Mazara

Daren E
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Mazara

Post by Daren E » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:41 pm

Greg you need to address the mazara situation. Once he was added to the free agent page and bids were accepted by the free agent page then it should have been a done deal that he was included in the bid process. People were placing bids on him all over the place including me. I didn't bid high enough on him for it to affect my other bids but others (see other thread) had to reduce other bids to be able to bid on mazara. That's not right. If he wasn't eligible to be picked up he shouldn't have been listed on the FA page and the site shouldn't have accepted bids on him.
Daren E
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BK METS
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Re: Mazara

Post by BK METS » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:59 pm

Daren E wrote:Greg you need to address the mazara situation. Once he was added to the free agent page and bids were accepted by the free agent page then it should have been a done deal that he was included in the bid process. People were placing bids on him all over the place including me. I didn't bid high enough on him for it to affect my other bids but others (see other thread) had to reduce other bids to be able to bid on mazara. That's not right. If he wasn't eligible to be picked up he shouldn't have been listed on the FA page and the site shouldn't have accepted bids on him.
I asked the same question in another thread and what I am seeing from the rules, although he was in many of the player pools, the same rule applies as all of the other FAAB leagues. He must have played in at least one MLB game by 7am Sunday morning, to be eligible for FAAB. That is the rule for all FAAB leagues, including Cutline. I think it might be a rule we look into getting adjusted for next year, for the cutline, especially if we are going to be keeping the FAAB on Monday, for the sole reason that he was in all of the FAAB pools by Monday evening, while the regular league FAAB on Sunday nights, didnt have him in any of the pools. That made things a bit confusing. I had him in all of my bids as well, but I dont think it should really have adjusted your bids on other players. Hopefully we get clarification for next year, by either removing him from the pools or changing the FAAB day back to Sunday.

Daren E
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Re: Mazara

Post by Daren E » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:21 pm

I agree that by the letter of the rules he was I eligible and I'm sure that will be the final decision. But then he shouldn't have been added to the player pool in Cutline leagues today and set up a lot of owners for a disadvantage. Here is why this affected bids for many owners. Say you liked mazara as your first choice and player X as 2nd choice. To have any chance of landing both you would bid 550 on mazara and 400 on player X and leave yourself 50 for other bids. But if you know mazara is Ineligible ahead of time you could have bid 600 or more on player X. Meantime in the first case another owner bids 500 on player X and now you've lost out on both. This isn't my situation but this sounds like what another owner posted on another thread and I can imagine this exact thing happened to multiple owners tonight.
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dwhite349
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Re: Mazara

Post by dwhite349 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:37 pm

It was definitely confusing to have him added and then see that no one had gotten him. Definitely changed my strategy this morning to try and get him.

lrr
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Re: Mazara

Post by lrr » Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:55 am

I only have one question. There are some really strong players in my leagues (who I'm sure will do very well) who got two top free agents and are left with a few dollars. I don't think they could have bid the way they did if they bet on Mazara and I don't believe they would have left Mazara on the table. Assuming I'm right, how did they know Mazara was ineligible. That is what interests me since I spent many hours considering how to fit Mazara into the bidding strategy. Thank you.

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Glenneration X
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Re: Mazara

Post by Glenneration X » Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:59 am

Mazara was ineligible as per the rules in place for the contest and it's clearly stated in the rules. Copied and pasted from the rules page:

The player pool is deemed closed of new free agents each Sunday of the weekly FAAB deadline at 7 AM ET and a player must have played at least 1 MLB game to be added to the pool at that time.

It was obviously and unfortunately confusing because Mazara was visible in the pool on Monday (as the NFBC likely uses the same FA pool across all their mixed leagues), but he was clearly ineligible as per the rules already in place.

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Re: Mazara

Post by lrr » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:26 am

Calling on NFBC veterans. In years past, if a player was wrongly in the FAAB pool, the ruling was he shouldn't have been in there but everyone got the same chance to bid on him so no harm no foul. Do you ever remember FAAB results being released which said a player was ineligible?

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Glenneration X
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Re: Mazara

Post by Glenneration X » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:31 am

lrr wrote:Calling on NFBC veterans. In years past, if a player was wrongly in the FAAB pool, the ruling was he shouldn't have been in there but everyone got the same chance to bid on him so no harm no foul. Do you ever remember FAAB results being released which said a player was ineligible?
Incorrect. In years past if an ineligible player was discovered after FAAB had run, the bids were reversed and the player was returned to the free agent pool.

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Re: Mazara

Post by lrr » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:37 am

Glenneration X, if you don't mind sharing. Did you bid on Mazara in the Cutline. If not, was it based solely on your interpretation of the rules? Thanks.

