What Keeps You Coming Back To The NFBC?

billywaz · Post by **billywaz** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:21 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

quote:Originally posted by billywaz:

In all seriousness, although last year I pretty much decided to do it on my own, Gekko and King of Queens can be given credit for pushing me into the direction of a 2009 Main Event debut for me and giving me some helpful tips along the way. I'm still working on 2008!

It looks like a spot just opened up in New York.

Billy, you forgot the most important reason:

6) A certain slithery someone doesn't participate in the NFBC! [/QUOTE]What do you mean a spot opened up in New York?

And yes, 6) is certainly one of life's many bonuses!

[ February 10, 2008, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: billywaz ]

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:01 am

Originally posted by billywaz:

[QUOTE]What do you mean a spot opened up in New York?

Gekko dropped off the New York roster

billywaz · Post by **billywaz** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:22 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

quote:Originally posted by billywaz:

[QUOTE]What do you mean a spot opened up in New York?

Gekko dropped off the New York roster [/QUOTE]I hope he isn't thinking of heading to Vegas!

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:31 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

...and what we can do to improve the NFBC.

Thanks all. Not sure this idea could fly...but it just came to me.

Maybe call it a "Projectors League", where you remove permanently from the player pool the top (whatever number...say 10-15...or more for SP and OF) of each position...or the top (whatever number...say 150) ranked players.

You also create a list of draftable players (before the draft...with the removed players)...and new callups are not allowed into the pool. The large, but watered down player pool is essentialy frozen at the draft.

You could trim the roster size a bit to adjust...and see who's the best at projecting talent and playing time of those players they have left to play with...without the "stars/ringers".

Just an idea. (auction and multiple leagues in one competition could be fun...like a test for multi-league auctions)

I wonder if a league like this would create more respect for the non-stars. (because these non-stars would basically BE THE STARS of a league like this.)

~Lance

[ February 10, 2008, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

Plymouth · Post by **Plymouth** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:45 am

For me it goes like this:

1. It is all about trust, when you pay the kind of entry fees that are required here, you need to know that the league will be run in a highly ethical manner and that there is no perception of favoritism or any possibility of collusion or cheating. I don't think that you can ask for more then what Greg & Tom have provided for us here.

2. If you want to stand out in fantasy games like this and to be the best in class, you need to provide excellent service. The players need to know that they can count on the people running the show to address their questions or concerns quickly and fairly. That does not mean that there will not be disagreements from time to time, but, the resolutions have to be perceived as being fair and honest. For Greg & Tom, life on the bleeding edge of high stakes fantasy games can be tough at times but if you want to be world class, you need to be innovative and to acquainted with risk to some degree. I think the old saying goes something like this, "If you ain't the lead dog, the view is always the same".

3. The lure of the big prize, the $100K, some of us will achieve this goal and others of us will not. Is there anyone here that thinks they can not win the $100K, I don't think so, if there is, I would advise them to look elsewhere for a game. It just takes the right circumstances and a little bit of luck. You don't think so, just look at the Democratic race for president, Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama have a shot at being President of the United States. What were the odds of that happening a few years ago? Never say never! Every dog has his day, so on and so forth...

4. You can't beat the competition, where else can you find so many "legends in their own minds"? Seriously, the players are very good here but this is obviously not the only place where there are worthy players or Greg & Tom would not be raising the number of teams each year.

5. I think I get my moneys worth by playing in the NFBC. Let's just say that you focus on the NFBC from January 1 through October 1 (and I know many of us put in more time then that) but that comes out to about 275 days and if you divide that into the $1300 entry fee, it costs you less then $5 a day, where else can you have this much fun for so little money, get to brag if you win by having your picture in a national magazine. Plus Greg & Tom throw in the message boards for free, where else can you get that many laughs at any time of the day?

Bottom line it has been a great ride so far. The key is to not rest on the laurels and to keep looking for ways to make the game better by offering an even bigger grand prize and continuing to share the wealth with the participants because we are all in this together, when one side does well the other side wins too. I think that what Greg and Tom need to watch out for is how big can you make the event before you see a drop in service? We have all seen great businesses take it in the shorts when they expand too quick and let service levels drop. I am not saying that this game has reached that point by any means, I am just saying you always need to be looking for these signs. Krause too must realize by now, that they have a lot of eggs in the "Greg & Tom" basket and if that was to change for whatever reason, the NFBC game could suffer dramatically. Two horses can only pull so much of the load and the time is near when a horse or two needs to be added so that they can be trained in and the NFBC populace can start to interact and build faith in the new horse just like they learned to have faith in Tom & Greg.

