NFBC Message Boards

I have a theory that the lack of confidence in Stats has now trickled down to the core player in the nfbc. I know I personally have gone from thinking the stats complaints were a little picky to being concerned with the integrity of the information and their level of customer service.



My suggestion here is just add your name to the list behind me with hopefully no inflamatory language behind it (Walla Walla).



It arms the NFBC with a better idea of just how big (or small) of an issue this is at this point in time.



Again I would encourage everyone to just simply sign on if you are very concerned.

If you guys don't mind me interjecting, rather than simply saying you're concerned please list specific issues that you want us to address with STATS. That way, we can go to them and get these issues resolved to make their backend support better going forward. We definitely want to hear about any issues our participants have that we can fix in order to make our events stronger in the future. So we want to hear your feedback and trust that what you tell us will be issues we discuss with STATS as well.



Just my two cents.

Tom and/or Greg: How would you rate the job that STATS has done this year?

Tom:



I agree with CHEST on this one.



I listed my specific issues last night at 3am in the morning on what what would be the most important night of the year. They doubled the stats on a day that EVERYBODY was paying attention. Why shouldn't I believe this same thing could have happened back in April?



A team in one of my leagues received the Stats for a player on Monday(yesterday)yet shows on the taxi today? This shouldn't happen as the rules state the player locks. In season, I don't make it a habit of checking rosters from all the other teams on a daily basis. Sound like a small concern?



Recently, STATS gave us a free agent bidding system ( nffc/nbc ) that was slow and time consuming. It took almost two weeks to straighten this out. Why should this have been an issue in the first place, the NFBC people lived with the same issues early in the season and STATS corrected the problem (to their credit) and thinks worked great. Was it to much to ask, considering the business you are giving them, to have had the NFFC properly prepared? With this, you also asked us to give specific examples and I tried my best on the football boards to supply this. However, why must we spelll things out for them, isn't this there business?

Today ends what has been over eight months worth of work/fun for me. Maybe I'm grumpy becasue I know that I'm going to lose a whole lot of cash by a decimal point. However, I can live with this fact if I feel secure I got beat fair and square with proper stats. A whole lot worse knowing that I may have gotten beaten by a guy that got his stats doubled in a game he went 2-4.



As always, you and Greg and the best and very responsive to the customer. It is what sets you a part from anybody else in the industy.



[ September 30, 2008, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: Sack ]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Tom and/or Greg: How would you rate the job that STATS has done this year? Solid. Absolutely solid.

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

I have a theory that the lack of confidence in Stats has now trickled down to the core player in the nfbc. I know I personally have gone from thinking the stats complaints were a little picky to being concerned with the integrity of the information and their level of customer service.



My suggestion here is just add your name to the list behind me with hopefully no inflamatory language behind it (Walla Walla).



It arms the NFBC with a better idea of just how big (or small) of an issue this is at this point in time.



Again I would encourage everyone to just simply sign on if you are very concerned. Kent, I understand how this is a fun time to jump on STATS. It's like making fun of Congress right now thanks to the mortgage crisis/meltdown. But I won't debate you that folks have a right to ask for help when an obvious mistake is made.



I won't stop the discussion, but I will ask everyone to think about what the alternatives are. Trust me, I know this industry like the back of my hand and the options for back-end support systems are very limited. Two years ago, there were four companies that were actively soliciting companies to run their games and two of them have left that area of the business and the other one isn't even close to an option for the NFBC.



The back-end support system we get from STATS is very tough to duplicate. If you can find other options that I'm somehow not aware of who can provide better live scoring, better live standings, better FAAB system, custom builds what I request, then send those names to me and I'll make sure they can bid for our 2009 contract. Seriously, I'll do it.



I seriously understand the frustration when things aren't perfect and your post will receive plenty of folks who will list their name here. I understand that. But the key is to improve everything we do here and that's what we're striving for with STATS. I think we have something special going here and the back-end support system makes that possible, but if the stats aren't right then we're done. DONE.



Carry on and I'm sorry I interjected, but I think folks need to realize that there aren't many companies left in the industry who perform the task that STATS does and my options are limited even if I was upset with them beyond repair. And I'm not.

Greg: Since you deal with STATS on a more regular basis than any of us, what's your take on how STATS views the relationship with the NFBC? Do they realize that they have to get better at this or don't they give a chit? This event is 5 years old.

In addition to the post above





A player received STATS in one of my leagues for Monday. He gained .5 with a RUN scored as my proof that the player was active.





Last night, when the INCORRECT stats had this team close to losing a batting average point ( IN ERROR ) this player somehow ends up on taxi for today. Lineups should have been locked, correct? If a guy plays an early Monday game, you live with that guy for the week.