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Gekko
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Re: Mazara

Post by Gekko » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:49 am

lrr wrote:Calling on NFBC veterans. In years past, if a player was wrongly in the FAAB pool, the ruling was he shouldn't have been in there but everyone got the same chance to bid on him so no harm no foul. Do you ever remember FAAB results being released which said a player was ineligible?
Last weekend will venable was available on FAAB in the AL only auction even though he signed with the Phillies. The owner who picked him up had the bid reversed.

IF mazara was listed in the FAAB pool and was ineligible, that would cause me major heartburn. Obviously people are going to bid on him. If it's okay and proper protocol to list ineligible players in the FAAB pool, then why not list every player in the minors and let NFBC owners fend for themselves and see if they know who is eligible or ineligible.

So am I reading this correctly, some owners thought mazara was eligible to be picked up because he was listed in the FAAB pool. The May have placed large bids on him and shortchanged their other bids thinking they might win the big $ mazara bid. Oh boy.

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Gekko
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Re: Mazara

Post by Gekko » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:53 am

It almost sounds like the cutline owners were the "beta testers" this weekend.

1. Locked out of bidding on Sunday night
2. Mazara situation

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Glenneration X
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Re: Mazara

Post by Glenneration X » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:14 am

lrr wrote:Glenneration X, if you don't mind sharing. Did you bid on Mazara in the Cutline. If not, was it based solely on your interpretation of the rules? Thanks.
I don't mind sharing at all lrr.

I actually did bid on Mazara when I saw him in the pool, and I believe it was a competitive bid. However when the bids processed and I saw that he was not awarded, I figured that eligibility was the issue and I double checked the rules at that point.

I held myself partially accountable for not double checking the rules prior to placing my Mazara bid.

Let's face it, Mazara was only added to the pool on Monday, so everyone had to add him to our bid groups at that point knowing he was ineligible for all other leagues and contests that processed FAAB just a day earlier. Its probably a little naïve for any of us, including myself, to not have it even cross our mind that he may be ineligible for this contest as well, and to double check the rules already in place to verify one way or the other.
Last edited by Glenneration X on Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

lrr
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Re: Mazara

Post by lrr » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:26 am

Thanks Glenneration x for your response. It's an odd situation. Unlike Gekko's Venable example, Mazara's ineligibility was discovered by the NFBC before the FAAB was run. I can't believe the computer deemed him ineligible on its own without some manual intervention. So that leaves the question why there was no attempt to get him out of the pool or advise people when the error was discovered.

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Re: Mazara

Post by Glenneration X » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:28 am

lrr wrote:Thanks Glenneration x for your response. It's an odd situation. Unlike Gekko's Venable example, Mazara's ineligibility was discovered by the NFBC before the FAAB was run. I can't believe the computer deemed him ineligible on its own without some manual intervention. So that leaves the question why there was no attempt to get him out of the pool or advise people when the error was discovered.
Fair point but that's for Greg to answer.

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Re: Mazara

Post by BK METS » Tue Apr 12, 2016 6:29 am

I bid on him but it didn't change my bidding process at all. I plugged him in below Story and above White. It was just one extra guy in my list of 30 conditional bids. Greg warned us several times regarding having a lot of conditional bids. Even so, I was still left with only 3 additional players in one league. I didn't think enough into the fact that these guys picked up last night mean a lot more than the 2nd FAAB period. My fault. Either way, the Mazara thing will be corrected next year. For now, the right thing was to not allow him to be picked up.

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Re: Mazara

Post by BEF » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:40 am

Well, I'm one of those stupid owners who didn't check the rules because I saw him in the pool and assumed, because he was there, that he was eligible. And because of my big bid on him it did in fact affect my other bids, specifically it cost me Aaron Sanchez. In my (and others) defense it's not a stretch to be a bit upset about this; at the very least there should have been an email to all Cutline participants highlighting the rule and clarifying his ineligibility. I like Drew Pomeranz at $50, but I sure would have liked Sanchez for what would have been my bid of $150 better.
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Re: Mazara

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:40 am

lrr wrote:Thanks Glenneration x for your response. It's an odd situation. Unlike Gekko's Venable example, Mazara's ineligibility was discovered by the NFBC before the FAAB was run. I can't believe the computer deemed him ineligible on its own without some manual intervention. So that leaves the question why there was no attempt to get him out of the pool or advise people when the error was discovered.
You were one of many owners who alerted me to the additions of Mazara and Smith to the free agent pool and I acted immediately. I did not see that they were added before last night, but thanks for the heads up.

