What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post Reply
User avatar
Greg Ambrosius
Posts: 40282
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:00 pm
Contact:

What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:48 pm

This is the first year of the industry's only optimal scoring fantasy baseball contest: The NFBC Cutline Championship. I know we're only two weeks into the season, but hopefully folks are starting to form some opinions on this contest. We want to continue to tweak this contest so that it becomes the best possible draft 'n hold contest out there for baseball enthusiasts.

So if you competed in the Cutline this year and have some opinions, please share them with us here. Let's start with

The Draft
Was 36 Rounds the right number?
Did 55 seconds per pick push you too much or did it help speed things along?
Knowing what you know now, would drafting a Cutline team in November or December be too early? (We may launch this product earlier next year, so we're looking for feedback here)

The Scoring
As you look at your weekly scores now, is there any stat category that needs tweaking?
Are we overscoring any stat category?
Is the scoring holding true to NFBC 5x5 scoring? Is that what you want from this product?

The Live Scoring and Live Standings
Is it working the way you wanted and expected?
Are you getting addicted to it yet?

The Roster Size
Was expanding rosters to 41 players in the first FAAB the right number?
Is expanding rosters to 46 players in the second FAAB the right number?
How important is FAAB in this format to winning the overall title?

Those are just some of the early questions I have. Add some of your own if you'd like. I don't expect anyone to answer them all, but cut and paste a section and provide some feedback if you can. A little of something is better feedback than nothing. And as we get some responses we can have a discussion around those new ideas.

So far I'm ecstatic by the response of the drafts and the way the software is working. We finished with 1,450 teams and those additional 15 leagues allowed us to add a little extra prize money to the overall pool. We are going to update the prizes grid to show that all 20 finalists will be receiving cash prizes in the Championship Round. That was always the hope, so that every team at that "final table" wins cash prizes. That should be a lot of fun and it should make those final three weeks a lot of fun for a lot of teams.

With a little tweaking and an earlier start, I think the NFBC Cutline Championship has great potential. We will definitely be bumping up the grand prize next year, but to what extent we're not sure just yet. That's where your feedback will help.

Thanks all and continued good luck in our Cutline Championship. Now let's see some feedback.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius

User avatar
brian4state
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:35 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by brian4state » Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:06 pm

The Live Scoring and Live Standings
Is it working the way you wanted and expected?
Are you getting addicted to it yet?
------------------------------------------------------
To me this has been the best part. I'm already hooked! as I've said on this board before my only regret is only having 1 team!

mattjb
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:00 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by mattjb » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:05 pm

I think I would have a 40 man roster, and have no expansion in the first FA period - We can still make sure we can get rid of any injured players and then increase to 45 if desired in the 2nd FA period.

Daren E
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:00 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by Daren E » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:35 pm

36 rd draft - about right.
55 second clock - a bit fast. I felt rushed for most of it.
November or December would be too early for me. Especially if you cut the roster expansion back or eliminate the first one.
Live scoring is certainly addicting. Watching it right now. However, it is much less addicting later in the week when all the weekly stats run together and I can't tell how my players are doing that day, especially the offensive players. Definitely need a toggle to switch back and forth between a daily live scoring page and a period live scoring page.
FAAB with +5 and +5 might be a little too much expansion but it's not bad. Maybe +3 and +3 or +2 and +2 would be enough.
Daren E
NFFC Charter Member
5-Time Live League Champion/Las Vegas

Rainiers
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:00 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by Rainiers » Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:54 am

Mostly really high marks. The draft: Excellent. The scoring: a really good mirror of roto. Live scoring: IT did a fantastic job of programming this, it was a difficult project with multi-position players but they did well. It would be nice to add daily reports for each team.

Here are some suggestions for minor tweaks that could make the game better:

I'd suggest shrinking the number of roster expansion slots and/or streamlining the FAAB software. As you've heard already the FAAB expansion for five players when you have multiple teams is a slow and tedious process. If you could make that more like the draft room, with drag and drop, etc. and have manual reboots instead of having to wait for a reload every entry that would triple the efficiency. If that's not in the IT budget, then cut back the expansion to 2x2; it may not be enough to protect all rosters from injuries, but so be it.

