New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

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ToddZ
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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by ToddZ » Thu Nov 19, 2015 10:36 am

Greg Ambrosius wrote:
ToddZ wrote:Keep in mind DraftKings home office is in Boston

http://www.mass.gov/ago/consumer-resour ... ation/dfs/
Well, at least this is common sense regulation. You don't have to agree with it (banning 18 year olds from playing DFS even though they can go to war or vote for the President), but at least it's thought out with safeguards in place. Maybe it's a step in the right direction. It's certainly better than what the New York Attorney General did.
It's also basically a rough draft and may not be the final legislation. I don't care for the elimination of late locks and question banning NCAA (though I don't play them). I also prefer 18 to 21 as an age limit.

A step in the right direction, for sure. Let's see who, if any, play follow the leader.
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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by red mule » Sun Nov 22, 2015 7:29 pm

I have read rumblings on another message board that Citibank is declining credit card transactions involving fan duel and draft kings. If that is true and the other card companies (mostly based in New York) and payment processors (Paypal) follow suit in response to a flurry of class action suits, the end could come sooner, rather than later for DFS.

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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by Baseball Furies » Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:34 pm

At this point, the way it has been going, the end cannot come soon enough for them. As long as season long survives (which is no sure thing because of these idiots), we should all breathe a collective sigh of relief. :roll:
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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:49 am

The New York trial is tomorrow morning to see if FD and DK can get a Temporary Restraining Order in the state of New York. The arguments have already been forwarded to the judge:

http://www.legalsportsreport.com/6523/d ... ign=buffer
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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by BK METS » Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:46 pm

Greg Ambrosius wrote:The New York trial is tomorrow morning to see if FD and DK can get a Temporary Restraining Order in the state of New York. The arguments have already been forwarded to the judge:

http://www.legalsportsreport.com/6523/d ... ign=buffer
Hey Greg... this may be semantics to many, but the temporary restraining order has already been denied.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/11/16/judge-de ... nduel.html

Tomorrow is for the hearing on the preliminary injunctions by both sides. The big difference is, tomorrow, both sides will be heard. The temporary restraining order was more for an immediate emergency re-opening of DFS in New York State, blocking the AG action. That wasn't going to happen, simply because DFS is not something which is considered dire or emergency based. Tomorrow is more like a pre-trial, where they can actually throw out the case or bring it to full trial. Its a hearing. Tomorrow is very important to the future of DFS, which may be known just after Thanksgiving. The TRO meant nothing really.

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Rog
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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by Rog » Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:51 pm

As per somebody else's writing /this is what is being weighed

Battle in the Big Apple: New York Attorney General vs. DraftKings
12
By spensurf06, Last Updated 49 seconds ago

Editor’s Note: Spencer Payne is a litigation attorney in Florida following the legal developments in the DFS industry.

By now, most DFS players have heard about the New York Attorney General’s attempts to declare DFS illegal in New York. The dispute centers on whether DFS games are games of skill or chance. On November 25, a New York judge will be asked to decide. These are the arguments he will hear.

The Attorney General:

First, the AG contends that DFS games involve an element of chance “to a material degree” and thereby violate New York’s anti-gambling laws. In his Complaint to the Court, he likens a DFS lineup to a prop bet parlay wherein one can bet on a number of individual players’ in-game statistics. He also points to statement by a “CEO of one DFS company” that DFS games are like “a sports betting parlay on steroids.”

Second, the AG will argue that unlike season-long, DFS involve chance to a material degree. For support, he points to the long-term strategy involved in a competitive draft and the ability to trade, add, drop, and bench players in the event of injury, suspensions, or “other unpredictable occurrences” throughout the course of a season—all of which are allegedly absent from DFS.

Third, the AG will ask the Court to consider how other states have viewed DFS. For example, the Washing State Gambling Commission applied the same gambling laws as in New York and declared DFS illegal. He will also argue various industry leaders have publicly compared DFS to gambling. For example, he quotes DraftKings CEO, Jason Robbins, as saying in a reddit thread that DraftKings operates in the “gambling space.” He also points to a fantasy trade association presentation comparing the DFS market size to that of other forms of gambling (sports wagering, lotteries, and online poker).

