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Okay, let's try this again.

I took the feedback from my original post and have fine-tuned the scoring for our debut points-style baseball contest: The NFBC Post-Season Contest. We definitely understand the growth of DFS and how so many fantasy players are now in tune with those scoring systems, so we chucked our previous idea and went more with a DFS scoring setup. We've added Saves as a scoring category, but that total will definitely have to be changed when we run the season-long points game because Saves are more infrequent over 162 games than in short series.

This is not the same roster configuration or exact scoring system that we'll use for the NFBC Cutline Championship in 2016, but the scoring is close. This is unique to the NFBC Post-Season Contest. Take a look and give us your feedback when you have time. Thanks all and good luck the rest of the regular season. This contest will be waiting for you when the post-season arrives:

OFFICIAL RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE NATIONAL FANTASY BASEBALL CHAMPIONSHIP (NFBC)
POST-SEASON HOLD ‘EM TOURNAMENT
1. Overview
The National Fantasy Baseball Championship Post-Season Hold ‘Em Tournament will begin with the first Wild Card games on October 6th and continue through the completion of the World Series. Points will be accumulated throughout the playoffs and the team with the most total points wins the grand prize. Second through 15th place prizes will also be paid based on total points. Each round the number of points that an MLB player earns for your team will be multiplied by the number of rounds he has been on your roster, rewarding owners who correctly predict the top players on this year’s World Series teams. This multiplier scoring system will give MLB players their stats in the Wild Card and Division Series, then two times their scoring totals in the League Championship Series and three times their scoring totals in the World Series. Owners are allowed to make replacements in Rounds 2 and 3 for players who have been eliminated from the playoffs, but each time those players are added they start out with just their scoring totals for that Round. Players who are added to your roster in the Championship Round for the first time and advance to the World Series would then receive 2 times their scoring total in the World Series.

2. Draft: Owners must manage a team of 16 players throughout the playoffs to accumulate the most points. This is a total points contest with the winner being determined at the end of the World Series. Owners will initially complete their 16-man roster before the first Wild Card game by selecting at least 1 player per playoff team and no more than three players per playoff team. In the second round as teams are eliminated from the MLB playoffs, owners must have at least one player per team and can have as many as six players from the same team on their Hold ’Em roster. In Round 3, which is the World Series, owners must fill a roster of 16 players with 8 players from each MLB team. Owners build their rosters by choosing any player from the available playoff pool for each of the required 16 positions in each round.

3. Roster Requirements: Maximum of 16 players for Rounds 1, 2 and 3. No more than three players and no less than one player per MLB team in the first round and no more than six players per MLB team in the second round and no less than one player per MLB team. In the third round of the MLB playoffs, teams will be limited to 8 players per team for a total of 16 roster spots.

Round 1: Wild Card Games and Divisional Games
Round 2: League Championship Series
Round 3: World Series

4. Starting Lineup Requirements: Starting lineups for all Rounds will consist of:

• 1 catcher
• 1 First Baseman
• 1 Second Baseman
• 1 Shortstop
• 1 Third Baseman
• 1 Utility Hitter (any position or DH)
• 4 Outfielders
• 6 Pitchers (any combination of starters and relievers)

5. Scoring: The NFBC Post-Season Hold ‘Em Contest is a points-based league. Players can accumulate points in the following ways:

NFBC Post-Season Hold 'Em Contest
Hitters
1B = 1 point
2B = 2 points
3B = 3 points
HR = 4 points
RBI = 1 point
R = 1 point
BB = 1 point
SB = 2 points
HBP = 1 point
Out (calculated as at bats - hits) = -.25pt

Pitchers:
W = 4 points
Save = 4 points
ER = -1 point
SO = 1 point
IP = 1 point

The NFBC Post-Season Hold ‘Em Tournament is a points-based league designed to approximate the relative contribution value of batter and pitcher outcomes in standard NFBC rotisserie leagues. The NFBC Post-Season Hold ‘Em Tournament starts with the MLB Wild Card games and continues through the World Series games. This is a points-based contest with the top scoring team at the end winning the grand prize. Cost of entry is $150 per team. The site will provide Live Scoring for all players during the playoffs and Live Standings for all teams entered into the Post-Season Hold ‘Em Tournament.

