Dark Side" where myself and the other evil entities who lurk in the dark shadowy places of the NFBC (usually in NY and NJ) exist. You can leave it up to us to choose which of these categories we fall into and we can sign in to the applicable forum.

So please, just tell me/us or whoever else cares, what's the plan and what's new for 2014, and what can we definitively expect? Just straight talk without all the beating around the bush and vague references to the unforeseeable future as it now stands. No,I am not the union steward for the NFBC or the voice of the masses as I have been insanely accused of trying to be. I have plenty of better things to do with my time. But I will tell you as one of your top paying customers who has always had your best interests at heart (as I hope you could get from my call with you the other day), and one who has done nothing but attempt to help contribute to your coffers each year despite my often aggressive and un-PC approach, that I would just like to know what I will be definitely getting for my money this year as opposed to last. That's it. I will leave it at that and go about my business. If anyone was "pranked" or duped it was me for thinking what I had to say really mattered or was even going to be considered at all. I would have preferred you just started our conversation by saying everything you just posted here. It would have saved me a lot of time and energy knowing that 2014 was already a wash and decided on and November! was just too early to consider any of the obviously "brazen" and "high-risk" ideas I discussed. It's just discouraging what a lost cause this has been yet again.

And if anyone reading this has a problem about what I have just said and what I might say to follow that you feel is again being disrespectful to Greg, show some balls and just spare me your self-righteous indignation and diatribes here on this forum, and call me directly with them. You don't know me. Those that do know what I'm all about and the kind of person I am at heart have met me and/or have spoken to me extensively. If you would like to find out for yourself before you pass judgement on me, here's my cell number: 973-454-0741. Call me anytime. If I miss your call, just leave a message and I'll call you back. Greg is a big boy and can handle himself. Stop hiding behind the anonymity of your message board monikers, and own up to what you have to say to me personally. I can dish it out as well I can take it. I will be more than happy to entertain any rational dialogue regarding the pro's and con's of the NFBC or anything about me that is of such concern that it is keeping you up nights, that you feel the need to rip on me personally in defense of whatever you take issue with that I have to say or share in terms of my opinion. Otherwise, and I quote Mr. Potter, shut your respective pie holes!

As far as respect goes, where I come from it's earned no matter what title or position a person holds. I have never known a business in my life that I have patronized with as much money as I do year in and year out that the clientele are treated which such blatant disregard and annoyance, and with as little concern towards customer satisfaction and retention as this company. And I'm not the only one who feels this way. Not even close. But yet since the prevailing mentality is that we'll all just keep on lining up to pay our money each year since it's virtually the only game in town at this point, why significantly change a thing? And why change a thing when there are enough of the base who will always jump on these boards to bravely champion the status quo and vehemently attack anyone who dare more than delicately mention this or that which could or does possibly ruffle Greg's or anyone else's feathers. This is of course immediately construed to mean that me and others who have tried and continue to try and are rebuffed are just asshole trouble-makers who have a collective bug up their ass or an ax to grind or whatever. I reckon back to the egregious offense of last year that someone mentioned when I tried to get the MTM Super promoted on Sirius XM radio. God forbid I should try to get more publicity and exposure for one of the NFBC's events and help make them more money. Like I'm making a commission on this somehow. Give me a fucking break! What's next? Perhaps I'll get attacked for pushing for a later FAAB run this year if that even happens? Maybe I'll take flak for over-promoting and helping fill last year's second Diamond league? Or perhaps if a Platinum league somehow miraculously materializes this year, I'll get assailed for that one too! Hell, I even got shit from you Greg along with Tom last year when it was thought that I was trying to start the only $1000 DC league you have several days prior to when it was posted when it wasn't even my fucking idea to do so!!!.

So what I'm trying to say is that I'm sick of it and I'm sick of hearing myself talk. I'm sure many others are sick of hearing me talk as well (someone feel free to put a poll up about this as well for the sake of shits and giggles around the corporate offices of the NFBC). I'm sick of being thrown under the bus, having words put in my mouth, being accused of being a malcontent, and most of all sick and tired of trying on behalf of the NFBC period. So for now, just take my money (for as much as I feel like giving this year), take my ideas with my compliments for what little they're worth, and I will go back to focusing on playing the game for as long it remains around to play or something better comes around which is sure to happen more sooner than later. So chalk another one up on a long list of us Greg who have just thrown their hands up in utter frustration and have joined the ranks of the apathetic. Now let the calls begin. And for the last time, I have no concern about anyone's opinions or viewpoints about my opinions or viewpoints, because that's all they are. I'm not currently running for NFBC mayor either, so I have no need to coddle favor or petition anyone for their influence or support.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'll go call Gekko for some rehab advice and maybe on how to start playing in 50 DC events instead.

[Potter]

Funniest. Post. Ever.

[BK METS]

Mike, I hear your frustration and not here to attack your ideas or you in any way. I mentioned it earlier in this thread. I thought it was a mistake to start a thread saying "Overall Main Event Grand Prize Increases to $200,000 in 2014", without a question mark. Obviously I went through the entire thread and read every post. But some who don't, might have gotten the impression that this was definitely happening in 2014. I think its a great idea and I am not speaking for Greg or playing sides. I just think the headline of the thread was misleading. I would be happy to speak personally and if you want me to call you later, I will.