Many have asked, so here it is…….

[Glenneration X]

Another team in the last week benches a 2 home start Collemnter. He was one of the hottest pitchers going in September. He was one point ahead of the eventual winner in Wins and could catch him in K's. Multiple players could have taken his spot, even relievers (papelbon) as he had no upside in saves. This guy had also been in the lineups previous weeks.

Jeez, I come home from a holiday weekend away with my family to this crap once again.

Hey Joe, I understand it might not play well with keeping your witch hunt going, but can we not change history just to make your story better. I didn't "bench" Collmenter that last week as you very well know, I just didn't add him to my starting lineup. So how about we keep to the facts.

That said, here are the facts.....

Even though I thought it a little inappropriate for you and Chad to question my lineup decisions, out of respect for each of you I spent two days responding to both of your private emails sent when the decisions were first made so that you could understand the thinking behind my lineup decisions. At that point, it should have been done and over with and both of you had pretty much expressed as much in our correspondence. In fact, each of you even apologized. Obviously, you've had second thoughts and have decided to take this to a public forum.... twice.

And even though it's complete BS that you think you have any right to put me or my decisions on trial here, I will explain them once more and only once more.

I had 18 NFBC teams this past season. Way too many. Still, of those 18 NFBC teams, 9 of them were in contention to cash over those last few weeks. Unfortunately, I also have way too many fantasy football teams. With a career and a family and obviously no ability to limit the time necessary for each of them, once fantasy football starts the amount of time I can dedicate to fantasy baseball must be reduced in order to fit both hobbies. That time obviously couldn't come from my teams still fighting for a cash spot and therefore had to come from my teams that were hopelessly out of it, such as the Platinum.

Still, I tried to provide due diligence in setting lineups. I did not completely ignore these leagues. I examined lineups and set them. However, I did limit my moves to replacing players that were injured, benched, or lost the roles for which they were originally started as long as I had a valid replacement already on my roster.

The move Chad and Joe questioned that last Monday of the season was that I did not replace Papelbon with Collmenter as they felt that would be my "optimal" lineup. That certainly might have been my optimal lineup.... for them. However, and as I already explained to them then, that would have left 9 starting pitchers in my lineup and no closers.

What would have been an even more "optimal" lineup and certainly more in line with the "standard" NFBC lineup is if I replaced one of the starters in my lineup with Sean Doolittle (who I also left on my bench), to get a 7/2 ratio between starters & closers. The Doolittle "benching" however was never questioned. Why? I can only assume because Joe and Chad were only concerned with my wins and K's since they were hoping I could catch the eventual winner there.

The fact is I did momentarily consider starting both Collmenter AND Doolittle. However, if placing both in the lineup, the amount of total starts in my lineup would have remained unchanged for the week. And if I did add both of them, the question then becomes which of the starters already in the lineup would I have removed. Do I now need to check the recent starts, the matchups, the ballparks, the potential for each starter to be shut down early or with reduced innings, the potential WHIP & ERA impact each start could have, etc. etc. for a fantasy team that is hopelessly out of it. Papelbon on the other hand was never a serious consideration to be removed as my only active closer. Not that WHIP & ERA or saves concerned Joe and Chad at all, just wins & K's as that was the only places my decisions could help them.

So I decided to stand pat. And this was in line with my previously mentioned thinking that for dead teams I would only replace players that were injured, benched, or lost the roles for which they were originally started. I did not want dead spots to impact the standings, but I did not want random moves (such as starting Collmenter or Doolittle) to impact them as well. The standings meant nothing to me, but impacting them randomly still did.

And that's that. Right, wrong, or indifferent, that was the basis of my lineup decision in question. Bottom line, there was no collusion, there was no sabotage, and nothing else at all should ever be questioned.

This thread and the one Greg previously deleted are nothing more than paranoia, insulting, and completely inappropriate. Everyone in this league may now be diminished because of it, from those accused, to the league winner not given his rightful due, to the contest that put on this once prestigious league, but mostly in my mind.... the accusers.

Great champions show not only how to win, but how to lose.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

I will add this: it appears the reason you fell from 2nd to 4th was the direct result of DiDonato passing you in both HRs and RBIs. Looks like you left a couple of HRs on the bench that final week.

