League vs League standings?

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:21 am

Any chance of getting standings for how the leagues stack up against each other? Shouldn't be too hard. just use the total stats each league has produced and rank them by points. I'd do it myself but I don't have access to all the stats.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:50 am

Here are the composite standings by league using the total # of overall points earned by the league members:

NY4 15508.5

LV2 15474

NY3 15140.5

CH2 14776

NY1 14665.5

LV1 14663.5

LV4 14662.5

LV5 14582.5

NY2 14463

CH1 14429

LV3 14400

NY5 14293

CH3 14042

Seems interesting to note that the two mixed call-in leagues are at the bottom.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:23 am

Originally posted by :

Here are the composite standings by league using the total # of overall points earned by the league members:

NY4 15508.5

LV2 15474

NY3 15140.5

CH2 14776

NY1 14665.5

LV1 14663.5

LV4 14662.5

LV5 14582.5

NY2 14463

CH1 14429

LV3 14400

NY5 14293

CH3 14042

Seems interesting to note that the two mixed call-in leagues are at the bottom. Just as interesting that a NY league leads the contest and all of the Vegas teams are spread out pretty evenly.

Of course, these results could easily be skewed by teams trying no SP approaches and not being at the top of the WHIP/ERA categories (yet?).

I sure don't feel like my NY5 league has been easy.

Dave

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:25 am

Thanks to whomever did this as I think those are very interesting results. What this shows is there was balance in every city on Draft Day.

viper · Post by **viper** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:54 am

Hard to figure out just exactly how to interpret these results. I can only think that a few leagues are a bit quicker in benching non-productive players and inserting more productive ones. I do know that in NY4 a couple of hot free agents have been picked up the week before they became better known. Still, that could not account for the existing gap.

I do see that my NY4 team is 13th in the league (and we were 1st just two weeks ago) but we are actually in the top half overall. That seems a bit unusual. Still, the season is just 1/8 over and there are lots of games to go.

Creating this isn't that hard. In as much as the person who did it has decided to stay unknown, I will post a similar list each Monday evening unless anyone objects. It is interesting to view.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:00 am

Viper, feel free to do that each Monday. I think it will add to everything else we are doing with weekly high bids and cuts. Thanks.

Return of the Aces · Post by **Return of the Aces** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:44 am

I don't know what the standings look like in the other leagues. But, New York 4 is highly competitive and no one is running away with it. The gap between 1st and 10th place is only 21 points.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:39 am

Jeff Howard did it and you're right Viper, it wasn't that hard.

Chameleon · Post by **Chameleon** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:09 am

That's interesting data ...

Of course everyone will have an opinion one way or another, but as someone in NY League 4, I can say that our draft was extremely tough, and there's no dead in wood our league. And there's nothing but rubbish on the waiver wire, too.

What will be truly interesting will be too see if over time that statistical range between the first place league and last place leagues disperses further... Theory and intuition says that it shouldn't, but I'm betting it will...

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 12:11 pm

Originally posted by Chameleon:

I can say that our draft was extremely tough chuckle chuckle

Originally posted by Chameleon:

And there's nothing but rubbish on the waiver wire, too. get real. i know of two leagues with far less quality FA

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:11 pm

Jeff, Thanks for posting the numbers.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:53 am

In case folks didn't see it, League vs. League standings are now posted on the front page of the Web site.

viper · Post by **viper** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:59 am

For esthetics sake, I would suggest dropping the fractions. Let’s face it, 0.5 points isn’t going to mean one whole hell of a lot in the overall scheme of things.

Is it safe to assume that I don't need to send a weekly update? I can see that the "League vs League" standings have been updated since they were posted here yesterday. Let me know what you want.

[ April 30, 2004, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: viper ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:43 am

Thanks for your efforts, Viper, but we'll update this every day going forward on the home page. Great suggestion by the way.

viper · Post by **viper** » Mon May 03, 2004 9:45 am

I see we still have those silly fractions in the "Spy .vs. Spy" err ah "League .vs. League" standings.

