NFBC Hall Of Fame To Expand In 2015

[Greg Ambrosius]

We've inducted only three participants to the Hall of Fame during our first three years of the National Fantasy Baseball Championship and it's time to add more deserving members to our HOF. The three Hall of Fame members include Shawn Childs, Steve Jupinka and Lindy Hinkelman, all deserving candidates.

Tom and I are going through the archives now and have our sights on a couple of other worthy participants who could make it into our NFBC Hall of Fame this year. We're looking for your input on this matter as well because nobody knows the level of competition like the players themselves. Feel free to post your thoughts here or if you want to do so privately feel free to email me at [email protected]. We know there are several deserving candidates who should be honored here, so help us out and we'll look at all of the past results. Let's add to the Hall of Fame this year and bestow some glory on these folks who have already taken most of the prize money!!

Let's hear from ya.

[Quahogs]

The quality of player here is beyond reason. This year I got my ass handed to me numerous times and would love to find a contest where I don't cringe when I see the entrant lineup. But there is nothing out there.

I don't really know what kind of standards Greg is looking for. I think the scope has to go beyond the ME. In my eyes there is LINDY and then the rest of us all have warts. There are many excellent players who have played many years across many events. I can only go by who I've played with for nearly a decade so I know I'm excluding other future HOFs. I throw Bob Particelli and David DiDonato out there. David's body of work is as consistent as anyone's out there. I don't think he's ever had a lo$ing year. He's had plenty of ME success and High Stake success too. Bob's skill as a High Stakes player is phenomenal. The bigger the prize the bigger his play becomes. If the ME League prize was north of 25K he'd have a couple of those too But those seem to be sacrificed for all of those 75k payouts. Not a bad tradeoff.

Honorable Mention: Jeff Dobies. I've seen 1st hand at what an awesome auction player he is. 2 Overall titles ? An Ultimate Auction win and an Ultimate Auction 2nd place. I know Jeff plays in ALOT of leagues so I don't know where he stands elsewhere but get him in that Auction Wing ! lol

Many deserve mention. I apologize to all the talented players I haven't touched upon.

[BK METS]

I would like to nominate 2 worthy players to the NFBC hall of fame.

Jeff Dobies - This guy is a beast in all formats. Obviously his denomination in the auction format is well documented. But I do believe he finished runner up in the main event last year and is the one guy that I fear (along with Steve of course) when I see him in one of my leagues. I didn't review overall prize money but he has to be up there.

KJ Duke - I cannot see why he isn't a lock. If there is a wing of the hall of fame for being an innovator and game creation, he is the man. I am pretty sure he had a hand in creating many of the games we enjoy playing today including the DC/slow drafts and the cutline in football (soon to be in baseball?) Along with my favorite format, the MLBC salary league. And, oh by the way, he has won a bunch of money over the past 10 years.

I bring these two up because these are guys I have seen first hand. I am sure there are many other worthy nominees.

[Red Sox Nation-]

Easy one. Agree with Steve here on David DiDonato. I actually assumed he was already in. #2 in lifetime earnings coming into 2014 and a Main Event Overall title on the resume.

[poopytooth]

DiDonato.

[Baseball Furies]

DiDonato no question. KJ would get my vote as well. Put me in the broadcaster's wing.
This being said, I think someone should start the thread for the ceremonial NFBC Hall of Shame. Let's see, who to begin with...

[Glenneration X]

I can only go by who I've played with for nearly a decade so I know I'm excluding other future HOFs.

I haven't played this event nearly as long (nor am I nearly as old ) as Mr. Juprinka, so I don't have nearly the insights into the full history of this event as he does.

However one thing's for sure, it's about time we looked into adding some more very worthy candidates to the NFBC HOF. Jeez Greg, after all even Mt. Rushmore has more included!! We also need more realistic and obtainable standards. If the standards are going to be limited to those set by Lindy, Juprinka, & Childs, we may as well close this thing now.

That said, I agree with several of those thrown out by others.

DiDonato seems like a no-brainer. I mean, what more does a guy have to do? He should have been inducted already.