Now, said player is back in the lineup. WHO changed this player in and out of the lineup? If this ISN'T a concern for every player that plays this game than I don't know what is. To be clear, I'm not pointing a finger at any specific player, but I DO want to know WHY something like the example explained above could even take place.

Originally posted by Sack:

Tom:



I agree with CHEST on this one.



I listed my specific issues last night at 3am in the morning on what what would be the most important night of the year. They doubled the stats on a day that EVERYBODY was paying attention. Why shouldn't I believe this same thing could have happened back in April?



A team in one of my leagues received the Stats for a player on Monday(yesterday)yet shows on the taxi today? This shouldn't happen as the rules state the player locks. In season, I don't make it a habit of checking rosters from all the other teams on a daily basis. Sound like a small concern?



Recently, STATS gave us a free agent bidding system ( nffc/nbc ) that was slow and time consuming. It took almost two weeks to straighten this out. Why should this have been an issue in the first place, the NFBC people lived with the same issues early in the season and STATS corrected the problem (to their credit) and thinks worked great. Was it to much to ask, considering the business you are giving them, to have had the NFFC properly prepared? With this, you also asked us to give specific examples and I tried my best on the football boards to supply this. However, why must we spelll things out for them, isn't this there business?

Today ends what has been over eight months worth of work/fun for me. Maybe I'm grumpy becasue I know that I'm going to lose a whole lot of cash by a decimal point. However, I can live with this fact if I feel secure I got beat fair and square with proper stats. A whole lot worse knowing that I may have gotten beaten by a guy that got his stats doubled in a game he went 2-4.



As always, you and Greg and the best and very responsive to the customer. It is what sets you a part from anybody else in the industy. I appreciate your support Kenny and your undying devotion to this hobby. Without folks like you, the NFBC and NFFC is NOTHING.



As you know, we received your e-mail last night and sent all of the e-mails to STATS as soon as we woke up this morning. They screwed up in setting the Week 27 code. Plain and simple and it shouldn't have happened. They've made my vacation day a pain in the ass and I can't even do what I had planned to do today. I'm pissed too. But this is a correction that they'll make and we'll re-run the standings and get this corrected for tonight's game.



The NFFC free agent system should have been the same as the NFBC from the start, no doubt. Tom and I ASSUMED that was the case, much to our chagrin. We should have requested the change, I guess, so blame us. But I agree with you there as well.



The alternatives are worse than what we have here now. I'll just say that. If folks disagree, then list those companies and I'll call them today. We need to improve our relationship with STATS and we're having that discussion now. Trust me, we are.



Believe it or not, I'm more passionate about the NFBC than you are. I'm not happy to see this thread at the end of what I consider a great season of hard work by everyone, but it's justified because the final day of stats can't be screwed up. When the integrity of our event is questioned...well...that's disappointing.



We're on this and we'll get STATS to fix this problem. And if we need to move on somewhere else, well, show me where and we'll consider it.

Originally posted by Sack:

In addition to the post above





A player received STATS in one of my leagues for Monday. He gained .5 with a RUN scored as my proof that the player was active.





Last night, when the INCORRECT stats had this team close to losing a batting average point ( IN ERROR ) this player somehow ends up on taxi for today. Lineups should have been locked, correct? If a guy plays an early Monday game, you live with that guy for the week.





Now, said player is back in the lineup. WHO changed this player in and out of the lineup? If this ISN'T a concern for every player that plays this game than I don't know what is. To be clear, I'm not pointing a finger at any specific player, but I DO want to know WHY something like the example explained above could even take place. ken - what league are you referring to and which team is in question?

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Greg: Since you deal with STATS on a more regular basis than any of us, what's your take on how STATS views the relationship with the NFBC? Do they realize that they have to get better at this or don't they give a chit? This event is 5 years old. We just had a teleconference on Friday with STATS and the NBC officials. The NBC officials want nothing but the best and have said so. STATS wants nothing but the best too and we're working on ways to do this together to make all of us proud. Of course they understand how important this is to them and they want to continue working with us for years and years.



We've always done a sport by sport contract with STATS and honestly I'm ready to commit long-term if it allows us to build in guarantees for all parties. Again, the back-end, white-label area of the business is changing faster than anyone knows and starting over would be DISASTROUS to the NFBC/NFFC.



Live scoring will NEVER work perfectly every night. It just doesn't happen. The core of what we have here is in place and can be improved, but it's solid. Check out some other football contests if you want to see what is going on with some back-end support systems.

