Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

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mdecav
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Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by mdecav » Sun Oct 01, 2017 4:58 pm

Last Sunday I was outbid on FAAB for Mike Minor by a team in 10th place in one of my leagues, which is one of a few reasons I dropped to second, which has made me $14k lighter. Had the team not put in a bid, I would've gotten Minor and won the league. But again that wasn't the only reason why I'm coming in 2nd; my team had one of the worst offensive weeks this week which of course didn't help at all, but was curious to many of the NFBC regulars:

1. If you know you're completely out-of-money in a league i.e. 30 points, when do you stop doing FAAB, if at all?
2. If you know you're completely out-of-money in a league, do you check to see if your possible FAAB has potential $$ impact on the teams likely in-the-money, and does that weigh on your decision to put a FAAB bid in on a player?

Just curious...

DOUGHBOYS
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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:05 pm

mdecav wrote:Last Sunday I was outbid on FAAB for Mike Minor by a team in 10th place in one of my leagues, which is one of a few reasons I dropped to second in my league, which cost me $14k. Had the team not put in a bid, I would've won the league. But again that wasn't the only reason why I'm coming in 2nd; my team had one of the worst offensive weeks this week which of course didn't help at all, but was curious to many of the NFBC regulars:

1. If you know you're completely out-of-money in a league i.e. 30 points, when do you stop doing FAAB, if at all?
2. If you know you're completely out-of-money in a league, do you check to see if your possible FAAB has potential $$ impact on the teams likely in-the-money, and does that weigh on your decision to put a FAAB bid in on a player?

Just curious...
It's his faab dollars, he's entitled to do with it whatever he wants, whenever he wants.
I believe that all teams should play to the end. Even if it's to keep out of last place or improve from 10th to ninth.
It it effects the top teams, so be it.
If Minor had failed this week, you would have thanked him :D

Edit- Brad Brach was thought to be a smart pick up this past week.
He broke some hearts today.
Last edited by DOUGHBOYS on Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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NorCalAtlFan
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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by NorCalAtlFan » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:12 pm

it sucks, but i echo dan. some people are known to have side bets with others in their leagues regarding standings, some people are grinders, some people are a holes, etc, the motives are not always clear.

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mdecav
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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by mdecav » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:14 pm

I'm aware he can do what he wants with it; its completely legal on his part and he possibly owes it to my competitor to put a bid. If Minor didn't get any saves I would been in the same spot because my offense fell apart.

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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by DOUGHBOYS » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:20 pm

I'd answer your two questions this way...

1. I'm a grinder. I never stop faabing.

2. When faabing and out of a cash finish in my league, I have no idea if my bids will effect the top teams or not.
I'm more paying attention to my team and where it can finish, not other teams.
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mdecav
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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by mdecav » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:24 pm

DOUGHBOYS wrote:
Edit- Brad Brach was thought to be a smart pick up this past week.
He broke some hearts today.
Brach was my backup. The O's only had five games with the possibility of Britton coming back. So my bids were on Minor then Brach.

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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by cfolson » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:04 pm

mdecav wrote: 1. If you know you're completely out-of-money in a league i.e. 30 points, when do you stop doing FAAB, if at all?
Never.
mdecav wrote: 2. If you know you're completely out-of-money in a league, do you check to see if your possible FAAB has potential $$ impact on the teams likely in-the-money, and does that weigh on your decision to put a FAAB bid in on a player?
I don't check.

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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by Yah Mule » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:16 pm

mdecav wrote:Last Sunday I was outbid on FAAB for Mike Minor by a team in 10th place in one of my leagues, which is one of a few reasons I dropped to second, which has made me $14k lighter. Had the team not put in a bid, I would've gotten Minor and won the league. But again that wasn't the only reason why I'm coming in 2nd; my team had one of the worst offensive weeks this week which of course didn't help at all, but was curious to many of the NFBC regulars:

1. If you know you're completely out-of-money in a league i.e. 30 points, when do you stop doing FAAB, if at all?
2. If you know you're completely out-of-money in a league, do you check to see if your possible FAAB has potential $$ impact on the teams likely in-the-money, and does that weigh on your decision to put a FAAB bid in on a player?

