Kris Bryant

COZ
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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by COZ » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:37 pm

DOUGHBOYS wrote:
I fully expect and endorse the Cubs sending Bryant down.
I would just like them to do it with full transparency. When sending him down, don't tell us about his defense.
Don't tell us about his shoulder.
Don't tell us about seasoning.
Don't tell us the merits of Olt or Lastella.

DO tell us that it is because it is best for the Cubs.
DO tell us that it's because it's a stupid rule.
DO tell us that he'll be starting at 3b when eligible to get another year.
It's not that hard.
While I know your point was more globally directed toward the disingenuity of executives in sports generally in discussing these types of matters, and the Bryant case was used as a perfect example to show such disingenuity from Management toward the public, the fact is that the Cubs simply cannot say what you want them to say for legal reasons. They simply cannot say "Bryant is a stud, we cannot wait until he is with the Club but we can't bring him up because we don't want to lose a 7th year of control." THAT, is what we in the legal business call a smoking gun. One of the toughest things for lawyers to prove is what is in someone's mind, or what they intended, i.e. intent. The easiest way to prove intent? Words out of someone's mouth, the things they say. This is why we as lawyers don't want clients to say anything when there is the threat of criminal charges/pending lawsuit, etc.

Why is this important? The CBA, and the law requires that owners/employers act in "good faith" in their dealings with each other. And if an Employer acts in a manner that restricts or prevents labor from earning a fair wage, then a grievance could be filed, and the Labor Relations Board or an arbitrator would listen to the "facts" or the evidence to determine whether the Cubs intentionally restricted Bryant from earning a fair wage as it relates to service time. And the first thing the MLPA 's lawyer's would be looking for is a smoking gun statement/sound bite from Cubs Managment to prove their point. While we all know it's a charade, and we all may know the reasons, proving that in a contested hearing is much more difficult. For that reason, the Cubs simply cannot openly admit that they are keeping Bryant in the Minors for anything other than baseball reaaons.

And as I so often like to tell my criminal clients in a condescending, kindergardner-teacher-voice, "Loose Lips. Sink Ships." And this is why Bryant is being sent down to the Minors to work on his Defense for 3 weeks. :roll:

COZ
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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:41 pm

I get it.
I just grew up in a different era, I guess.
It really is a different world.
On my tombstone-
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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by LasVegasBlvd » Fri Mar 20, 2015 12:34 am

Well Done!

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Edwards Kings » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:11 am

DOUGHBOYS wrote:I get it.
I just grew up in a different era, I guess.
It really is a different world.
Many don't realize, in a different era baseball was not Doughboy's first attempt at sports!

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Navel Lint » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:03 am

DOUGHBOYS wrote:I get it.
I just grew up in a different era, I guess.
It really is a different world.

I'm not as old as you, and I'm not exactly sure which target you are pointing your comment at.

But if you are talking about respect for customers or the public at large, you can't really believe that businesses are just now doing what is in their best interest without providing you the truth behind their motivations or flat out lying to your face.

As for Cubs, based on the constants of the system, I completely agree with the Cubs sending Bryant down for 12 days.

As for Bryant, and the good old days when teams played their best 9.
I think two weeks at AAA Iowa, and then getting contract arbitration and $$$$$$$ in two years as a Super-2 won't end up being as bad for him as it was for players in the good old days that had no options, other than to quit.

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Deadheadz » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:33 pm

Regarding the hype over Bryant:

Here are the pitchers who gave up HR to Kris B this spring:

1. Marshall
2. Bauer
3. Lindstrom
4. Ramos
5. Hahn
6. Scribner

Only two of these guys are regular big leaguers not past their prime. And both are probably tinkering with pitches while they prepare for games that count.

Why Bryant's ADP would climb based on these performances has more to do with wishful thinking than empirical data. Some experts are saying his 2015 upside is 30 HR. While that's useful in fantasy, you'd probably be lucky to get Chris Carter upside from the Cubs 3rdbaseman.

One of the guys on yesterday's Fangraphs podcast said it best:
"...the next Wily Mo Pena" is a possibility after you consider the big league production we're likely to see after veteran pitchers get the book on Bryant.

Overvalue him at your peril.


.
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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by COZ » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:30 pm

Deadheadz wrote:Regarding the hype over Bryant:

Here are the pitchers who gave up HR to Kris B this spring:

1. Marshall
2. Bauer
3. Lindstrom
4. Ramos
5. Hahn
6. Scribner

Only two of these guys are regular big leaguers not past their prime. And both are probably tinkering with pitches while they prepare for games that count.

