NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

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Tom Kessenich
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NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Tom Kessenich » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:46 am

Here is the updated career earning list. If you see something that needs to be fixed please email me at [email protected]. Thanks. :)

NFBC CAREER EARNINGS LEADERS
1. Donn Johnson $451,900
2. Lindy Hinkelman $399,275
3. David DiDonato $310,050
4. Stephen Jupinka $250,550
5. Eric Heberlig $245,900.50
6. Robert Particelli $235,800
7. David Potts $217,762.50
8. Greg Morgan $185,850
9. Ken Norred $161,775
10. John Lemke $159,650
11. Scott Fleming $153,950
12. Jim Ferrari $152,800
13. Chad Schroeder $148,225
14. David Longood $142,300
15. Shawn Childs $141,725
16. Terry Haney $130,288
17. Jeff Dobies $128,825
18. Rick Thomas $126,800
19. Ken Magner $124,725
20. David Deterra $118,700
21. Jaime Baird $117,175
22. James Stanard $116,450
23. Kevin Kirves $114,200
24. Dan Semsel $112,275
25. Robert Jurney $112,625
26. Artie Rastelli $106,625
27. Brian Oldenski $105,000
28. Glenn Lowy $97,025
29. Joe Thelen $96,800
30. KJ Duke $96,775
31. Shawn Johnson $87,350
32. Bill Strickler $85,475
33. Mark Srebro $84,388
34. William Tyrer $82,925
35. Michael O'Brien $78,150
36. Eddie Gillis $77,100
37. Gino Yu $76,850
38. Joseph Reagor $76,400
39. Glenn Schroter $68,300
40. John Pausma $64,000
41. Chris Schinker $61,950
42. Jeff Butler $61,900
43. Leonard Ringle $61,800
44. Brent Grooms $60,5002
45. Joe Berg $59,875
46. Scott Jenstad $51,925
47. Anthony Palavis $51,625
48. Andre Bourcier $51,460
49. Michael Edelman $46,025
50. Alan Greenberg $45,825

Top 25 All-Time Auction Winners
1. David Longood $130,000
2. Jeff Dobies $77,000
3. Ken Norred $72,200
4. Kevin Kirves $62,200
5. Josh Blumenreich $58,950
6. Glenn Lowy $57,500
7. William Tyrer $53,200
8. Shawn Childs $46,550
9. David Potts $46,000
10. Greg Morgan $45,500
11. Sam Botnick $45,100
12. Ken Magner $40,475
13. Bob Particelli $36,500
14. Lindy Hinkelman $33,300
15. Richard Gordon $29,870.50
16. Todd Zola $27,400
17. Michael DeCavalcante $25,000
18. Ante Meich $22,950
19. Jim Ferrari $22,500
20. Eddie Gillis $21,500
21. Andy Saxton $21,300
22. Alan Greenberg $20,850
23. Kelly Uganski $20,500
24. Anson Chan $18,950
25. Terry Haney $16,750
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich

TOXIC ASSETS
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by TOXIC ASSETS » Fri Oct 17, 2014 11:00 am

Good list.
I'm only $45,100 away from 50th place. :lol:

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Bama
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Bama » Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:15 pm

DiDonato only went up 4000 or so from last year, don't think that is right.

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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:22 pm

What I find incredible is that Lindy has won two Main Events and pulled off 'The Lindy' and still is not the all-time leading money winner.
Even more incredible is that there is never a mention of the Hall of Fame for the person ahead of him.
On my tombstone-
Wait! I never had the perfect draft!

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KJ Duke
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by KJ Duke » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:38 am

DOUGHBOYS wrote:What I find incredible is that Lindy has won two Main Events and pulled off 'The Lindy' and still is not the all-time leading money winner.
Even more incredible is that there is never a mention of the Hall of Fame for the person ahead of him.
I don't know how Donn has gotten there aside from the Platinum this year, but in general the money list isn't a very good skill indicator because beating 14 guys (even really good ones) does not impress to the extent of beating 419 out of 420 Main Event players, yet it pays double.

Likewise, the Platinum pays 30x a main event league win and the diamond pays 12x. So Dan, you'd have to win 30 Main Events to catch Donn in $ for his one 15-teamer win ... can you get there??? :lol: I'd assign a proportionate credit to Plat/Dia/Ult/Super winners (something like 1.5x • 1.4x • 1.2x • 1.1x) when comparing wins to a main event league for relative skill purposes ... it's still just winning a 15-leaguer, albeit a higher grade 15-leaguer with less guppies.