Instead of pointing the finger at your fellow owners, why not blame yourselves for losing $60,000

I can honestly speak for myself, and Joe knows this. We could have won the league by a point or missed cashing by a point. Never again for me unless we put the stats into the main event standings. Then nothing anyone does matters. We can play for 200k if we do it that way. So while it may appear that is the case, it isn't, at least on my end. Half of 25k is nothing compared to some of the things I have gone through. How it happened mattered more to me.

And yes you are right, we mangled all kinds of things all year with lineups. At one point we had 19 viable options for each hitting period. I screwed it up nearly every time. If I execute better, we probably win the whole thing. I didn't though.

And as for your explanation, while I think it is far fetched, I would like to apologize. I wish you had laid it out there right away. You had many chances to and the fact you didn't and opted to taking a bit of a mocking attitude, it did nothing to make me think you had a proper agenda. But I can accept your logic as just another bad break we caught along the way. Had you actually had scheduled pitchers in the lineup, it would have made much more sense. But taking Holland and Kimbrel out while in a save race and ratio race for two non scheduled pitchers, it was hard to understand. But you laid it out there and I will accept it. Hopefully you will accept my apology.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Another team in the last week benches a 2 home start Collemnter. He was one of the hottest pitchers going in September. He was one point ahead of the eventual winner in Wins and could catch him in K's. Multiple players could have taken his spot, even relievers (papelbon) as he had no upside in saves. This guy had also been in the lineups previous weeks.

Jeez, I come home from a holiday weekend away with my family to this crap once again.

Hey Joe, I understand it might not play well with keeping your witch hunt going, but can we not change history just to make your story better. I didn't "bench" Collmenter that last week as you very well know, I just didn't add him to my starting lineup. So how about we keep to the facts.

That said, here are the facts.....

Even though I thought it a little inappropriate for you and Chad to question my lineup decisions, out of respect for each of you I spent two days responding to both of your private emails sent when the decisions were first made so that you could understand the thinking behind my lineup decisions. At that point, it should have been done and over with and both of you had pretty much expressed as much in our correspondence. In fact, each of you even apologized. Obviously, you've had second thoughts and have decided to take this to a public forum.... twice.

And even though it's complete BS that you think you have any right to put me or my decisions on trial here, I will explain them once more and only once more.

I had 18 NFBC teams this past season. Way too many. Still, of those 18 NFBC teams, 9 of them were in contention to cash over those last few weeks. Unfortunately, I also have way too many fantasy football teams. With a career and a family and obviously no ability to limit the time necessary for each of them, once fantasy football starts the amount of time I can dedicate to fantasy baseball must be reduced in order to fit both hobbies. That time obviously couldn't come from my teams still fighting for a cash spot and therefore had to come from my teams that were hopelessly out of it, such as the Platinum.

Still, I tried to provide due diligence in setting lineups. I did not completely ignore these leagues. I examined lineups and set them. However, I did limit my moves to replacing players that were injured, benched, or lost the roles for which they were originally started as long as I had a valid replacement already on my roster.

The move Chad and Joe questioned that last Monday of the season was that I did not replace Papelbon with Collmenter as they felt that would be my "optimal" lineup. That certainly might have been my optimal lineup.... for them. However, and as I already explained to them then, that would have left 9 starting pitchers in my lineup and no closers.

What would have been an even more "optimal" lineup and certainly more in line with the "standard" NFBC lineup is if I replaced one of the starters in my lineup with Sean Doolittle (who I also left on my bench), to get a 7/2 ratio between starters & closers. The Doolittle "benching" however was never questioned. Why? I can only assume because Joe and Chad were only concerned with my wins and K's since they were hoping I could catch the eventual winner there.

The fact is I did momentarily consider starting both Collmenter AND Doolittle. However, if placing both in the lineup, the amount of total starts in my lineup would have remained unchanged for the week. And if I did add both of them, the question then becomes which of the starters already in the lineup would I have removed. Do I now need to check the recent starts, the matchups, the ballparks, the potential for each starter to be shut down early or with reduced innings, the potential WHIP & ERA impact each start could have, etc. etc. for a fantasy team that is hopelessly out of it. Papelbon on the other hand was never a serious consideration to be removed as my only active closer. Not that WHIP & ERA or saves concerned Joe and Chad at all, just wins & K's as that was the only places my decisions could help them.