A starting lineup will consist of 10 hitters and 6 pitchers, with the same positions and position eligibility of standard NFBC leagues except for one less catcher. Scoring is automatic, with each team’s 16 starting players receiving points throughout the playoffs. Players that remain on your roster from Round 1 to Round 2 earn twice their point totals in Round 2 and if they are still on your roster in Round 3 they receive three times their point total for each result. Teams are allowed to fill out their Round 2 roster with new players to replace those who were eliminated in Round 1, but those players start at one time their scoring totals. If they advance to Round 3 and remain on your roster, they would get twice their scoring totals in Round 3. Replacements are also allowed in Round 3 for any players you may have lost in Round 2 and again they would start with just their scoring totals for that round.

6. Free Agent Acquisitions: After Round 1 of the playoffs, you can pick up new players to fill out your playoff roster. Owners are limited to no more than 3 players per team and no less than 1 player per team in Round 1. In Round 2 as teams are eliminated from the playoffs, owners can have as many as six players from each team on their Hold ’Em roster and no less than 1 player per team. In Round 3, rosters consist of 8 players from each of the remaining MLB teams. Transactions are unlimited each round.

7. Hold ’Em Multipliers: Each Round during the contest, fantasy points are multiplied by the number of Rounds each player has been on your roster. So if you pick Mike Trout to be one of your starting OFs in Round 1 and the Angels advance to Round 2, you would earn his points from Round 1 and then two times his points in Round 2. If the Angels went on to the World Series and Trout remained on your Hold ‘Em roster, you’d receive three times his scoring total for all games in Round 3. All points are accumulated through each Round and the highest total wins the grand prize. In each Round, you can pick up a new player for that upcoming round, but the multiplier would begin at one because you just added him to your roster.

8. Roster Time Frame: All starting rosters must be finalized five minutes before MLB’s first Wild Card playoff game on Tuesday, Oct. 6th. No lineup changes will be allowed after that first pitch in Round 1. Wild Card games and Divisional games are part of Round 1; League Championship Games compile Round 2 scores and World Series results compile Round 3 scores. Rosters are due 5 minutes before the scheduled start time of the first game in each of those Rounds.

9. Number of Bid Limits: There is no limit to the number of new free agents you can add each week.

10. League Structure: All teams are entered into this one contest with a $150 entry fee and a $25,000 grand prize. The top 15 finishers at the end of the post-season will earn cash prizes. The prize breakdown is set forth in Paragraph 11 which follows.

11. Prize Breakdown:
$150 National Fantasy Baseball Championship Hold ‘Em Post-Season Contest
1st Place - $25,000
2nd Place - $5,000
3rd Place - $4,000
4th Place - $3,000
5th Place - $2,000
6th Place - $1,500
7th Place - $1,000
8th Place - $900
9th Place - $800
10th Place - $750
11th Place - $700
12th Place - $650
13th Place - $600
14th Place - $550
15th Place - $500

12. National Guarantee: Once a participant signs up online and submits valid payment, no money will be refunded to participants or co-managers unless the Hold ’Em Post-Season Tournament is canceled. A team spot is considered filled when the entire entry fee is paid. There also is no limit to the number of entries an owner may have in the contest. The NFBC is not responsible for any loss or liability incurred by any participant or co-managers due to cancellation of The NFBC Hold ’Em Post-Season Tournament, including but not limited to time taken off from employment, etc.