Just curious...
I posted a thread on this very topic before the season started.

http://nfbcforums.stats.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19561
A competitive nature and a large degree of self confidence are necessary traits among NFBC competitors. I fully accept that losing more than you win is part of the game. What kills me is when I blow it and draft a badly flawed team that I feel compelled to manage to the bitter end. Even if I find myself in a hopeless situation in early May, I will keep changing lineups bi-weekly and continue participating in FAAB.

Down the stretch, I try to be cognizant of not impacting the race between the top teams in my league. I keep setting my lineups as usual, but I will generally blow out whatever FAAB I have remaining at the end of August and just save a few dollars. I really don't want to beat a contender in my league out of player in the final weeks. Even though its perfectly fair and legal, it still feels like a kind of interference. I believe I fulfill my responsibility to the overall contest by keeping a lineup free of dead spots.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

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mdecav
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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by mdecav » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:46 pm

Interesting post Jim. If I know I am out of a contest I typically avoid FAAB in September. Its just etiquette in my mind.

I think moves like this bring about resentment for future contests. So in a future contest and I'm out of it and I know that owner is in the same predicament that I was in, then I will purposely go out of my way to FAAB players to avoid him getting what he needs.

There was actually a second owner who is also about 30 points out of it who was still FAABing multiple players the last week, but his strategy he had been going with since early August even though he was never in the top half of the league. That only cost me half a point this last week, but the same point stands; it begets resentment and makes me re-think etiquette in future contests if we're in the same league.

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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by Edwards Kings » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:08 pm

Most years I have been out of the money, but every year I am FAAB all 26 weeks. I know it is different strokes, but I always found it to be bad form to quit looking for ways to improve my teams, even if you are out of it. It is one of the things I like about the NFBC (i.e. most players do toss in the towel before the season is over).

It is frustrating I know and I have had people in leagues with me tell me I outbid them for players late, but they were always very nice about it and understood why I did/do it.

P.S. I had Minor but opted to use one closer this week....Kimbrel...oops!
Baseball is a slow, boring, complex, cerebral game that doesn't lend itself to histrionics. You 'take in' a baseball game, something odd to say about a football or basketball game, with the clock running and the bodies flying.
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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by Yah Mule » Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:23 pm

mdecav wrote:Interesting post Jim. If I know I am out of a contest I typically avoid FAAB in September. Its just etiquette in my mind.

I think moves like this bring about resentment for future contests. So in a future contest and I'm out of it and I know that owner is in the same predicament that I was in, then I will purposely go out of my way to FAAB players to avoid him getting what he needs.

There was actually a second owner who is also about 30 points out of it who was still FAABing multiple players the last week, but his strategy he had been going with since early August even though he was never in the top half of the league. That only cost me half a point this last week, but the same point stands; it begets resentment and makes me re-think etiquette in future contests if we're in the same league.
I really try not to take any of this personally and I do sympathize with losing that kind of money in the final week. I like to think the percentage of people who are actually servicing grudges here is low. It's impossible to really know what someone's reasons are for their moves from a distance. If the explanation isn't malicious (likely), the response shouldn't be, either.

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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by red mule » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:27 am

I will also FAAB all 26 weeks without regard for my position in the standings. I think I owe it to myself and the integrity of the league to play to the bitter end. With that in mind, I don't ever recall spending one second looking at another teams roster and trying to outbid any individual owner for a player he may need. I will attempt to score every possible fantasy point I can in each category thru the last scoring period. There is no question, the final outcome of every league is affected by owners who fall out of contention and fail to FAAB or set a lineup capable of producing competitive fantasy stats.

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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by Quahogs » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:59 am

I'm respectful of the leaders and their efforts building a league lead but certainly don't waste much time analyzing the league itself. No interest in digging deep into the categories of the teams that are 50pts ahead. That's more for off-season analysis.

I do keep faabing mainly because it's second nature. It's hard to go 24 weeks trying furtively to improve your team and then pulling the plug the last 2 weeks. I figure it's COUNTERproductive to league integrity to all of a sudden stop doing what I've done for 24 weeks. But like I said I have no clue what league leading teams need category-wise.

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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by SharkChum » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:19 am

Agree on grinding/playing it out. Knowing my closest competitor needed wins, and with K's being a 2-point cat between us I bid $3 on 5 possible 2-steps knowing he had only $2 left. Only used Anibal, and left myself 1 hitter on the bench. Blowing through FAAB, streaming crappy 2-steps all season was his undoing.