Why Bryant's ADP would climb based on these performances has more to do with wishful thinking than empirical data. Some experts are saying his 2015 upside is 30 HR. While that's useful in fantasy, you'd probably be lucky to get Chris Carter upside from the Cubs 3rdbaseman.

One of the guys on yesterday's Fangraphs podcast said it best:
"...the next Wily Mo Pena" is a possibility after you consider the big league production we're likely to see after veteran pitchers get the book on Bryant.

Overvalue him at your peril.


.
Plus 40% strikeout rate in the Minors, not even on the 40 man Roster thus options, less than half a season in Triple AAA, questions about his defense, no actual MLB at-bats, tearing it up in Spring Training against non-MLB-type pitching, 69% contact rate in AA, 65% contact rate in AAA. Top 100 ADP? As a Cub fan and a total Cub homer, I'm as high on him and the Cubs future as anyone, but this is setting up as a total suckers play for Fantasy Baseball, in my opinion.

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Bama
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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Bama » Sat Mar 21, 2015 8:12 am

K rate was 27 percent, not 40. not sure on the other numbers. Doesn't help you argument when you state stuff that is ridiculous off even if the premise is sound.

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by COZ » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:26 am

Bama wrote:K rate was 27 percent, not 40. not sure on the other numbers. Doesn't help you argument when you state stuff that is ridiculous off even if the premise is sound.
My apologies, was going off the top of my head on that and did not look it up. Must have confused him with Javy Baez. :oops: My point remains there is some swing and miss to his his game and he has not even faced MLB pitching. I hope I'm wrong.

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"Baseball has it share of myths, things that blur the line between fact & fiction....Abner Doubleday inventing the game, Babe Ruth's Called Shot, Sid Finch's Fastball, the 2017 Astros...Barry Bonds's 762 HR's" -- Tom Verducci

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:50 am

Numerish!
Sure there are holes in his swing. There are holes in just about every players swing.
K Rate is fascinating. Both the stat itself and the use of it by fantasy enthusiasts.
117 players struck out at least 100 times last year. More than at anytime in baseball history.
It is also more players than the number of players striking out that many times between 1901-1960
Even as late as 1980, only 11 players struck out 100 times.
Strike outs have become a larger part of baseball.
They are increasing each and every year during this era.
Last year, 57 players had at least 20 home runs. 48 of those players struck out 100 times or more.
The number one player in fantasy baseball was third in striking out.
Miss happens!
As fantasy players, we care more about a k rate before the season begins than after.
Once the season begins and a player has a box score that reads 5-1-1-3, hr, 4 k's
We are more than happy.
On my tombstone-
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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by slopshot » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:08 pm

Well he did take King K deep today, I would say his power is no fluke and he will hit plenty of Hr's. It maybe a gamble to take him in the third, or forth round but I take a shot as early as round five.

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Yah Mule » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:19 pm

And another. This one off Correia. He seems to hit them off the young, the old, the elite and the broken down.

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Baseball Furies » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:07 pm

As much as I like what I am seeing with him, this entire thread seems to reek of the ghost of Eric Hosmer from just a few years ago...which means Gekko will probably take him in the first round. :roll: :P
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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by TOXIC ASSETS » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:56 am

DOUGHBOYS wrote:Numerish!
Sure there are holes in his swing. There are holes in just about every players swing.
K Rate is fascinating. Both the stat itself and the use of it by fantasy enthusiasts.
117 players struck out at least 100 times last year. More than at anytime in baseball history.
It is also more players than the number of players striking out that many times between 1901-1960
Even as late as 1980, only 11 players struck out 100 times.
Strike outs have become a larger part of baseball.
They are increasing each and every year during this era.
Last year, 57 players had at least 20 home runs. 48 of those players struck out 100 times or more.
The number one player in fantasy baseball was third in striking out.
Miss happens!
As fantasy players, we care more about a k rate before the season begins than after.
Once the season begins and a player has a box score that reads 5-1-1-3, hr, 4 k's
We are more than happy.
Ted Williams struck out 709 times in his entire career 19 year career. However -- the game was different back then. Today -- too many specialist relievers and generally better pitching to deal with that there was back then. But that's just a guess on my part.

