Slow pokes and Draft Champion Leagues

[NorCalAtlFan]

weak sauce.

[Money]

It only takes 2-3 owners to kill a draft.

i have a feeling the 2 hour drafts will solve this problem and be a big hit.

In a 2 hour draft we have a couple of guys who time out constantly. The rest go through a break neck pace to keep it moving and it will finish in a reasonable amount of time.

There has been conversation on chat about a penalty for all of these time outs. Right now you get the top of your Q which doesn't seem right. So finally one of them gets caught with nothing in the Q. What is the penalty? Brent honeywell. It seems just to everyone. Everyone except to the powers that be. He has the pick reversed and it's reversed after 3 more reams have already picked. It's the 39th round so no big deal. It just finally seemed like someone got what they deserved.

The penalty for timing out multiple times has to change next season.

This is for entertainment on the boards today. The same drafter comes up in the very next round. He takes an hour and then stops the draft and declares the computer gave him the wrong player.

The administrator does not stop the draft for over an hour and 10 minutes. The clock it ticking waiting on the next pick. When they give him his player the clock then resets giving the current player on the clock over 3 hours to pick in a 2 hour draft. You cannot make this stuff up.

[meanguy]

I'm in this league as well. Very frustrating. Please enforce the time out "rule" in the future. This has been allowed for years.

[Ando]

This is an overall contest. No way, shape, or form this should be allowed. He should have gotten the player he deserved in Honeywell.

Very disappointed to hear this.

[Gb2715]

Yes I'm not sure why he was allowed to timeout then dictate who he picked? Even if this wasn't an overall contest it still affects the league. This is really disturbing that this was allowed and I'm sure most of us would appreciate an explanation.

[DOUGHBOYS]

He was actually rewarded after taking nine hours off the clock.
Not good.

[Gb2715]

He was actually rewarded after taking nine hours off the clock.
Not good.

I'm confused as to why this would happen?

[MadCow Sez]

He was actually rewarded after taking nine hours off the clock.
Not good.

Here's a potential solution. Anyone who times out and gets a "forced" pick can replace the forced pick in supplemental rounds after everyone has finished the 50th round. Time out in rd 23 and get Honeywell? You replace Honeywell with a player that survived the 750 previous picks and is still in the pool.

You should never get rewarded for timing out.

[Gb2715]

He was actually rewarded after taking nine hours off the clock.
Not good.

Here's a potential solution. Anyone who times out and gets a "forced" pick can replace the forced pick in supplemental rounds after everyone has finished the 50th round. Time out in rd 23 and get Honeywell? You replace Honeywell with a player that survived the 750 previous picks and is still in the pool.

You should never get rewarded for timing out.

I don't like this either!! If you timeout you get who you get. No do overs! Ever! Done! No discussion it's a rule. Not sure why this rule was not enforced. Ridiculous if you ask me!

[DOUGHBOYS]

He was actually rewarded after taking nine hours off the clock.
Not good.

Here's a potential solution. Anyone who times out and gets a "forced" pick can replace the forced pick in supplemental rounds after everyone has finished the 50th round. Time out in rd 23 and get Honeywell? You replace Honeywell with a player that survived the 750 previous picks and is still in the pool.

You should never get rewarded for timing out.

I don't think that would work, Dan.
Especially in March.
Let's say that the Cardinals name Tuivailala as their Closer.
Tui goes undrafted, but the timed out drafter is rewarded with a Closer when changing his selection later.

Really, he should just have Honeywell.
The top of the queue tells him that that is who he would get if timing out.
It can't be spelled out much clearer for the drafter.

[meanguy]

Greg/Tom, could you address this issue? Can the rule be enforced in the future, please? I can't see any reasonable objection to the rule and it's really not fair to the rest of the league/contest. I know It's a late RD 30's pick, but I've seen this practice in years past as well, again with much objection from league members. I pick pretty quickly but if for some reason I timed out with no one in my que, I would expect to get who I get. Thanks.

[Baseball Furies]

Too many good and rightfully indignant posts for me to respond to each individually. But it's quite clear that the way this situation was handled was a debacle. We are all playing this game for a lot more than "shits and giggles". This is a serious competition with money on the line and a great deal of time and effort invested by us all. These "mom and pop" operational decisions need to cease and desist. Make firm rules and policy and stick to it. No way this guy should have been rewarded for his negligence and flippant disregard for the league rules and his fellow participants. Thankfully I am not in this league or things would have went nuclear pretty damn fast. I would have never have let this bullshit slide.