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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by Joe Sambito » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:26 am

I faab until the end and I try to scrap for every last point. So I do look at the standings and try to get points that are attainable, if that means I'm getting them from a league leader, so be it. I want to try and finish as high as possible ever year. Tough to shut off grinding when you've been doing it week in, week out, week after week.
"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest overcome it."

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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by Big League Wood » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:16 am

Good thread. I am a grinder, however, place etiquette high in these leagues.
I played in an 11 Team HQ auction league. My team was brutal and was led by Miggy, Carpenter, and Odor.
At some point in the second half, I started FABing $0 with the concern I could impact the top of the league.
I determined my goal was to beat the "expert HQ" player as my motivation to stay active and make the league fun.
I'll be damned, as my team went from 9th place to 3rd place with a late run.
Perhaps i should have bid more aggressively ???

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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by devilznj » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:25 am

I unfortunately had a terrible year this year. But I play right down to the bitter end. I'm not trying to screw anybody.
I'm trying to perform the best I can and would consider it disrespectful to my league mates to quit. By me NOT BIDDING, maybe
YOU get a player you shouldn't have gotten to help you win a title or improve in the standings.
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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by headhunters » Thu Oct 05, 2017 10:55 am

play till the end, try till the end. at the least-it might help you get more practice for when it really counts.

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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by Mike Kelstrom » Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:07 am

I empathize and completely understand your frustration, and having played NFBC "forever" have experienced seemingly every manner of bad luck possible. However, I don't endorse a contestant "giving up" and stop playing ever. Please consider,
a) he paid the same amount as you, and is entitled to play however he wishes
b) unless there is a personal history between you two, which does not sound like the case, I doubt very much that he analyzed what stat you needed, and what player could bring it to you, and bid to screw you. If he were that attentive and analytical, he would not have been in 10th place.
c) every contestant has their own level of objective or goal - he may have been competing with a buddy for best overall
combined finishes in multiple leagues.
d) as NFBC players, we should not want any contestant to stop playing - it hurts us all. If those without a chance to win stopped playing, the final results would be very skewed and in effect be a 3 or 4 team league.
e) personally I believe that all the way to the end, every contestant, at a minimum, should set a weekly lineup to be the best possible from the players they have (no DL players, etc), and replace players who are on the DL. If they don't do that, it hurts us all, as consider,
f) it is quite likely that without even knowing it, you were both the beneficiary and victim of weekly successes by out of contention players, as they may have picked up a point(s) from your closest rivals in categories where your primary rivals were the weakest. You need that possibility to exist all the way to the end, or else there is virtually no way to gain on your
closest rivals.

Granted, this case is more visible in that he was in 10th place, and had no chance to win, but leagues are definitely won, and cashed, in instances where a contestant, fairly deep into the season would have seemed to have little chance. Again, if they give up, from June on there would be less than half of the teams playing.

Hopefully it was still a good season for you, and I certainly don't mean to throw salt in the wound, or dismiss your frustration. However, NFBC is a contest that requires both skill and luck (arguably more weighted towards skill than NFFC where the scoring is simpler), and it is a fact that we all have to accept that at times the bad luck element will be extremely frustrating.

Thanks for reading, and congratulations on your success and best wishes for continued success.

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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by fwicker » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:19 am

I lost a first place $10K by 2/10000th in WHIP because a (very well respected) player, who was out of contention, decided to start Blake Beavan during the last week of the season. Blake Beavan, pitched possibly his best game ever that week and caused me to fall to second. It was extremely frustrating... but the owner who started him was and is assiduous and systematic in his approach to the game, even for his losing teams. And I respect that.
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Re: Has this ever happened to you? / Would you do this?

Post by TParsons » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:40 am

I believe my post from Yah Mule's thread in the preseason still reflect my thoughts on this matter. All I ask is that those who choose to tank not to come back from the dead after half the league or more, but not all teams, have passed them in counting stats. I've only experienced this a hand full of times in the many leagues I've been in over the years. I don't believe that most of them even realized that they were affecting the standings/money. Only once have I ever felt that it was done maliciously.

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