13. Prize Winnings: If the principal team owner's prize winnings are $600.00 or greater (or any other threshold subsequently established by the IRS), the National Fantasy Baseball Championship (“NFBC”) must file a Form 1099 with the IRS at the end of this calendar year. We will request your social security number and signature on this form. The form contains the amount paid to you and you will receive a copy of the form for tax purposes. STATS pays the principal team owner of each NFBC team that was submitted on the entry form and you are responsible for paying any taxes that result from your cash prize; please consult your income tax advisor for filing advice. In the event that the awarding of any prizes to winners of the Contest is challenged by any legal authority, STATS reserves the right in its sole discretion to determine whether or not to award such prizes. After 12 months, any unclaimed prize will be forfeited.

14. Ties: In the case of teams tying for prize money, the money will be split evenly between the tied teams. For example, if first and second place finishers end in a tie, we will split the total prize money of those two places between tied owners. This is the same for any of the money finishes. There are no tie-breakers involved; teams will just split the prize money.

15. Eligibility; Registration: The National Fantasy Baseball Championship Post-Season Hold ‘Em Tournament is open to individuals who are at least 18 years of age (or the age of majority in your state of residence) and are a resident of the United States of America or Canada. Notwithstanding the foregoing, residents of Washington State, Louisiana, Montana, Arizona, Iowa, and Vermont are not eligible to register or play in the NFBC. All registrations must be in the full legal name of the primary team owner, though owners will have the option to add a co-manager(s).

16. Official Rules: Registration for, and continued participation in, the National Fantasy Baseball Championship Post-Season Hold ‘Em Tournament constitutes your full and unconditional agreement to these official rules (“Official Rules”) and to STATS’ decisions relating thereto. STATS’ decisions in regards to these Official Rules and all matters pertaining to the National Fantasy Baseball Championship are final and binding.

17. Code of Conduct: All participants and co-managers are expected to behave in lawful, respectful and sportsman-like fashion in all online drafts, throughout the NFBC season, and during use of any NFBC website, including, but not limited to comments posted on any NFBC message board. Additionally the NFBC events, games and/or leagues may not be used for any form of gambling. Any conduct or message board post by a participant, co-manager or other person which is deemed by STATS, in its sole discretion, to be unlawful, or to have the effect of intimidating, harassing, offending or otherwise harming any other participant, co-manager, guest, or NFBC/STATS representative, is strictly prohibited. STATS reserves the right, in its sole discretion to ban any person from current and/or future participation in the NFBC and/or from use of the message boards if such person engages in any such prohibited conduct or is otherwise in violation of any of these Rules. In addition, any person engaging in such conduct forfeits any rights to a refund, as well as any potential rights to a prize award. STATS shall not be responsible or held liable to any person for damage to property or personal injury or death arising from the acts or omissions of any third parties. Any participants or co-managers who collude, or attempt to collude, or who attempts to blackmail, bribe or otherwise influence any representative of STATS/NFBC, or who otherwise attempts to sabotage the league, in an effort to alter the results or outcome of any NFBC game will be disqualified and will be prohibited from winning any prize award. If a participant is banned from participation in a current NFBC game, then STATS reserves the right, to take those actions which it sees fit, in its sole discretion with respect to such banned participant’s team. Any criminal behavior may be referred to the appropriate authorities.

18. Errors: The deadline for submitting any dispute or claim regarding the operation of any league draft is one hour after the conclusion of the draft itself; further, leaving any live draft event without submitting any dispute or claim regarding the draft constitutes your waiver of any right to challenge any aspect of the draft. You are strongly urged to double-check your lineups, trades, and free agent moves throughout the season, as STATS/NFBC will not be held liable for any errors in entering lineups, trades or free agent moves, and STATS/NFBC will not intervene or alter a transaction after lineups, trades or free agent moves are due.

19. Prize Splitting: Prize splitting amongst the principal registrant and co-managers is available, provided that the principal registrant has authorized payment to his co-managers in writing and in advance of the completion of the season. In order to authorize prize-splitting, the principal registrant must completely fill out and sign the authorization form designated by STATS (including the name and address of the co-manager(s) and the applicable prize percentage to be paid to each co-manager(s)). Both the principal registrant and each co-manager designated on a prize-splitting form will be required to fill out a W-9. No prize money will be distributed until all necessary forms have been received by STATS. Both the principal registrant and the co-manager(s) will receive IRS Form 1099 reflecting the prize money paid to each. If STATS deems, in its sole discretion, that the appropriate documentation and/or authorization has not been received, or has not been received in a timely fashion, then STATS will pay prize payments only to the principal registrant.