Last, the AG will argue certain characteristics of DFS—quick rate of play, large bets and large payouts, and the perception of skill as a determinant of outcome—has and will lead to increased gambling addiction. In his Complaint, he cites two experts on the matter and customer inquiries to DraftKings with subjects like “Please cancel account. I have a gambling problem.”

DraftKings:

DraftKings’ overall position is that success in DFS is controlled by one’s skill in “accurately projecting the performance of individual athletes and strategically assembling individual athletes into optimal lineups given the constraints of the salary cap.” And rather than placing bets on a binary event outside their control, DFS players pay an entry fee to a contest in which they compete by selecting lineups that determine the winners and losers.

DraftKings will point to a number of factors for support. First, in 2007 a New Jersey federal court found that success of a fantasy sports team depends on the participants’ skill in selecting players. Additionally, the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act specifically exempts fantasy sports from the definition of “unlawful internet gambling.”

Second, DraftKings will argue that if season-long games are, to use the AG’s words “unquestionably legal,” DFS games should likewise be legal. DraftKings will argue that DFS games involve more skill than season-long since: (1) all players start on equal footing as opposed to randomly being assigned a draft order; (2) DFS allows players to analyze and react to more factors on a week-by-week basis (e.g., opposing defense, weather, injuries, etc.) and hone their analytical skills over the course of the season; and (3) unlike in season-long, DFS players must seek to maximize fantasy points subject to the assigned salaries and cap.

Last, DraftKings will describe two studies which resulted in the following findings: (1) 91% of DFS player profits during the 2015 MLB season were won by just 1.3% of the players; and (2) skilled players selected a higher scoring lineup than a randomly generated lineup at least 82% of the time and as high as 96% of the time depending on the sport. In fact, the AG admitted in his cease-and-desist letter that the top one percent of players win the vast majority of the winnings.

You Decide:

So, what do you think? Do any of the AG’s arguments have merit? Is there a meaningful distinction between a prop bet parlay and a DFS lineup? If so, what is it?

Is chance a material element in DFS games? If so, what constitutes the chance element? Do certain sports involve less chance than others? If so, where and how should the line be drawn?

Let us know in the comments!
About the Author

spensurf06

Spencer Payne is a litigation attorney in Florida following the legal

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KJ Duke
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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by KJ Duke » Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:33 pm

I just saw KOQ on CNBC loitering near the front of the court building. No doubt he'll be one of the first to know! :D

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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by KJ Duke » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:17 pm

No ruling today, but judge asked the question "why should DFS not be allowed, but season-long should be allowed?"
Uh-oh.

It looks like the DFSTA has successfully tied the DFS anchor to season-long, if one goes down the other could very well go down too now, at least in NY.

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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:26 pm

KJ Duke wrote:No ruling today, but judge asked the question "why should DFS not be allowed, but season-long should be allowed?"
Uh-oh.

It looks like the DFSTA has successfully tied the DFS anchor to season-long, if one goes down the other could very well go down too now, at least in NY.
The ruling should come in the next week. The judge said he'd have a ruling "very soon."

Tom and I will have Eric Fisher from SportsBusiness Journal on our show tonight at 10 pm ET to discuss the proceedings. Follow Eric on Twitter at EricFisherSBJ. He covered the proceedings very well today and will be a great guest tonight.

You knew that once the New York Attorney General said that season-long fantasy were games of skill and DFS were games of chance that the DFS lawyers would attack that argument. It's why Nevada's AG just stuck with the argument about DFS. The DFS lawyers likely proved that if one is considered legal by the AG then the other one has to be, too. Unfortunately, it might go the other way as well.

We all saw this coming and this was a big part of their case here today. What it means for season-long games, well, we'll have to see what the judge says about DFS first.
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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by King of Queens » Wed Nov 25, 2015 9:37 pm

KJ Duke wrote:I just saw KOQ on CNBC loitering near the front of the court building. No doubt he'll be one of the first to know! :D
Good eye, KJ. Here's my live blog from the hearing:

https://rotogrinders.com/threads/live-f ... 326?page=1

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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by KJ Duke » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:14 pm

King of Queens wrote:
KJ Duke wrote:I just saw KOQ on CNBC loitering near the front of the court building. No doubt he'll be one of the first to know! :D
Good eye, KJ. Here's my live blog from the hearing:

https://rotogrinders.com/threads/live-f ... 326?page=1
That was excellent Glenn.