So I decided to stand pat. And this was in line with my previously mentioned thinking that for dead teams I would only replace players that were injured, benched, or lost the roles for which they were originally started. I did not want dead spots to impact the standings, but I did not want random moves (such as starting Collmenter or Doolittle) to impact them as well. The standings meant nothing to me, but impacting them randomly still did.

And that's that. Right, wrong, or indifferent, that was the basis of my lineup decision in question. Bottom line, there was no collusion, there was no sabotage, and nothing else at all should ever be questioned.

This thread and the one Greg previously deleted are nothing more than paranoia, insulting, and completely inappropriate. Everyone in this league may now be diminished because of it, from those accused, to the league winner not given his rightful due, to the contest that put on this once prestigious league, but mostly in my mind.... the accusers.

Great champions show not only how to win, but how to lose.

I am going to address some of this on a point by point basis.

1. The end, great champions show not only how to win, but how to lose. This had nothing to do with the end result for me. I honestly could have won and would feel the same way. People can choose to believe it or not, but that is the truth. I did congratulate Johnson on the win. They did an amazing job of managing through troubling waters. I also gave credit to Bama and Last Resort for doing an incredible job finishing and closing the categories they could. Furthermore, I think you may recall a contest last year when you passed me the last day in football for 125k. I didn't even have your number, but I found a way to get it, and personally congratulate you no more than 10 minutes after the game ended. You can tell me if you didn't think it was from the heart. When Shane Schroeder beat me in miraculous fashion in the FFOC for a million bucks, ask him who invited who to get out of the Belagio and head over to O'sheas for some celebratory beers on me. I enjoy the competition win or lose. This time I didn't enjoy it, no matter what the result was.

2. I did not ask you to set a lineup any certain way. I just asked if you minded setting one, since it did not appear you had recently. It did not seem like you. But since you didn't respond until after the deadline, here is exactly what I sent you.

"I wouldn't want you to make a move to help me out. Not in a million years. I would want you to play your best team. And IMO that would include Doolittle and Colmenter and probably Papelbon. I wouldn't expect you to look at the standings and see who gets screwed by what. But I do understand your thought process, even though I don't agree with it. And was uber frustrating when we got penalized twice by you not getting news quite on time on Papelbon last week the way the standings work out. As if you did take him out for Colmenter the standings would look much different".

So just like you don't appreciate certain things, I sure as hell don't appreciate you leading people to believe that I wanted you to sit your closers. I wanted you to set your best lineup, as I feel everyone should do in a 20k league.

And furthermore we had this exact conversation a couple years ago. I respect your opinion greatly and asked if it was out of line to request someone to set a lineup in a high dollar league. You said you felt it was perfectly fine. But now you take offense to it?

3. The way you went about handling your lineup decisions in this league at the end had me considering how you approached something in a main event I was in with you this year. I am sure it was just random coincidence that any dealings with you in any league did not go my way, even though you were out of contention in both leagues. But it did factor into my thoughts, so I will ask. I am curious about your Schafer acquisition in the main event that I had an outside shot of winning the whole thing in. You were out of the league race there as well. I needed steals badly to make a push in the main event. I made a pretty strong bid on him(enough to win every other main event bid). Yet you acquired him, spending I believe a third or so of your 100-150 you had left if memory serves. Yet he was not so important to even insert into your lineup for 4 games right after the acquisition. Nor did he end up on any of your other main events that seemed to need steals worse. So I apologize for thinking there possibly could be a reason you didn't want me to succeed in either situation. Especially when you took a complete hands off approach in one instance which did not help, and a completely opposite approach in the other situation which also did not help. But I will chalk it up to random coincidence since you are a great champion that knows how to lose as well as win.

[Glenneration X]

2. I did not ask you to set a lineup any certain way. I just asked if you minded setting one, since it did not appear you had recently. It did not seem like you. But since you didn't respond until after the deadline, here is exactly what I sent you.