20. Communication and Access: All NFBC team owners must have internet access and a valid e-mail address for communication. STATS is not responsible for any issues which impede or interfere with the transmission or receipt of any transaction, including but not limited to, draft selections, trades, free agent moves and lineups. STATS is also not responsible for the failure of any telephone networks/lines, internet connections, software/hardware, or internet congestion/transmission rates.

21. Hold Harmless: Each participant and co-owner hereby releases and holds harmless STATS and its parents, affiliates, and subsidiaries, and their respective directors, officers, employees, agents and representatives from and against any and all liability for any injuries, losses or damages of any kind to person (including death) and property, arising in whole or in part, directly or indirectly from participation in any NFBC event, game or league, as well as acceptance or use of any prize award.

22. Disputes; Limitation of Liability; Disclaimer: Each participant and co-owner agrees that (i) all issues and questions regarding the construction, validity, interpretation and enforceability of these Official Rules, or your rights and obligations in connection with the NFBC shall be governed by, and construed in accordance with, the laws of the state of Illinois, without giving effect to any choice of law or conflict of law rules; and (ii) any and all disputes, claims and causes of action arising out of or connected with the NFBC or any prize awarded will be resolved individually, without resort to any form of class action, and exclusively by the United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, or the appropriate state court located in Cook County, Illinois; and (iii) in no event shall STATS liability to you for any and all damages, losses or causes of action exceed $250; and (iv) in no event shall STATS, its parents, affiliates, and subsidiaries, and their respective directors, officers, employees, agents and representatives, be liable for any punitive, incidental and consequential damages. If your jurisdiction does not allow limitations or exclusions of liability for incidental or consequential damages, the above may not apply to you. WITHOUT LIMITING THE FOREGOING, EACH NFBC GAME, EVENT, LEAGUE,WEBSITE, AND BULLETIN BOARD/FORUM IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. IF YOUR JURISDICTION DOES NOT ALLOW FOR THE EXCLUSION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES, THE ABOVE MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

23. Player Eligibility: Players will have their eligibility for the post-season contest based on the 2015 season. Players who qualify at multiple positions can be used at any of those positions. All decisions made by the NFBC commissioner regarding eligibility are final.

If you haven't already done so, can you run some numbers based on previous playoffs of what the scores would like like in this format.

On the surface it seems good, but the first thing that jumped out at me was because of the smaller roster and the number of pitchers here, pitching would far outscore offense in all likelihood, and although pitching is a critical component of any contest, I would hope it doesn't come out too 1 sided.

I'm also slightly concerned about saves. Being a regular on fan duel and used to their scoring, it seems to me in a 7 game series a good pitcher with most likely 2 starts would way outscore a great RP even with 4 saves. And if that pitcher gets 3 starts, he would obliterate the relief pitcher in scoring, assuming he pitched well.

gsjanoff wrote:If you haven't already done so, can you run some numbers based on previous playoffs of what the scores would like like in this format.

On the surface it seems good, but the first thing that jumped out at me was because of the smaller roster and the number of pitchers here, pitching would far outscore offense in all likelihood, and although pitching is a critical component of any contest, I would hope it doesn't come out too 1 sided.

I'm also slightly concerned about saves. Being a regular on fan duel and used to their scoring, it seems to me in a 7 game series a good pitcher with most likely 2 starts would way outscore a great RP even with 4 saves. And if that pitcher gets 3 starts, he would obliterate the relief pitcher in scoring, assuming he pitched well.

