Cutline Daily Points

[TRAIN]

There needs to be a better explanation of how the Cutline daily points are calculated.

I received my daily email report from Stats this morning that detailed how my team did yesterday. It told me that my players accumulated 141 points yesterday. Then I go to the Cutline Overall Standings and I see that my team accumulated only 118 points yesterday.

After the message board discussion yesterday with KJ Duke and Todd Zola, I kind of understand that daily point totals are not the same as optimal point totals.

However, there is no explanation of how optimal points are calculated daily in the Cutline Rules.

To add to the confusion, the daily point totals in the daily emails from Stats do not match what we see in the Cutline Overall Standings daily point gain for our teams.

What is the sense of having daily point gains in the Overall and League Standings when there is either no way, or a super complicated way, to verify the accuracy of them?

I believe there is great wisdom in the old saying "Trust - But Verify".

To me, the Cutline contest is a lot of fun to play and has explosive growth potential once the prizes increase. However, there needs to be way better customer service responses to some of the concerns and suggestions of the current Cutline players.

[ToddZ]

However, there is no explanation of how optimal points are calculated daily in the Cutline Rules.

The quality control is actually quite simple. As I suggested in the other thread, simple

On Sunday night, after the last game is finished

1. Verify the points are calculated properly for all the players
2. Verify the highest scoring 23 players are in the active lineup

All the daily stuff is fluff -- and moot. Players, especially pitchers, can contribute to THAT DAY'S top-23 and not be one of the top-23 come week's end.

If a pitcher has 10 points coming into Sunday with the lowest scoring active pitcher to that point scoring 16, if the 10-point pitcher scores at least 7 points, he'll bump the 16-point guy from your best ball lineup. Let's say he scores exactly 7. The net for your team is +1 but he contributed 7 points that day (17 for the week). All that matters is the +1.

We all have different ways of enjoying/tracking/monitoring etc. But especially in the Cutline where there's nothing you can do to influence the outcome anymore, the best suggestion is to enjoy the 167 hours and 30 minutes between the time you verify that week's scoring is accurate.

[TRAIN]

Todd - I appreciate your input and respect your opinion and explanation of how to verify on a weekly basis.

However, I would wager that almost everybody playing the Cutline likes to see how many points their team(s) have accumulated on a daily basis and where they are in the standings on a daily basis. That is probably why STATS sends out the team update emails on a daily basis.

When I see a different daily point total for my team in the Overall Standings than what was in the daily email from STATS, I would like to understand how the difference was arrived at. I don't want to have to wait until Monday morning each week to see if everything for the week was accurate.

As long as they are updating daily points accumulated in the Overall Standings and there is a discrepancy between those points and the points in the daily emails from STATS, I think it is a fair request to explain how optimal points are calculated daily in the Cutline Rules.

I have to say that it is amazing to me that the powers that be have not even seen fit to address my concerns.

[JohnP]

Todd - I appreciate your input and respect your opinion and explanation of how to verify on a weekly basis.

However, I would wager that almost everybody playing the Cutline likes to see how many points their team(s) have accumulated on a daily basis and where they are in the standings on a daily basis. That is probably why STATS sends out the team update emails on a daily basis.

When I see a different daily point total for my team in the Overall Standings than what was in the daily email from STATS, I would like to understand how the difference was arrived at. I don't want to have to wait until Monday morning each week to see if everything for the week was accurate.

As long as they are updating daily points accumulated in the Overall Standings and there is a discrepancy between those points and the points in the daily emails from STATS, I think it is a fair request to explain how optimal points are calculated daily in the Cutline Rules.

I have to say that it is amazing to me that the powers that be have not even seen fit to address my concerns.

Dude - you are beating this to death. This isn't that hard to understand. You are accumulating points on a weekly basis. Instead of you picking a lineup and getting the stats (points in this case) daily on that lineup, you get the advantage of all players scoring points all week long and when the week is done, the highest at each of your positions count towards your overall standings. It doesn't do you a lot of good to look at your daily points. Like IRR suggested - go to stats / team stats and look at your scoring for the week.

If you are suggesting that the points aren't being calculated correctly for a given player - that's a different story. I'm assuming the stats are being correlated to points correctly.

[TRAIN]

Why are you so friggin upset,dude?

You can assume all you want about the points being calculated correctly. When I see discrepancies, I want to be able to figure out why without having to wait until Monday.

As far as beating this to death, the powers that be still haven't chimed in either yesterday or today.

[TParsons]

Why are you so friggin upset,dude?

You can assume all you want about the points being calculated correctly. When I see discrepancies, I want to be able to figure out why without having to wait until Monday.

As far as beating this to death, the powers that be still haven't chimed in either yesterday or today.

