New York bans FanDuel and DraftKings

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:11 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/sport ... v=top-news

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:16 pm

Glenn,

Being from NY, can you still manage your NFFC football teams and are u eligible to win prizes?

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:17 pm

So far, so good!

I'm currently using up all my FDPs on FanDuel before they lock me out.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:40 pm

And the run on the "bank" begins in 3...2...1

Baseball Furies · Post by **Baseball Furies** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:43 pm

This has been coming for a long time, and it's the beginning of the end of DFS in my opinion, and they only have themselves to blame. But they have lots of money for good lawyers, so who knows for sure.

I hope that season-long survives this fallout and we can begin to focus on playing the game this year rather than trying to save it. Someone once said, the optimist sees opportunity in every calamity, but the pessimist sees calamity in every opportunity. Hopefully Greg and Tom take the optimistic approach and see the massive opportunity that may be presenting itself here if DFS continues to implode just as long as our fearless FSTA representative doesn't do us in the meantime as well.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:47 pm

anpyanks · Post by **anpyanks** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:52 pm

Well this quote tells me seasonal is fine. "Our investigation has found that, unlike traditional fantasy sports, daily fantasy sports companies are engaged in illegal gambling under NY law, causing the same kinds of social and economic harms as other forms of illegal gambling, and misleading New York consumers."

I'm no legal expert but this sure seems ok

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:54 pm

anpyanks wrote:Well this quote tells me seasonal is fine. "Our investigation has found that, unlike traditional fantasy sports, daily fantasy sports companies are engaged in illegal gambling under NY law, causing the same kinds of social and economic harms as other forms of illegal gambling, and misleading New York consumers."

I'm no legal expert but this sure seems ok

this one too...
"Mr. Schneiderman’s order does not apply to seasonal competitions or to other companies that offer fantasy games."

TOXIC ASSETS · Post by **TOXIC ASSETS** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:58 pm

Exactly what I'd expect from a left wing cesspool like the state of NY.
Is there any aspect of anyone's life that these people don't want to control.
Absolutely sickening.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:02 pm

TOXIC ASSETS wrote:Exactly what I'd expect from a left wing cesspool like the state of NY.
Is there any aspect of anyone's life that these people don't want to control.
Absolutely sickening.

you like this comment Ken...

"what's wrong with this country that we let people buy assault rifles but won't let them wager a few bucks on a sports team or a sports player."

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:06 pm

TOXIC ASSETS wrote: Is there any aspect of anyone's life that these people don't want to control.

No, they do indeed want full control. Put down your damn sugary drink and don't even think about gambling. Just go to your shitty job, come home, go to sleep. If you need a gambling fix the NY State Lottery is there to assist you.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:13 pm

KJ Duke wrote: Just go to your shitty job, come home, go to sleep.

you forgot something duke...

Just go to your shitty job (pay taxes), come home (pay school/real estate taxes), go to sleep (no tax yet, but thinking of adding one for sleep, along with a breathing tax).

Teufel Hunden · Post by **Teufel Hunden** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:21 pm

Gekko wrote:
KJ Duke wrote: Just go to your shitty job, come home, go to sleep.
you forgot something duke...

Just go to your shitty job (pay taxes), come home (pay school/real estate taxes), go to sleep (no tax yet, but thinking of adding one for sleep, along with a breathing tax).

Pretty sure there are clean air taxes (breathing)and most cities charge room tax for hotels (sleeping). So I guess they have their sticky fingers in everything.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:27 pm

TOXIC ASSETS wrote:Exactly what I'd expect from a left wing cesspool like the state of NY.
Is there any aspect of anyone's life that these people don't want to control.
Absolutely sickening.

Arizona - red state

Louisiana - red state

Montana - red state

Nothing to do with politics. Everything to do with money.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:31 pm

Teufel Hunden wrote:
Gekko wrote:
KJ Duke wrote: Just go to your shitty job, come home, go to sleep.
you forgot something duke...

