Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

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Edwards Kings
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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Edwards Kings » Tue May 03, 2016 6:54 am

KJ Duke wrote:Wayne, good post overall but I do not like it when anyone says "WE" voted for this or that or who, because WE suggests all-inclusive. I did not/would note for any of those contenders. My vote is likely to go to Jon Huntsman or Gary Johnson as in the last election cycle, so don't lump me into the mass-market manipulated WE voted for them!!!

However, for anyone that buys into the argument of "vote for the lesser evil" or explicitly supports one of the two National Parties, they are sadly buying into the propaganda and are in fact part of the WE problem that has gotten us to this regrettable point.
I am glad the central theme was received well. As I mentioned, I know individually choices are made and can appreciate your position, especially your last point. The issues and problems ARE all-inclusive and no one can simply say "I didn't vote for that loser, so it is not my fault."

I did use "WE" intentionally as in...

Image

We are divided so radically that until that divide is at least marginally rectified and we get back to being more "we are all in this together", we will continue down this rather dangerous path.
Baseball is a slow, boring, complex, cerebral game that doesn't lend itself to histrionics. You 'take in' a baseball game, something odd to say about a football or basketball game, with the clock running and the bodies flying.
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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by headhunters » Tue May 03, 2016 11:08 am

wayne- keep in mind when the great "we the people" was written- blacks were not considered people and women were - but sorta like they are considered people in brazil columbia and the middle east. so the great "we the people" just doesn't seem all that great to me. carry on.

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Yah Mule » Tue May 03, 2016 11:19 am

Driver Love wrote:
Gekko wrote:and here it comes...

"About 273,000 union workers and retirees are about to learn the fate of their pensions. The struggling Central States Pension Fund is in such bad shape that it's seeking government approval to cut benefits -- and the ruling is expected to come this week. It would be the first time the government green-lights pension cuts under a new law giving the Treasury Department authority to approve, or reject, cuts proposed by a multi-employer, private fund as a way to head off insolvency."

RECAP: "first time"; "new law"; government; "pension cuts". Put the pieces together

http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/02/retirem ... index.html
Gekko,

It is ok.. nothing to worry about. things always just work out. They always have in America. Obviously I am being sarcastic and calling into question those who have the mindset that "hey, we have always faced challenges and we always end up getting through them..." No one is saying the current challenges or those on the horizon are not things we will find a way to get through. The question is will we get through them while keeping the greatness of America in tact or is America going to have to be molded into something new. There are serious challenges that are in plain sight as far as I am concerned. watching people who are so bathed in American prosperity that they sort of ignore these problems always amazes me. Aside from the points Gekko brought up in the manifesto, I have great worries about where we are spiraling culturally. Even watching Trump supporters yesterday (and I am a conservative) and how they treated, attacked, mocked Cruz on the campaign trail disturbed me. There is a loss of civility and humanity going on that is sad to watch.
Yesterday was the first time you noticed a lack of civility from Trump supporters?

This is my favorite post on this thread.

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by KJ Duke » Tue May 03, 2016 11:56 am

Edwards Kings wrote:The issues and problems ARE all-inclusive and no one can simply say "I didn't vote for that loser, so it is not my fault."

We are divided so radically that until that divide is at least marginally rectified and we get back to being more "we are all in this together", we will continue down this rather dangerous path.
Disagree, a lot of people can say "it isn't my fault", too bad even more can't say that.

Secondly, organizations can become too big to function. We are there. The best course of action is to actually divide. I've seen various plans, but it's time to break it up and downsize like a good corporate raider.

CA is big enough to be it's own state, and probably two. I've seen plans for combining the States into at least 6 separate countries. The time has come for a looser EU-type union. The corporate world has figured out how well decentralization and spin-offs work, the government has not.

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Edwards Kings » Tue May 03, 2016 12:00 pm

headhunters wrote:wayne- keep in mind when the great "we the people" was written- blacks were not considered people and women were - but sorta like they are considered people in brazil columbia and the middle east. so the great "we the people" just doesn't seem all that great to me. carry on.

True, but since you are going back to how things were in 18th century (women and children treated as chattel, slavery, et al), please also remember that "We the People..." and the republican form of government it implied had not been a viable form of government anywhere on earth since certain city states in ancient Greece.

