Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
It isn't a Sunday morning without reviewing the late night ramblings of Chad the Champ. Math was obviously not your first major. Maybe you should write a blog and then you can simultaneously piss off or pick fights with everyone on the east coast all at once. It would be much less time consuming for you and all of us.
Either way, love the scoring proposed and so will 99% of the players, once they realize it mimmicks Roto scoring as close as it can. It isn't perfect but much better than FanDuel scoring. Great job Greg and the team for introducing a awesome new game.
Also, I would keep FAAB as is, maybe move the 2nd FAAB date a little earlier if anything. But would be happy if everything stays the same as well.
Either way, love the scoring proposed and so will 99% of the players, once they realize it mimmicks Roto scoring as close as it can. It isn't perfect but much better than FanDuel scoring. Great job Greg and the team for introducing a awesome new game.
Also, I would keep FAAB as is, maybe move the 2nd FAAB date a little earlier if anything. But would be happy if everything stays the same as well.
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
I understand the reasoning for the Friday request from the players, but we're going to stick with Monday during this debut season. We lock FAAB players on Sunday at 7 am ET and if we ran FAAB on Friday at midnight players could be added throughout the night on Friday as they make their MLB debuts. That would force all Cutline owners to stay vigilant all Friday to make sure they didn't miss any last minute additions to the free agent pool. And I know we can't just set a new deadline for only Cutline leagues, so Friday causes some issues with this.KJ Duke wrote:Someone earlier suggested moving FAAB to Friday at midnight, with those players being eligible for the following week. Friday's seem less hectic, thought that was a good idea. If done on Friday that would push it back to June 10.
I think we'll also just stick with 2 FAAB periods during this debut season and not go later on the 2nd FAAB deadline. You have to remember that in the first draft you have 13 reserve spots with FAAB coming up on April 11th. If you really want a top minor-leaguer like Carlos Correa of 2015, you can certainly draft him in the 35th or 36th round and have enough room on your roster for him. There's roster management strategy here just like in the Draft Champions Leagues because in April you will have 41 spots and from June on you will have 46 spots. But if you want those top minor-leaguers who won't start in the majors, you'll have to grab them during that initial draft.
We'll learn the unique strategies here as we play this out and can discuss changes at season's end. Again, I'm convinced that we need to roll this game out, take feedback from players and just on-lookers and make it better each year. The optimal scoring format has great potential and we are committed to building it for baseball, so let's do it, find out what really works and what needs tweaking and go on from there. Maybe a year from now we'll say the scoring needs tweaking, or the number of FAAB periods need tweaking, or the roster size needs tweaking. But let's build it together.
It's easy to criticize what we're trying to do here. But until we play it out we'll never know how it relates to 5x5 scoring, or if DFS-style scoring would be better or if it is a good prep for the Main Event. Let's roll it out and find out!!
Hope this helps. Thanks all.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
- Greg Ambrosius
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
I think if someone can post the Top 100 or a sneak peak at this scoring here it would help. I'd love to see the differential between the top players as well. What the heck, let's see some facts and then discuss. Thanks to anyone who can do that here.BK METS wrote:I ran the rankings of the top 100 players in adp, separately, for pitchers and hitters. It is almost identical to 5x5 and although some don't understand it, it is as close as you can get.ToddZ wrote:The first -- except also keep in mind that you need to consider it's an RBI and a run too so it's really 14 points.DJMDJM wrote:Is HR 10 pts (6 pts + 4 pts)?
Or is HR 6 pts, and all other hits are 4 pts?
Thanks
I ran the correlation between the ranks from my projections for 5x5 roto and this points system and R=.999 so the system does what it's designed to do. I'll run pitchers in a bit.
Now if only my projections were that accurate...
The only place it will differ is, since you don't need to worry about categories, drafting for positions are more important than drafting for categories, so you will see some later round draft choices differ slightly. Not having to worry about 5x5 changes things up but that is what the points system is all about. Trying to keep the rankings as close to the NFBC scoring in regular leagues is what this new scoring does, almost perfectly. Maybe the late round, pure SB guy, is not drafted in this format.
Pitchers being able to give up 3 walks in an inning and having it be the same as a perfect inning is just one of the huge flaws in DFS scoring.
