MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

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KJ Duke
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MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by KJ Duke » Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:23 am

OK, so I dabbled in changing methodology for this list last year, but ultimately did not change it. Too much work, plus I really didn't want to change it as I had used the same method for 15 years thru 2018 - I like consistency. But it needed changing because multi-entry teams were overwhelming higher-quality players in the rankings.

So this year after briefly posting the update I got complaints. The list didn't make sense. And they were right. So I spent a huge amount of time revising the method and re-running the point system for all 17 years to make it, once again, a fair assessment of the best ME players in the game - like it was when everyone had 1-2 teams, not 5 or 10 or 20 in a single year.

The adjustment shown as methodology item #2 on the link below for multi-team players is to average their rank score for all teams in a single season, then multiply it by 1.5x reflecting that having two strong teams (or more) is more indicative of a good season/good player than having one good team. But, unlike before, it will not reward a mediocre season where points were simply accumulated by having 4 or 5, or more teams.

The outcome is that some guys will move a lot versus last year's list, and for some the delta will make a much bigger impact than what they did this year. But this is a better list. Much better. And with the adjustments in place it won't need to be changed again even if players start taking 20 or 30 teams. Quality players will rise to the top and stay there so long as they keep performing. If you slid down the list, sorry you were ranked too high to begin with. If you jump up the list, sorry, you should've been ranked higher all along.

A few notable performers to mention, Scott Jenstad shot up to #5. Scott has done really well since 2008, and over the past 5 years in particular. He's been taking 2 teams each year lately, and prior to that one team. And his teams are consistently good. He deserves to be there. I'll compare him to another guy, name unmentioned, but he didn't play this year. He has regularly taken 6-8 teams each season and had shot up the ranks in the past 5 years. He's consistently had a few good teams, a bunch of mediocre and plenty of bad. He moved ahead of Jenstad and other players with better results under the old system. Under the new system he's still ranked in the 50s, good player, but no longer ahead of or even near Jenstad which would seem appropriate, I believe, to anyone that looks at their results side-by-side. For those wondering, because someone always has to question my intentions, my rank changed one spot (up) versus the old method. Other long-time players that we all know are good, still good, moved up much more under the new ranks, guys like Jupinka and Lindy. Please email all complaints about your new ranking to [email protected].

THE TOP 100 thru 2020

1 - KC Cha (144)
2 - Stephen Jupinka (141)
3 - Mark Srebro (136)
4 - Lindy Hinkelman (133)
5 - Scott Jenstad (131)
6 - KJ Duke (131)
7 - Brian Slack & N Sackett (130)
8 - Andy Nolan (130)
9 - Eric Albright & D Shoup (129)
10 - Dan Kenyon (129)

11 - Clark Olson (129)
12 - Steve Fiore (129)
13 - Ned Donohue (128)
14 - David Deterra (126)
15 - Jon Stadtmueller (125)
16 - Shawn Childs (125)
17 - David Didonato (124)
18 - Michael Mager (124)
19 - Eddie Gillis (124)
20 - Ryan Atkins & S Erickson (124)

21 - Emmett Ruland & P Gagne (123)
22 - Michael Edelman (123)
23 - Bradley Libros (123)
24 - Richard Kulaski (122)
25 - John Pausma (122)
26 - Dave Potts (122)
27 - Chris Fessler (122)
28 - Kyle Brinkmann (122)
29 - Mike Cameron (122)
30 - Scott Zeidman (121)

31 - Bob Mazur (121)
32 - Greg & Dale Morgan (121)
33 - Kevin Kirves (121)
34 - Larry Schechter (121)
35 - Vlad Sedler (121)
36 - Ray Murphy & W Murray (120)
37 - Donald Warner (120)
38 - Anthony Palavis & E Burd (119)
39 - Joseph & Michael Meehan (119)
40 - Philippe Dussault (119)

41 - Ty Parsons & G Headrick (118)
42 - Billy McAleer (118)
43 - Glenn Schroter (118)
44 - Leonard Ringle (117)
45 - Gino Yu (117)
46 - Andy Robinson (117)
47 - Glenn Lowy (117)
48 - Rusty Clark (117)
49 - Jason Duponte (117)
50 - Wayne Edwards (116)