Forgive them if they did not go far enough, but they went radically far for the times and provided fertile ground so we could advance further if we wanted to.

Different strokes, but it does mean a great deal to me. 8-)
Last edited by Edwards Kings on Tue May 03, 2016 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Baseball is a slow, boring, complex, cerebral game that doesn't lend itself to histrionics. You 'take in' a baseball game, something odd to say about a football or basketball game, with the clock running and the bodies flying.
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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Edwards Kings » Tue May 03, 2016 12:07 pm

KJ Duke wrote:
Edwards Kings wrote:The issues and problems ARE all-inclusive and no one can simply say "I didn't vote for that loser, so it is not my fault."

We are divided so radically that until that divide is at least marginally rectified and we get back to being more "we are all in this together", we will continue down this rather dangerous path.
Disagree, a lot of people can say "it isn't my fault", too bad even more can't say that.

Secondly, organizations can become too big to function. We are there. The best course of action is to actually divide. I've seen various plans, but it's time to break it up and downsize like a good corporate raider.

CA is big enough to be it's own state, and probably two. I've seen plans for combining the States into at least 6 separate countries. The time has come for a looser EU-type union. The corporate world has figured out how well decentralization and spin-offs work, the government has not.

Can't agree there. Speaking from my own personal experiences in companies large and small, corporations centralize and decentralize (or consolidate or fracture) as a matter of repeating cycles. Generally seems to me more as an accepted norm/strategy and as a way to avoid hard steps/improvements that would lead to actual improvements.

"I was to learn later in life that, perhaps because we are so good at organizing, we tend as a nation to meet any new situation by reorganizing; and a wonderful method it can be for creating the illusion of progress while producing confusion, inefficiency, and demoralization."

Charlton Ogburn Jr.
Baseball is a slow, boring, complex, cerebral game that doesn't lend itself to histrionics. You 'take in' a baseball game, something odd to say about a football or basketball game, with the clock running and the bodies flying.
Charles Krauthammer

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Edwards Kings » Tue May 03, 2016 12:13 pm

Oh, however I will say California as two states does make sense. And let Hawaii be an independent nation. The remaining territories too (American Samoa, Guam, Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, U.S. Virgin Islands).

Slightly hypocritical to my prior post, but opinions, like life, are always subject to a degree of variability. ;)
Baseball is a slow, boring, complex, cerebral game that doesn't lend itself to histrionics. You 'take in' a baseball game, something odd to say about a football or basketball game, with the clock running and the bodies flying.
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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Tue May 03, 2016 12:22 pm

California IS two states. Anybody that has been to southern and northern California already knows that.
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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Yah Mule » Tue May 03, 2016 1:16 pm

Interesting article about the many efforts to bisect or trisect the state that began roughly a year after California was officially admitted to the United States.

http://alumni.berkeley.edu/california-m ... -200-times

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Driver Love » Tue May 03, 2016 2:35 pm

Yah Mule wrote:
Driver Love wrote:
Gekko wrote:and here it comes...

"About 273,000 union workers and retirees are about to learn the fate of their pensions. The struggling Central States Pension Fund is in such bad shape that it's seeking government approval to cut benefits -- and the ruling is expected to come this week. It would be the first time the government green-lights pension cuts under a new law giving the Treasury Department authority to approve, or reject, cuts proposed by a multi-employer, private fund as a way to head off insolvency."

RECAP: "first time"; "new law"; government; "pension cuts". Put the pieces together

http://money.cnn.com/2016/05/02/retirem ... index.html
Gekko,

It is ok.. nothing to worry about. things always just work out. They always have in America. Obviously I am being sarcastic and calling into question those who have the mindset that "hey, we have always faced challenges and we always end up getting through them..." No one is saying the current challenges or those on the horizon are not things we will find a way to get through. The question is will we get through them while keeping the greatness of America in tact or is America going to have to be molded into something new. There are serious challenges that are in plain sight as far as I am concerned. watching people who are so bathed in American prosperity that they sort of ignore these problems always amazes me. Aside from the points Gekko brought up in the manifesto, I have great worries about where we are spiraling culturally. Even watching Trump supporters yesterday (and I am a conservative) and how they treated, attacked, mocked Cruz on the campaign trail disturbed me. There is a loss of civility and humanity going on that is sad to watch.
Yesterday was the first time you noticed a lack of civility from Trump supporters?

