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All,

I know that we are set for this year with KDS (which btw I got #14 in the satellite draft which was my 14th kds selection out of 15)



Top Dawg just gave me a new idea. Instead of bidding with FAAB - which many people complain would unbalance the rest of the NFBC season, why not bid with real CASH? 75% of this money could be put into that leagues payout pool.



This would allow people who really think that position matters the chance to influence their selection spot while allowing those who don't the opportunity to win more cash.



What does everyone think?



Spy

Interesting, but I do not see it as an idea that would catch on. In essence, you are having an open auction for your first round player (rounds after that, you do not know who would be available), and the serpentine after.



First you would HAVE to cap the amount you could bid (i.e. I do pretty good, but I do not want to go toe-to-toe with Meatloaf's checkbook).



And if you capped the amount you could bid (say $500), and two (or more) bid the max for the #1 (Pujols?), then the only equitable way to break the tie would be to pull one name out of a hat and the other(s) would get their second (third) choice, which by the way reintroduces at least a small amount of randomness. That would seem to defeat the purpose.



[ March 05, 2007, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: Edwards Kings ]

This is a contest about skill with baseball not about who can afford to buy a draft spot. One of the few ideas I ever see floated here that would make me leave this contest and never come back if implemented.

"75% of this money could be put into that leagues payout pool."



Is that all?



Bad Idea.



Join an auction if you want total control.



~Lance

1) It's not new - I introduced it for FF two years ago



2) It is a TERRIBLE idea for baseball

Wow, have we all become socialists?



I thought "it doesn't matter where you draft" so why would anyone care if someone decides to spend money on determining their slot.



Why put a limit? if someone wants to spend $10k on the first position, then take it and add it to the prize pool.



IF this occurs, the OBVIOUSLY picking slots matter, and we should have a process gives more control than KDS.



People can't have it both ways - people can't say draft spot doesn't matter, then complain if someone is willing to put their $$$ where their mouth is.



Anyway, why is it a 'terrible idea for baseball' but not FF???



Spy

Originally posted by Captain Hook:

1) It's not new - I introduced it for FF two years ago



2) It is a TERRIBLE idea for baseball I have to agree with the Captain here. In football getting LT or another top 2-3 RB might very well make a difference in winning; but in baseball I really think you can lose just as well from any position.



Pete

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

This is a contest about skill with baseball not about who can afford to buy a draft spot. One of the few ideas I ever see floated here that would make me leave this contest and never come back if implemented. Agreed!

Ha, yeah, I don't think your idea will be popular but I'd be okay with it. If someone wants to pay me $1000 to win from the 15 slot, let them. Anyway, you put down $10 on 2-15, you'd probably do okay. I think people would only really pay to be #1.

Originally posted by Spyhunter:

Wow, have we all become socialists?



I thought "it doesn't matter where you draft" so why would anyone care if someone decides to spend money on determining their slot.



Why put a limit? if someone wants to spend $10k on the first position, then take it and add it to the prize pool.



IF this occurs, the OBVIOUSLY picking slots matter, and we should have a process gives more control than KDS.



People can't have it both ways - people can't say draft spot doesn't matter, then complain if someone is willing to put their $$$ where their mouth is.



Anyway, why is it a 'terrible idea for baseball' but not FF???



Spy You know you have someone on the ropes when they say what are we all socialists?



It is a horrific idea and the response here should start to give you that idea.

Spy,



What not just bid on 1st place for the league.... Spy, if you want to bid $100 for 1st pick or 1000 for 1st pick go for it. We all agree that 1-3 rounds dont win the league so why should we pay any extra. I agree with Chest, this about skills, forecasting, knowledge, alittle luck, but not about who wants to pony up the most cash for Albert or Arod, etc...



Cant wait for next Saturday, it sucks that we only have a few leagues in Tampa...to many decent players coming and not enough leagues to seperate us out.



SlackerDan

I have a great idea for you Spy: you can pay REAL MONEY directly to the people who are drafting ahead of you to not select Albert Pujols. This way, you could wind up with Pujols from the 15th slot if you pay enough and there are 14 willing participants. Collusion shmlusion.