51 - Pat Tremaglio (116)
52 - Douglas Jaffe (116)
53 - Paul Weber (116)
54 - Rob Silver (116)
55 - Matt Modica (116)
56 - Eric Price (116)
57 - Andre Bourcier (116)
58 - James Maples (116)
59 - Eric Heberlig (116)
60 - Martin Bedell (116)
61 - Gregory & Philip Glukhovsky (116)
62 - Damien passalacqua (115)
63 - Roger Garvin (115)
64 - Daniel Bronski (115)
65 - John Lemke (115)
66 - Jeremy Brader (115)
67 - Daniel DaSilva (115)
68 - Bill & Todd Macey (115)
69 - Mike Massotto (115)
70 - Joe Berg (115)
71 - Richard Vanfleet (114)
72 - David VanDerStuyf (114)
73 - Bill Strickler (114)
74 - David Geisinger (114)
75 - Ronny Mor (114)

76 - Rob Giese (114)
77 - Abdul Madani (114)
78 - Nick Cassavetes (114)
79 - Gary Allen (114)
80 - Ken O'Brien (114)
81 - Dan Semsel (114)
82 - Chris Liss (114)
83 - Brent Grooms (114)
84 - Toby Guevin (113)
85 - Marc Perlmutter (113)
86 - Jason Anthony (113)
87 - Ari Benjamin (113)
88 - Kelly Uganski (113)
89 - Rick Thomas (113)
90 - Michael Makula (113)
91 - Michael Gebby (113)
92 - Chris Plouffe (113)
93 - Jacob Halusker (113)
94 - Phillip McDonald (112)
95 - John Hogan (112)
96 - Dave Taylor (112)
97 - Jody Ryan (112)
98 - Scott Keikoan (112)
99 - Alan Greenberg (112)
100 - Matt Dillon (112)

For the full list of right click this link: https://nfbcplayer.blogspot.com/
Last edited by KJ Duke on Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Gekko
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Re: MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by Gekko » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:14 pm

Apologies for the laziness; however does this partial year (60 games season) factor the same as if it was a full season (162 game season) in your calculations? 37% equivalent to 100%?

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KJ Duke
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Re: MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by KJ Duke » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:32 pm

Gekko wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:14 pm
Apologies for the laziness; however does this partial year (60 games season) factor the same as if it was a full season (162 game season) in your calculations? 37% equivalent to 100%?
Even though I know this is a statement, not a question ... team management skills on full display, more than ever this year.
Same answer to essentially same question you asked before the season started.

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Gekko
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Re: MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by Gekko » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:01 pm

Ha, I don’t remember what I did yesterday, let alone anything I asked b4 the season. FWIW, I know it’s the “right” thing to say that winning this year shouldn’t be any lesser of an accomplishment, but we all know it is, even if some can’t/won’t say asterisk. That’s okay, your rankings so you get to count whatever you want.

Appreciate the response!

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KJ Duke
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Re: MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by KJ Duke » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:12 pm

Gekko wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:01 pm
Ha, I don’t remember what I did yesterday, let alone anything I asked b4 the season. FWIW, I know it’s the “right” thing to say that winning this year shouldn’t be any lesser of an accomplishment, but we all know it is, even if some can’t/won’t say asterisk. That’s okay, your rankings so you get to count whatever you want.

Appreciate the response!
You compete under the rules you're handed, and it counts. If anyone wants to use the covid excuse for sucking this year they can send it to my email in the first post above. 8-)

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Gekko
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Re: MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by Gekko » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:08 pm

KJ Duke wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:12 pm
Gekko wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:01 pm
Ha, I don’t remember what I did yesterday, let alone anything I asked b4 the season. FWIW, I know it’s the “right” thing to say that winning this year shouldn’t be any lesser of an accomplishment, but we all know it is, even if some can’t/won’t say asterisk. That’s okay, your rankings so you get to count whatever you want.