This is my favorite post on this thread.
Ya mule,

If yesterday I said "wow, I hate that is rained today... that really sucked..." would you somehow interpret that as meaning yesterday was the first time I ever noticed rain? Certain things people say baffle me. It is almost like they want to be contradictory so bad that they don't read what they write. I have butted heads with Trump supporters for the better part of 6 months. So no, yesterday was not the first time I saw disgraceful behavior from Trump supporters. How you thought implying that made sense and then saying because of it this was your favorite post on the thread (Ie, you needed to mock) defies logic.

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by BK METS » Tue May 03, 2016 3:45 pm

My view of the political race...

I have found that Trump supporters are very similar to Trump... they say whatever they want, they dont care what people think, and don't find it offensive to offend someone. I think you will find idiots that follow each of the candidates. Trump has a unique following of mostly people angry with the political crap. I am not one who supports him, but I will say that his platform would be great if he was a little less of an idiot.

Cruz is a politician and not a liked one, at that. He is so far to the right that his voters really fit into one group. That doesn't bode well for him.

Sanders is a likable good guy with ideas of changing America in such an extreme way that he has found most of his supporters in young and naive Americans, not realizing his ideas are Socialistic... if they even know what that means. His followers even crazier than Trump's, and much more aggressive in their ways of showing it.

Then there is Hillary. (throwing up in my mouth)


Since I am a conservative, I would probably vote for Cruz, but he will not win the nomination. I cannot stand Trump, but if he is running against Hillary, I will have no choice but to vote against her, if there are no other options.

Personally, was hoping for Dan Kenyon to run for president... with Gekko as his running mate... now those are two guys that would change things.... :D

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Driver Love » Tue May 03, 2016 4:07 pm

BK METS wrote:My view of the political race...

I have found that Trump supporters are very similar to Trump... they say whatever they want, they dont care what people think, and don't find it offensive to offend someone. I think you will find idiots that follow each of the candidates. Trump has a unique following of mostly people angry with the political crap. I am not one who supports him, but I will say that his platform would be great if he was a little less of an idiot.

Cruz is a politician and not a liked one, at that. He is so far to the right that his voters really fit into one group. That doesn't bode well for him.

Sanders is a likable good guy with ideas of changing America in such an extreme way that he has found most of his supporters in young and naive Americans, not realizing his ideas are Socialistic... if they even know what that means. His followers even crazier than Trump's, and much more aggressive in their ways of showing it.

Then there is Hillary. (throwing up in my mouth)


Since I am a conservative, I would probably vote for Cruz, but he will not win the nomination. I cannot stand Trump, but if he is running against Hillary, I will have no choice but to vote against her, if there are no other options.

Personally, was hoping for Dan Kenyon to run for president... with Gekko as his running mate... now those are two guys that would change things.... :D
BK Mets,

This post really aligns with how I feel. I am a conservative who thinks the country is off the rails and would be best served by a return to conservatism. Trump, to me, is a buffoon who is in over his head and almost seems like a guy who ran for president out of vanity and can't believe his candidacy exploded how it did. I think a large number of people support him simply due to his celebrity and how his bombastic style meshes with their anger at how the country is changing into something unrecognizable. He is a brutally bad communicator and due to that he ends up being divisive and after that last 8 years of a divisive POTUS I don't think we need another divisive character. I would still vote for him over Hillary in a heart beat and hope Trump surrounds self with high level people who can reign him in and polish him some. I will hold out hope that given his ego he will work hard to accomplish some of the conservative platforms he has run on (securing border, strengthening military, taking care of vets/cops, protecting us from terrorism, improving trade/economy) knowing his legacy will be riding on it. He will be attacked like no one we have ever seen during the general and the professional protesters who live to play the aggrieved victim will make ugly scenes a norm.

I think Cruz is the best guy for the job but he is so stiff and rigid there is no way he can win. The fact everyone hates him within the govt is proof he is the REAL outsider and the REAL non establishment guy. The establishment begrudgingly has come around to him recently as a desperate attempt to stop Trump. He is actually a brilliant man and can be charming and funny.. but that side of him doesn't come out enough and his communication style in an interview can be somewhat combatant and scripted (oddly enough that is what Rubio was hammered for) and I think it can turn people off. But on paper, I think he is by far the best candidate to lead this country to a better place.