It has been fun and hopefully will continue to be fun for a long, long time!

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:44 pm

Greg and Tom,

I think the six things you called out, to me, are 1a through 1f. You could not have this success with this event without equal measures of each. The money got me in, the competition kept me, the customer service is unsurpassed but all are equally important.

From my personal perspective, I think I am a lifer and only a career limiting conflict or the health issues of a close family member would keep me away (my own personal health is not a problem as wheelchairs and oxygen are mobile). I certainly have not won (yet), but fortunately in my life the entry fee does not place a burden on my family. I will play as long as it is fun.

I anticipate three major challenges in the near future:

1) Proper matching of entry fee inflation with necessary inflation of the top prize. This will be a marketing exercise, but there will come a point when you will need a larger lure to catch more fish. The $100k was certainly unique in 2004, but its' time will pass (maybe not yet, but soon). As well the fee will go up as costs never seem to go down. This is, after all, a business as well as labor of love. Tricky balancing act.

2) Many people have commented on the personal service. You and Tom will be/are spread thin. The only analogy that comes to mind is the preacher in a church that gets to big. He cannot be there for everyone and either burns out or gets help. And it is never fun to deal with the few whiners in the general population, so your current great level of personal service will be difficult to maintain as you expand. Look for the signs (I haven't seen any yet) and get help before it becomes an issue for you or the competition.

3) I like STATS, but comparitively their website is plain. No offense, but it is kind of like comparing a math textbook (all the answers are there) with a math teacher who was once in Playboy (all the answers are there, too, but alot more fun to look at).

Just thoughts.

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:52 pm

Well, this is my first year at the NFBC, and based on the comments, I've made a good call!! I'm looking forward to meeting and competing with the lot of you.

The butterflys are in full effect.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:28 pm

For me it's the feeling a minor leaguer gets the first time he's called up to the big leagues.

Wow every thing here is first class. Hey theres so and so I've been reading his stuff for years.

I can't believe I'm here with these guys. Than like most minor leaguers I go to bat and wiff. wiff. wiff. it's over until next year.

Thanks Greg for the chance! Happy 5th!

[ February 10, 2008, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Walla Walla ]

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:56 pm

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

What makes you continue to want to compete in the NFBC each year? What do you like best about the NFBC competition? And what would likely make you stop playing in the NFBC?

If you had to rate in order, what do you like best:

The tough competition with other die-hard owners

The league setup and rules format with no trading

The lure of the $100,000 grand prize

The comraderie of the event and competition

The trust that the prize payment will be there

The customer service and fun at the draft

Other

What I like best is the competition- nothing would make me ever leave the overall contest except a family emergency. I could see myself leaving the main event if it becomes 500 guys chasing the 100k.

The tough competition with other die-hard owners

The comraderie of the event and competition

The league setup and rules format with no trading

The customer service and fun at the draft

The positives far outweigh the positives. I do think there was a lot more hiccups last year than any other year and hope for a rebound. IE does the name Jack Cust ring a bell. I think Greg will learn from this excercise that he may rate the lure of the 100k a lot more than his participants. It is a pipe dream to a lot of players. Use the extra revenue to bring league prizes up. Srebro writes something about it not being a pipe dream to him in 3,2,1 [/QUOTE]I have not been in the main event but I must agree wholeheartedly. I think, a good fantasy player who works his butt off can expect to be top 5 on a consistent basis. With that being said, does having to come in top 3 out of 15 to at the very least, get your money back sound enticing?

I am as confident as anybody about this stuff, but 1st overall takes great skill mixed in with incredible luck, and you can't realisticably expect a great chance at winning $100,000 or even a good chance IMO.

I think if you made the league prizes,

$7,000 for 1st

$4,000 for 2nd

$2,500 for 3rd

Or maybe 3 places paid, 4th and 5th get free entry into the next year's Main Event would make the odds of getting something tangible in return much more realistic.

Much more enticing, especially for "new" guys on the fence deciding whether it's a reasonable investment. Because that's what it is. I know it's more about the competition and comraderie, but it has to make sense financially doesn't it?