I'd also like to second the nomination for my good friend and neighbor, Mr. Dobies. A pair of overall Auction championships, an Ultimate Auction win, a second overall in the Main and I believe another very high Main event finish previously. Jeff might be the best 2-way Auction/Draft player around. Another no-brainer in my mind.

I think all Main Event Overall winners should be looked at closely. Although I don't believe an Overall win should merit immediate induction on its own, winning the flagship of this contest should certainly merit consideration. If their histories show other significant achievements, then they should probably be part of the final discussion. Dave Potts comes to mind here, among others.

Particelli, RT, Nolan/Stephenson, Gekko, are just a few among others that I've consistently seen achieve in my time with this contest and in reviewing this contest's past and should be in the final group considered.

Last but certainly not least, Doughy and KJ should be no-brainer HOF inductees for this contest. Just looking at their achievements playing this contest, they already should be considered. Add in their "off the field" contributions and they go in the no-brainer category in my mind. Hey, Jeter's considered a lock first ballot HOF and it's as much for his intangibles as his play.

I'm happy to see that we're going to be adding some more worthy players to the Hall this year. It's time and will only add to making the HOF something that we can all admire and strive to be a part of one day.

PS.... I also agree that Mikey should be the one and only member ever inducted into the NFBC Hall of Shame. The biggest no-brainer of them all.

[Greg Ambrosius]

I can only go by who I've played with for nearly a decade so I know I'm excluding other future HOFs.

I haven't played this event nearly as long (nor am I nearly as old ) as Mr. Juprinka, so I don't have nearly the insights into the full history of this event as he does.

However one thing's for sure, it's about time we looked into adding some more very worthy candidates to the NFBC HOF. Jeez Greg, after all even Mt. Rushmore has more included!!

Good point Glenn, but to be fair we originally said that we would wait 10 years before starting the NFBC Hall of Fame (kind of like MLB does), but when Childs and Jupinka dominated the first eight years we jumped the gun and started the HOF inductions early. Then after Lindy won his second overall title, it was time for another worthy HOF inductee. Our mistake was not adding another player or two last year when we easily could have. We'll make up for last year with some new additions.

The criteria for making the NFBC HOF might not be Jupinka-high, but it has to be high. HOF inductees have to be consistent over time and it never hurts to have a national title under your belt. That shows dominance for sure. Those who can win in different formats also deserve consideration. I think we can see the best of the best and we look forward to honoring a few more this year in the NFBC HOF.

[Fourslot40]

I understand that these sort of discussions can become subjective, but the "no doubt" submissions of some of the aforementioned players I have to disagree with. I respect KJ and Kenyon like anyone, but this should be performance based. If we were to include off-the-field performance, we might as well include Deadheadz and Mike, which don't get me wrong I love the banter, but let's make sure we don't disregard the actual accomplishments of others. Also, there are many NFBC'ers who have the money to play multiple contests to increase their winning percentage. As a six year vet and married man of two older kids (in college) I am envious of those that can throw big money at contests. I would love to see how the average performance of those considered have performed over all of their contests. I can tell you that a few of these recommendations have finished behind me in my leagues. Some several times. As far as several nominated, no way, should KJ, Kenyon or Dobies be considered for the Hall of Fame. It's a friend move, amongst "I love you man" reasons. We are a close kint group and we will certainly wish success upon others. Trust me, love this organization and everyone I meet. I love the contributions of those considered. This is an honest opinion and if you do not like it, tough. But, let the numbers speak for themselves. How can anyone consider players who are drastically lower in earnings than others? I recommend Didonato, Rick Thomas and Ken Magner. If I missed anyone in between I apologize.