I posted this in the other thread, but will post again and will run numbers for other years shortly. As you can see from last season with Kansas City, in this short format the relievers can easily outscore the starting pitchers, but yes if you get a guy like Bumgarner who can start three times in a series and dominate then he will outscore every hitter. But the mix looks pretty even. Take a look:

In this Post-Season Contest we're all picking from the same pool of players and filling up the same required positions, but I agree that we do want a good balance of scoring between hitters and pitchers. I think this format does that, but let's look at the numbers from last post-season using this scoring format:

NFBC Post-Season Hold 'Em Contest
Hitters
1B = 1 point
2B = 2 points
3B = 3 points
HR = 4 points
RBI = 1 point
R = 1 point
BB = 1 point
SB = 2 points
HBP = 1 point
Out (calculated as at bats - hits) = -.25pt

Pitchers:
W = 4 points
Save = 4 points
ER = -1 point
SO = 1 point
IP = 1 point

Obviously the key here is picking the right players from the teams that are going to make it to the World Series and picking them on your initial roster. That's where the multipliers will add up. Last year the Giants played 17 post-season games, so Pablo Sandoval, Hunter Pence, Buster Posey and Brandon Belt played 17 games, compared to Mike Trout's 3 games and Bryce Harper's 4 games. That's a big, big key to winning this contest.

And then you need the right pitchers, too, because every post-season one pitcher seems to dominate. Last year it was Madison Bumgarner and he was the outlier in this scoring format as he finished the post-season with 4 wins, 1 Save, 52.2 IP, 45 Ks and only 6 Earned Runs. It was a performance for the ages as he earned 111.67 points in this scoring format. Nobody earned more than 65 points.

So throw him out, but let's look at the top post-season scorers from 2014:

Pitchers:
Madison Bumgarner - 111.67
Greg Holland - 53.0
Wade Davis - 41.33
Yordano Ventura - 34.33
James Shields - 32.0
Kelvin Herrera - 32.0
Santiago Casilla - 30.0
Tim Hudson - 27.0
Clayton Kershaw - 20.67

Obviously these are just total points for the entire post-season and not broken down into Rounds 1, 2 and 3 with multipliers. But you get a sense of how many points pitchers can score in the post-season as innings add up. Now let's compare that to the hitters:

Hitters:
Hunter Pence - 65.0
Eric Hosmer - 56.75
Pablo Sandoval - 50.75
Alex Gordon - 48.25
Matt Carpenter - 44.5
Mike Moustakas - 44.0
Alcides Escobar - 41.50
Brandon Belt - 38.25
Brandon Crawford - 34.5
Joe Panik - 33.0
Gregor Blanco - 32.75

That's just a quick look at the hitters, but it looks pretty solid. Again, this doesn't include any multipliers; this is just total post-season scoring for the top hitters. It seems rather balanced for the post-season contest, but I'm interested in any and all feedback.

Last year two Wild Card teams made it to the World Series, so it would have been one helluva post-season contest. It's not easy to pick the right players from the right teams, especially with that one Wild Card game in each league now in the mix. This could be fun. With roster spots now limited to 16 players for all rounds and only four players max per team in the first round there will be a LOT of options to build a winning roster.

Thoughts?

I personally didn't get to see last years playoffs as I was out of town on vacation for most of it.

Knowing Fanduels scoring, it surprises me that more pitchers didn't score better than just Madison Bumgarner. I get that multipliers can and will change the overall points, but a decent outing from an SP is a 15, and that seems pretty common amongst good pitchers, and very good pitchers routinely score 20+ and I have seen as high as 29. Typically teams that make the playoffs and advance often have very good pitching. Maybe last year, with KC advancing, that was an outlier.

A good SP who is advancing to the world series is likely to pitch 5 times and possibly 6, and most teams advancing generally have 2 guys of quality and sometimes 3 or 4.

If you compare this scoring to that of an RP, best case scenario, without multipliers, an RP is going to get 4 saves in a 7 game series for a total of 16, plus 4 innings, for 4 more, plus 12 strikeouts in a best case example for 12 more and minus zero for earned runs allowed. That comes out to 32 where an SP can easily get a 40 or more, and the RP is not likely to even get that 32 as 12 K's is pretty unrealistic.