Brian Walton · Post by **Brian Walton** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:35 am

Has anyone discussed league strength as a factor to be considered in the overall team rankings? Not for this season, but for future years? I do understand a team's placement in a given league is totally random, but it would seem that the luck of being in a weak league could give an unintended advantage to some teams.

If this has been debated elsewhere, sorry about that. I looked, but didn't see it. If so, someone please direct me to that thread.

Thanks.

Brian Walton · Post by **Brian Walton** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:23 am

Bumping this question up, since it's been a couple of months. I am most interested, since NY League #4 currently has four teams in the overall top ten. A real bummer being tenth overall, yet out of the money both there and in the league.

Lot of baseball yet to be played, luck of the league draw, etc... but, I'm interested in other views... BCS formulas anyone?

Thanks.

[ August 04, 2004, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: brian ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:44 am

league strength should not be used. leaves the door open for some "unfortunate" outcomes. sorry.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:46 pm

Brian, that is incredible that four teams from one league are in the Top 10 overall. I was just talking with Clark Olson today and Las Vegas League 5 is another extremely tough and competitive league where a guy could be in first place today and out of all of the money tomorrow.

I think we all know the leagues are the luck of the draw and even if you have a few teams that suffered bad luck or had bad drafts, having four teams in one league that strong just shows how many good players were at our drafts this year. After talking with so many NFBC guys on the phone this week, it's fun to learn how many guys start their days by looking up their NFBC standings and stats right away. It's been good fun indeed and I hope all of these races finish strong.

As for the BCS standings, I don't think they'll ever get that thing right. Just have a national championship game after the major bowls and create another reason for a big-time game in January.

Team Herron · Post by **Team Herron** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:35 am

4 in the top 10? an indictment on the drafting performance of the other 8 paticipants.

Brian Walton · Post by **Brian Walton** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 3:48 am

Wrong, Team Herron. You mean 11 other teams, but I disagree, anyway. Check the home page of the NFBC and look at the comparision of league vs. league scores. You'll see that NY League #4 has the most total points by a decent margin. What that means is that on the average, all the teams in that league are doing a better job of making FAAB selections and playing the right players at the right time, making the competition in that league stiffer.

Greg, Las Vegas 5 is second to last in the League vs. League comparision. Wouldn't that be more like the situation that Team Herron describes, where there is a big diffference between the top teams and the bottom ones? Nothing against LV5, but their top team is currently #22 overall. I guess it depends on whether your goal is to win your league or to win the overall competition, too.

BTW, the BCS comment was intended to be a joke about coming up with a formula to take into account strength of competition...

[ August 05, 2004, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: brian ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Aug 05, 2004 11:11 am

I'm not sure what the league vs. league rankings tell us. I do know that I haven't heard anyone complaining yet that teams have just laid down and not continued to fight for position. That's GREAT news. Remember, everyone has a shot at a great weekly prize from Upper Deck, so there's something to fight for no matter where you are in the standings. I heard from one NFBC owner last week who said he was 15th in his league and he finished third overall for the week and almost won the Weekly prize. He said that proved to him that anything is still possible.

So I like the spirit of all our owners this year and I know most of them are planning to come back next year. There's no reason to discredit anyone in any league because from all accounts everyone is still being competitive. Good luck everyone the rest of the way.

Brian Walton · Post by **Brian Walton** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:13 am

I am not intending to discredit anyone, yourself or other teams. The rules are the rules this year and they are being followed. Teams are competing. People are coming back next year. Life is good.

But, I am trying to convince you that league strength should at least be considered for the future. It would help minimize the chance of which league a team is placed in from becoming a significant factor in who wins the $100,000, as I assert it is now. At least sit down and study the matter, perhaps after the season. That is all I ask.

Strength of schedule is precisely why the BCS was created for college football. While imperfect, it at least tries to take into account the difference between Michigan and TCU both being 11-0, for example. Sure, Michigan can win the Big Ten, but their goal is to win the National Championship.

Major professional sports have playoffs as a way to get past schedule or imbalanced competition during the season as a major factor in determining the champion. (Also to generate more revenue. Think about that one, too. A World Series of NFBC.)