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Gekko » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:58 am

Baseball Furies wrote:As much as I like what I am seeing with him, this entire thread seems to reek of the ghost of Eric Hosmer from just a few years ago...which means Gekko will probably take him in the first round. :roll: :P
hosmer in the 1st would still be an all-time best pick for someone of your caliber :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Baseball Furies » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:03 am

Gekko wrote:
Baseball Furies wrote:As much as I like what I am seeing with him, this entire thread seems to reek of the ghost of Eric Hosmer from just a few years ago...which means Gekko will probably take him in the first round. :roll: :P
hosmer in the 1st would still be an all-time best pick for someone of your caliber :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yeah, and that's why you did so well in the Main Event that year taking Hosmer in the first when he wasn't even a consideration there for me. I know it's tough for you being a has-been, but stop trying to recapture your glory days by recommending the likes of Verlander as a breakout candidate this year hoping people buy it. It's an old tactic that we all just laugh at now. ;) :P :P
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." ~Dave Barry

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by ALL-IN JD » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:07 am

Baseball Furies wrote:
Gekko wrote:
Baseball Furies wrote:As much as I like what I am seeing with him, this entire thread seems to reek of the ghost of Eric Hosmer from just a few years ago...which means Gekko will probably take him in the first round. :roll: :P
hosmer in the 1st would still be an all-time best pick for someone of your caliber :lol: :lol: :lol:
Yeah, and that's why you did so well in the Main Event that year taking Hosmer in the first when he wasn't even a consideration there for me. I know it's tough for you being a has-been, but stop trying to recapture your glory days by recommending the likes of Verlander as a breakout candidate this year hoping people buy it. It's an old tactic that we all just laugh at now. ;) :P :P
Speak for yourself!! I think it is very helpful and allows me to better prepare for the upcoming drafts!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Gekko » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:42 am

Baseball Furies wrote:Yeah, and that's why you did so well in the Main Event that year taking Hosmer in the first when he wasn't even a consideration there for me. I know it's tough for you being a has-been, but stop trying to recapture your glory days by recommending the likes of Verlander as a breakout candidate this year hoping people buy it. It's an old tactic that we all just laugh at now. ;) :P :P [/b]
mikey - if we were ever to compare nfbc league titles won (main event, other leagues), we'd have to look way down the list to find you. {hell, are u even on the list?}

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Gekko » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:43 am

i can tell, mikey gettn the shakes now :lol: :twisted:

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Yah Mule » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:50 am

TOXIC ASSETS wrote: Ted Williams struck out 709 times in his entire career 19 year career. However -- the game was different back then. Today -- too many specialist relievers and generally better pitching to deal with that there was back then. But that's just a guess on my part.
The culture of the game has changed, too. There used to be some kind of stigma attached to striking out. Victor Martinez has only struck out 637 times in 6128 AB's.

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Baseball Furies » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:34 pm

Gekko wrote:i can tell, mikey gettn the shakes now :lol: :twisted:
Yes Mark, obviously anyone who knows me and you would think immediately that I would be scared of you. :roll: Like Yah Mule said, the game has changed in baseball, and it has changed in the NFBC. The days of you making hay against a weaker and significantly smaller field of competition are over along with your success in doing so (except that is in the few hundred DC's that you like to do each year). So continue to bask in the glory of the "good ole days" as your time has clearly passed.
:P :P :P :mrgreen:
"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base." ~Dave Barry

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Gekko » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:39 pm

mike - folks here want you to think you have game :twisted:

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by sandckaye » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:36 pm

Getting back to Kris Bryant...I wonder.how the Cub fans would feel if they finished a half game out of making the playoffs and Bryant didn't come up for 2 weeks..You would think that his bat would change the outcome of at least one of the losses of the first two weeks.....I don't think its fair to the fans if that happened..Just my 2 cents worth

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by Yah Mule » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:33 pm

sandckaye wrote:Getting back to Kris Bryant...I wonder.how the Cub fans would feel if they finished a half game out of making the playoffs and Bryant didn't come up for 2 weeks..You would think that his bat would change the outcome of at least one of the losses of the first two weeks.....I don't think its fair to the fans if that happened..Just my 2 cents worth

Stan
The Angels kept Mike Trout down for 20 games in 2012. They went 6-14 without him and 83-59 after his recall. They missed the wild card by four games.

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Re: Kris Bryant

Post by mdecav » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:06 pm

Yah Mule wrote:
The Angels kept Mike Trout down for 20 games in 2012. They went 6-14 without him and 83-59 after his recall. They missed the wild card by four games.
A 8-10 WAR player like Trout means you influence an extra win about once every two or three weeks. Wouldn't have been a factor for the Angels.

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