"I wouldn't want you to make a move to help me out. Not in a million years. I would want you to play your best team. And IMO that would include Doolittle and Colmenter and probably Papelbon. I wouldn't expect you to look at the standings and see who gets screwed by what. But I do understand your thought process, even though I don't agree with it. And was uber frustrating when we got penalized twice by you not getting news quite on time on Papelbon last week the way the standings work out. As if you did take him out for Colmenter the standings would look much different".

So just like you don't appreciate certain things, I sure as hell don't appreciate you leading people to believe that I wanted you to sit your closers. I wanted you to set your best lineup, as I feel everyone should do in a 20k league.

And furthermore we had this exact conversation a couple years ago. I respect your opinion greatly and asked if it was out of line to request someone to set a lineup in a high dollar league. You said you felt it was perfectly fine. But now you take offense to it?

Interesting. You respect me greatly, yet you continue to slander me publicly. Very well, I will respond yet again to each of your points starting with the one above and then I will hopefully be able to move on from this for good. I don't think anyone involved in this drama in any capacity has benefitted in the slightest.

I also find it ironic for you to state you don't appreciate me leading people to believe something about you.
Chad, please meet kettle.

I didn't know we were posting private emails, but it doesn't surprise me that you picked a part of an email from the middle of our conversation to present a context that fits what you are trying to portray.

Instead of the email above, you could post your original email that started the conversation and allow that email to speak for itself on whether when you first asked me to set a lineup, if Collmenter for Papelbon was or was not a basis for the discussion. I'm pretty sure that the portrayal from that email might be slightly different than from the one you chose to post.

And though I'm sure it was just an innocent oversight not to provide the basic courtesy to ask if it was OK to post an email from our private conversation when you posted the one above, I'm letting you know now, it's OK to post this other one.

Lastly, I took no offense with you reaching out to me to ask if I could set a lineup... and stated as much in that email conversation. What I do have a problem with is that after I had made it clear that I had already set a lineup, instead of that being enough (since you stated that is all you were asking of me), when that lineup wasn't to your and your partner's satisfaction/liking and the lineups of others followed suit, these threads and the baseless accusations within them were continuously and publicly laid upon me and those others by you and your partner in crime.

3. The way you went about handling your lineup decisions in this league at the end had me considering how you approached something in a main event I was in with you this year. I am sure it was just random coincidence that any dealings with you in any league did not go my way, even though you were out of contention in both leagues. But it did factor into my thoughts, so I will ask. I am curious about your Schafer acquisition in the main event that I had an outside shot of winning the whole thing in. You were out of the league race there as well. I needed steals badly to make a push in the main event. I made a pretty strong bid on him(enough to win every other main event bid). Yet you acquired him, spending I believe a third or so of your 100-150 you had left if memory serves. Yet he was not so important to even insert into your lineup for 4 games right after the acquisition. Nor did he end up on any of your other main events that seemed to need steals worse. So I apologize for thinking there possibly could be a reason you didn't want me to succeed in either situation. Especially when you took a complete hands off approach in one instance which did not help, and a completely opposite approach in the other situation which also did not help. But I will chalk it up to random coincidence since you are a great champion that knows how to lose as well as win.

Chad, are you serious here? I had to look through my leagues and the various overall standings to figure out what the hell you were talking about because I had no clue from just reading your post. After looking back a bit, I'm guessing you're referring to the March 26th Online Main Event league?

If you are, you do realize that I picked up Jordan Schafer on August 10th? Yes, a whole 7 weeks before the end of the season.

You also do realize that although I was likely out of the running for winning the league at the time, that I was middle of the pack, still had an outside chance to cash, and SB's was one of the offensive categories I could move up in?

You also might realize that I was dealing with OF injuries to Cuddyer, Craig, Bourn, & Crisp around that time and could have maybe used an extra reserve at the position?

You probably don't realize that this was the team that I was chronicling for BHQ and staying relevant for that purpose alone may have seemed like a decent idea at the time?

But you do seem to recall that my "block" bid was for a mere 32 dollars in FAAB? I'm not very good at this blocking strategy obviously.

And lastly, I'll help you realize that I picked up Schafer for 10 of my 18 leagues including the Diamond, NYC Super, MLBC and other high dollar leagues, so I must have seen something in him. Yet this one bid on him was solely to block you from winning the Overall with 7 weeks left in the season?