Anyway, returning closer to home, there is no doubt in my mind that the (un)luck of being in NY #4 this season has made it more difficult for those teams to win it all. Sure, they can still win a weekly competition and fight to get into the money in their league. I do understand that. But, wouldn't you prefer to give away the big bucks to the best team, not one of the best teams?

Again, I am not complaining. I am just suggesting that when running a competition of this magnitude, one should strive to eliminate factors that the player cannot impact through their draft and FAAB management. Aren't those the factors that should dictate the overall winner? Luck of league placement does not belong among those factors, IMHO.

[ August 06, 2004, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: brian ]

SoonerC · Post by **SoonerC** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:08 am

Brian, I understand you point but I think you are way too quick too assume that had you been in a different league you would be guranteed to have had as good a team. Drafts are a dynamic thing and like it or not, the person that wins this thing with this many great players in it will have had a great deal of luck to get there.

PittIsIt95 · Post by **PittIsIt95** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:56 am

Originally posted by brian:

Wrong, Team Herron. You mean 11 other teams, but I disagree, anyway. Check the home page of the NFBC and look at the comparision of league vs. league scores. You'll see that NY League #4 has the most total points by a decent margin. What that means is that on the average, all the teams in that league are doing a better job of making FAAB selections and playing the right players at the right time, making the competition in that league stiffer.

Greg, Las Vegas 5 is second to last in the League vs. League comparision. Wouldn't that be more like the situation that Team Herron describes, where there is a big diffference between the top teams and the bottom ones? Nothing against LV5, but their top team is currently #22 overall. I guess it depends on whether your goal is to win your league or to win the overall competition, too.

Brian, before spouting off at the mouth, take a statistical analysis course.

Here, lets let the stats speak for themselves:

ANY league that has 4 teams in the top 10 clearly means that there are more VERY weak owners in that league. Very weak owners mean a larger deviation between 1st and last in categories

Your argument is that your league has the MOST total points league vs league. Well, no sh*t. When you have weak teams, the other better teams have higher totals in categories (thus in a comparison of 180 points per category, your strong teams smoke other owners in leagues that have the talent spread out over more teams)

NY#4 Best {worst} DEV

BA 0.2773 0.30 {.260} .040

Runs 11005 841 {565} 265

HR 2698 216 {111} 105

RBI 10461 780 {506} 274

SB 1278 122 {25} 97

ERA 4.1253 3.52 {5.01} 1.49

Wins 892 72 {49} 23

Whip 1.3326 1.24 {1.47} 0.23

Ks 11215 853 {576} 277

Svs 701 74 {5} 69

LV#5 (best) {worst} DEV

BA 0.277 0.293 {.264} .029

Runs 10921 869 {634} 235[/B]

HR 2695 217 {132} 85

RBI 10348 818 {597} 221

SB 1296 126 {63} 63

ERA 4.2473 3.79 {4.74} 0.95

Wins 890 75 {48} 27

Whip 1.3506 1.24 {1.44} 0.20

Ks 11186 889 {630} 259

Svs 710 71 {31} 40

Differences between 1st and last

NY#4 LV#5

BA .040 .029

Runs 265 235

HR 105 85

RBI 274 221

SB 97 63

ERA 1.49 0.95

Wins 23 27

Whip 0.23 0.20

Ks 277 259

Svs 69 40

Italics mean your league has a larger deviation

So based on statistical analysis:

Overall totals in each category between the leagues are about the same (Brian, this is adding up all teams totals :rolleyes: ), BUT NY#4 has larger deviations in 9 of 10 categories. So let me put this in English. Based on the deviation between first and last in each category, it is MUCH easier to get more points in the overall standings in NY#4 because the teams lower in the standings in the categories are weaker than LV#5. Hence, it is a top heavy league with weak lower tiered teams. LV#5 is more balanced with more teams equal (that is why teams flip flop alot in the standings).

In conclusion, NY#4 is like Major League baseball (unlevel playing field) whereas LV#5 is like the NFL (alot of good teams competing on a level playing field)

Please respond only if you have stats to back it, not some far fetched opinion.

[ August 06, 2004, 09:57 AM: Message edited by: PittIsIt95 ]