Appreciate the response!
You compete under the rules you're handed, and it counts. If anyone wants to use the covid excuse for sucking this year they can send it to my email in the first post above. 8-)
So a 1 game season would count the same as 162? Nonsense. any rankings or argument using a 60 game season as the equivalent of a 162 game season isn’t worth much IMO.

Sorry, I know you put a lot of time into this, but dont use a system that diminishes the accomplishments of owners who have demonstrated success over a customary 162 game season.

This IS the asterisk season. If COVID is still around next spring or COVID 20 is unleashed next spring, i have a feeling many owners simply won’t play season long due to how “lucky” you need to be.

And again, no offense to anyone who made a profit this year (me included) 😎

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KJ Duke
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Re: MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by KJ Duke » Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:21 pm

Gekko wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:08 pm
KJ Duke wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:12 pm
Gekko wrote:
Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:01 pm
Ha, I don’t remember what I did yesterday, let alone anything I asked b4 the season. FWIW, I know it’s the “right” thing to say that winning this year shouldn’t be any lesser of an accomplishment, but we all know it is, even if some can’t/won’t say asterisk. That’s okay, your rankings so you get to count whatever you want.

Appreciate the response!
You compete under the rules you're handed, and it counts. If anyone wants to use the covid excuse for sucking this year they can send it to my email in the first post above. 8-)
So a 1 game season would count the same as 162? Nonsense. any rankings or argument using a 60 game season as the equivalent of a 162 game season isn’t worth much IMO.

Sorry, I know you put a lot of time into this, but dont use a system that diminishes the accomplishments of owners who have demonstrated success over a customary 162 game season.

This IS the asterisk season. If COVID is still around next spring or COVID 20 is unleashed next spring, i have a feeling many owners simply won’t play season long due to how “lucky” you need to be.

And again, no offense to anyone who made a profit this year (me included) 😎
We still disagree, that's OK. Also, one game would not be sufficient in my view, 10 weeks is. But don't talk to Potts about one game irrelevance and his million dollar payouts - twice.

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Greg Ambrosius
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Re: MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:57 am

What a goofy hill to defend: Asterisks should be attached to all 2020 champions and the 2020 season. Stupid.

You take obscure views Mark, but this one takes the cake. You know how hard you had to work to manage multiple second place finishes this year and it took every skill possible. Was more luck involved in 2020 than past years? Of course. Was skill needed to win this year? Absolutely. The asterisks comment is so absurd.

And as for this comment: " If COVID is still around next spring or COVID 20 is unleashed next spring, i have a feeling many owners simply won’t play season long due to how “lucky” you need to be", is again personal. Make your own decisions on 2021. Why do you have to be the mouthpiece for how people will play games in the future? You already tried this in football when you went on Twitter and said you wouldn't play football because it would be a shitshow like baseball and very few people listened to you. Everyone made their own decisions and most people returned to play. If you think 2021 is another "asterisk season" then make your own choice and stay away. Many others will play because God willing our country will be in a better spot in March of 2021, but you never know. Asterisks, unreal.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius

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Gekko
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Re: MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by Gekko » Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:13 pm

Greg Ambrosius wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:57 am
What a goofy hill to defend: Asterisks should be attached to all 2020 champions and the 2020 season. Stupid.

You take obscure views Mark, but this one takes the cake. You know how hard you had to work to manage multiple second place finishes this year and it took every skill possible. Was more luck involved in 2020 than past years? Of course. Was skill needed to win this year? Absolutely. The asterisks comment is so absurd.