I can't believe you find a correlation between a FAAB bid made in early August in one league that I was still breathing in and a lineup decision made the last week of the season for a completely different league where I was already dead and buried. What's next, you'll blame me for making a draft pick in March that blocked you from winning an Online Championship?

I guess I owe you an apology for costing you both the Overall and the Platinum. Or maybe you could have just bid 33 on Schafer.

1. Furthermore, I think you may recall a contest last year when you passed me the last day in football for 125k. I didn't even have your number, but I found a way to get it, and personally congratulate you no more than 10 minutes after the game ended. You can tell me if you didn't think it was from the heart.

I saved this for last because it is the point I most want to respond to that you made.

Yes, of course I recall that moment. I thought extremely highly of you for that call and have mentioned it multiple times to multiple people as an example of what a great guy you were on top of being a great champion. It is who I thought you were.

These threads and these accusations are not who I thought you were.

[Hells Satans]

Now this whole thing is just making me sad.

[Glenneration X]

Now this whole thing is just making me sad.

How do you think it makes me feel?

[Hells Satans]

Now this whole thing is just making me sad.

How do you think it makes me feel?

Like you need a smoke and a jack and coke?

[Greg Ambrosius]

Now this whole thing is just making me sad.

And me. Are there any more lineup decisions that need to be addressed here guys? If not, it might be time to put an end to this thread. The owners you are questioning have responded to your lineup questions and unless there's more it seems like it's time to move on...or away...from this discussion. I think enough bridges have been burned. This was one of the closest leagues we had down the stretch and it still was a great league despite the after-season accusations. And I look forward to more Platinum and Diamond leagues in 2015 with likely some new participants.

Are we done now?

[Outlaw]

To the avg reader of this post and the previous one that was deleted for obvious reasons, I for one still cannot understand any of it. If the intent was to air it publicly, everyone has Won on that score, but quite frankly the whole thing is Sad, as Glen wrote. If the intent was to show that some of the NFBC's best players don't trust each other, check on that one too. If the intent was to instill some doubt in other NFBC's as to whether to participate with the top Guns, check on that too.

[King of Queens]

To the avg reader of this post and the previous one that was deleted for obvious reasons, I for one still cannot understand any of it. If the intent was to air it publicly, everyone has Won on that score, but quite frankly the whole thing is Sad, as Glen wrote. If the intent was to show that some of the NFBC's best players don't trust each other, check on that one too. If the intent was to instill some doubt in other NFBC's as to whether to participate with the top Guns, check on that too.

Everyone has won? There are only losers here, some more than others.

[Greg Ambrosius]

The tension that was in that Platinum draft room in Las Vegas last March was unlike anything I'd ever seen in a fantasy draft. You could cut it with a knife. And it was very cool. Every owner was respectful to each other, the draft went smooth and I think everyone agreed that this was the type of draft with the right type of owners that everyone was looking for. It was a fantastic draft with SiriusXM Fantasy Sports Radio even carrying it live for 3+ hours.

I can also say that at no point during the season did anyone ever contact me about any suspect moves in this league or any other NFBC league this year. There wasn't a single formal complaint by anyone in any high-dollar league, nor has there been any formal complaints about moves in the past. This league was no different than any other NFBC league and in fact heading into September it was one of the closest races with eight teams realistically in the money.

I did see Joe at the NFFC drafts in early September and even at that point he said he was questioning some lineup decisions by other teams, so I have to say that this wasn't just a Week 26 feeling. He didn't go into detail or even mention any team names, but he said he was watching everything. I figured he would, considering that Joe and Chad were in first or second place at the time. I didn't make too much of his comments. And in fact, Joe said this was the best fantasy season of his life, running a team with a great guy like Chad with so much money on the line.

So while it's easy to say this is a reflection of any high-dollar NFBC league, the truth of the matter is that you could second-guess starting lineups in any dollar-amount league. Why would anyone assume that second-guessing is only related to these guys in a Platinum League? It's just that with so much at stake one team took it public and asked for explanations. Those owners in question seem to be right there with answers, so nobody is hiding anything. But with every category so close and with so much money on the line, I can understand the tensions. I just think all of this could have been handled privately and without burning every bridge leading to each owner. Just my two cents.