Maybe that's just me. But I'm sure there are quite a few people on the fence because of the current low league prizes compared to entry fee.

I should probably express these thoughts on another topic as I'm sure Greg is looking for "positive" reasons why people go to the NFBC (which I can't answer because I haven't been there......yet). But I felt compelled to say something because $1,300 entry is steep when you consider you have to be in the top 15% of an elite league to just get your money back? Doesn't seem right, does it?

I know many of you do this for fun, I'm sure many of you who continue to go to the Main Event are fairly well off as well. But, in order for this to grow into the thousands, I think there needs to be higher league prizes. Maybe I'm alone on this.

What are all your thoughts?

[ February 11, 2008, 04:59 AM: Message edited by: Crazy Like a Fox ]

billywaz · Post by **billywaz** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:59 am

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

quote:Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

[qb]

What makes you continue to want to compete in the NFBC each year? What do you like best about the NFBC competition? And what would likely make you stop playing in the NFBC?

If you had to rate in order, what do you like best:

The tough competition with other die-hard owners

The league setup and rules format with no trading

The lure of the $100,000 grand prize

The comraderie of the event and competition

The trust that the prize payment will be there

The customer service and fun at the draft

Other

I am as confident as anybody about this stuff, but 1st overall takes great skill mixed in with incredible luck, and you can't realisticably expect a great chance at winning $100,000 or even a good chance IMO.

I think if you made the league prizes,

$7,000 for 1st

$4,000 for 2nd

$2,500 for 3rd

Or maybe 3 places paid, 4th and 5th get free entry into the next year's Main Event would make the odds of getting something tangible in return much more realistic.

What are all your thoughts? [/QUOTE]I am not in the Main Event yet for NFBC, but I have played in the NFFC since it's inception.

While I agree that you need a lot of things go your way, in football, it is MUCH different than in baseball, as it is all about who has a great 3 week stretch in football to see who wins the 100K. That being said, the object is to GET in the Championship round, as then you have a shot.

So in baseball, I actually think there is more skill in winning the 100K, as it is what you do the entire year, and it isn't all about getting "hot" at a certain time (all weeks are equal).

As far as individual leagues, the prizes are fine. This is a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP, not a league championship Crazy. If you finish in the top 2, you almost double your investment. If you finish 3rd, you basically get your investment back. If you can't finish in the top 20% of your individual league (3 of 15) more often than not, you probably shouldn't be playing.

Raising each individual league isn't the way to attract more people, raising the GRAND prize is the way to attract more people.

Hopefully it is something that will be done in the near future for both baseball and football.

[ February 11, 2008, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: billywaz ]

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:05 am

Agree 100% Bwaz. If you want a smaller scale and better ROI then that's what the local leagues (and satellites) are there for. The Main allows you to shoot for the moon while keeping you afloat if you at least show in your 15 team league. It's simply a different type of contest.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:42 am

Crazy, I'll respond without copying all of your comments: If you want ROI then stick with the satellite leagues. We pay EIGHT TIMES your investment for first place in those leagues. Pay $125 and win $1,000 for first. Pay $1,000 and win $8,000 for first. No question, if you're in it just for the money, the satellite leagues are probably your best bet.

As for growing the main event to include THOUSANDS of teams, I don't think that's the ultimate goal. We will continue to grow and continue to raise the grand prize in the future as obviously the odds of winning the overall prize shrink as we increase the player pool. I realize that and will raise the grand prize soon. But paying back the top five in each league -- with each at least getting their money back -- doesn't leave anything for the overall prize pool and trust me this event won't grow with just high league prizes.

Thanks for the feedback as all of it is useful. I think for your ROI interests, the satellites are the perfect contest for you.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:47 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Crazy, I'll respond without copying all of your comments: If you want ROI then stick with the satellite leagues. We pay EIGHT TIMES your investment for first place in those leagues. Pay $125 and win $1,000 for first. Pay $1,000 and win $8,000 for first. No question, if you're in it just for the money, the satellite leagues are probably your best bet.

As for growing the main event to include THOUSANDS of teams, I don't think that's the ultimate goal. We will continue to grow and continue to raise the grand prize in the future as obviously the odds of winning the overall prize shrink as we increase the player pool. I realize that and will raise the grand prize soon. But paying back the top five in each league -- with each at least getting their money back -- doesn't leave anything for the overall prize pool and trust me this event won't grow with just high league prizes.