John

[DOUGHBOYS]

I understand that these sort of discussions can become subjective, but the "no doubt" submissions of some of the aforementioned players I have to disagree with. I respect KJ and Kenyon like anyone, but this should be performance based. If we were to include off-the-field performance, we might as well include Deadheadz and Mike, which don't get me wrong I love the banter, but let's make sure we don't disregard the actual accomplishments of others. Also, there are many NFBC'ers who have the money to play multiple contests to increase their winning percentage. As a six year vet and married man of two older kids (in college) I am envious of those that can throw big money at contests. I would love to see how the average performance of those considered have performed over all of their contests. I can tell you that a few of these recommendations have finished behind me in my leagues. Some several times. As far as several nominated, no way, should KJ, Kenyon or Dobies be considered for the Hall of Fame. It's a friend move, amongst "I love you man" reasons. We are a close kint group and we will certainly wish success upon others. Trust me, love this organization and everyone I meet. I love the contributions of those considered. This is an honest opinion and if you do not like it, tough. But, let the numbers speak for themselves. How can anyone consider players who are drastically lower in earnings than others? I recommend Didonato, Rick Thomas and Ken Magner. If I missed anyone in between I apologize.

John

First, I agree that Kenyon sucks. Screw him.
You are wrong about the rest of your post. This has nothing to do with "Love you, Man" or KJ or Jeff being in a club.
That is stupid. Are you going to penalize these two for making posts on the Boards?
We can't compare these two with Mikey or DeadHeadz (Man! Is Mike going to be pissed I used those two names together!)
KJ and Jeff have track records that others, including the two mentioned, would kill to have.

Dobies and KJ are winners. They've won several BIG TIME leagues and I believe that both have finished second Overall in the Main Event.
Dobies is considered one of the best auction players on the planet. KJ also excels and wins leagues in all formats.
Their contributions are on the same level as the three you have mentioned. Their NUMBERS speak for themselves as well.
These two are no-brainers as candidates for the Hall of Fame

[DOUGHBOYS]

I'd also like to see Andy Nolan and Jon Statsmuller get more recognition.
They are quietly top-notch.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I did not say your post was stupid. I said that your implication of KJ or Jeff being considered because they are in a "Love you man" category as stupid.
And it is.
You can have your opinion, just like I can have my opinion that you are completely wrong.
These two are two of the best in the NFBC. Loook at the lifetime standings. Look at Overall contests. Look at auctions.
If wanting to limit it to money won, then only those putting the most money IN would have your nominations.
You are being short sighted in only thinking about Overall Winnings. Overall winnings does not include the money lost in entering Big Money leagues. Only money won.
A better stat would be percentage won from each league participated.
You are underscoring Jeff's and KJ's achievemnts and you're DARNED RIGHT I DISAGREE WITH YOU!

[Walla Walla]

Gekko for the Hall of Fame. I have no vote for the HOF. But if I did Mark would get it. Not knocking any others but Mark has been there from the beginning. His play has been great. His posts on the board almost as good as mine. Sometimes it's not just about stats of a sport. It's helping grow that sport. I think Mark did that.

[KJ Duke]

I understand that these sort of discussions can become subjective, but the "no doubt" submissions of some of the aforementioned players I have to disagree with. I respect KJ and Kenyon like anyone, but this should be performance based. If we were to include off-the-field performance, we might as well include Deadheadz and Mike, which don't get me wrong I love the banter, but let's make sure we don't disregard the actual accomplishments of others. Also, there are many NFBC'ers who have the money to play multiple contests to increase their winning percentage. As a six year vet and married man of two older kids (in college) I am envious of those that can throw big money at contests. I would love to see how the average performance of those considered have performed over all of their contests. I can tell you that a few of these recommendations have finished behind me in my leagues. Some several times. As far as several nominated, no way, should KJ, Kenyon or Dobies be considered for the Hall of Fame. It's a friend move, amongst "I love you man" reasons. We are a close kint group and we will certainly wish success upon others. Trust me, love this organization and everyone I meet. I love the contributions of those considered. This is an honest opinion and if you do not like it, tough. But, let the numbers speak for themselves. How can anyone consider players who are drastically lower in earnings than others? I recommend Didonato, Rick Thomas and Ken Magner. If I missed anyone in between I apologize.

John

John, I am fairly certain that no one you bring up wants to get in on anything but merit, so I'm full agreement with you there. However, I find the rest of your post to be out of place for a few reasons.