[King of Queens]

I just think all of this could have been handled privately and without burning every bridge leading to each owner.

Could have been and SHOULD have been, but wasn't.

The motives were very clear from the beginning. Consider the very first post of the original Fair or Foul thread, when screen shots and lineup decisions would make us re-think who we considered the "best of the best." This was never going to be handled privately.

[Glenneration X]

Now this whole thing is just making me sad.

How do you think it makes me feel?

Like you need a smoke and a jack and coke?

The only post in either of Joe and Chad's threads that made me smile. Can I have two of each?

[The Mighty Men]

After reading two threads and numerous tense posts over a couple of weeks, I only have one burning question remaining - Is Chad still going to shoot his @o@k off?

[Greg Ambrosius]

Just an FYI: This thread is going away today, so take one last look, save your favorite quotes if you like and then be done with it. The damage has been done, points have been made by those who wanted to make them and now the NFBC is ready to move on to a new season. Say goodbye.

[KJ Duke]

What happened in this league happens in every league ... players that are buried are less intently focused on lineup decisions than those who are not. Joe positioned this as if he was reporting a massive expose', but in fact all he was reporting was a fundamental aspect of the game that everyone should realize by the end of their rookie season. The accused players or others in this league no doubt made other lineup decisions that could be scrutinized which helped Joe, but of course none of those will get reported. The entire accusation is from one lopsided viewpoint.

Anyone tilted toward paranoid beliefs and conspiracy theories should not play games in which others can impact the end result. He seems to be announcing his retirement here ... let's hope so, so future competitors don't have to be publicly interrogated over their motivations for no good reason, other than Joe lost money.

sincerely, KJ "West Coast" Duke

[Glenneration X]

Just an FYI: This thread is going away today, so take one last look, save your favorite quotes if you like and then be done with it. The damage has been done, points have been made by those who wanted to make them and now the NFBC is ready to move on to a new season. Say goodbye.

Greg, I really wish you wouldn't. This is your playground and you hold the keys to it, and I certainly understand why you want to delete it, but as one of the wrongfully accused I can only express my hope that you don't.

Whatever damage that could have been done by these threads has already been done. I've been reached out to by many, some who've said they've been reached out to by others about this thread. It's made it's way around the block already. There's no putting the genie back in the bottle at this point. People have already formed their opinions, whatever they may be.

Obviously I wish this thread and its deleted predecessor had never been started in the first place. However, I believe this thread has morphed into something different than from what Joe intended. I think it's proven that the accusations are baseless, wrong, and based on nothing more than paranoid delusions. It's served as a forum that's allowed the wrongfully accused to defend themselves and in the process the NFBC itself. It's all there in black and white and has helped clarify for many how ridiculous the concerns were in the first place.

The accusers themselves have been discredited and I'm assuming their silence the last few days is evidence that they realize that. Trying to take myself out of the center of this controversy and look at it impartially (not easy), I believe the accused have been redeemed, while the accusers have come out of this worst of all. This thread stands as a record of it all.

Doughy has shown in the thread on his forum when referencing the Gekko accusation from years ago, that even if you delete this thread from the boards, you won't delete the accusations from our memories. But time causes details to fade. Leave the thread and the details and discrediting of the paranoid accusations stand.

Just one man's thoughts. Obviously you will proceed as you deem in the best interests of your contest.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I put this in the other forum, but it looks like it is better served in this one....

I'm proud of the Message Board process here.
Joe and Chad thought they had been wronged. Whether this was conjured up in their own minds or whether they had a legitimate beef was not answered for them. They enlisted the help of others and asked for answers from some in their league.
Those questions have been answered to any onlookers opinion. I have not seen anybody ask for anything else to be proven.
I also think that Joe and Chad's questions have been answered to their own satisfaction. If not, they know that they have been more than answered to the satisfaction of others and that there is no use in pursuing it.

Glenn, Glenn, and Steve felt outrage, anger, and contempt for being wrongly accused. That is only natural.
Except for the early go between before all questions were answered, I think that both sides have been civil.
A tough thing to do in a case like this.
Some onlookers have taken up sides with the accused. But name calling has been minimal.Most, especially new folks, and those who have a small fear of the Boards, are just soaking in the information.

