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Josh Hamilton gone for two months

I don't think I've ever seen a week filled with so many injuries as this one and it's halfway over.

ALL-IN JD wrote:Josh Hamilton gone for two months

Is this a surprise?

What was the over/under? 10 games?

I'm surprised Brian Roberts has made it this long.

There should be a pool to see who spends more time on DL in a given season. Hamilton-Tulo-Roberts.

We asked our STATS Research team to look into the number of injuries to pitchers through the first 10 days of the season and compare them to the past five seasons. As expected, there have been more DL stints for pitchers this year than any other year since 2009. Here are the numbers:

Pitchers on the DL through first 10 days of season:
2009 - 54
2010 - 60
2011 - 67
2012 - 68
2013 - 71
2014 - 79

That's an increase of almost 50% in five seasons, which should be a concern to MLB. It's definitely a concern to fantasy owners.

Greg Ambrosius wrote:We asked our STATS Research team to look into the number of injuries to pitchers through the first 10 days of the season and compare them to the past five seasons. As expected, there have been more DL stints for pitchers this year than any other year since 2009. Here are the numbers:

Pitchers on the DL through first 10 days of season:
2009 - 54
2010 - 60
2011 - 67
2012 - 68
2013 - 71
2014 - 79

That's an increase of almost 50% in five seasons, which should be a concern to MLB. It's definitely a concern to fantasy owners.

Greg,

Last May there was some talk on the message boards about the number of players on the DL. A suggestion was made to have a DL List (1 or 2 players) in addition to our 7 man reserve. I posted some DL numbers and thought it might be better to have that discussion at the end of the season, but we never did.

These were the numbers I posted:

Approx number of Total Disabled List Days in MLB from 2002-2012 as accumulated by Fan Graphs

2002: 17,750
2003: 18,000
2004: 20,500
2005: 18,500
2006: 19,500
2007: 23,000
2008: 22,000
2009: 23,000
2010: 19,500
2011: 20,500
2012: 29,500

2013: ???????

I was wondering if you could get the good folks at Stats to provide data for 2013, if not for the entire 2002-13 period.

2012 was definitely an outlier in this set, I'm really curious as to 2013.

I know that early in the year fantasy owners are much more attuned to players going on the DL than they are later in July and August and I think that skews our thoughts some, but there was a spike in 2012. The big question....did the trend continue in 2013???

What I remember was a discussion we had on pitchers being brought up earlier and earlier. Some of us thought there was a danger in hurting arms, others pooh-poohed that notion. I wonder if those increased DL days are from pushing these guys into situations that they are just not ready for. One of the pregame talking heads before the Braves game was saying a pitcher would not hit his prime until 31...doesn't seem to be the case today. By 31, it seems the pitchers have had TJS, strained obliques, strained hamstrings, frayed rotator cuffs, jock itch, halitosis (cronic), steriod induced acne....

Part of the game now seemingly more than ever.

My take on pitching injuries, relative to TJ surgery specifically, is the proliferation of the changeup...go back and watch games from the 60's, 70's and even thru the mid 80's it was basically never thrown. I own the dvd's of all 7 games of the 75' world series, those guys threw nothing but different types of fastballs, curveballs and sliders(and the occasional Bill Lee eephus). Having gotten paid to pitch myself, the feeling you get when throwing a changeup is different than other pitches, akin to throwing a marble. It just doesn't feel right in your hand and you can feel it in your arm. I read where Matt Moore said recently he could feel his arm pain the most when throwing the changeup. That also answers the question of how all those guys back then(Seaver, Palmer, Gibson, etc) could throw 300+ innings per year with no problems. I don't have any scientific backing for my opinion, other than I played for money myself, know baseball very well(outside of fantasy ) and it makes sense. Tommy John surgery is here to stay and will continue to grow

I know it doesn't mean much, seeing my team in the top 10 overall after the first week, even with losing my 2nd closer (Parnell). But, then losing Hamilton. I have a feeling my team will free fall, very soon.