Just go to your shitty job (pay taxes), come home (pay school/real estate taxes), go to sleep (no tax yet, but thinking of adding one for sleep, along with a breathing tax).
Pretty sure there are clean air taxes (breathing)and most cities charge room tax for hotels (sleeping). So I guess they have their sticky fingers in everything.

City sewage fees and taxes have gone up about 100% in the last couple years around here, so there's that too.

Teufel Hunden · Post by **Teufel Hunden** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 6:59 pm

you forgot something duke...

Just go to your shitty job (pay taxes), come home (pay school/real estate taxes), go to sleep (no tax yet, but thinking of adding one for sleep, along with a breathing tax).[/quote]

Pretty sure there are clean air taxes (breathing)and most cities charge room tax for hotels (sleeping). So I guess they have their sticky fingers in everything.[/quote]

City sewage fees and taxes have gone up about 100% in the last couple years around here, so there's that too.[/quote]

Nevada collects a tax from legal brothels as well. Now that is a Fu**ing Tax if I have ever seen one.

robby1 · Post by **robby1** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:06 pm

Thank God we are safe from DFS and can focus on being ripped off by NY high frequency traders and hedges. Oh, but they make a lot of political contributions.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:09 pm

The best news of the day is that we FINALLY are getting a legal distinction between DFS and "traditional" fantasy sports:

===================
We believe there is a critical distinction between DFS and traditional fantasy sports, which, since their rise to popularity in the 1980s, have been enjoyed and legally played by millions of New York residents. Typically, participants in traditional fantasy sports conduct a competitive draft, compete over the course of a long season, and repeatedly adjust their teams. They play for bragging rights or side wagers, and the Internet sites that host traditional fantasy sports receive most of their revenue from administrative fees and advertising, rather than profiting principally from gambling. For those reasons among others, the legality of traditional fantasy sports has never been seriously questioned in New York.

Unlike traditional fantasy sports, the sites hosting DFS are in active and full control of the wagering: DraftKings and similar sites set the prizes, control relevant variables (such as athlete “salaries”), and profit directly from the wagering. DraftKings has clear knowledge and ongoing active supervision of the DFS wagering it offers. Moreover, unlike traditional fantasy sports, DFS is designed for instant gratification, stressing easy game play and no long-term strategy.
For these and other reasons, DFS functions in significantly different ways from sites that host traditional fantasy sports.

BK METS · Post by **BK METS** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:28 pm

King of Queens wrote:The best news of the day is that we FINALLY are getting a legal distinction between DFS and "traditional" fantasy sports:

===================
We believe there is a critical distinction between DFS and traditional fantasy sports, which, since their rise to popularity in the 1980s, have been enjoyed and legally played by millions of New York residents. Typically, participants in traditional fantasy sports conduct a competitive draft, compete over the course of a long season, and repeatedly adjust their teams. They play for bragging rights or side wagers, and the Internet sites that host traditional fantasy sports receive most of their revenue from administrative fees and advertising, rather than profiting principally from gambling. For those reasons among others, the legality of traditional fantasy sports has never been seriously questioned in New York.

Unlike traditional fantasy sports, the sites hosting DFS are in active and full control of the wagering: DraftKings and similar sites set the prizes, control relevant variables (such as athlete “salaries”), and profit directly from the wagering. DraftKings has clear knowledge and ongoing active supervision of the DFS wagering it offers. Moreover, unlike traditional fantasy sports, DFS is designed for instant gratification, stressing easy game play and no long-term strategy.
For these and other reasons, DFS functions in significantly different ways from sites that host traditional fantasy sports.

Like it or not, this is likely going to be the path of most states. DFS will soon be a game of the past, and yes, this is a clear cut distinction by New York being drawn to kill DFS and support year long fantasy. Although it's not great news, it is finally giving us year long players a boost in hopes that our game remains for the distant future. DFS killed itself. Its unfortunate. Hopefully this leads to the NFBC and other year long leagues growth. DFS can deny all it wants, it is a game of luck, shown by over 80% of its 1 million plus winners having played for less than 1 year and over 40% being actual first time players. That is a fact that is hard to support its "skill" claims. We all know the facts. Some here play DFS on a large scale and its too bad the game is being killed, now one state at a time.