[Money]

I think this has gotten blown out of proportion. This will not determine the overall winner of the contest. Should it lead to a change in how time outs are handled? I think it should. It is most likely that the admin at the time did not realize that it was a timed out situation. I think it deserves a pass with a commitment to look at the application of the rules after drafting season has concluded.

If this was not a timed out situation I have no problem with the player being switched out. The constant timing out leads to frustration which led to this conversation. The chat tab has a time stamp on each pick. We have players taking an average of over 1 hour per pick. This is 50 hours over the course of the draft. With 16 hours now in a drafting day these individuals have used up 3 entire days plus, on the clock. This is unacceptable to many of us.

The clock is there to help when life doesn't allow us to pick. It's not there to abuse round in and round out by some. We will also need a way to determine which players belong in which drafts. There are at least two players in my current draft that have no business being in a 2 hour draft. This draft will end in 2 weeks which I find acceptable. What I don't find acceptable is that 12 of us have to auto every round to get it to that point.

[Gb2715]

I think this has gotten blown out of proportion. This will not determine the overall winner of the contest. Should it lead to a change in how time outs are handled? I think it should. It is most likely that the admin at the time did not realize that it was a timed out situation. I think it deserves a pass with a commitment to look at the application of the rules after drafting season has concluded.

If this was not a timed out situation I have no problem with the player being switched out. The constant timing out leads to frustration which led to this conversation. The chat tab has a time stamp on each pick. We have players taking an average of over 1 hour per pick. This is 50 hours over the course of the draft. With 16 hours now in a drafting day these individuals have used up 3 entire days plus, on the clock. This is unacceptable to many of us.

The clock is there to help when life doesn't allow us to pick. It's not there to abuse round in and round out by some. We will also need a way to determine which players belong in which drafts. There are at least two players in my current draft that have no business being in a 2 hour draft. This draft will end in 2 weeks which I find acceptable. What I don't find acceptable is that 12 of us have to auto every round to get it to that point.

I'm sorry Money but I disagree 100%. Yes I bitch about slow drafters but I'm really going to bitch about an owner timing out and getting the pick changed. I don't care what the reason or if someone didn't know or anything. It MIGHT not determine the winner but what if this was last yr and he switched him out for say Bellinger or Judge? Then the next drafters got screwed out of winning or placing in the league. We have no idea how that pick will affect any league or the overall contest that we all PAID to play. And no response from anyone about this situation is really bothersome

[MadCow Sez]

He was actually rewarded after taking nine hours off the clock.
Not good.

Here's a potential solution. Anyone who times out and gets a "forced" pick can replace the forced pick in supplemental rounds after everyone has finished the 50th round. Time out in rd 23 and get Honeywell? You replace Honeywell with a player that survived the 750 previous picks and is still in the pool.

You should never get rewarded for timing out.

I don't think that would work, Dan.
Especially in March.
Let's say that the Cardinals name Tuivailala as their Closer.
Tui goes undrafted, but the timed out drafter is rewarded with a Closer when changing his selection later.

Really, he should just have Honeywell.
The top of the queue tells him that that is who he would get if timing out.
It can't be spelled out much clearer for the drafter.

That makes sense to me, Dan...I'm in favor of anything that won't provide someone an advantage purely because they were inconsiderate of the other 14 players in a league.

[meanguy]

*Bump*

[Gekko]

from the Rules:

Time Limit for Draft: There will be a 2 hour time limit for each owner to make his/her pick during each round of the NFBC Draft Champions League draft. If a participant does not make a selection in the allotted time, the computer will select the top player from that owner's Player queue and if no player is in the queue then the top available player from the player's default list will be selected. If there is a computer failure, an error made with a selection by an owner or any other type of technical malfunction, the draft moderator can stop the draft at any time and correct the error and then resume the draft.

Do we know if one of the exceptions was invoked?

[DOUGHBOYS]

from the Rules:

Time Limit for Draft: There will be a 2 hour time limit for each owner to make his/her pick during each round of the NFBC Draft Champions League draft. If a participant does not make a selection in the allotted time, the computer will select the top player from that owner's Player queue and if no player is in the queue then the top available player from the player's default list will be selected. If there is a computer failure, an error made with a selection by an owner or any other type of technical malfunction, the draft moderator can stop the draft at any time and correct the error and then resume the draft.

Do we know if one of the exceptions was invoked?