Great job by KJ and others, forming this system and to Greg for recognizing it is best for what the NFBC represents. If someone is complaining they aren't getting a point for a BB, then so be it. A walk or hbp is not a plate appearance in real baseball either.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Chad, I'm not saying this game is perfect right out of the gate but none of our games were ever perfect right out of the gate. We've had 12 years of tweaking the Main Event on everything from minimum innings pitched to position eligibility to league prizes. I expect similar tweaking with this game. I just think there is merit to running an optimal scoring league with little in-season management and the only way you can do that is with a points-style scoring system. So give us a season to run this game, tweak it and make it better because we think it's a great entry-level game for new users and a format that should also appeal to some of our veteran players.Cocktails and Dreams wrote:A few thoughts, opinions and questions.
1. It seems like there are conflicting statements on how the bidding will work in the overview section versus the roster requirement section. One place says rosters go to 41 the first period and then 46 the next. The other section says rosters go from 36 to 45 the first faab.
2. If bidding is on Monday nights, will they be eligible to be used even if they played on Monday? Not a huge fan of having to bid amounts needing to be changed based on actual results on Monday games if that is how it works. If they are not allowed to count until the next week, then I believe it would make more sense, as KJ mentioned to have the free agent period mid week. I think Thursday night would be idea, as it gives people more time to take on this project, and it will be a project. It separates it as far as possible from the Sunday free agent periods in your other leagues. KJ mentioned Friday specifically. Thursday is better as there is no lineup setting for regular leagues, and it is also further away from the Sunday regular bidding. Two completely different thought processes would be required for the two kinds of games. The more separation the better.
3. There is no way that this scoring system designed to mirror roto baseball, will do anything resembling that. This is not roto baseball. It is points baseball. Roto baseball cannot be replicated into a points system. So you have a scoring system that will be gamed. The type of offense that wins this will be asinine and will not resemble anything that remotely looks like a normal winning roto baseball team. Everyone will play by the same scoring so it doesn't matter much. But an odd system like this should not be used to try to replicate roto scoring. It is impossible. Roto baseball involves rankings in specific categories. Certain types of players are going to be insanely too valuable. It is really silly. Not awarding walks and HBP in points baseball is absurd. It is going to be absolutely comical looking at the winning offenses with this mess. I explained to Greg once already why this is horrific. He should reconsider immediately. I can already picture Mark at his computer gaming this scoring system.
4. I also wonder if way too much emphasis isn't given to offense with this. I have not spent much time trying to figure it out, but in roto baseball, pitching points are the same as hitting. At first glance, it does not seem like that will be anywhere close to being the case with this roster construction. One again, this is not roto baseball. It is points baseball. If you want pitching and hitting to be similar in scoring, the roster does not have to be the same as roto baseball.
5. Aside from the ridiculous scoring system, you are on the right track with this contest. It is so bad though, that I fear it will ruin the contest.
After all, we have a lot of cold, winter days ahead of us and some night in February someone may come home from work and want to draft a baseball team, knowing that there's little work involved in managing during the season. And we'll be there, every night of the week with our 10-team, 36-round format. In less than 3 hours that person can enjoy a night of drafting and camaraderie with 9 other guys just like him. That's the goal here.
As for your questions:
1. I fixed the one spot that was wrong. Rosters go from 36 to 41 and then finally to 46.
2. Correct, bidding is on Monday nights and folks may know some of the Monday results before rosters lock. But again this is an optimal scoring format, so there's no guarantee that one good night will even earn someone a spot in their lineup for that week. And these pickups are for the next eight weeks and even longer with the second FAAB, so I hope people aren't basing their FAAB bids on that one night because that roster spot is very, very important. But yes, that is the one fault of hosting FAAB on Monday nights, but we wanted them on a separate night from our Sunday FAABs.
3. We need points-style scoring for an optimal scoring lineup. That we all agree on. Let's see if this scoring replicates Roto enough to work for our veteran owners. Again, we can always tweak the scoring at season's end, but let's roll this out and see how it works. We've fought over the scoring long enough and now it's time to Play Ball!! We'll know soon enough if this works or not. As for anyone "gaming" this scoring system, best of luck to all.