Sanders is a likable guy and I believe HE BELIEVES what he spews. So in a strange way, I respect that (even if I totally disagree with his vision for America). It is sad to see how he has fueled a generation of parasites who buy into the entitlement mentality and the "lets not work hard and just have this magical 1% subsidize all the things we need or want!" approach to life.

I go back to a post I made earlier in this thread. The political landscape and culture is so toxic I think our very best leaders and minds don't want to have any part of it.. and we end up with the group we have now.

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by NorCalAtlFan » Tue May 03, 2016 4:53 pm

Hillary 16. If it ain't broke, don't fix it

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by BEF » Tue May 03, 2016 5:10 pm

BK METS wrote:...and after that last 8 years of a divisive POTUS I don't think we need another divisive character.
POTUS is the divisive element? Really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-A09a_gHJc
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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Driver Love » Tue May 03, 2016 5:28 pm

Bef,

Lots of people are divisive so no need to post youtube videos. Mcconnell is a clown. If you can't see the Obama admin has been a staggeringly divisive we will agree to disagree. Race relations now are worse than at any point I can recall in my lifetime, much of that has been fueled by him. Cop hatred, media dishonesty and vitriol, the massive growth in the grievance industry where it is now acceptable to be offended by everything and blame anyone and everything (aside from yourself) for ones circumstance in life. This administration has gone around the world apologizing for America and at times has knocked America as being unjust and unfair (see Mrs Obama's speech at Tuskegee). It has been a national disgrace in my opinion.

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Edwards Kings » Tue May 03, 2016 5:33 pm

NorCalAtlFan wrote:Hillary 16. If it ain't broke, don't fix it

It is and we are.
Baseball is a slow, boring, complex, cerebral game that doesn't lend itself to histrionics. You 'take in' a baseball game, something odd to say about a football or basketball game, with the clock running and the bodies flying.
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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by NorCalAtlFan » Tue May 03, 2016 5:39 pm

Simpleton. Expect nothing less from a lose braves fan

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by BEF » Tue May 03, 2016 6:06 pm

Driver Love wrote:Bef,

Lots of people are divisive so no need to post youtube videos. Mcconnell is a clown. If you can't see the Obama admin has been a staggeringly divisive we will agree to disagree. Race relations now are worse than at any point I can recall in my lifetime, much of that has been fueled by him. Cop hatred, media dishonesty and vitriol, the massive growth in the grievance industry where it is now acceptable to be offended by everything and blame anyone and everything (aside from yourself) for ones circumstance in life. This administration has gone around the world apologizing for America and at times has knocked America as being unjust and unfair (see Mrs Obama's speech at Tuskegee). It has been a national disgrace in my opinion.
Well, we certainly don't see things the same way, but I very much respect you for the civility of the simple "agree to disagree" statement. I wish that could be found elsewhere in politics today, but it appears that ship has unfortunately left the dock.
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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Yah Mule » Tue May 03, 2016 6:44 pm

People read what they want to read, Driver. Like when I said what you call political correctness is usually just some corporation protecting their capitalist endeavor by responding to consumer complaints. You interpreted that as an attack on capitalism. That's not a criticism of the system, just an observation about how it operates. Alienating consumers is bad for business.

And it's not just Trump supporters who hate Cruz. The Speaker of the House, who was run out of Washington on a rail by extremist conservatives said Cruz was a "miserable son of a bitch" and "Lucifer in the flesh". Lindsey Graham said you could kill him on the floor of the Senate and never get convicted. So, there's your civility. They're right, too. Cruz had earned all the hatred of his peers by being a selfish grandstander.

So, yeah, complaining about some Trump supporter giving a Cruz a hard time seems weird when Trump supporters have been running up and chonging people in the head with sucker punches and body slamming reporters who stray from their designated media pen.