None of those.
After nine hours and a time out, the drafter asked admin to replace Brent Honeywell with Tommy Joseph.
They complied.

Edit-
He had admin 'fix' his next player as well. This was an error made by the drafter in his selection.
He called himself, 'A Dumby'

[Gekko]

i'm not in the league, so i'm basing this on the posts in this thread; however as a neutral party, i have to assume one of the exceptions was invoked (maybe offline?); otherwise a player change would not be allowed under the rules.

[Money]

It just happened again to a different drafter. Now if Honeywell had not been placed back in the player pool this different player would have gotten a more relevant (kind of) player. For now the different drafter has Honeywell. I think he should get him replaced as did the other player. It's the 46th round at this point so who cares.

[KJ Duke]

I believe future slow drafts should have total time limits rather than a shorter clock as this gives more leeway to the guy who occasionally needs a full 4 hours vs those that are consistently slowing down drafts. Finishing in 3 weeks is a very reasonable pace for 50 rounds, which is 336 hours of a moving clock or roughly 2 picks per hour.

Proposal ▬ Have a total time clock of 1 hour per pick (twice the avg of all owners needed for a 3 wk finish). This accommodates slow drafters, doesn't penalize the "occasional" slow drafter, and shortens the total # of draft days.
• 4 hours per pick, 8 hour overnight pause standard for all drafts
• 50-hour per owner draft limit (overnight pause doesn't count)
• Any owner that exceeds the 50-hour limit shall be reduced to 15 minutes per pick for the remainder of the draft. This would particularly help in the later rounds for those drafts that have drug on for too long.

Let me reiterate and retweet myself.

ONE HOUR PER TOTAL # OF ROUNDS, PER OWNER, ALLOCATED HOWEVER THEY CHOOSE TO USE THEIR TIME DURING THE COURSE OF THE DRAFT. Once they've burned their 50 hours (for 50-round drafts), they get 15 minutes per pick with automatic picks that won't be rolled back.

This is a better, fairer solution for the game. The years of certain drafters taking advantage of other drafters needs to end. Not only is it good business it is a question of equity, sportsmanship and a level playing field. Simply shortening the time per pick punishes those that are usually quick and occasionally need extra time. Don't punish all for the selfish few, treat all equally.

This should be going-forward standard for slow drafts. Time is overdue to scrap the old, slow fail-safes of the pre-smartphone era. The first host site to implement this gains an immediate and huge advantage over the competition for slow drafts.

[Deadheadz]

Aren’t NFBC leagues still considered ‘expert leagues’?
Or has that changed since moving to Sportshub?

[Money]

I believe future slow drafts should have total time limits rather than a shorter clock as this gives more leeway to the guy who occasionally needs a full 4 hours vs those that are consistently slowing down drafts. Finishing in 3 weeks is a very reasonable pace for 50 rounds, which is 336 hours of a moving clock or roughly 2 picks per hour.

Proposal ▬ Have a total time clock of 1 hour per pick (twice the avg of all owners needed for a 3 wk finish). This accommodates slow drafters, doesn't penalize the "occasional" slow drafter, and shortens the total # of draft days.
• 4 hours per pick, 8 hour overnight pause standard for all drafts
• 50-hour per owner draft limit (overnight pause doesn't count)
• Any owner that exceeds the 50-hour limit shall be reduced to 15 minutes per pick for the remainder of the draft. This would particularly help in the later rounds for those drafts that have drug on for too long.

Let me reiterate and retweet myself.

ONE HOUR PER TOTAL # OF ROUNDS, PER OWNER, ALLOCATED HOWEVER THEY CHOOSE TO USE THEIR TIME DURING THE COURSE OF THE DRAFT. Once they've burned their 50 hours (for 50-round drafts), they get 15 minutes per pick with automatic picks that won't be rolled back.

This is a better, fairer solution for the game. The years of certain drafters taking advantage of other drafters needs to end. Not only is it good business it is a question of equity, sportsmanship and a level playing field. Simply shortening the time per pick punishes those that are usually quick and occasionally need extra time. Don't punish all for the selfish few, treat all equally.

This should be going-forward standard for slow drafts. The old, slow fail-safes of the pre-smartphone era needs to end.

Just thinking out loud here but 50 hours is an eternity. If each player used their 50 hours you are looking at a 46 day draft. Should the amount of time allowed be different per 2 /4 /8 hour drafts?

I'm all for going on auto after 1 time out as well. At very least each players timed outs should be tracked.