Cotton1 wrote:My take on pitching injuries, relative to TJ surgery specifically, is the proliferation of the changeup...go back and watch games from the 60's, 70's and even thru the mid 80's it was basically never thrown. I own the dvd's of all 7 games of the 75' world series, those guys threw nothing but different types of fastballs, curveballs and sliders(and the occasional Bill Lee eephus). Having gotten paid to pitch myself, the feeling you get when throwing a changeup is different than other pitches, akin to throwing a marble. It just doesn't feel right in your hand and you can feel it in your arm. I read where Matt Moore said recently he could feel his arm pain the most when throwing the changeup. That also answers the question of how all those guys back then(Seaver, Palmer, Gibson, etc) could throw 300+ innings per year with no problems. I don't have any scientific backing for my opinion, other than I played for money myself, know baseball very well(outside of fantasy ) and it makes sense. Tommy John surgery is here to stay and will continue to grow

I'm not saying you are wrong, because I think with pitchers and arm injuries anything is possible, but I have never heard the changeup considered the main culprit behind pitching injuries.

throw about 200 of them, tell me how your elbow feels

Cotton1 wrote:My take on pitching injuries, relative to TJ surgery specifically, is the proliferation of the changeup...go back and watch games from the 60's, 70's and even thru the mid 80's it was basically never thrown. I own the dvd's of all 7 games of the 75' world series, those guys threw nothing but different types of fastballs, curveballs and sliders(and the occasional Bill Lee eephus). Having gotten paid to pitch myself, the feeling you get when throwing a changeup is different than other pitches, akin to throwing a marble. It just doesn't feel right in your hand and you can feel it in your arm. I read where Matt Moore said recently he could feel his arm pain the most when throwing the changeup. That also answers the question of how all those guys back then(Seaver, Palmer, Gibson, etc) could throw 300+ innings per year with no problems. I don't have any scientific backing for my opinion, other than I played for money myself, know baseball very well(outside of fantasy ) and it makes sense. Tommy John surgery is here to stay and will continue to grow

If pitchers "feel" different throwing a changeup I would suggest they are not throwing it correctly - the motion, effort and everything else except the grip should be exactly the same as throwing a fastball. Most articles I have seen and discussion from front office personel, scouts and doctors has been that pitchers throwing curve balls and sliders incorrectly puts more strain on the elbow and surrounding ligaments.

Cotton1 wrote:throw about 200 of them, tell me how your elbow feels

If I threw 200 of anything you would have to scrape what was left of my elbow off the mound

The man who is doing all of these Tommy John surgeries weighs in on the arm injuries here in a great piece:

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/ ... -the-rise/

Navel Lint wrote:

Greg Ambrosius wrote:We asked our STATS Research team to look into the number of injuries to pitchers through the first 10 days of the season and compare them to the past five seasons. As expected, there have been more DL stints for pitchers this year than any other year since 2009. Here are the numbers:

Pitchers on the DL through first 10 days of season:
2009 - 54
2010 - 60
2011 - 67
2012 - 68
2013 - 71
2014 - 79

That's an increase of almost 50% in five seasons, which should be a concern to MLB. It's definitely a concern to fantasy owners.

Greg,

Last May there was some talk on the message boards about the number of players on the DL. A suggestion was made to have a DL List (1 or 2 players) in addition to our 7 man reserve. I posted some DL numbers and thought it might be better to have that discussion at the end of the season, but we never did.

These were the numbers I posted:

Approx number of Total Disabled List Days in MLB from 2002-2012 as accumulated by Fan Graphs

2002: 17,750
2003: 18,000
2004: 20,500
2005: 18,500
2006: 19,500
2007: 23,000
2008: 22,000
2009: 23,000
2010: 19,500
2011: 20,500
2012: 29,500

2013: ???????

I was wondering if you could get the good folks at Stats to provide data for 2013, if not for the entire 2002-13 period.

2012 was definitely an outlier in this set, I'm really curious as to 2013.

I know that early in the year fantasy owners are much more attuned to players going on the DL than they are later in July and August and I think that skews our thoughts some, but there was a spike in 2012. The big question....did the trend continue in 2013???

We do have this data Russell and it's different from Fangraphs, but at least it shows you 2013's numbers compared to 2012:

Regular Season Days on the Disabled List, MLB Since 2002

2002 24073
2003 22018
2004 24843
2005 23547
2006 22263
2007 26874
2008 28086
2009 25948
2010 23365
2011 24747
2012 29308
2013 28927

It wasn't as high as 2012, but certainly higher than 2009-2011. I'm not sure where Fangraphs got their data from 2002 and the following seasons, but ours shows less of a variance from 2002 to 2012 than theirs does.