4. Pitchers will be very valuable in this game, as they are in Roto 5x5. I have to believe that if you have a wide range of stud pitchers that you're scoring will be near the top of your league because you could have several 2-start pitchers per week without even realizing it. But again, let's run the season and tweak the scoring before next season. Assumptions do us no good; let's see results.
5. I hope your fears are incorrect. If we're one and done then it's totally my fault. It won't be my first mistake, though, that's for damn sure.
Thanks for the feedback.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Need to set my <<cough cough>> NFL DFS lineups then I'll run some numbers from 2015 season with this scoring.
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Just to be clear, it is now -1 per at bat, not -1 per out?
Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Correct, at batcroakerkane wrote:Just to be clear, it is now -1 per at bat, not -1 per out?
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Top 100 hitters from 2015 based on proposed scoring
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Top 100 pitchers from 2015 based on proposed scoring
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Pitching is going to be harder to emulate since there's so much luck involved with ERA and wins (especially ERA). Greinke and Arrieta in particular were so fortunate with respect to ERA that it's best just to consider then outliers and not try to massage the scoring so they're leaps and bounds better than the pack like last season (see 5x5 earnings). It's possible to tweak the points coefficients but I don't think it's worth it.
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Todd - Check your labeling. F-Rod is in the right slot but would've had 390 points last year.
Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
It's a vlookup thing -- pulling Fernando. Doesn't change anything big-picture wise.
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Correct. The 5x5 rankings are up for some interpretation, though. But generally on.
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Thanks to Todd for running the Cutline numbers above. That's a fantastic look at the correlation between the two games. The hitting seems as accurate as can be at 99% and the pitching is close. If there's something we need to tweak on the pitching points, let's discuss NOW. We'd like to debut this game in the next two weeks. Thanks all and thanks a lot Todd.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
I played a lot with the pitching numbers and the best you can do is get the top SP ranked close to the 5x5 rankings as well as the closers near their 5x5 ranks. The order among them is going to be different -- there's really nothing that can be done to make them correlate better. It's the nature of how skills translate into outcomes in a less reliable manner for pitchers than hitters.
But, within reason, I'm willing to run a few other proposals and post them.
But, within reason, I'm willing to run a few other proposals and post them.
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Pitching numbers are close but not as close as hitters. But, this is a much better option than the DFS scoring where no consideration of WHIP really messes up the rankings. This looks great and I wouldn't change a thing. I also ran some numbers but its on my desktop and i am away from home until after the new year. Great job Todd, Greg, and KJ. This is going to be fun. Can't wait until the drafts start.Greg Ambrosius wrote:Thanks to Todd for running the Cutline numbers above. That's a fantastic look at the correlation between the two games. The hitting seems as accurate as can be at 99% and the pitching is close. If there's something we need to tweak on the pitching points, let's discuss NOW. We'd like to debut this game in the next two weeks. Thanks all and thanks a lot Todd.
Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
As my fantasy football season came to close last night, I sat down with friends to enjoy an evening out. I could not resist ordering this beauty of a bottle of wine. If the guy were to never throw another strike in his life he will always be a hero to me!!ToddZ wrote:Pitching is going to be harder to emulate since there's so much luck involved with ERA and wins (especially ERA). Greinke and Arrieta in particular were so fortunate with respect to ERA that it's best just to consider then outliers and not try to massage the scoring so they're leaps and bounds better than the pack like last season (see 5x5 earnings). It's possible to tweak the points coefficients but I don't think it's worth it.
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Joe
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Nice Joe. Time to fill the class for another season!!Money wrote:As my fantasy football season came to close last night, I sat down with friends to enjoy an evening out. I could not resist ordering this beauty of a bottle of wine. If the guy were to never throw another strike in his life he will always be a hero to me!!ToddZ wrote:Pitching is going to be harder to emulate since there's so much luck involved with ERA and wins (especially ERA). Greinke and Arrieta in particular were so fortunate with respect to ERA that it's best just to consider then outliers and not try to massage the scoring so they're leaps and bounds better than the pack like last season (see 5x5 earnings). It's possible to tweak the points coefficients but I don't think it's worth it.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Bumping - since I know someone anxious for the scoring system to be finalized since they have some work to do once it's done...