The folks involved in this league will never forget what happened. Neither will most onlookers.
And remembered too, will be the class that the individuals possessed after these charges were made.
I would not be hesitant in joining any league with them.

[KJ Duke]

I'm proud of the Message Board process here.

Well, I don't think I'd go THAT far. But I do agree with Glenn that the thread should stay. It's a forum for players to discuss issues around the game, and it is certainly an issue now. Hiding it only makes it suspect to rumor ... the facts are out, so let the facts speak for themselves.

The NFBC has not historically taken the view that forums are just advertising as did the WCOFF and others who don't want anything negative written anywhere. The discussion here let's people see that it's not just advertising ▬ honest opinions about the game are not suppressed. Likewise, I don't think there's anything written that's damaging to the contest anyway. And if some people are turned off by what they read it's probably best they see it now than become another Joe Money down the road.

[BK METS]

It should have never been started in the first place. But, in the end, I agree that it is a good example of one of the reasons the NFBC is at the top of fantasy sports, its message boards and Greg/Tom. Now that this thread is here, lets leave it and when someone has another complaint of collusion or wrong doing, we can refer to it as the prime example of how some perceptions can be misconstrued and maybe it will sway the next paranoid owner from making public accusations.

[Fourslot40]

This thread would be about 80 pages long if everyone posted about "out-of-it" teams not paying attention in their individual league that created an impact. It's literally every league big or small. We know this going in every year. You can only control what you can control and just hope to be on the right side of it more times than not.

[Cobb]

Wow, man am I glad I haven't been on this board in a couple of months. Could you pick three more stand up guys than Steve, Lowy, and KOQ to accuse of collusion? Unreal. Chad and Joe, you guys need to get over yourselves…you are both better than this.

You don't see my boy Magner crying or threatening to quit, and he's actually regularly colluded against, lol!

Man the guys who finished ahead of Chad and Joe must have one hell of a relationship with Jupinka. I'd like to think Steve and I are good buddies and I can't get him to tell me if he likes Trout, but apparently he'd be willing to help out other guys in his league. That is so funny!

This has to just be the sting of losing a close one in the end. I've been there and it sucks, but these guys will surely get over it and look back at this as a mistake.

[Sack]

Cobb - thanks for pointing me back to the boards for an interesting read. After reading, I clearly have 2 cents to toss
In but have neither the time or the energy to get involved in a fight that doesn't involve any if my teams. Just hope we can all just get along down the road.

As far as being colluded against, not me. My teams stunk up the NFBC boards way to much to have been relevant in any manner this year. So don't go starting any false rumors, we can see where that leads. Rock on boys, till we meet again.

[rockitsauce]

um........josh collmenter SUCKS

i hope that made Glenn smile

go Royals !

[Money]

I decided after my last post not to even look at baseball boards until next year as I knew there would be an outcry from the disputed players. During that time I took a couple of peaks and saw a name I respected (Dan) show up on the "View recent topics page".

In his post it became apparent to me that there was an overwhelming sense of vindication for the roster moves that I pointed out and the NFBC community was fine and dandy with what transpired. In reality I think that most that have played this game have had similar thoughts along the line that I have, this was simply for higher stakes.

I have not read through the thread but the sense I got is that everyone feels vindicated, what a joke. Greg A. called me to ask to take the thread down, during that conversation he quoted a couple of numbers that were absolutely inaccurate and that is the only reason I visit here today. He most likely got those inaccurate facts from the thread. The justification of the moves need to be done with 100% absolute facts. I will provide the exact numbers later this off season. If the NFBC (Greg A.) will authenticate those numbers it will go a long ways in providing the true facts.

Each of the lineups need to be judged on an individual basis, possibly a separate thread for each. I don't have the energy for that. I do know that the vindication that you all are feeling for the players and sanctity of the hobby we all love is not as simple as you want to believe. It is what you want to believe and we all want to believe that this game is pure. Nothing is pure in life.

I will be back to you and will most likely have to read through the thread to properly respond, that is not something that I look forward too and may not happen.

I received a text from a player today that I respect and that's why it got me back here. Everyone needs to realize that this game has many facets and everyone does not play by the same set of moral codes.