[Baseball Furies]

I believe future slow drafts should have total time limits rather than a shorter clock as this gives more leeway to the guy who occasionally needs a full 4 hours vs those that are consistently slowing down drafts. Finishing in 3 weeks is a very reasonable pace for 50 rounds, which is 336 hours of a moving clock or roughly 2 picks per hour.

Proposal ▬ Have a total time clock of 1 hour per pick (twice the avg of all owners needed for a 3 wk finish). This accommodates slow drafters, doesn't penalize the "occasional" slow drafter, and shortens the total # of draft days.
• 4 hours per pick, 8 hour overnight pause standard for all drafts
• 50-hour per owner draft limit (overnight pause doesn't count)
• Any owner that exceeds the 50-hour limit shall be reduced to 15 minutes per pick for the remainder of the draft. This would particularly help in the later rounds for those drafts that have drug on for too long.

Let me reiterate and retweet myself.

ONE HOUR PER TOTAL # OF ROUNDS, PER OWNER, ALLOCATED HOWEVER THEY CHOOSE TO USE THEIR TIME DURING THE COURSE OF THE DRAFT. Once they've burned their 50 hours (for 50-round drafts), they get 15 minutes per pick with automatic picks that won't be rolled back.

This is a better, fairer solution for the game. The years of certain drafters taking advantage of other drafters needs to end. Not only is it good business it is a question of equity, sportsmanship and a level playing field. Simply shortening the time per pick punishes those that are usually quick and occasionally need extra time. Don't punish all for the selfish few, treat all equally.

This should be going-forward standard for slow drafts. Time is overdue to scrap the old, slow fail-safes of the pre-smartphone era. The first host site to implement this gains an immediate and huge advantage over the competition for slow drafts.

ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY! Well said, KJ. Why is this so difficult to get? I do understand that "common sense" is often neither, but it's about time to innovate and get with the times for the sake of both better business practice and customer service.

[KJ Duke]

I believe future slow drafts should have total time limits rather than a shorter clock as this gives more leeway to the guy who occasionally needs a full 4 hours vs those that are consistently slowing down drafts. Finishing in 3 weeks is a very reasonable pace for 50 rounds, which is 336 hours of a moving clock or roughly 2 picks per hour.

Proposal ▬ Have a total time clock of 1 hour per pick (twice the avg of all owners needed for a 3 wk finish). This accommodates slow drafters, doesn't penalize the "occasional" slow drafter, and shortens the total # of draft days.
• 4 hours per pick, 8 hour overnight pause standard for all drafts
• 50-hour per owner draft limit (overnight pause doesn't count)
• Any owner that exceeds the 50-hour limit shall be reduced to 15 minutes per pick for the remainder of the draft. This would particularly help in the later rounds for those drafts that have drug on for too long.

Let me reiterate and retweet myself.

ONE HOUR PER TOTAL # OF ROUNDS, PER OWNER, ALLOCATED HOWEVER THEY CHOOSE TO USE THEIR TIME DURING THE COURSE OF THE DRAFT. Once they've burned their 50 hours (for 50-round drafts), they get 15 minutes per pick with automatic picks that won't be rolled back.

This is a better, fairer solution for the game. The years of certain drafters taking advantage of other drafters needs to end. Not only is it good business it is a question of equity, sportsmanship and a level playing field. Simply shortening the time per pick punishes those that are usually quick and occasionally need extra time. Don't punish all for the selfish few, treat all equally.

This should be going-forward standard for slow drafts. The old, slow fail-safes of the pre-smartphone era needs to end.

Just thinking out loud here but 50 hours is an eternity. If each player used their 50 hours you are looking at a 46 day draft. Should the amount of time allowed be different per 2 /4 /8 hour drafts?

I'm all for going on auto after 1 time out as well. At very least each players timed outs should be tracked.

Joe, we need to slice the time of the worst offenders. I'd estimate the worst two in a typical league are probably taking 150 hours now, and a couple more are taking 100 hours. So that alone reduces draft time by nearly 2 weeks. Plus, half the league will average no worse than 15 min per pick, regardless. That knocks off another 2 weeks. So now you're down to a probable worst-case scenario of around 3 weeks. Also, we don't want to scare off potential drafters with a too-low total time out of the gate.

As for time per pick I'd standardize that at 4 hours with the overnight pause because whether 2/4 or 8, it would rarely come into to play with a total time clock and 4 hours is generally enough time to cover an unexpected long meeting, commute, late sleeper, etc.