More so than money leaders, I'd be interested to see a list showing: (1) number of leagues won across high-stakes 15-team leagues (main, auction, super, ult, diamond, plat), and (2) number of leagues cashed across all of the same. The Money List is flashier for advertising purposes, but it's not a great indicator of the best players.

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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Hells Satans » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:00 am

Agree with KJ. Also agree that Donn is a fantastic player and had an unbelievable year. I had some time to kill, so I went back the last 4 years for me. 2010 was my first year in NFBC, but I think I only played MEs and finished 2nd in a Super but I really don't remember how I did. This was my first year doing an auction.

2014 Diamond (1st)
2013 Diamond (1st)

2014 Ultimate Auction (3rd)
2012 Ultimate (2nd)
2011 Ultimate (2nd)

2012 Super (1st)
2011 Super (2nd)

2013 ME (1st, 9th Overall)
2013 ME (3rd)
2012 ME (3rd), 37th overall)
2011 ME (1st, 26th overall)

2014 Auction Championship (1st, 1st overall)

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KJ Duke
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by KJ Duke » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:33 am

That's an awesome 4 years Bob! 8-)

Hells Satans
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Hells Satans » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:39 am

I left out quite a few "13th place, did not cash"

:D

Cocktails and Dreams
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Cocktails and Dreams » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:23 pm

It is a money list. Johnson has grossed the most money. Why would we need some NASA like calculations to try and figure out who is the best player? Money is a pretty good way of keeping score. And I think it is pretty safe to say he is also one of the most profitable players in NFBC history as well. It would sure be interesting to see net earnings or losses. But for obvious reasons, that is not going to happen.

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Cobb
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Cobb » Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:44 am

Cocktails and Dreams wrote:It is a money list. Johnson has grossed the most money. Why would we need some NASA like calculations to try and figure out who is the best player? Money is a pretty good way of keeping score. And I think it is pretty safe to say he is also one of the most profitable players in NFBC history as well. It would sure be interesting to see net earnings or losses. But for obvious reasons, that is not going to happen.
The guy who plays 200 leagues a year thinks that total money won is a great indicator of elite fantasy skill, I'm shocked. Oldenski won 1 league and he's 27th overall in money earned, ahead of KJ, Srebro, and a laundry list of great players. What does that data tell us? He was incredibly profitable on a per league basis in your book I guess.

Just keep flooding the market Chad and u will be on top in no time with your success rate. Great player + 40 times more leagues than the rest of us = way more money won than most of us.
"My reputation precedes me. Otherwise I'd be late for all my appointments." - Harry Crumb

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Gekko
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Gekko » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:10 am

Just put the data out there and let people decide for themselves.
Number of leagues entered
Total entry fees paid
Total prize money won
Done

The current list is interesting to look at, but without the proper context, that's all it is. And until/unless the list actually matters in a significant way, there's really not much to get excited about.

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Roger Dorn
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Roger Dorn » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:21 am

Gekko wrote:Just put the data out there and let people decide for themselves.
Number of leagues entered
Total entry fees paid
Total prize money won
Done

The current list is interesting to look at, but without the proper context, that's all it is. And until/unless the list actually matters in a significant way, there's really not much to get excited about.
+1

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Greg Ambrosius
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:45 am

Settle down boys. Yes, it's just a career money leaders list, but it's another set of data that is at our disposable and fun to look at. We don't have the other data as easily to get, which would be total number of leagues entered, total money spent, total leagues cashed in, etc., unless we went through every person's account individually. I do that when I update the Hall of Fame thread or when we look at potential Hall of Famers, but it's not an easy process.

We are attempting to have more past history in your Player Accounts, but money spent with the NFBC only goes back to when we joined STATS in 2011, so it definitely doesn't include all moneys spent with the NFBC.

Again, I think it's just another data point of interest and obviously anyone who has won an overall grand prize or are in multiple leagues or who can win some of these top private leagues will move higher up on the list. That's inevitable. That doesn't mean they are the best of the best, but it shows they are placing in the money pretty often. KJ already has a great setup for comparing the top players in our Main Events and we all agree that those rankings tell a more complete story. We should have a separate link from our site to those rankings and I'll see if we can do that. Makes sense.