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Yah Mule » Tue May 03, 2016 6:50 pm

Driver Love wrote:Bef,

Lots of people are divisive so no need to post youtube videos. Mcconnell is a clown. If you can't see the Obama admin has been a staggeringly divisive we will agree to disagree. Race relations now are worse than at any point I can recall in my lifetime, much of that has been fueled by him. Cop hatred, media dishonesty and vitriol, the massive growth in the grievance industry where it is now acceptable to be offended by everything and blame anyone and everything (aside from yourself) for ones circumstance in life. This administration has gone around the world apologizing for America and at times has knocked America as being unjust and unfair (see Mrs Obama's speech at Tuskegee). It has been a national disgrace in my opinion.
Ronald Reagan announced his campaign for President in Philadelphia, Mississippi. 16 years after three civil rights workers were murdered there and local authorities covered it up. That was no coincidence. We'll definitely agree to disagree about who wants a divided nation.

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Driver Love » Tue May 03, 2016 8:00 pm

Yah Mule wrote:People read what they want to read, Driver. Like when I said what you call political correctness is usually just some corporation protecting their capitalist endeavor by responding to consumer complaints. You interpreted that as an attack on capitalism. That's not a criticism of the system, just an observation about how it operates. Alienating consumers is bad for business.

And it's not just Trump supporters who hate Cruz. The Speaker of the House, who was run out of Washington on a rail by extremist conservatives said Cruz was a "miserable son of a bitch" and "Lucifer in the flesh". Lindsey Graham said you could kill him on the floor of the Senate and never get convicted. So, there's your civility. They're right, too. Cruz had earned all the hatred of his peers by being a selfish grandstander.

So, yeah, complaining about some Trump supporter giving a Cruz a hard time seems weird when Trump supporters have been running up and chonging people in the head with sucker punches and body slamming reporters who stray from their designated media pen.
You are right, people read what they want to. Like when you took my rather innocuous statement about how disgusting the treatment of Cruz was by some Trump supporters as me somehow not ever noticing disgraceful Trump supporter behavior in the past. As for Cruz and his popularity. I just got done talking about how no one likes him in Washington so you are repeating what I said already in a previous post. Maybe he is a grand-stander. Maybe he is someone who stands up to the career politicians and challenges them. Referencing (not complaining) disgusting Trump supporter behavior to support my point that in America we are losing our civility and humanity isn't weird at all. It was a 100% logical point made in perfect context. You took that point and ran off on a tangent.

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by Driver Love » Tue May 03, 2016 8:02 pm

Yah Mule wrote:
Driver Love wrote:Bef,

Lots of people are divisive so no need to post youtube videos. Mcconnell is a clown. If you can't see the Obama admin has been a staggeringly divisive we will agree to disagree. Race relations now are worse than at any point I can recall in my lifetime, much of that has been fueled by him. Cop hatred, media dishonesty and vitriol, the massive growth in the grievance industry where it is now acceptable to be offended by everything and blame anyone and everything (aside from yourself) for ones circumstance in life. This administration has gone around the world apologizing for America and at times has knocked America as being unjust and unfair (see Mrs Obama's speech at Tuskegee). It has been a national disgrace in my opinion.
Ronald Reagan announced his campaign for President in Philadelphia, Mississippi. 16 years after three civil rights workers were murdered there and local authorities covered it up. That was no coincidence. We'll definitely agree to disagree about who wants a divided nation.
Ya mule,

Presidential historians give resounding high marks to the Reagan presidency and specifically how it unified a fractured nation. Trying to use Reagan as an example of a divisive president is funny.

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by NorCalAtlFan » Tue May 03, 2016 8:19 pm

can you cite these historians please.

in my history classes, whenever reagan came up, the discussion was split on him pretty evenly. which isn't surprising in CA.

thank you in advance

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by BK METS » Tue May 03, 2016 9:01 pm

BEF wrote:
BK METS wrote:...and after that last 8 years of a divisive POTUS I don't think we need another divisive character.
POTUS is the divisive element? Really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-A09a_gHJc
BEF - might want to quote the proper person. I didn't write that, though the statement is not far off from how I feel... :roll:

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Re: Free speech be damned --- Curt Schilling fired

Post by BK METS » Tue May 03, 2016 9:09 pm

NorCalAtlFan wrote:Hillary 16. If it ain't broke, don't fix it
This has got to be the funniest line in the entire thread... thanks!!! ... :lol: :lol:

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