Todd has already explained this as well as it can possibly be explained. Throughout the week, you can make sure there aren't discrepancies by tracking each player individually to make sure their stats are correct. Because you are using dynamic scoring, you're going to drive yourself mad trying to calculate the team totals prior to the end of the week, since the scoring period isn't over until the full slate of games are completed for the week. Once the games are completed for the week, use your individual player calculations to verify the team total.

[KJ Duke]

You can assume all you want about the points being calculated correctly. When I see discrepancies, I want to be able to figure out why without having to wait until Monday.

As far as beating this to death, the powers that be still haven't chimed in either yesterday or today.

You're not seeing any discrepancies, what you are seeing is how optimal scoring works. It seems like you sorta get it now, but you still don't. Sit down with pen and paper and figure it out if you need to, but nothing more can really be said about it.

STATS has run optimal scoring football contests in exactly the same manner for more than 10 years. In all those years no one has proposed the questions you have because ... well, it's kinda obvious how it works.

Unless you see bench players that have out-scored starting players at the same position, or individual player stats that don't match up with their point totals, the system is working flawlessly.

[TRAIN]

I get it guys.

Now go back and read my 1st post in this thread where I said:

"I received my daily email report from Stats this morning that detailed how my team did yesterday. It told me that my players accumulated 141 points yesterday. Then I go to the Cutline Overall Standings and I see that my team accumulated only 118 points yesterday."

What I am looking for is the formula or the calculation of how STATS arrived at the 118 points from the 141 points it sent in the daily email.

Don't tell me it is obvious because it isn't.

[Gb2715]

It's optimal weekly scoring not daily. Yes you got those points yesterday but they aren't final until Sunday. A player in your lineup on Monday may not end up in your lineup on Sunday. For example let's say on Monday your team has 50 points and Correa had 3. Then Tuesday A. Russell hits a bomb and gets 10. Well yes for daily total you got ten but for your weekly lineup Russell is your SS so you use his 10 points but you don't get to keep Correa's 3 points. So weekly you netted +7. It is like this for every position. You don't get all your players points everyday only your top at each position and top 9 pitchers for the WEEK not everyday.

[ToddZ]

I get it guys.

Now go back and read my 1st post in this thread where I said:

"I received my daily email report from Stats this morning that detailed how my team did yesterday. It told me that my players accumulated 141 points yesterday. Then I go to the Cutline Overall Standings and I see that my team accumulated only 118 points yesterday."

What I am looking for is the formula or the calculation of how STATS arrived at the 118 points from the 141 points it sent in the daily email.

Don't tell me it is obvious because it isn't.

Identify the players that contributed to the 141 that aren't part of the best-ball lineup after that night. Add up how much they scored that night.

Identify the players that are in the best-ball but didn't contribute to the 141. Add up those points.

Figure out the difference of those two - it should be 141-118 or 23 points.

Do you REALLY want STATS to design a program that runs through everyone's team, compares the previous day's best-ball lineup to the following day's best ball lineup, identifies the different players and does the calculation - FOR EVERY TEAM IN EVERY LEAGUE -- when it CANNOT be used to help manage your team better?

[TParsons]

Yep. Agree with Todd. If this is going to become a regular issue, and I were Greg/Tom, I'd just have the points excluded from the daily reports, as that field doesn't matter until the end of the week anyways.

[TRAIN]

Todd - That might be better than the useless and misleading daily information that they send out now for the Cutline.

[Greg Ambrosius]

There needs to be a better explanation of how the Cutline daily points are calculated.

I received my daily email report from Stats this morning that detailed how my team did yesterday. It told me that my players accumulated 141 points yesterday. Then I go to the Cutline Overall Standings and I see that my team accumulated only 118 points yesterday.

After the message board discussion yesterday with KJ Duke and Todd Zola, I kind of understand that daily point totals are not the same as optimal point totals.

However, there is no explanation of how optimal points are calculated daily in the Cutline Rules.

To add to the confusion, the daily point totals in the daily emails from Stats do not match what we see in the Cutline Overall Standings daily point gain for our teams.

What is the sense of having daily point gains in the Overall and League Standings when there is either no way, or a super complicated way, to verify the accuracy of them?

I believe there is great wisdom in the old saying "Trust - But Verify".

To me, the Cutline contest is a lot of fun to play and has explosive growth potential once the prizes increase. However, there needs to be way better customer service responses to some of the concerns and suggestions of the current Cutline players.

I think Todd explained what you're seeing and by the looks of things you understand it now. That being said, if the daily emails went out the way you want it there would be another thread on these boards asking us why we don't just send out a daily email with yesterday's scoring. I've seen posts that people want to see how their players did yesterday, so this partly does that. The fact that a pitcher who got 18 points replaces a pitcher who had 12 points means you added 6 points to your team total that day, not 18. I think most people have figured that part out.