And Chad saying that money won is very important makes sense because after all everyone is chasing the money in these contests. How much each of you spends to win that money is up to you and your accountant, but at the end of the day it's fun to see who has won the most money in the NFBC since 2004. Heck, in Donn Johnson's case he's shared some of his winnings with Gino Yu, his partner in many of these contests, so how much he's actually won is known only to those guys. But his teams have consistently won and that's why he's on top, ahead of some of our Hall of Famers. It's an impressive number no matter how you look at it.

Let's not turn every thread into a playground fight. This is a fun list to look at and nobody is hiding any other facts; they aren't as readily available to post all of them. So enjoy the list and congrats to everyone who has won money in the NFBC since 2004. We'd love to give more of it away in 2015.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
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Hells Satans
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Hells Satans » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:06 am

Gekko wrote:Just put the data out there and let people decide for themselves.
Number of leagues entered
Total entry fees paid
Total prize money won
Done

The current list is interesting to look at, but without the proper context, that's all it is. And until/unless the list actually matters in a significant way, there's really not much to get excited about.
Based on the player account info, my winnings are roughly 3x my buy-ins.

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Gekko
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Gekko » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:14 am

Hells Satans wrote:
Gekko wrote:Just put the data out there and let people decide for themselves.
Number of leagues entered
Total entry fees paid
Total prize money won
Done

The current list is interesting to look at, but without the proper context, that's all it is. And until/unless the list actually matters in a significant way, there's really not much to get excited about.
Based on the player account info, my winnings are roughly 3x my buy-ins.
That's pretty good! 8-)

Hells Satans
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Hells Satans » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:21 am

I pay may taxes. :D

On the other hand, buy-in vs. winnings can punish an excellent player that hasn't fared well in big buy in events. If enter and win 2 MEs but finish 7th in the Diamond, I'm a break-even or negative $$ player. That doesn't seem to be a fair way to judge it either.

In any event, i think people know who the really good players are.

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mdecav
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by mdecav » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:05 am

The percent of times you're in the top 3 in your league would be a good indicator. The amount of money on the line is separate.

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Roger Dorn
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Roger Dorn » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:33 am

A 3x avg return is amazing. But scalability is likely an issue. I assume the leaders on the career money list have to balance ROI with invested capital and effort. What do you think their ROI would be if they played only a handful $150 leagues?

Anyone on this list care to share their annual ROI? Especially those that have increased the amount of capital outlaid?
I'll share, though my invested amount is laughable on a relative basis.
My ROI has moved down to 60% in 2014 from 600% as my spending has increased 10x from 2011.
My lifetime ROI is 127% - how does this compare?

Anyone able to maintain the same ROI as their invested capital ramped higher?

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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Hells Satans » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:45 pm

Cobb wrote:
Cocktails and Dreams wrote:It is a money list. Johnson has grossed the most money. Why would we need some NASA like calculations to try and figure out who is the best player? Money is a pretty good way of keeping score. And I think it is pretty safe to say he is also one of the most profitable players in NFBC history as well. It would sure be interesting to see net earnings or losses. But for obvious reasons, that is not going to happen.
The guy who plays 200 leagues a year thinks that total money won is a great indicator of elite fantasy skill, I'm shocked. Oldenski won 1 league and he's 27th overall in money earned, ahead of KJ, Srebro, and a laundry list of great players. What does that data tell us? He was incredibly profitable on a per league basis in your book I guess.

Just keep flooding the market Chad and u will be on top in no time with your success rate. Great player + 40 times more leagues than the rest of us = way more money won than most of us.
This seems like an unnecessarily combative post, eh?

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Cobb
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Cobb » Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:59 am

Hells Satans wrote:
Cobb wrote:
Cocktails and Dreams wrote:It is a money list. Johnson has grossed the most money. Why would we need some NASA like calculations to try and figure out who is the best player? Money is a pretty good way of keeping score. And I think it is pretty safe to say he is also one of the most profitable players in NFBC history as well. It would sure be interesting to see net earnings or losses. But for obvious reasons, that is not going to happen.
The guy who plays 200 leagues a year thinks that total money won is a great indicator of elite fantasy skill, I'm shocked. Oldenski won 1 league and he's 27th overall in money earned, ahead of KJ, Srebro, and a laundry list of great players. What does that data tell us? He was incredibly profitable on a per league basis in your book I guess.