1) As far as I know, I've evaluated NFBC performance data more than anyone other than Greg. I have all Main Event data aggregated for the history of the contest. I can't speak for all of the other NFBC contests, only Greg has that data as far as I know, but I can speak to what I know ... and that is, the three guys that are you CERTAIN should not be considered among the best in the game are all among the Top 30 in Main Event history based on an objective, straightforward statistical measure. That isn't all of the data to be considered, but it's a critical piece as the flagship of this contest. So, unless you have some data that no one else has, it's awfully presumptuous to suggest who shouldn't be considered.

2) Supposing to evaluate skill based on dollar winnings is oblivious to all sorts of statistical shortfalls ... small sample size, volume versus per incident data, luck vs skill, etc. I would not expect that from a high stakes player that is used to evaluating the underlying statistics of players. Evaluating fantasy player performance based on dollar winnings is about as intellectually appealing and statistically significant as comparing starting pitchers based on their number of Wins ... there's simply much better data than that available.

3) You are contradicting your own ideas all within the same paragraph. First you deride those who win money by "throwing lots of money" at high-priced contests, and then you assess who is best based on dollar winnings which of course will have a meaningful statistical correlation to money spent. Then you go on to suggest that the #2, #12 and #13 players deserve inclusion over anyone with less in money winnings, but say nothing of all players ranked #4 thru #9 plus #11. If #23 in money winnings isn't good enough, then why is #13 good enough but you say nothing of #4 ?

I think everyone probably has their own idea about what merits inclusion, much like they do for Cooperstown. So I don't want to criticize someone that thinks Mr. X should get in for "this" reason, that's one thing ... but to go out of your way to say emphatically who "shouldn't" get in ▬ compounded by the fact that you have no reliable data to support your position and in fact the data that is available would argue to the contrary ▬ I just don't get your point of view.

▬ ▬ ▬

And now, swinging back to a positive vibe. First, I believe that everyone nominated in this thread (with the exception of deadhedz ) has a good enough record in the Main Event to be in the discussion, and that is a good starting point for evaluating worthy players against all of the other data and insights that Greg has.

I will give my 2 cents/nomination based on what I know best ... If I am looking ONLY at Main Event data, the top of the list for me right now is Andy Nolan. As I noted in another thread, Andy is one of only four players in history to out-perform the average team with at least one Main Event team in 11 consecutive seasons. I think he's maintained a top 3 lifetime rank every season since I started my rankings back in 2009. That is not buying a Win or lucking into a Win, that is demonstrated skill and lifetime achievement in the NFBC. He's been nominated by several others and should be shoo-in.

Secondly, Dan Kenyon should be in the discussion every year because he should've been inducted already as a guy who's been hanging around the top 10 for years and because of the depth of knowledge he exhibits about everything baseball and fantasy. We all know that luck is a portion of this game, so going "purely" on performance is arguably short-sighted unless you're into rewarding luck. Evaluate the skill portion, and try to neutralize the luck portion ... isn't that we all are trying to do? Consistently being near the top of a contest shows skill, and while you can't really quantify it, demonstrating depth of knowledge also demonstrates skill as a fantasy player. Dan has done both for as many years as anyone in this contest, and is one of the best if not the best in the latter category. In fact, I'd put Dan and Shawn Childs in a category of their own in that regard, and if neither of them ever participated in another contest I'd be very content with both of them in the HOF; and that is on merit not friendship. Dan's too cheap to ever become a money board leader, but that shouldn't keep him out!

[Fourslot40]

I agree with your post KJ. Well said. I did contradict myself somewhat. It would be interesting to see how the top money winners perform in all contests won and lost. That would separate the field. I'm not going to back down about it becoming a popularity contest on the boards, but I will say that I am not discrediting yourself and others mentioned. I am merely saying that before everyone starts using the word "guarantee", that all of the information come out for those others players that deserve mention.

With that said, I should have chosen my words better. The aforementioned accomplishments are legit and deserve recognition. I think any player knows it's a tough road when these names are in the league. I only have access to what everyone else does so there may be information that I am unaware of. Even so, I'm only another fellow player throwing out two cents. Trust me, I have nothing but respect for the game and it's players. Shoot, being mentioned in a one-liner during fantasy camp was cool. I'm certain that everyone mentioned will get in at some point.