My explanation is here:

http://nfbcforums.stats.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18371

Again, I apologize for those two players being populated to the free agent pool when they were ineligible to be bid on.
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Re: Mazara

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Tue Apr 12, 2016 7:44 am

BEF wrote:Well, I'm one of those stupid owners who didn't check the rules because I saw him in the pool and assumed, because he was there, that he was eligible. And because of my big bid on him it did in fact affect my other bids, specifically it cost me Aaron Sanchez. In my (and others) defense it's not a stretch to be a bit upset about this; at the very least there should have been an email to all Cutline participants highlighting the rule and clarifying his ineligibility. I like Drew Pomeranz at $50, but I sure would have liked Sanchez for what would have been my bid of $150 better.
You have every right to be upset Brian. It was our mistake for adding those two players to the FAAB pool on Monday and the only recourse of alerting everyone once we took them out was to delay FAAB for another full day. It would have been the only way to send a mass email to everyone and give everyone time to adjust bids. We knew that would cause problems as well.
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lrr
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Re: Mazara

Post by lrr » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:00 am

Actually Greg, I advised you about Mallex Smith. But you didn't advise me he was ineligible so I spent 45 minutes trying to squeeze him in my bids. It never dawned on me that Mazara was ineligible. I assumed FAAB locked at 7 a.m. Monday morning. I'm stupid for not rereading the rules. If I had not bid on Mazara, I would have gotten Aaron Sanchez with the extra money. I respect your decision. But I would have delayed the FAAB 24 hours. We are talking about Mazara here, not your average player. Everyone would know about the delay because when they checked results, they would could have been advised. By the way, I still love the Cutline.

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Re: Mazara

Post by BK METS » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:20 am

I am still not getting the, "I lost out on other players" thing with regards to Mazara. Yes, he should have not been in the pool. That's for sure... but if you followed what was stressed on several occasions with regards to having a lot of conditional bids in each thread, how would you lose out on a player? Would you really change the amount of your conditional bid on Tyler White or Aaron Sanchez, for example, if you had Mazara ahead of them on the thread? I don't understand. The same money is available, whether you bid on Mazara or not.

For example, in one of my cutline leagues, here is one thread.

Trevor Story $722 - Outbid
Nomar Mazara $436 - Player is not eligible for league
Brock Holt $412 - Won (yeah a lot, but I like his flexbility)
Tyler White $286 - Conditional not needed
20 more bids various - Conditional not needed

Did the Mazara bid preclude me from getting Brock Holt? No.

For example, if you bid $800 on Mazara and you are saying that you didnt put a significant amount of additional conditional bids or additional threads, because of the perceived Mazara win, then whose fault is that? I bid $722 on Trevor Story but lost him... it didnt stop me from getting a good alternative. The total of all of my top bids for the threads were more than $1,000. A lot more. With 10 teams all trying to get 5 more players, there was no way to assume you would get anyone. Especially top guys like Mazara and Story.

I agree that Mazara should not have been in the pool, but I think nearly everyone, me included, wasn't sure on Mazara eligibility and if you didnt have a backup plan if you didnt get him, then that's an issue.

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Re: Mazara

Post by lrr » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:34 am

Bk mets, it's the second thread at issue. If I have Mazara at 700 at the top of my first string, then how much can the top bid be in the second string--300. If no Mazara second string starts higher.

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Re: Mazara

Post by Gekko » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:34 am

Alan - u are insulting people with your thinking.

The next contingent of bids would have to be lowered because if you thought u could win mazara for $800, how could it not impact the prices of your other 4 pickups. More foolish than the nite nite thread

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Re: Mazara

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:36 am

lrr wrote:Actually Greg, I advised you about Mallex Smith. But you didn't advise me he was ineligible so I spent 45 minutes trying to squeeze him in my bids. It never dawned on me that Mazara was ineligible. I assumed FAAB locked at 7 a.m. Monday morning. I'm stupid for not rereading the rules. If I had not bid on Mazara, I would have gotten Aaron Sanchez with the extra money. I respect your decision. But I would have delayed the FAAB 24 hours. We are talking about Mazara here, not your average player. Everyone would know about the delay because when they checked results, they would could have been advised. By the way, I still love the Cutline.
FAAB for all NFBC leagues lock on Sunday at 7 am ET so that you don't have to keep checking the free agent wires all day long. If we didn't do that, owners would have to be by their computers all day Sunday waiting for us to add players like Mazara and Smith before the deadline. Several years ago we agreed to lock FAAB first thing Sunday morning and be done with it. That was the case for the Cutline on Sunday, but when we reopened FAAB for all leagues on Monday those two players got repopulated in the Cutline pools. I'm sorry for that.

We could have delayed by a day, but you can imagine another set of issues that would have caused. We weren't going to make it completely right whichever way we went. Sorry.
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Re: Mazara

Post by lrr » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:37 am

Bk I read your message again. Top bid totaling more than your budget. I've never done that. I think I need to go back to the drawing board.

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Re: Mazara

Post by BK METS » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:51 am

lrr wrote:Bk I read your message again. Top bid totaling more than your budget. I've never done that. I think I need to go back to the drawing board.
It wouldnt be what I would do in regular FAAB. But with as much as 50 new players or more being picked up in FAAB, there was no way I was getting multiple top bids and if somehow I did get all of my top bids and I was not eligible for a player because I didnt have enough money, then I would get the next player in line. Not ideal, but Cutline FAAB is its own animal.

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