Another way to protect scoring rosters without going over 40 total players would be to score only one catcher. As it is now, with two catchers, Cutline drafters have been placing a premium on catchers of around 1-3 rounds early so as to try and get three catchers. If you cut it back to scoring just one catcher you would simultaneously be a) keeping draft shorter, b) having drafters likely drafting just two catchers which would mirror the the other NFBC games, and c) lessening the need for more than a forty man roster.
- Robert

JohnP
Posts: 627
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by JohnP » Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:09 am

I think cutline has been a huge success. Great job by all who had input. I'm hoping it drew a lot of new players to the site and perhaps many of those new players will stay with NFBC and join some of the other leagues. I drafted two teams just to try it. It's not for me. I don't like it. The initial FAAB period was a disaster - combination of the technology on the FAAB page, the wrong players being on the list, and the sheer volume of players to queue. Maybe I am just adverse to points in baseball. I like categories. I'm a roto guy. Each to his own. Kudos to NFBC for inventing a new game and I hope it is wildly successful.

TRAIN
Posts: 314
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by TRAIN » Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:24 am

What I love about the Cutline contest is not having to submit a starting lineup each week. There is nothing more frustrating than seeing one of your bench players have a great day or week and because they were on the bench you get no credit for it (even though they are on your team).

Fantasy baseball is a lot about the good chemicals your brain releases when your player hits a HR, goes 4 for 4, or Ks 10 players in a game, etc.; or the bad chemicals your brain releases when your players fail.

Last week I had Yasmany Tomas on the bench in the Rotowire contest. He hit 2 HR in a game and I was pissed that I had not started him (bad chemicals released). However, I also had him in Cutline and I knew I would get credit for his great game because all of my players are starters in Cutline (good chemicals released).

Because of this natural phenomenom that occurs in the brain, and not having to do FAAB every week, I think that as the prizes increase in Cutline, that contest is going to explode in popularity.

lrr
Posts: 170
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:30 am

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by lrr » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:42 am

I'm enjoying the Cutline very much. I think the drafts were fast enough that they could be expanded to 38 rounds. Then I would do the first FAAB to expand to 40. The FAAB period was too onerous in my opinion. If you had injured players you could still drop them and get to 40. Maybe the second FAAB could be a larger expansion. At that point I'll have a better feel for who is on my team and what I need. Or perhaps with all the stars on these teams, another expansion of 2 would be enough. Again, it would make the FAAB period easier. I'm still figuring out the value of closers on these teams. So far, closers have not really helped my teams in any meaningful way. I think a closer would need at least two saves in a period to be reflected in your points. Do saves need to be bumped up. Just a thought. Thanks.

jb1031
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by jb1031 » Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:04 pm

For me the only thing I've dislike has been the roster expansion. Having multiple teams and trying to make the proper amount of conditional bids for each one so to ensure that I get five new players was pretty time consuming. Then attempting to navigate players up and down the bids was frustrating. In the end I thought it would be easier if we just added one player every two weeks for the regular season. That way you only have to put bids on ten players.

EWeaver
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:43 am

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by EWeaver » Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:11 pm

The Draft
Was 36 Rounds the right number? No (see FAAB). Bump it up a few rounds, reduce first FAAB.
Did 55 seconds per pick push you too much or did it help speed things along? Asking a compound question this soon will get you paragraph answers. It was a good pace.
Knowing what you know now, would drafting a Cutline team in November or December be too early? (We may launch this product earlier next year, so we're looking for feedback here) Sure, I might. Probably not, though, unless it was more rounds and less FAAB to start the season.

The Scoring
As you look at your weekly scores now, is there any stat category that needs tweaking? Closers aren't worth much. You score wins, which is a loss. Don't differentiate between a 2b and triple and a single. Yeah, most of it should be changed.
Are we overscoring any stat category? Wins. Also, a HR is worth 13, which is dinosaur scoring.
Is the scoring holding true to NFBC 5x5 scoring? Is that what you want from this product? Yes (except for closers), and second question, no - you should try to evolve.

The Live Scoring and Live Standings
Is it working the way you wanted and expected? Never wanted or expected anything, so I got that. No live overall is a huge miss.
Are you getting addicted to it yet? Nope, but I definitely like the format and will play it next year.