[Glenneration X]

Fourslot, I think where you went wrong is in discrediting the opinions of others as "Love you Man" nominations just because you disagreed with them. I know in my case, "Love you Man" had nothing to do with who I threw out there. In fact, I threw out several that I barely know, let alone love.

If my nominations were to be strictly for those I "loved" who played the NFBC, it would have been a one-man list for my Dad.

We all have our opinions, they are all based on what we value personally, and your criteria for a nomination is no more important nor legitimate than mine or anyone else who takes the time to think this through and participate in the process.

I stand by every one of my nominations as more than worthy.

PS... just because you finished ahead of some of the candidates mentioned in a random league or two, far from disqualifies them from consideration. I've finished ahead of Juprinka, Childs, and Lindy in random leagues over the years, should we strip their inductions? I mean, I think even MtM finished ahead of Juprinka once or twice. (Now that I think of it, that might actually be cause for a reconsideration of Juprinka's inclusion. )

[Greg Ambrosius]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys and keep 'em coming. Nobody is getting in on "Love You Mans" or for being good posters; it all comes down to results on the diamond. We have historical data to prove who deserves to get in and yes winning multiple league titles and even a national title helps to get into the Hall. There are some worthy candidates who will make our decision easy and we think you will agree. Thanks again for all your suggestions.

[Quahogs]

I mean, I think even MtM finished ahead of Juprinka once or twice. (Now that I think of it, that might actually be cause for a reconsideration of Juprinka's inclusion. )

"Roids are out, shifts are in. Until you can keep up Jupinka OUT YOU GO !"

[Fourslot40]

I hear you Glenn. Stating that I may have finished ahead of the nominated players was a poor example of me trying to point out those who play many teams each year and the losses are not mentioned in the same context as the wins. We the players don't have access to those numbers. Like daily leagues. A guy won 500k, but they don't tell you about the 400k it took to get there. It wasn't intended to be a sarcastic or comparative knock to anyone already in or not. I look forward to seeing the nominations and shaking the hands of those that get in. Again, I apologize for creating anxiety on the subject. I think my phone is ringing.

Peace and love.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I hear you Glenn. Stating that I may have finished ahead of the nominated players was a poor example of me trying to point out those who play many teams each year and the losses are not mentioned in the same context as the wins. We the players don't have access to those numbers. Like daily leagues. A guy won 500k, but they don't tell you about the 400k it took to get there. It wasn't intended to be a sarcastic or comparative knock to anyone already in or not. I look forward to seeing the nominations and shaking the hands of those that get in. Again, I apologize for creating anxiety on the subject. I think my phone is ringing.

Peace and love.

I owe you an apology, John.
Your post, unknowingly for you, hit a sore spot for me. I am coming off my worst year ever in the NFBC.
The truth for me is that I would NOT want to be considered this year. Maybe, if folks think I'm deserved after a good year it'll happen.
But my point is, that I don't want my name to be lumped with Jeff or KJ. It lessens them in their individual achievements after the bad year I had.
As I said before, these two have done more than enough to merit consideration for the Hall of Fame.
I got angry at your post for possibly diminishing these accomplishments and placing them as 'off-field merits' or as 'Love ya Man's'.
My frustration was that KJ and Jeff would suffer in being lumped with me.
Thanks KJ, Glenn, and others who have mentioned me, but I want to go in riding high, not after getting my ass handed to me.
And again, John, apologies.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I hear you Glenn. Stating that I may have finished ahead of the nominated players was a poor example of me trying to point out those who play many teams each year and the losses are not mentioned in the same context as the wins. We the players don't have access to those numbers. Like daily leagues. A guy won 500k, but they don't tell you about the 400k it took to get there. It wasn't intended to be a sarcastic or comparative knock to anyone already in or not. I look forward to seeing the nominations and shaking the hands of those that get in. Again, I apologize for creating anxiety on the subject. I think my phone is ringing.

Peace and love.