Thanks for the feedback as all of it is useful. I think for your ROI interests, the satellites are the perfect contest for you. Greg, I'll leave the business side to you, obviously you know what you're doing. I can only give my personal opinion. I certainly don't represent the masses. Afterall, I am Crazy.

mrhambone · Post by **mrhambone** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:36 am

This is my second year playing and after year one I am hooked. Last year I decided to sign up to test my skills against a larger group to see if I could compete. Also the idea of a live draft in Vegas was very inticing.

I would rank them as follows

1. The customer service and fun at the draft

(There is nothing like the thrill of a live draft, and to be in Vegas with hundreds of others looking to create greatness on draft day was amazing. By far now my favorite day of the year.)

2.The tough competition with other die-hard owners

(I know for myself I wanted to prove that I could hang with the best. And knowing that I had to pick up my game in the off-season brought me even closer to a sport that I can't get enough of.)

3.The lure of the $100,000 grand prize

(Money, I like money.)

4.The league setup and rules format with no trading.

(Too much control is put into the commish when you allow trading.)

5.The trust that the prize payment will be there

(You don't have to wait till next years draft to collect money from, "Draft and let your team rot guy".)

6.The comraderie of the event and competition. (Seems like a great group of people.)

The only think I didn't like is I felt a little dis-connected with the other owners. Maybe that will change as I continue to play but it would have been nice to have an orintation or a little welcome party for whoever wanted to mingle. I think this would help rookies feel a little more part of the group. Even if it's just with other beginner's I think it would help keep people coming back each year to see new friend's. Also maybe keep it open to families and friends for those of us with wifes or husbands and kids.

That said it is a great event and I can't wait for March 15th. A little something I like to call St. Draft Madness!!!

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:45 am

I originally signed up to win the $100,000. Now I fly the 2500 miles, at great time/expense, for 2 or 3 minutes of conversation with Jill!

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:50 am

Originally posted by Sack:

I originally signed up to win the $100,000. Now I fly the 2500 miles, at great time/expense, for 2 or 3 minutes of conversation with Jill! She's a married woman Ken but what happens in Vegas and all that ...

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:56 am

Tom:

I know,sigh. She earned major points the first trip out West. Jill was gambling at the Stardust at one of the tables while her husband ( I'll assume ) looked on while she played. Any gal that can handle herself at the tables in Vegas is OK in my book.

[ February 11, 2008, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Sack ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:26 am

Originally posted by mrhambone:

The only think I didn't like is I felt a little dis-connected with the other owners. Maybe that will change as I continue to play but it would have been nice to have an orintation or a little welcome party for whoever wanted to mingle. I think this would help rookies feel a little more part of the group. Even if it's just with other beginner's I think it would help keep people coming back each year to see new friend's. Also maybe keep it open to families and friends for those of us with wifes or husbands and kids.

That said it is a great event and I can't wait for March 15th. A little something I like to call St. Draft Madness!!! This is an excellent point. As most NFBC veterans will tell you, the first two years of our event we had Welcome Receptions in each city with former MLB players as speakers. We put some expense into those, but we felt it was a great way to bring everyone together before the competition began.

Unfortunately, it was tough in Las Vegas during March Madness to convince too many folks to come to a gathering the night before the main event and in New York it was very tough to get anyone into the city a day earlier, or for that matter a few hours earlier. It was a nice gesture on our part, but it became an expense that didn't pay off.

I think down the road we'd love to do an after-event party in each city and maybe we'll get there. We need a sponsor to pull that off and right now that's been tough to fulfill. But your point is well taken and I'd love to find a way to bring everyone together either before or after the drafts to get to know each other better. Thanks for the suggestion.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:45 am

Originally posted by mrhambone:

Also maybe keep it open to families and friends for those of us with wifes or husbands and kids.

In the immortal words of John McEnroe...YOU CAN NOT BE SERIOUS!!!

This is our draft, not our families. They are not suffering near the hotel pool, be it an inside or outside pool. You would be paying little attention to them anyway. Get away from the apron strings and enjoy yourself, Nancy!!

Although if you feel that strongly about it you can shell out $50 for each family member to be your partner.