It just seems to me at a glance, that savvy owners would gravitate towards all SP's, which absolutely could backfire, but there is just more upside on the front end, before the playoffs start.

Offense is much harder is pick anyway, and it becomes that much harder when factoring in facing good pitching.

We just need to figure out a level playing field on the front end. Mutipliers will take care of themselves.

Is this still on the radar ? Kinda looking forward to it already...

This should be a fun contest...

Okay, look for more talk about our debut NFBC Post-Season Contest in the next week. We will get this live on Registration in the next week and you'll be able to see the new software shortly after that. We are finalizing everything now on that end and it really looks great. This is going to be a lot of fun as the MLB Post-Season is WIDE OPEN!!

More details coming soon, but Rules are set, Prizes are set and now we just need to get this live on Registration and show you how you can pick your winning lineup!! Coming soon, for sure.

Cool ! Sounds great !

Just a heads up that once we open up Registration with the rosters, we'll include all players who are still eligible for the post-season. We want to do this so that you can see how easily it is to set your lineups for Week 1 and to get the conversation going on how cool this progressive scoring format can be. That being said, you'll obviously need to adjust your rosters once certain teams are eliminated from the playoffs.

By the Monday before the first Wild Card teams, hopefully the regular season will be done and only those players on playoff teams will be eligible to be picked for your post-season rosters. But early on we'll include all still eligible post-season players and will eliminate those players from the pool once their teams are eliminated. Hope that makes sense.

It's a tight time frame from when the playoff teams are finalized and when the first Wild Card games start, so it's tough to get this rolling without showing more players in the pool. But we definitely want to unveil the software soon and get this contest rolling because we have a lot of guaranteed money out there and hope to fill up this debut contest. It should be a lot of fun, for sure, since this MLB Post-Season is WIDE OPEN!!

Thanks all.

Just a heads up that we shooting for just under 400 teams in this debut NFBC Post-Season Contest. It's our first time with a post-season contest, so it's hard to judge demand, but hopefully we have a die-hard audience that likes to fill the void between the end of the MLB regular season and our first NFBC Draft Champions Leagues in November. We're looking for a strong debut.

Our NFFC Post-Season Contest uses a similar progressive scoring system and had over 820 teams this year. We gave out a $55,000 grand prize in football and will shoot for 1,000 teams this year. Hopefully baseball can grow to that level as well, but this year we just want to get off to a good start, fill it up and grow from there. Thanks all.

Here's the prize pool again, where you can turn $150 into $25,000:

$150 National Fantasy Baseball Championship Hold ‘Em Post-Season Contest
1st Place - $25,000
2nd Place - $5,000
3rd Place - $4,000
4th Place - $3,000
5th Place - $2,000
6th Place - $1,500
7th Place - $1,000
8th Place - $900
9th Place - $800
10th Place - $750
11th Place - $700
12th Place - $650
13th Place - $600
14th Place - $550
15th Place - $500

But to win you MUST pick the right players on the right teams that can make it to the World Series. That's the key. Enjoy all and thanks for helping us extend the NFBC season into November.

Good luck to everyone during this last week of the NFBC regular season, but don't forget about our debut NFBC Post-Season Contest. Entry deadline is next Tuesday night in what should be a WILD post-season. Check out the rules above. It's a very easy contest to play with moves just before the Wild Card game, the Championship Round games and the World Series. Progressive scoring throughout all three rounds.

Check out the Rules above and good luck all.

Greg I didn't see this covered in the rules, maybe indirectly but please clarify. After round 1 can we switch a player from UTL to a position or vice versa and still retain the multiplier for the next rd?

Daren E wrote:Greg I didn't see this covered in the rules, maybe indirectly but please clarify. After round 1 can we switch a player from UTL to a position or vice versa and still retain the multiplier for the next rd?

Yes. As long as you don't cut him, you are okay to switch to different positions, even for multi-position guys.