As Chest stated, this is a contest about baseball statistics -- real money should not be a determinant of the winner in any shape or form.

As Chest stated, this is a contest about baseball statistics -- real money should not be a determinant of the winner in any shape or form. Like one of those silly leagues that make you pay real $ to pick up free agents! Big Doggy must play in one of those leagues since he is the Yankees of fantasy baseball.

OK, I'll bite.



Why would buying draft positions with real cash be "horrible"? Just factor your draft position cost as part of your budget. If you want to pay $0 for your draft position, pay $0. If you want to bid 15, 20, 25% of your entry fee to get the draft position you want, go ahead.



If you want to talk "real" Kentucky Derby/Breeders Cup, yes the draw is random but the horses don't all pay the same amount to get into the race. Earlybirds pay the standard nominating fee; latecomers, who want to see their horses race as two year olds before stumping up, pay much more.



If I ran one of these sites, bidding for draft position (with 90% of the supplementary bid money going to prizes, 10% to a good charity) would be the FIRST rule I'd put in, and here's why: Occasionally some jerk will stumble on one of these contest sites, enter twice, and pick 11th/14 in one and 13th/15 in the second -- then declare to all and sundry that the site is "fixed". Bidding for draft spots makes this completely transparent and the site owners, then, can't be accused of favourtism. And if I was a site owner, priotecting my good name against any and all such trolls would be a huge priority.



It works for buying Japanese baseball players; it would work here too.



[Edited for spelling mistakes ONLY]



[ March 06, 2007, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: bluenose ]

This ground has been gone over many times. The last time the NFBC came up with the presently in use KDS. Here's what I'd like to see.



You league assignment is done randomly by management. The day of the draft. The facilator for each league draws a number (1-15) and bidding insues for that slot. FAAB$ are the currency. Once the 15 positions are established a break of 21 Minutes then the draft starts. Very intense. Highly competative. Adds value to FAAB$.

Originally posted by Kevin D:

This ground has been gone over many times. The last time the NFBC came up with the presently in use KDS. Here's what I'd like to see.



You league assignment is done randomly by management. The day of the draft. The facilator for each league draws a number (1-15) and bidding insues for that slot. FAAB$ are the currency. Once the 15 positions are established a break of 21 Minutes then the draft starts. Very intense. Highly competative. Adds value to FAAB$. Great Kevin - but none of you espousing this have ever come up with a satisfactory way to break ties.

In addition, there will be those who spend too much of their FAAB and then after an injury or two and normal replacements are then out of FAAB money and not able to make any more roster changes. They will get frustrated with this and their team doing poorly and just abandon it - hurting their individual league and other teams in it.

Originally posted by Captain Hook:

quote:Originally posted by Kevin D:

This ground has been gone over many times. The last time the NFBC came up with the presently in use KDS. Here's what I'd like to see.



You league assignment is done randomly by management. The day of the draft. The facilator for each league draws a number (1-15) and bidding insues for that slot. FAAB$ are the currency. Once the 15 positions are established a break of 21 Minutes then the draft starts. Very intense. Highly competative. Adds value to FAAB$. Great Kevin - but none of you espousing this have ever come up with a satisfactory way to break ties.

In addition, there will be those who spend too much of their FAAB and then after an injury or two and normal replacements are then out of FAAB money and not able to make any more roster changes. They will get frustrated with this and their team doing poorly and just abandon it - hurting their individual league and other teams in it. [/QUOTE]Rock, paper Scissors to break ties.



10 to 20 percent of Owners will always get frustrated with something and abandon their teams.

Originally posted by Kimo:

quote:Originally posted by Captain Hook:

quote:Originally posted by Kevin D:

This ground has been gone over many times. The last time the NFBC came up with the presently in use KDS. Here's what I'd like to see.



You league assignment is done randomly by management. The day of the draft. The facilitator for each league draws a number (1-15) and bidding issues for that slot. FAAB$ are the currency. Once the 15 positions are established a break of 21 Minutes then the draft starts. Very intense. Highly competitive. Adds value to FAAB$. Great Kevin - but none of you espousing this have ever come up with a satisfactory way to break ties.