Sheep · Post by **Sheep** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:06 am

I think the spread in "Fantasy Sports" should get NFBC to it's 2008 target.

It is about 1) $100,000 (Page 20) as I explain to my children it is an investment for their college funds.

Hard to justify $1,300 plus expenses without the big payout.

2) Every team here believes they can win it all. We have all shown our abilities in our local leagues. But, how often do we get to go to a "Dork Dad Convention", the best day of the season is Draft Day. A chance to look across the table and compete against some of the best in the game. 20+ winners photo's shown (pages 24-25) are hopefully at other tables. :rolleyes: A good time was had by all who attended!

mrhambone · Post by **mrhambone** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:28 am

It's not my fault you hate your family Doughboys. But if your looking for ways to keep people coming back, as a married man I know the best way to keep playing is to keep the little lady happy. Showing a little insight to what your doing goes a long way. I'm not saying it has to be a fully funded rager, just a place to meet, hang out and chat with some of the other competaters that are interested.

Plus if you keep it open to friends it makes it easier to get them exited to join in future years.

In the immortal words of John Wooden- Consider the rights of others before your own feelings, and the feelings of others before your own rights.

See I can look up quotes too.

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:44 am

Originally posted by mrhambone:

It's not my fault you hate your family Doughboys. But if your looking for ways to keep people coming back, as a married man I know the best way to keep playing is to keep the little lady happy. Showing a little insight to what your doing goes a long way. I'm not saying it has to be a fully funded rager, just a place to meet, hang out and chat with some of the other competaters that are interested.

Plus if you keep it open to friends it makes it easier to get them exited to join in future years.

In the immortal words of John Wooden- Consider the rights of others before your own feelings, and the feelings of others before your own rights.

See I can look up quotes too. If you are around on Thursday, some of the characters will be in the sports book donating to the horses. You are more than welcomed to join us. I would check the message board a couple of day before Vegas to see if we end up at another Casino, but I think staying at home base makes the most sense. CC

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:58 am

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Crazy, I'll respond without copying all of your comments: If you want ROI then stick with the satellite leagues. We pay EIGHT TIMES your investment for first place in those leagues. Pay $125 and win $1,000 for first. Pay $1,000 and win $8,000 for first. No question, if you're in it just for the money, the satellite leagues are probably your best bet.

As for growing the main event to include THOUSANDS of teams, I don't think that's the ultimate goal. We will continue to grow and continue to raise the grand prize in the future as obviously the odds of winning the overall prize shrink as we increase the player pool. I realize that and will raise the grand prize soon. But paying back the top five in each league -- with each at least getting their money back -- doesn't leave anything for the overall prize pool and trust me this event won't grow with just high league prizes.

Thanks for the feedback as all of it is useful. I think for your ROI interests, the satellites are the perfect contest for you. Greg, I'll leave the business side to you, obviously you know what you're doing. I can only give my personal opinion. I certainly don't represent the masses. Afterall, I am Crazy.

[/QUOTE]That was hilarious- great response Crazy.

mrhambone · Post by **mrhambone** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:59 am

I'm flying in Friday but thanks for the invite. I think I might have set up my weekend poorly. I fly in Friday and leave Monday. It seems like more happens on Thurs instead of Sunday. I think I'll adjust my plans next year. Thanks again and good luck with the ponies.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:00 pm

Originally posted by mrhambone:

It's not my fault you hate your family Doughboys. But if your looking for ways to keep people coming back, as a married man I know the best way to keep playing is to keep the little lady happy. Showing a little insight to what your doing goes a long way. I'm not saying it has to be a fully funded rager, just a place to meet, hang out and chat with some of the other competaters that are interested.

Plus if you keep it open to friends it makes it easier to get them exited to join in future years.

In the immortal words of John Wooden- Consider the rights of others before your own feelings, and the feelings of others before your own rights.

See I can look up quotes too. If you check your NFBC Fantasy Sports Magazine...Ole' Doughboys looks like a proud grandaddy with his (what look to be) twin grandsons on his shoulders.

I think he was just ribbing ya...

...and giving a bit of "mercy" to your wife...unless she like to talk baseball, drink beer, talk baseball draft strategy, drink tequila, and walk a few steps to another group of dudes, and listen to what they are talking about (baseball).

...and if she DID enjoy all of the above...for 3 or more hours straight...she'd be Queen!

~Lance