The Roster Size
Was expanding rosters to 41 players in the first FAAB the right number? No, it was too much.
Is expanding rosters to 46 players in the second FAAB the right number? Dunno yet.
How important is FAAB in this format to winning the overall title? Too important.

User avatar
KJ Duke
Posts: 6574
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:00 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by KJ Duke » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:34 pm

Most have focused on the 2 biggest deficiencies that I see as well, Closers and roster expansion.

1. Save points definitely need to be bumped up to offset the value of two-start pitchers. This was evident even early in the draft season.

2. Roster expansion needs a fix. Whether that is no expansion or 2+2 expansion to get to 40 players, either would be a huge improvement. My initial thought on roster expansion would be that it would be used in conjunction with no drops; having both drops and expanding by 10 players makes FAAB daunting. Now that we're underway, I do prefer having the ability to drop players, so either eliminating the expansion or scaling it way back seems like the best way to go. Rostering even 36 players in a 10-team league gives the Cutline the deepest bench in the NFBC, even more so than the 50-player DCs where benches consist mainly of utility players, middle relievers and longshots ... so I'm not sure 36 won't be plenty for an 8-week run.

The other question for me is playoff season - I think that's another key topic ... we'll have to see if it feels right once we get there.

Also, on live overall scoring ... it's probably not that important right now, but hopefully that is in full swing as we get close to the end of the cutline regular season and into the playoffs.

TRAIN
Posts: 314
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by TRAIN » Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:17 am

On the Cutline TEAM STATS page when I want to see yesterday's stats and select YESTERDAY from the pulldown menu, the Points column does not show yesterday's points for each player. It shows the accumulated points for the whole Period for each player. A column needs to be added that would show just yesterday's points when I select YESTERDAY from the pulldown menu.

User avatar
Greg Ambrosius
Posts: 40282
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:30 am

TRAIN wrote:On the Cutline TEAM STATS page when I want to see yesterday's stats and select YESTERDAY from the pulldown menu, the Points column does not show yesterday's points for each player. It shows the accumulated points for the whole Period for each player. A column needs to be added that would show just yesterday's points when I select YESTERDAY from the pulldown menu.
Yes, we need to show folks yesterday's results from the Cutline Championship. That's a no-brainer to add.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius

User avatar
Greg Ambrosius
Posts: 40282
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:38 am

lrr wrote:I'm enjoying the Cutline very much. I think the drafts were fast enough that they could be expanded to 38 rounds. Then I would do the first FAAB to expand to 40. The FAAB period was too onerous in my opinion. If you had injured players you could still drop them and get to 40. Maybe the second FAAB could be a larger expansion. At that point I'll have a better feel for who is on my team and what I need. Or perhaps with all the stars on these teams, another expansion of 2 would be enough. Again, it would make the FAAB period easier. I'm still figuring out the value of closers on these teams. So far, closers have not really helped my teams in any meaningful way. I think a closer would need at least two saves in a period to be reflected in your points. Do saves need to be bumped up. Just a thought. Thanks.
Thanks for all of the responses so far everyone. They've been very helpful and in line with a lot of what I expected.

I do think that expanding the draft to 38 rounds is a strong option. That could help reduce the first FAAB. That being said, I do think a first FAAB is necessary with a slight expansion of the roster and the ability to cut previous draft picks. A player like Carter Capps was likely drafted in a lot of Cutline leagues and once he's determined to be out for the season he needs to be cut in the Cutline and replaced. So some form of roster expansion and roster tinkering should still be in play in April.

As for the final roster size, let's see how the injuries play out here and how we feel about all of this by season's end. If 46 feels way too big then we can definitely cut back the second expansion. Maybe that is just roster tinkering or maybe that's also just a 2 or 3 player expansion. I think we'll all feel the appropriate size once we go through this format one time.

As for the scoring, yeah, my initial concern was the closers and keeping them as relevant in our points system scoring as in 5x5. Let's tweak that if we need to. And as KJ says, let's get through the playoffs once to see if that format is perfect. We'll tweak anything there if needed.