Just keep flooding the market Chad and u will be on top in no time with your success rate. Great player + 40 times more leagues than the rest of us = way more money won than most of us.
This seems like an unnecessarily combative post, eh?
Yeah, you're right Bob. Totally unnecessary. Just think total $ won doesn't tell the story. But probably a bit overboard. My bad Chad, et all.
"My reputation precedes me. Otherwise I'd be late for all my appointments." - Harry Crumb

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rockitsauce
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by rockitsauce » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:39 pm

Hells Satans wrote: This seems like an unnecessarily combative post, eh?
No it's not Bob. Not at all. KJ is right & these 2 guys (cocktail & money) just hate him (and as we have seen EVERY TIME) any creative idea by KJ is met w/ disapproval, disdain, and/or sarcasm. "Nasa like calculations", not quite. Lindy beating 400 some guys 2 different yrs (not even mentioning his other successes) is FAR more impressive a feat than one guy beating 14.

I don't care if he won a million. If all he had to do was beat 14 and not 420 then he's got it WAY easier. To not consider some type of formula as KJ suggests (whether it's his or some other) is just resisting logic.

You don't need to be an expert in statistics to see that.

I also think that people who badger, harangue & harass, & start accusatory threads about their league-mates are assholes. It is what it is. At the end of the yr you cashed in a given lge or not. EVERYBODY can cry about how if this one team just woulda passed team x in saves & era then I woulda gained BLAH BLAH BLAH...Happens to us all. Your stakes were higher, but it's still the same game. And crying about it after the fact just makes you look like bitches.
Always be closing.

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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Cocktails and Dreams » Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:05 pm

Cobb wrote:
Cocktails and Dreams wrote:It is a money list. Johnson has grossed the most money. Why would we need some NASA like calculations to try and figure out who is the best player? Money is a pretty good way of keeping score. And I think it is pretty safe to say he is also one of the most profitable players in NFBC history as well. It would sure be interesting to see net earnings or losses. But for obvious reasons, that is not going to happen.
The guy who plays 200 leagues a year thinks that total money won is a great indicator of elite fantasy skill, I'm shocked. Oldenski won 1 league and he's 27th overall in money earned, ahead of KJ, Srebro, and a laundry list of great players. What does that data tell us? He was incredibly profitable on a per league basis in your book I guess.

Just keep flooding the market Chad and u will be on top in no time with your success rate. Great player + 40 times more leagues than the rest of us = way more money won than most of us.
I think I was in 7 leagues this year. And my sole purpose for entering any of them was to try and be on top of the NFBC gross money earnings. You busted me. I am all about accolades and it sucks that you caught me. At some point I need to gravitate towards trying to be profitable and not care about that gross money list.

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Cobb
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Re: NFBC All-Time Career Money Leaders

Post by Cobb » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:26 pm

Cocktails and Dreams wrote:
Cobb wrote:
Cocktails and Dreams wrote:It is a money list. Johnson has grossed the most money. Why would we need some NASA like calculations to try and figure out who is the best player? Money is a pretty good way of keeping score. And I think it is pretty safe to say he is also one of the most profitable players in NFBC history as well. It would sure be interesting to see net earnings or losses. But for obvious reasons, that is not going to happen.
The guy who plays 200 leagues a year thinks that total money won is a great indicator of elite fantasy skill, I'm shocked. Oldenski won 1 league and he's 27th overall in money earned, ahead of KJ, Srebro, and a laundry list of great players. What does that data tell us? He was incredibly profitable on a per league basis in your book I guess.

Just keep flooding the market Chad and u will be on top in no time with your success rate. Great player + 40 times more leagues than the rest of us = way more money won than most of us.
I think I was in 7 leagues this year. And my sole purpose for entering any of them was to try and be on top of the NFBC gross money earnings. You busted me. I am all about accolades and it sucks that you caught me. At some point I need to gravitate towards trying to be profitable and not care about that gross money list.
So I guess you totally missed the post I made after this that essentially apologized for singling to out? Typical response from you that I would expect. I didn't say anything about you playing a bunch of leagues JUST to be on top of the money standings. I know you want to win as much as possible just like everyone else. I was busting on you for thinking the total money won is a big indicator of how great you are. KJ was right, as usual, and you didn't need to call him NASA. It was you who thought total money won means a lot and that is what I was referring to.

I don't know how many baseball leagues you did, if it was 7 or not I could care less. I know it was impossible to find a football league without you in it though. And if you win more cash than anybody else in football I will be happy for you and it will be well deserved…but that's it.

But thanks for responding to my oldest post, very classy. I'm glad you got your fake point across, very politically savvy.
"My reputation precedes me. Otherwise I'd be late for all my appointments." - Harry Crumb

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