In addition, there will be those who spend too much of their FAAB and then after an injury or two and normal replacements are then out of FAAB money and not able to make any more roster changes. They will get frustrated with this and their team doing poorly and just abandon it - hurting their individual league and other teams in it. [/QUOTE]Rock, paper Scissors to break ties.



10 to 20 percent of Owners will always get frustrated with something and abandon their teams. [/QUOTE]What Kevin proposed is doable and there would be no ties. It's an auction...not the blind bidding crap, but LIVE bidding.



The only reason blind bidding is used for free agents is it's currently programmed, and low maintenance, and isn't reliant on the busy schedules of so many people. If they figured out a way to bid on free agents in a live manner (like an E-Bay auction item that goes off the board to snipers on Sunday around dinner time on the west coast...I'd guess most people would be home to "snipe")...it would kick to game up to another level!



I can hardly wait. THAT would allow people to use strategy and milk more free agent dollars out of opponents based on needs in their league, show true average values of free agents, etc...someday!



~Lance

Yes---LIVE bidding and bids of "Zero" would be allowed.

I like the idea. Thanks GG

Originally posted by Kevin D:

Yes---LIVE bidding and bids of "Zero" would be allowed. Tell me how ties are broken Kevin

Lance you can try this also



Two teams both bid $300 for first draft spot?



Then ten positions are bid on and assigned and the last five teams all want to bid zero for the remaining spots?

We have discussed FAAB bidding endlessly before. My idea was to try and come up with a way that was fair to all, but, I can see the idea is a no-go.



Several of us have been advocating FAAB bidding for atleast a year. In a nutshell:



1. If you do it blind, you need to do a KDS or a random order for any ties or 0s. The benefits of Blind are you can get the results back before draft for those who require it



2. If you do it live, the issue becomes more of logistics issue - you add another 20-30 minutes to the draft and probably some confusion. Also, there is a group of owners who feel that they must have their draft pick prior to the draft



Either way, some people are concerned that someone who is an idiot may use 950 of their 1000 FAAB to get the pick spot they want. They feel that this would unbalance the rest of the league.



Personally, I vote for live bidding, with no limits (except the 1k of FAAB). To me it is the fairest, most transparent approach, which gives owners the exact amount of control they want. As for the FAAB waste issue unbalancing the leage, well, there are no limits on the weekly FAAB auctions and those seem to be fine



I think that for a league to call it self the National Championship, it must do what ever it can to reduce randomness and increase strategy. Live bidding for draft spots accomplishes this.



Anyway, I think that KDS is the way we are going to be for a long time



Spy

"We have discussed FAAB bidding endlessly before. My idea was to try and come up with a way that was fair to all, but, I can see the idea is a no-go."



We discussed it for Football where it has merit.

However there are still problems yet to be resolved - ties being one of them

Originally posted by Captain Hook:

quote:Originally posted by Kevin D:

Yes---LIVE bidding and bids of "Zero" would be allowed. Tell me how ties are broken Kevin

Lance you can try this also



Two teams both bid $300 for first draft spot?



Then ten positions are bid on and assigned and the last five teams all want to bid zero for the remaining spots? [/QUOTE]I would think it would be run like an auction.



One player begins the auction..."25 for slot 2"



Auction bidding in increments of 1.



Once the player "wins" his draft spot...he is done. Another player then begins the bidding on a remaining draft slot. You can have a random name selection for who begins the bidding each time. If it's worth more than zero, you bid.



There could not be ties. If two people both shout out 300...it's at the discretion of the crowd who said it first. If it's not worth 301 to the other guy...he loses out.



Ties come to play in blind bidding...which I think is a nice "temporary band aide" idea that will be blown away the minute auction style bidding for free agents is introduced. You can still blind bid on an e-bay item...but others can bid one buck at a time until they out-bid you...if it's worth it to them.



It's fast and easy...maybe done in 5 minutes or so.



~Lance

Lance you still have not addressed what happens when the first ten people have bought slots and there are five left and all five drafters bid Zero!