TOXIC ASSETS · Post by **TOXIC ASSETS** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:14 pm

Gekko wrote:
TOXIC ASSETS wrote:Exactly what I'd expect from a left wing cesspool like the state of NY.
Is there any aspect of anyone's life that these people don't want to control.
Absolutely sickening.
you like this comment Ken...

"what's wrong with this country that we let people buy assault rifles but won't let them wager a few bucks on a sports team or a sports player."

Good one. As a libertarian, I am generally in favor of gun rights although I might draw the line at assault rifles.

Nevada also has banned but it's an obvious attempt to help out their casino's. It will return in Nevada I'm sure.

Also worried about the NY action creeping across the border here in PA. Maybe I better risk my entire fanduel account this upcoming weekend -- win and I'm out!

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:34 am

King of Queens wrote:The best news of the day is that we FINALLY are getting a legal distinction between DFS and "traditional" fantasy sports:

===================
We believe there is a critical distinction between DFS and traditional fantasy sports, which, since their rise to popularity in the 1980s, have been enjoyed and legally played by millions of New York residents. Typically, participants in traditional fantasy sports conduct a competitive draft, compete over the course of a long season, and repeatedly adjust their teams. They play for bragging rights or side wagers, and the Internet sites that host traditional fantasy sports receive most of their revenue from administrative fees and advertising, rather than profiting principally from gambling. For those reasons among others, the legality of traditional fantasy sports has never been seriously questioned in New York.

Unlike traditional fantasy sports, the sites hosting DFS are in active and full control of the wagering: DraftKings and similar sites set the prizes, control relevant variables (such as athlete “salaries”), and profit directly from the wagering. DraftKings has clear knowledge and ongoing active supervision of the DFS wagering it offers. Moreover, unlike traditional fantasy sports, DFS is designed for instant gratification, stressing easy game play and no long-term strategy.
For these and other reasons, DFS functions in significantly different ways from sites that host traditional fantasy sports.

While this seems like good news, I think it's just going to continue the debate and discussion of which form of fantasy sports is more skill based. That shouldn't be the discussion today. Both games have levels of chance and both games have levels of skill. The analysis above could have holes poked through it very easily and I'm sure the Draft Kings and Fanduel lawyers will do just that, putting both games in question.

Yeah, it looks like a good safe haven for now involving season-long games, but its legality wasn't in question for the last 35 years and shouldn't be now.

This is what happens when politics trumps common sense. Nobody asked for this in the state of New York, where 500,000 citizens play DFS. Nobody asked for his opinion on season-long fantasy games. He's grabbed the spotlight for today and made a name for himself. He's appeased his lobbyist friends. But this ruling is just the beginning as this case will reach the New York Supreme Court. It will be months before an appeal verdict is given in the state. I admire DK and FD for standing up to this guy and hopefully they will do the same thing in the other states, too. Get the popcorn because the fight is on.

76erfan · Post by **76erfan** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:38 am

So if states are cracking down on dfs, does it make sense for nfbc and nffc to affiliate with fanduel anymore?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:42 am

Greg Ambrosius wrote:Yeah, it looks like a good safe haven for now involving season-long games, but its legality wasn't in question for the last 35 years and shouldn't be now.
I admire DK and FD for standing up to this guy.

I find it hard to admire anything these two companies do when they are responsible for the legality being questioned in the first place.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:17 am

DOUGHBOYS wrote:
Greg Ambrosius wrote:Yeah, it looks like a good safe haven for now involving season-long games, but its legality wasn't in question for the last 35 years and shouldn't be now.
I admire DK and FD for standing up to this guy.

I find it hard to admire anything these two companies do when they are responsible for the legality being questioned in the first place.