What I got from your blog and nowhere else - the industry legal team made a lot of good arguments/distinctions that I have not heard before, and the AG sounded clueless at times clearly not having a very good understanding of the industry. I think CNBC ran 3-4 segments on this during the day and what they said was almost completely worthless by comparison. They should put you on next time.

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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by King of Queens » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:25 pm

KJ Duke wrote:
King of Queens wrote:
KJ Duke wrote:I just saw KOQ on CNBC loitering near the front of the court building. No doubt he'll be one of the first to know! :D
Good eye, KJ. Here's my live blog from the hearing:

https://rotogrinders.com/threads/live-f ... 326?page=1
That was excellent Glenn.

What I got from your blog and nowhere else - the industry legal team made a lot of good arguments/distinctions that I have not heard before, and the AG sounded clueless at times clearly not having a very good understanding of the industry. I think CNBC ran 3-4 segments on this during the day and what they said was almost completely worthless by comparison. They should put you on next time.
Thanks. There are so many people involved here -- prosecutors, lawyers, media, etc. -- that simply do NOT understand the nuances of fantasy sports. Even if I were to sit down with them at length, I still don't think they would get it.

After the break, when the discussion turned to traditional fantasy sports vs. DFS, the NY AG rep seemed completely unprepared to defend her position. It was very disheartening.

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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by poopytooth » Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:29 pm

Baseball Furies wrote:At this point, the way it has been going, the end cannot come soon enough for them. As long as season long survives (which is no sure thing because of these idiots), we should all breathe a collective sigh of relief. :roll:
Omg, finally a post from MTM that i agree with. :)

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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by KJ Duke » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:22 pm

And now we see why Florida is fighting fantasy sports.

http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/editori ... es/2256994

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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by RobG » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:54 pm

I fly at least twice a week and normally will set my DFS lineups somewhere over the US, but tonight I was not able to set a lineup on fanduel because I was in a restricted area. When I contacted customer support I learned that I must "physically be in an eligible state". What a joke.
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Outlaw
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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by Outlaw » Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:27 pm

Just log into a computer at home when in a banned state. Setup Teamviewer or something like that on your home computer- its very simple simple. Then access any site from the computers browser that is in the other state. There are other ways to do it, but Remote into a known computer is safe and quick.

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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by anpyanks » Wed Dec 09, 2015 5:56 pm

Nice job mike. Guy always thinks he knows everything.


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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by Bronx Yankees » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:11 am

Looks like FD and DK lost this round: http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/143 ... ting-state.

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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by BK METS » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:26 am

New York is already in the process of formally legalizing (and regulating) DFS in New York, despite Mendez ruling, but in the "wagering" category. So, who knows what this means for year long, but this is a precedent that likely will be followed by other states.

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ToddZ
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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by ToddZ » Fri Dec 11, 2015 4:02 pm

DK gets a three week (maybe more) stay of execution
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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:10 pm

ToddZ wrote:DK gets a three week (maybe more) stay of execution
What a wild day for DFS. It looks like Fanduel and Draft Kings can operate legally in New York through the end of December and then we'll see what the courts say next year:

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/143 ... g-new-york
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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by ToddZ » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:45 pm

Greg Ambrosius wrote:
ToddZ wrote:DK gets a three week (maybe more) stay of execution
What a wild day for DFS. It looks like Fanduel and Draft Kings can operate legally in New York through the end of December and then we'll see what the courts say next year:

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/143 ... g-new-york
And PayPal is going to continue to fund accounts. Bank of America hasn't announced if they will as well.
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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by KJ Duke » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:55 pm

Illinois now banning DFS per AG.

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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by TOXIC ASSETS » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:09 pm

KJ Duke wrote:Illinois now banning DFS per AG.
Yep. That makes 2 of the 'big 3' Liberal Paradises.... let us call them "Pablum Puking Liberal" states in honor of the late Morton Downey Jr.
Next up: California.

Your freedoms are being taken away people.

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Re: New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

Post by ToddZ » Wed Dec 23, 2015 9:21 pm

They're already working towards regulation in Illinois (before the ruling) - that'll be the end game everywhere. Just a matter of who's the leader and who's the follower.
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