As for the Live Standings, it's a much tougher process in this format than in 5x5 but we have it on the list and will figure this out. We obviously want it as the Cutline becomes more and more important, so it's something we're on but still need some time to finalize.

All good feedback. Keep it coming. Thanks all.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius

mattjb
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:00 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by mattjb » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:27 am

Interesting point on the closers - I went the other way. I thought they were being too undervalued during the drafts and went heavy on closers in my 3 leagues. I thought they would be the glue and keep a solid base of pitching points and then I would use the expansion to add as many extra starting arms as possible. I'm competitive in all 3 so far so i'll reserve judgement on the draft tactic and the scoring.

User avatar
ToddZ
Posts: 2798
Joined: Sat May 22, 2004 6:00 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by ToddZ » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:40 am

I don't think adding an extra point to closers will accomplish the intent. It will raise their projected point 30-45 points but on a week-to-week basis, that won't get them in the top-9. If a closer gets 2 or more saves, he's in. Adding one point to the weeks he gets one isn't getting it done.

The way to do it is designate SP or RP then have the best ball roster be 6SP, 2RP 1SP/RP or 5/2/2.

That said, as injuries kick in - even with roster expansion, more 1-save closers will make the final weekly cut.
2019 Mastersball Platinum

5 of the past 6 NFBC champions subscribe to Mastersball

over 1300 projections and 500 player profiles
Standings and Roster Tracker perfect for DC and cutline leagues

Subscribe HERE

User avatar
KJ Duke
Posts: 6574
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:00 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by KJ Duke » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:57 am

ToddZ wrote:I don't think adding an extra point to closers will accomplish the intent. It will raise their projected point 30-45 points but on a week-to-week basis, that won't get them in the top-9. If a closer gets 2 or more saves, he's in. Adding one point to the weeks he gets one isn't getting it done.

The way to do it is designate SP or RP then have the best ball roster be 6SP, 2RP 1SP/RP or 5/2/2.

That said, as injuries kick in - even with roster expansion, more 1-save closers will make the final weekly cut.
I was thinking +2 or +3 for saves, but we can take a look at RP contributions at season's end to see what lines up best with 5x5. Designated SP/RP could work too if STATS begins to distinguish the player pool, but it would take away from strategic choices so I'd probably lean toward just pricing them correctly.

BEF
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:00 pm
Location: New City, NY

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by BEF » Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:35 pm

Greg Ambrosius wrote: I do think that expanding the draft to 38 rounds is a strong option. That could help reduce the first FAAB. That being said, I do think a first FAAB is necessary with a slight expansion of the roster and the ability to cut previous draft picks. A player like Carter Capps was likely drafted in a lot of Cutline leagues and once he's determined to be out for the season he needs to be cut in the Cutline and replaced. So some form of roster expansion and roster tinkering should still be in play in April.
If the idea is to start Cutline drafts even earlier (Nov/Dec) then it's vital that the first FAAB be after the first week of games. Guys drafted in November then have four+ months for bad things to happen...injuries, demotions, loss of playing time due to free agency signings, etc...). I thought the expansion of 36 to 41 was about right, although I wouldn't squawk if it went 38 +2.

As for the second draft, you should also consider that some of the better prospects might not get called up until the Super II deadline passes, the date of which of course changes every year. But most often it's the early part of June, and with our next draft on June 5th there's a chance that some good players will get called up a day or two after the FAAB draft and thus be ineligible for the rest of the season. Some of these players could make an impact; last year's June callups included Francisco Lindor, Joe Ross, CJ Cron, Vincent Velasquez and of course the big one, Carlos Correa. So for next year you might want to consider having FAAB II in mid-June instead of early June.
"There is but one game and that game is baseball." – John McGraw

User avatar
Motorboat Jones
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:00 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by Motorboat Jones » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:25 pm

Daren E wrote:Live scoring is certainly addicting. Watching it right now. However, it is much less addicting later in the week when all the weekly stats run together and I can't tell how my players are doing that day, especially the offensive players. Definitely need a toggle to switch back and forth between a daily live scoring page and a period live scoring page.
Totally agree with the weekly vs. daily stats toggle. That would be really good.

Also, I wish there were LIVE Overall standings for Cutline.