Greg Ambrosius wrote:

Navel Lint wrote:

Greg Ambrosius wrote: I know that early in the year fantasy owners are much more attuned to players going on the DL than they are later in July and August and I think that skews our thoughts some, but there was a spike in 2012. The big question....did the trend continue in 2013???

We do have this data Russell and it's different from Fangraphs, but at least it shows you 2013's numbers compared to 2012:

Regular Season Days on the Disabled List, MLB Since 2002

2002 24073
2003 22018
2004 24843
2005 23547
2006 22263
2007 26874
2008 28086
2009 25948
2010 23365
2011 24747
2012 29308
2013 28927

It wasn't as high as 2012, but certainly higher than 2009-2011. I'm not sure where Fangraphs got their data from 2002 and the following seasons, but ours shows less of a variance from 2002 to 2012 than theirs does.

Thanks Greg.

Obviously it's too late to talk about changes for 2014, not that I'm in the camp for creating a DL List separate from our normal 7 man reserve list anyway; but these hard numbers are good to look at and I will bring this thread up again in October and we can look at the final 2014 numbers.

I'm not in that camp either, Russell. Tough decisions have to be made here with those 7-man reserve rosters and sometimes owners have to cut bait on too many injured players. It's tough, but nobody ever said the NFBC was easy.

Greg Ambrosius wrote:I'm not in that camp either, Russell. Tough decisions have to be made here with those 7-man reserve rosters and sometimes owners have to cut bait on too many injured players. It's tough, but nobody ever said the NFBC was easy.

My thoughts exactly.

I currently have 5 little red DL on my ME roster. It does make for tough decisions, but I would have it no other way

My take on pitching injuries, relative to TJ surgery specifically, is the proliferation of the changeup...go back and watch games from the 60's, 70's and even thru the mid 80's it was basically never thrown. I own the dvd's of all 7 games of the 75' world series, those guys threw nothing but different types of fastballs, curveballs and sliders(and the occasional Bill Lee eephus). Having gotten paid to pitch myself, the feeling you get when throwing a changeup is different than other pitches, akin to throwing a marble. It just doesn't feel right in your hand and you can feel it in your arm. I read where Matt Moore said recently he could feel his arm pain the most when throwing the changeup. That also answers the question of how all those guys back then(Seaver, Palmer, Gibson, etc) could throw 300+ innings per year with no problems. I don't have any scientific backing for my opinion, other than I played for money myself, know baseball very well(outside of fantasy ) and it makes sense. Tommy John surgery is here to stay and will continue to grow

Yeah, that's what teams used to say about the split finger fastball wrecking arms -- something in the grip causing stress to the ligaments in the elbow. Maybe something similar today with the changeup. Makes sense.

Bert Blyleven was just asked the question on the Twins broadcast and he thinks that too many pitchers today are lifting heavy weights and causing the problem because throwing arms need elasticity which lifting heavy weights with arms would prevent.

Next up Avisail Garcia, torn labrum! WOW!

Cotton1 wrote:throw about 200 of them, tell me how your elbow feels

I was never paid to play baseball mainly because my fastball WAS a changeup...

ALL-IN JD wrote:Next up Avisail Garcia, torn labrum! WOW!

It seems like every injury is season-ending. Did you see his injury yesterday? He dove for a ball in right field and came up holding his shoulder. Okay, you thought, maybe a separated shoulder and he's out 6-8 weeks. But noooooooo, it's a torn labrum and he's out for the season. Just amazing.

I really liked Garcia in Chicago and he just had a four-hit night before getting hurt. Really a bad blow here.

ALL-IN JD wrote:Next up Avisail Garcia, torn labrum! WOW!

Sickening, 22 years old, no injury history, a major weapon in the middle rounds of every meaningful league for me. I can accept the pitcher injuries and those to the old, hobbled, and prone, but this one stings. Stock market's melting down too, nice day all the way around.

KJ Duke wrote:

ALL-IN JD wrote:Next up Avisail Garcia, torn labrum! WOW!

Sickening, 22 years old, no injury history, a major weapon in the middle rounds of every meaningful league for me. I can accept the pitcher injuries and those to the old, hobbled, and prone, but this one stings. Stock market's melting down too, nice day all the way around.

I feel your pain KJ. Have him on some important teams as well. Hard to believe we are only 2 weeks in. To say this is going to be a war of attrition would be an understatement!

After feeling sorry for myself as a partial White Sox season ticket holder, I thought of you next, KJ. I knew you were a fan this year and saw you were taking him in alot of drafts. Ouch