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Yup, we are sticking with what is listed. Here you go:ToddZ wrote:Bumping - since I know someone anxious for the scoring system to be finalized since they have some work to do once it's done...
For Hitters
For Hitters
Home Run: 6 points
Stolen Base: 5 points
Hit: 4 points
Run: 2 points
RBI: 2 points
At-bat: -1 point
For Pitchers
Win: 6 points
Save: 6 points
Inning Pitched: 3 points
Strikeout: 1 point
Hit or Walk Allowed: -1 point
Earned Run Allowed: -2 points
I'm just waiting for the Cutline Championship Contest Page to go live along with Registration for this contest. Our hope is to start drafts the first week of January and to offer them every night going forward, with drafts at 7 and 9 or 10 pm ET. We'll see if there's demand for nightly drafts along with our Online Championships and DC Express Leagues. It's aggressive, but we feel like there is demand for more drafts.
Maybe I can post the Schedule of Events in advance of that here and get folks planning ahead. Thanks.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Perfect.
Will have NFBC Cutline rankings with my January 1 update.
Will have NFBC Cutline rankings with my January 1 update.
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
In football we ran a nice promotion that gave a discount to owners who bought multiple teams. We don't have it set up just yet on Registration for this Special Promo, but Tom and I will manually take off the discounts until we do. Let's do something like we did in the NFFC:
3 Cutlines for $350 ($25 off)
5 Cutlines for $575 ($50 off)
9 Cutlines for $1,000 ($125 off)
Hope that helps. We're getting closer to Draft Day for these 10-team, optimal scoring leagues with only 2 FAAB periods.
3 Cutlines for $350 ($25 off)
5 Cutlines for $575 ($50 off)
9 Cutlines for $1,000 ($125 off)
Hope that helps. We're getting closer to Draft Day for these 10-team, optimal scoring leagues with only 2 FAAB periods.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius
Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Sign me up for January 1, or whenever we're ready ... plus 8 more leagues.
Cutline League #1
1. KJ Duke
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Cutline League #1
1. KJ Duke
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3.
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Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
Greg Ambrosius wrote:Yup, we are sticking with what is listed. Here you go:ToddZ wrote:Bumping - since I know someone anxious for the scoring system to be finalized since they have some work to do once it's done...
For Hitters
For Hitters
Home Run: 6 points
Stolen Base: 5 points
Hit: 4 points
Run: 2 points
RBI: 2 points
At-bat: -1 point
For Pitchers
Win: 6 points
Save: 6 points
Inning Pitched: 3 points
Strikeout: 1 point
Hit or Walk Allowed: -1 point
Earned Run Allowed: -2 points
I'm just waiting for the Cutline Championship Contest Page to go live along with Registration for this contest. Our hope is to start drafts the first week of January and to offer them every night going forward, with drafts at 7 and 9 or 10 pm ET. We'll see if there's demand for nightly drafts along with our Online Championships and DC Express Leagues. It's aggressive, but we feel like there is demand for more drafts.
Maybe I can post the Schedule of Events in advance of that here and get folks planning ahead. Thanks.
I've been following this thread and discussion/debate on the scoring in only a overall manner, so forgive me if this has been covered.
What's the thought process in deducting/penalizing a batter for an at bat? Am I correct that a walk or HBP will not result in the -1? So someone who didn't make an appearnace at all would be more favorable than someone who went 0-3, correct?
I'm excited to try this, so I'm just trying to wrap my head around the mindset so I can understand. Its really more of a head2head scoring system, no?
Re: Win $40,000 In The 2016 NFBC Cutline Championship
The negative point for an AB is needed to reward/penalize a player's batting average.Atlas wrote: What's the thought process in deducting/penalizing a batter for an at bat? Am I correct that a walk or HBP will not result in the -1? So someone who didn't make an appearnace at all would be more favorable than someone who went 0-3, correct?
Each official AB in the stat column in minus one point. Each hit is worth 4 points. So if your player goes 1-4 in a game with no R/RBI/HR it is worth zero, about the same as an empty 1-4 day in roto.
This sets the over/under for BA at .250. Above it adds to your point total, below deducts. Last season the average NFBC team hit .265, so BA in this scoring system is slightly more rewarding than in the main event, but it's as close as we could get without dealing with fractional points.