That's fine Dan, but if you really think this AG is doing this to protect the citizens of New York, that he's doing this because people have asked for this, if he's doing this because there's no political gain for HIMSELF, then you're kidding yourself. Sometimes bad political decisions need to be challenged and I'm calling this a grandstanding political decision fueled by lobbyists on the GAMBLING side. He's not afraid of gambling in the state of New York, he's PROTECTING gambling in the state of New York.

Here's the misconception: States are fighting DFS right now because they are afraid that the growth of DFS is going to cut into tax revenues generated from state lotteries. There is so much revenue being generated from lotteries -- which prey on the poor in a pure chance offering (no skill) -- that states must fight off competition for this money. Unfortunately, what the uneducated AGs don't understand is that the fantasy player is NOT the lottery player. That player scratches off a card or has a computer pick their numbers for a chance of winning. Fantasy players use insight and analytical data to set their lineups and want as little chance involved as possible. These are two entirely different demographics.

They are also protecting their casinos (in Nevada) and Indian casinos in other states. Again, the DFS player is not leaving casinos for DFS. This is not the slot machine person, this is more the poker player. And don't worry, if a good DFS player wants to double down on poker in your casino he will. He's not leaving one for the other. It's idiotic to think that DFS has impacted Las Vegas casinos in the negative at all.

So again, it's cool to not admire DK or FD because they brought this on themselves. But it's okay to admire the idea that they are fighting a grandstanding AG who isn't doing what's best for his state residents. Other states are working with regulators to safeguard consumers and yet still offer these games. There are MANY ways to protect consumers and make DFS a better game (ensure prizes in escrow, eliminate scripting, limit # of entries per person, etc.). Instead, he sent out Cease & Desist letters and now is sure to be in the news during appeals for the next 6 months or more. That's B.S. and I'm glad both companies called him on it.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:21 am

Greg Ambrosius wrote:
DOUGHBOYS wrote:
Greg Ambrosius wrote:Yeah, it looks like a good safe haven for now involving season-long games, but its legality wasn't in question for the last 35 years and shouldn't be now.
I admire DK and FD for standing up to this guy.

I find it hard to admire anything these two companies do when they are responsible for the legality being questioned in the first place.
That's fine Dan, but if you really think this AG is doing this to protect the citizens of New York, that he's doing this because people have asked for this, if he's doing this because there's no political gain for HIMSELF, then you're kidding yourself. Sometimes bad political decisions need to be challenged and I'm calling this a grandstanding political decision fueled by lobbyists on the GAMBLING side. He's not afraid of gambling in the state of New York, he's PROTECTING gambling in the state of New York.

Here's the misconception: States are fighting DFS right now because they are afraid that the growth of DFS is going to cut into tax revenues generated from state lotteries. There is so much revenue being generated from lotteries -- which prey on the poor in a pure chance offering (no skill) -- that states must fight off competition for this money. Unfortunately, what the uneducated AGs don't understand is that the fantasy player is NOT the lottery player. That player scratches off a card or has a computer pick their numbers for a chance of winning. Fantasy players use insight and analytical data to set their lineups and want as little chance involved as possible. These are two entirely different demographics.

They are also protecting their casinos (in Nevada) and Indian casinos in other states. Again, the DFS player is not leaving casinos for DFS. This is not the slot machine person, this is more the poker player. And don't worry, if a good DFS player wants to double down on poker in your casino he will. He's not leaving one for the other. It's idiotic to think that DFS has impacted Las Vegas casinos in the negative at all.

So again, it's cool to not admire DK or FD because they brought this on themselves. But it's okay to admire the idea that they are fighting a grandstanding AG who isn't doing what's best for his state residents. Other states are working with regulators to safeguard consumers and yet still offer these games. There are MANY ways to protect consumers and make DFS a better game (ensure prizes in escrow, eliminate scripting, limit # of entries per person, etc.). Instead, he sent out Cease & Desist letters and now is sure to be in the news during appeals for the next 6 months or more. That's B.S. and I'm glad both companies called him on it.

Great.
I agree with you on all points. But...and it's a big BUT...
This fellow would not even be involved with fantasy sports were it not for those two compnies.

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