Rick Hahn: Yoan Moncada is not close to promotion...

[Rainiers]

This lie,that Moncada is somehow not ready, troubles me a great deal. We are all being robbed of seeing a great young talent at the major league level. This is just simply Hahn double-speak that means "over the next seven years we can save somewhere between $12 and $18 million dollars if we wait to call him up for another two months". I get that. It makes financial sense. But don't blow smoke up my ass about Yoan not being ready. I think I will be even more ill, when, the day after the All-Star break, Hahn will proudly proclaim that Moncada is indeed now ready. No coincidence that this will occur right after he loses his Super-2 eligibility. Give me a break.

If Rick would simply speak the truth, that this is about saving millions of dollars, perhaps changes to the Collective Bargaining Agreement would come sooner. The Super-Two clause has been and continues to be a disaster for fans and all of baseball.

[Greg Ambrosius]

This article explains his Super Two status pretty well. I think he could be added in another month or so to save the White Sox that extra year, so hopefully they don't have to wait until the All-Star break. But you are right, if financial reasons weren't a consideration he'd be playing second base in Chicago right now and exciting their fan base. What a shame.

http://deepdishsports.com/2017/05/08/wh ... e-in-play/

[headhunters]

as a sox fan i hated they traded sale. didn't mind eaton- kinda a wuss, plus hurt a lot. but since they decided to rebuild- they needed to go all in. i don't think any sox fan feels "robbed' we don't see moncada. the white sox are never on national tv anyway. the national games are 110% some combo of red sox, yankees, cubs, dodgers- so national fans aren't "robbed" either. plus- it is AAA ball- many fail when called up. the white sox are a small market team in a big city. 10 million cub fans to 20,000 sox fans. cub tickets in outfield= 100-500 bucks. sox tickets in outfield- 2-4 bucks. sox parking= 10-20 bucks cubs parking= 50-200 bucks. hahn has no choice. really- the sox should just trade robertson, frazier etc. now and lose 130 games. most of the so called analysts applaud that now anyway.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Hahn cannot say that he is leaving Moncada in the Minors because of Super 2. It would piss off Moncada, his agent, the players union, and probably other GM's.
We live in an age where people in power cannot say what they mean or even mean what they say.
Spin it as 'Moncada is not ready', works.
He surely was not ready when the BoSox brought him up last year.
Buxton has been thought to be 'ready' twice.
It works.
I'm guessing you have 'ownage' in Moncada.

[Rainiers]

Greg, I'm glad you agree that it's a shame he is not up. International League player of the month, there is no player I can think of in the minors more ready than Yoan. There is a lot of misinformation out there regarding when players lose their Super 2 eligibility, but I think a player who has never played in the majors loses in it In the middle of June. Yoan was up for 31 days last year though, so it pushes his clock back a month.

Headhunters, I'm admittedly an outlier as I watch a lot of MLB TV on MLB.tv. Ironically , the only team I don't watch is my local one, as it's blacked out! So I would be watching Sox games via the internet, along with a lot of fans that get all MLB games. Also, Moncada, even though he might not be watched much on gamecasts, I'm guessing he would show up a lot on highlight reels.

Dough, you are spot on with all your comments, give the CBA. But I meant to make the main point of this thread to be the CBA needs to be changed so prospects are not artificially held down, so I guess I need to emphasis that more. And yes, I do own a share of Moncada as I wanted to have a little of him to satisfy my baseball rooting interests. But I don't own him on my 21 other teams as I figured this is how it would go down.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I put a lot of thought into this tonight. I've always had a hate for clubs 'holding back' players in the minors to save money down the line.
It happened with Gregory Polanco and it happened with Kris Bryant when it was obvious they had nothing left to prove in the minor leagues.
It's easy to hate it.

BUT, but what is the alternative?
Let's use Moncada as an example and say that September is a 'free month'. That is to say that any minor league player can be brought up in September and it does not count against the players clock.
As it is right now, White Sox owners are waiting till Moncada clears the super 2 time line and then will call him up.
Without that timer, the White Sox may not bring Moncada up till September.
Why would they?
They are not contenders. They are building for the future.
The wise decision would have to be to let Moncada percolate in the minors till September.
We don't like the rule, but without it, we may not have seen Moncada till September, not the end of June.