And as for this comment: " If COVID is still around next spring or COVID 20 is unleashed next spring, i have a feeling many owners simply won’t play season long due to how “lucky” you need to be", is again personal. Make your own decisions on 2021. Why do you have to be the mouthpiece for how people will play games in the future? You already tried this in football when you went on Twitter and said you wouldn't play football because it would be a shitshow like baseball and very few people listened to you. Everyone made their own decisions and most people returned to play. If you think 2021 is another "asterisk season" then make your own choice and stay away. Many others will play because God willing our country will be in a better spot in March of 2021, but you never know. Asterisks, unreal.
Hi Greg,

you guys are entitled to your opinion. same as me. good job to the folks who did well this year. but don't compare management and skills needed to succeed in a 60 game season to a 162 game season. you diminish the accomplishments of owners 162 games. that is the definition of absurd with a big ol * attached.

as for football, until the last week or so of the offseason, i was not a primary owner in any nffc leagues. as i sat in on the draft with the primary owner, i got sucked into the great drafting experience the nffc provides so, yes at the last second i signed up for a silver bullet and 3 cutlines.

you, tom and darik are the best in the business. if anyone decides to play fantasy, they should play nfbc/nffc. i've never waivered from that.

and yes, if covid is around in 2021, you won't have to worry about me posting.

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Greg Ambrosius
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Re: MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:46 am

Mark, I'm not trying to get into a debate with you because as you said, everyone has their own opinions and are entitled to them. However, NOBODY is "diminishing the accomplishments of owners 162 games." NOBODY IS SAYING THAT.

What we are saying is that the accomplishments of those owners who won over 60 games deserve to be acknowledged equally. Agreed, 10 FAAB periods isn't the same as 26 FAAB periods and managing starting lineups for 10 weeks isn't the same as managing starting lineups for 26-27 weeks. Longer seasons are harder, highlight skill and all the rest. But everyone started their drafts with similar information and everyone navigated the choppy waters the same for 10 weeks, so to diminish the accomplishments of the winners seems like a tough hill to stand on. I'm not sure if you're trying to build yourself up or just diminish others. Not sure.

Anyway, EVERY SINGLE CHAMPION this year deserves the same recognition and accolades as every single past champion. And if you don't agree, maybe tell Jason and other friends that privately. KJ is doing something good for the history of our contest with this Lifetime Ranking system and for a Hall of Famer to basically say "I'm not ranked high enough" seems self-grandizing to me. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're not saying that, but it sure seems that way.

Thanks again KJ for your efforts. And I think you made the right evaluation of 2020.
Greg Ambrosius
Founder, National Fantasy Baseball Championship
General Manager, Consumer Fantasy Games at SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @GregAmbrosius

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Gekko
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Re: MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by Gekko » Sun Oct 04, 2020 3:41 pm

Greg Ambrosius wrote:
Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:46 am
for a Hall of Famer to basically say "I'm not ranked high enough" seems self-grandizing to me. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you're not saying that, but it sure seems that way.

Thanks again KJ for your efforts. And I think you made the right evaluation of 2020.
ya, you are misreading it, greg. i had 4 second place main event finishes in 2020 and it looks like i moved UP kj's rankings from #6 to #3. do i think a 2nd place finish in 2020 deserves to be weighted the same (or more) as a 2nd place in 2019? absolutely not.

it's kj's rankings using his methodology, so it is what it is. just giving feedback like the others b4 me telling KJ "the list didn't make sense".

again, good job to anyone having a successful 2020 season.

and thanks KJ for putting something together.

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KJ Duke
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Re: MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by KJ Duke » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:47 pm

just giving feedback like the others b4 me telling KJ "the list didn't make sense".
Mark, just to clarify the "didn't make sense feedback" I got was based on the ability of players with a large number of teams to move up the list in spite of mediocre results. That flaw has bothered me for a couple years and I got the push I needed to fix it. It had nothing to do with the shortened season.

However, on the topic of the sprint season, since I have this historical data at my fingertips it is easy for me to find one-year wonders who had impressive seasons over the full 162 games, or even a couple good seasons, and then never again showed any skill. So if anyone got "lucky" this season, and surely some did, I don't think that's any different than past seasons. Likewise, I see tons of guys who have proven to be good players who again had strong seasons this year. So, bottom line, the data I'm looking at doesn't suggest any adjustment is warranted in terms of accomplishment.

Pick the right players, manage FAAB, have some health luck on your side --- that formula held this year as it does every year.

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Gekko
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Re: MAIN EVENT Lifetime Ranking

Post by Gekko » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:08 pm

Thanks for the response, KJ. Any ranking system will have pros and cons. Thanks again for doing this.

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