Overall, I like it better than Online Championship. Just fun to see how ALL of your players do, and lineup decisions are not as relevant. Makes the overall drafting depth and strategy very critical.

User avatar
Yah Mule
Posts: 1289
Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:12 am
Location: Greeley, CO

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by Yah Mule » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:30 pm

KJ Duke wrote:
ToddZ wrote:I don't think adding an extra point to closers will accomplish the intent. It will raise their projected point 30-45 points but on a week-to-week basis, that won't get them in the top-9. If a closer gets 2 or more saves, he's in. Adding one point to the weeks he gets one isn't getting it done.

The way to do it is designate SP or RP then have the best ball roster be 6SP, 2RP 1SP/RP or 5/2/2.

That said, as injuries kick in - even with roster expansion, more 1-save closers will make the final weekly cut.
I was thinking +2 or +3 for saves, but we can take a look at RP contributions at season's end to see what lines up best with 5x5. Designated SP/RP could work too if STATS begins to distinguish the player pool, but it would take away from strategic choices so I'd probably lean toward just pricing them correctly.
I agree they should just be valued more accurately. Designating pitchers will wind up with a few guys getting drafted as relievers and then finding their way into a rotation (especially if we're going to begin drafting earlier), which can turn an average starter into the top scoring RP.

User avatar
EA Sports
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:00 pm
Location: Loveland, OH

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by EA Sports » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:57 am

My 2 cents

1. 39 round draft
2. Add 3 roster spots after week 1 and add 3 more spots in mid June
3. Saves worth 2 more points
4. Overall Live Scoring
5. Daily stats tab
6. Notice on all league pages when players in the player pool are not eligible for FAAB bidding

Best ball is here to stay. Great idea fellas!

Eric
"Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win" - Bobby Knight

Steel Lugnuts
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:52 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by Steel Lugnuts » Fri Apr 22, 2016 9:08 pm

I'm not really getting the complaints about the rosters being too big...with this being best ball format, the more players the merrier!

And definitely need to add 2 or 3 pts for saves, not only would this make more RP drafted, it would leave more SP available to be drafted or picked up via FA.

Rainiers
Posts: 443
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:00 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by Rainiers » Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:19 am

Just a quick question on position eligibility in cutline, once a player hits ten games at a new position, do his stats count that week at the new position, or does he have to wait for the next week?
- Robert

User avatar
Greg Ambrosius
Posts: 40282
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:00 pm
Contact:

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:26 pm

Rainiers wrote:Just a quick question on position eligibility in cutline, once a player hits ten games at a new position, do his stats count that week at the new position, or does he have to wait for the next week?
It counts this week if he qualifies by Sunday
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius

FrozenTundra
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:50 pm

Re: What's The Early Feedback On The NFBC Cutline?

Post by FrozenTundra » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:10 pm

The Draft - Going in, I was very concerned with the 55-second limit, especially since I was on the wheel. As it turned out, I had no problem and enjoyed it so much that I drafted a second team two nights later :D Having not played in a points league previously, I did like the challenge of devising a strategy for this event. 36 players is a good number, as it allows for a reasonable number of back-ups at each position. I would have no interest in drafting any team in Nov-Dec.

The Scoring - I think this will be easier to answer after the season plays out and we see the results.
Live Scoring - Contrary to many players, I don't bother with live scoring until the last week of the season and I am in contention. So, if my teams stay hot I sure hope you have it fully functional by the first cutline :lol:

Roster Size - 41 is good; will be interesting to see if going to 46 is a good number. As for FAAB, I think it's essential to keep the first FAAB period where it is. This allows us to analyze our rosters and fill whatever holes we may have after the draft. It also allows us to respond to the late MLB roster moves/decisions that occur as the season begins. I also think 5 players for the FAAB is good; I would not like to see a lower number. I didn't have a problem with entering players, except that I had way more than I needed; it's a learning experience. I would guess that the winning team will have benefited from a player(s) picked up in the FAAB periods.

Finally, while it helps that my teams are doing well, I am enjoying the cutline for a couple of unexpected reasons. One is that I don't have to try to remember if a pitcher who just threw a shutout is on my active roster. And best of all, when Shane Greene gets blown up, I know that he didn't kill my cutline team!!

Post Reply