I can't fault the teams.
If we wanted to lease a car and the dealership said we can have a sweetheart deal for the car for four years now or five years if we wait two months, if not needing the car immediately, we would wait the extra two months.
The extra year is afforded to a rebuilding team. A team in the pennant race (Bellinger) will not wait.

[Greg Ambrosius]

We had Rich Wilson of Prospect361.com on our SiriusXM show last night and he thought the Super 2 status for Moncada would be around July 1st. He agreed that he likely wouldn't be called up before then. Can he still provide value over the last half of the season? Certainly, but baseball fans are missing out on a difference maker who should be called up earlier than that.

[DOUGHBOYS]

baseball fans are missing out on a difference maker who should be called up earlier than that.

He's a difference maker for fantasy teams. Not the White Sox. At least, not this year.
They are hand tied by the rules and have to do the smart thing.
Giolito, Lopez, Dunning, and Kopech still in the minors too.
Six weeks now as opposed to a whole year in his prime? That is an easy decision for the White Sox.

[headhunters]

maybe greg and dough can fly up to minnesota and walk around target field during a game and greg can ask- so how excited were you last year to see the 2 "difference makers' berrios and buxton play? a typical answer might be "are you f.....g kidding me. i saw berrios give up 12 earned in 3 innings in a game where buxton struck out 4 times!

[Greg Ambrosius]

maybe greg and dough can fly up to minnesota and walk around target field during a game and greg can ask- so how excited were you last year to see the 2 "difference makers' berrios and buxton play? a typical answer might be "are you f.....g kidding me. i saw berrios give up 12 earned in 3 innings in a game where buxton struck out 4 times!

Berrios was terrible last year. He nibbled around the edges and walked far too many. He was awful. But you could see that he had the fastball and more. He wasn't the first youngster to struggle in his MLB debut and he won't be the last. But you certainly don't give up on a talent like this. And you don't let him excel at Triple-A forever. He's due for a promotion.

Anyone who saw him last year and doesn't want to take a chance on a young talented pitcher should stay away. I see the Triple-A numbers and will dive in, especially after looking at what's left in the barren free agent pool. I'll gladly dive back into this fire. Stay away if you were burned before.

[Wolfpac]

baseball fans are missing out on a difference maker who should be called up earlier than that.

He's a difference maker for fantasy teams. Not the White Sox. At least, not this year.
They are hand tied by the rules and have to do the smart thing.
Giolito, Lopez, Dunning, and Kopech still in the minors too.
Six weeks now as opposed to a whole year in his prime? That is an easy decision for the White Sox.

Not actually a correct statement, by holding them 19 days or so then you get the most actual time under team control, like 6 years plus almost a full season. if you call up a prospect now as opposed to mid july, you actually do get two less months of big league time assuming he never gets sent back. The difference is that if you call him up now, he gets paid a lot more in 2020-23. While if you wait he's getting minimum salary in 2020, and his arbitration raises will generally be much further behind in 2021-23.

Either way you lose control after 2023(once again assuming he's not sent back down)

[Wolfpac]

So its strictly all about money, not about getting a full year in his prime versus two months now.

Now Bryant was a case of getting the maximum major league time, hence why he did not make opening day roster, his 19 day or so wait allowed the Cubs to get the maximum amount of team control time, almost 7 full years.

[DOUGHBOYS]

So its strictly all about money, not about getting a full year in his prime versus two months now.

Now Bryant was a case of getting the maximum major league time, hence why he did not make opening day roster, his 19 day or so wait allowed the Cubs to get the maximum amount of team control time, almost 7 full years.

Either way, an easy decision.

[DOUGHBOYS]

It's too easy to blame the White Sox.
They have a plan for the future. Whether Moncada is excelling at AAA or struggling , really, is of no import for them.
Sure, baseball fans and fantasy folks want to see a new toy. We all like our prospects.
But blaming the White Sox is futile.
Heck, I blame the Red Sox more!
They trusted in Sandoval and now have a hole at 3B that Moncada could easily have plugged. And being a contender, they would have brought Moncada up.
But, I'm sure they're happy with what they received in that trade

[headhunters]

greg- my point was- all these guys are not difference makers right away. some are great the 1st year. some the second and some never. moncada still has a high k rate. trout struggled 1st time up. you just don't know. why bring him up? berrios- ya I had him last year and I like him this year- but who knows?