I owe you an apology, John.
Your post, unknowingly for you, hit a sore spot for me. I am coming off my worst year ever in the NFBC.
The truth for me is that I would NOT want to be considered this year. Maybe, if folks think I'm deserved after a good year it'll happen.
But my point is, that I don't want my name to be lumped with Jeff or KJ. It lessens them in their individual achievements after the bad year I had.
As I said before, these two have done more than enough to merit consideration for the Hall of Fame.
I got angry at your post for possibly diminishing these accomplishments and placing them as 'off-field merits' or as 'Love ya Man's'.
My frustration was that KJ and Jeff would suffer in being lumped with me.
Thanks KJ, Glenn, and others who have mentioned me, but I want to go in riding high, not after getting my ass handed to me.
And again, John, apologies.

The good thing is that I almost have enough fodder for a future 'Fantasy Camp'.
Thanks John!

[Fourslot40]

I hear you Glenn. Stating that I may have finished ahead of the nominated players was a poor example of me trying to point out those who play many teams each year and the losses are not mentioned in the same context as the wins. We the players don't have access to those numbers. Like daily leagues. A guy won 500k, but they don't tell you about the 400k it took to get there. It wasn't intended to be a sarcastic or comparative knock to anyone already in or not. I look forward to seeing the nominations and shaking the hands of those that get in. Again, I apologize for creating anxiety on the subject. I think my phone is ringing.

Peace and love.

I owe you an apology, John.
Your post, unknowingly for you, hit a sore spot for me. I am coming off my worst year ever in the NFBC.
The truth for me is that I would NOT want to be considered this year. Maybe, if folks think I'm deserved after a good year it'll happen.
But my point is, that I don't want my name to be lumped with Jeff or KJ. It lessens them in their individual achievements after the bad year I had.
As I said before, these two have done more than enough to merit consideration for the Hall of Fame.
I got angry at your post for possibly diminishing these accomplishments and placing them as 'off-field merits' or as 'Love ya Man's'.
My frustration was that KJ and Jeff would suffer in being lumped with me.
Thanks KJ, Glenn, and others who have mentioned me, but I want to go in riding high, not after getting my ass handed to me.
And again, John, apologies.

I apologize that I put that out there Dan. There's no denying your accomplishments. Heck, who hasn't had a bad year. Your a class act. I don't think there's any one player out there that players respect more. I apologize to KJ and Jeff. This should be a positive forum where we celebrate others. There's no doubt that all three of you will be in the HOF at some point. I shouldn't have put you in that position. Do me a favor and slam me on the next fantasy camp.

[Edwards Kings]

I mean, I think even MtM finished ahead of Juprinka once or twice. (Now that I think of it, that might actually be cause for a reconsideration of Juprinka's inclusion. )

"Roids are out, shifts are in. Until you can keep up Jupinka OUT YOU GO !"

NFBC MULTIPLE MAIN EVENT LEAGUE CHAMPIONS

SIX MAIN EVENT LEAGUE TITLES:
Stephen Jupinka 2004, 2005, 2008, 2010, 2012, 2013

Yeah...right....

[Edwards Kings]

Here is your list:

FOUR MAIN EVENT LEAGUE TITLES:

KJ Duke 2007, 2011, 2013, 2014
Bob Mazur 2007, 2008, 2010, 2014
Mark Srebro 2007, 2008, 2010, 2010

I agree with most everything written, but really need to consider Bob Mazur. Top, top notch competitor and has shown obvious success over many years.

[BK METS]

I brought up KJ Duke and Jeff Dobies, not to diminish the accomplishments of what I consider this year's no brainer guy, David DiDonato, but to bring up the 2 names that I have competed with and against, over the years, that I consider top notch.

In my opinion, simply entering the top money winners in the HOF would be the easy way to go, but I think we need to consider a few more qualifications including:

Recent success
Rate of success
Success with many different formats and games

I believe KJ has 4 main event titles and a runner up overall main event championship on his resume, along with his brilliance in renovation and game formation in baseball and football.

Jeff Dobies has won 2 overall Auction Championships, a runner up in the overall main event last year, along with many other league titles.

I have much respect for all of the NFBC veterans. I have only been around for 5 years. I don't know everyone. I am not putting up names, just because they are my friends, but because they are winners. Consistent ones at that.

For whatever its worth, this is my opinion and didn't mean to diminish anyone else's accomplishments.