But at the end of the day, you still want to see that 18 on your daily report, don't you? The scoring is accurate, it's working and I couldn't be prouder of this first season of Cutline. We will create a thread for suggestions for this contest soon and tweak everything for 2017. Maybe there's a better way of displaying yesterday's stats in the Cutline and having hitting & pitching points is something we're planning for 2017. Makes sense. Look for that thread soon enough.

[TRAIN]

How about this, Greg.

Continue to send out the daily Cutline emails with how many points each player and team accumulated yesterday because people do want to see that.

Then add this: Because the Cutline contest is an optimal scoring contest and the starters that were in your starting lineup yesterday may not necessarily have been there the previous day, your team's point total that you see in the Cutline Overall Standings may differ from the point total that you see in this email.

At least that kind of a statement would clear up any possible confusion.

By the way, I do not think that I am the only one that did not understand fully how optimal scoring worked on a daily basis. I am just the one that happened to say something about it.

Thanks for responding.

[croakerkane]

I understand all of that. But I get my e-mail report and I'm third in my league. This matches the standings on my league home page. But then I check the league live scoring and I'm in second. Obviously, it's always just a matter of a few points, but shouldn't those points match up every morning? It would be nice to know if I'm in second or third.

[ToddZ]

I understand all of that. But I get my e-mail report and I'm third in my league. This matches the standings on my league home page. But then I check the league live scoring and I'm in second. Obviously, it's always just a matter of a few points, but shouldn't those points match up every morning? It would be nice to know if I'm in second or third.

The live scoring feed and the feed used to score officially aren't the same. Often a scoring change is made after the game when the official scorekeeper has a chance to review the play (or review his e-mails/texts asking him to review the play). There's also mistakes made in the live scoring feed that are corrected by the stringers before they send in their final report.

If the final live standings and official morning standings are consistently out of whack then there's an issue. If it's periodic, it's just the live scoring uses a real-time, sometimes inaccurate data stream.

[croakerkane]

Ok. I get that, but they have been off consistently. When I moved into the top three I started checking every day, and they're always off by a few points. If it was just a day or two I would have chalked it up to scoring changes. But there's no way that happens every day. I'm not complaining..... I love the competition and I think the Cutline has been a job well done. I just want to know which is the accurate scoring. I watch a lot of games, and the live scoring seems to always do a great job. Then I get my e-mail report and I'm down a few points from the night before, but the live scoring is the same.

[ToddZ]

Live scoring should always be considered unofficial. I'll track my league for a few days to see if I see the same thing.

[croakerkane]

Ok. Our league is so close that I'm in third one way, second in the other..... I'm sure it's nothing, but I just don't know which to go by. Once again, love the Cutline, great job by all, and I'm sure it's all accurate. I'm not suggesting there's a problem, I'm sure there's not. I just want to know which is the accurate standings as we come down to the next round.

[Rainiers]

Ok. I get that, but they have been off consistently. When I moved into the top three I started checking every day, and they're always off by a few points. If it was just a day or two I would have chalked it up to scoring changes. But there's no way that happens every day. I'm not complaining..... I love the competition and I think the Cutline has been a job well done. I just want to know which is the accurate scoring. I watch a lot of games, and the live scoring seems to always do a great job. Then I get my e-mail report and I'm down a few points from the night before, but the live scoring is the same.

I think you found a minor glitch in the daily live scoring line. It adds up all the daily totals for players on your 23-man scoring roster. What the daily live scoring line fails to do is deduct the points from your team total for players that fall from the 23-man scoring roster that day. It should deduct the points associated with the player dropped from the 23-man roster for all points accumulated by that player during the period prior to today. But it doesn't. By way of example, Wednesday David Perhalta was dropped from my starting roster after accumulating 3 points on Monday and/or Tuesday. Those 3 points were not deducted from my Wednesday daily live score. Consequently my daily score was 3 points too high. This is carried over onto the live league standings report, which also scores my year-to-date total 3 points too high. Not a big deal and easily fixed. But I think that explains what you spotted.

[croakerkane]

Yes, I thought that, as well. But it looked like the period and season point totals in the live scoring were compensating for that, just not the daily (ie. the live scoring daily might be up 100, but the period and season were only up 75). But given all that, the league home page points total and the live scoring season total should match up each Monday morning before games start then, correct?

[ToddZ]

the league home page points total and the live scoring season total should match up each Monday morning before games start then, correct?

Not necessarily. As explained, the data stream for live scoring is NOT THE SAME as that used for official scoring. The stringer that generates the live stream goes back and corrects any mistakes and/or the official scorer may change a ruling which is captured on the official stream but not always the live stream.

[croakerkane]

OK. So, Bottom line is: the point total on the league home page is the actual standings, correct?

[ToddZ]

OK. So, Bottom line is: the point total on the league home page is the actual standings, correct?

Yes.

[croakerkane]

OK. Thank you. I understood the system and the scoring.... Just wanted to know actual points heading into the first cut.... Didn't mean to cause any further confusion.... Hope I didn't and thank you again....