Originally posted by Sack:

In addition to the post above





A player received STATS in one of my leagues for Monday. He gained .5 with a RUN scored as my proof that the player was active.





Last night, when the INCORRECT stats had this team close to losing a batting average point ( IN ERROR ) this player somehow ends up on taxi for today. Lineups should have been locked, correct? If a guy plays an early Monday game, you live with that guy for the week.





Now, said player is back in the lineup. WHO changed this player in and out of the lineup? If this ISN'T a concern for every player that plays this game than I don't know what is. To be clear, I'm not pointing a finger at any specific player, but I DO want to know WHY something like the example explained above could even take place. Kenny, nobody who started a player on Monday will have that player removed on Tuesday. Plain and simple. STATS will definitely lock these lineups for today if they haven't already. E-mail me the league and owner and we'll check, but I trust that STATS is locking everything to correlate with Monday's lineups. You have my e-mail and we obviously can get more done with that than on these boards.

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Greg: Since you deal with STATS on a more regular basis than any of us, what's your take on how STATS views the relationship with the NFBC? Do they realize that they have to get better at this or don't they give a chit? This event is 5 years old. We just had a teleconference on Friday with STATS and the NBC officials. The NBC officials want nothing but the best and have said so. STATS wants nothing but the best too and we're working on ways to do this together to make all of us proud. Of course they understand how important this is to them and they want to continue working with us for years and years.



We've always done a sport by sport contract with STATS and honestly I'm ready to commit long-term if it allows us to build in guarantees for all parties. Again, the back-end, white-label area of the business is changing faster than anyone knows and starting over would be DISASTROUS to the NFBC/NFFC.



Live scoring will NEVER work perfectly every night. It just doesn't happen. The core of what we have here is in place and can be improved, but it's solid. Check out some other football contests if you want to see what is going on with some back-end support systems. [/QUOTE]that's good to hear greg. i have complete trust in you. thanks for the follow-up and sorry for upsetting your day off.

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Greg: Since you deal with STATS on a more regular basis than any of us, what's your take on how STATS views the relationship with the NFBC? Do they realize that they have to get better at this or don't they give a chit? This event is 5 years old. We just had a teleconference on Friday with STATS and the NBC officials. The NBC officials want nothing but the best and have said so. STATS wants nothing but the best too and we're working on ways to do this together to make all of us proud. Of course they understand how important this is to them and they want to continue working with us for years and years.



We've always done a sport by sport contract with STATS and honestly I'm ready to commit long-term if it allows us to build in guarantees for all parties. Again, the back-end, white-label area of the business is changing faster than anyone knows and starting over would be DISASTROUS to the NFBC/NFFC.



Live scoring will NEVER work perfectly every night. It just doesn't happen. The core of what we have here is in place and can be improved, but it's solid. Check out some other football contests if you want to see what is going on with some back-end support systems. [/QUOTE]that's good to hear greg. i have complete trust in you. thanks for the follow-up and sorry for upsetting your day off.



[/QUOTE]Nobody here has upset me today. Today is like a day when we hate Republicans and Democrats, but unfortunately we only have two political parties in this country to choose from. Today we're mad at the back-end system, but I know what the alternatives are going forward. So we work through this and get it right. Just like this damn country has to do.



When the hell is this presidential election, anyway.

I agree that the complaints seemed picky in the past, but the last three days have been horrible, atrocious, inexcusable. Especially when you consider that this is the most important time for us AND the most important time for them since they (should) want to impress their clientbase going into the offseason.



From the messed up stats on Saturday morning to the incorrect live standings in the whole last week to THE WORST mistake of the season last night on the SECOND TO LAST GAME OF THE SEASON. Like the others, I have zero confidence that this kind of mistake was never made before and I think the integrity of the entire contest has been thrown into question. Really, really wrong.

Originally posted by bjoak:

I agree that the complaints seemed picky in the past, but the last three days have been horrible, atrocious, inexcusable. Especially when you consider that this is the most important time for us AND the most important time for them since they (should) want to impress their clientbase going into the offseason.



From the messed up stats on Saturday morning to the incorrect live standings in the whole last week to THE WORST mistake of the season last night on the SECOND TO LAST GAME OF THE SEASON. Like the others, I have zero confidence that this kind of mistake was never made before and I think the integrity of the entire contest has been thrown into question. Really, really wrong. If you honestly believe that Brian, then it's hard to believe you'd trust us again next year. If you really believe that STATS has screwed up the scores through the first 26 weeks and not a single NFBC owner caught anything, then you are correct that you can't trust us in 2009 either. If you honestly believe that, then the solution is simple.



What a shame. What a damn shame to think you've been hoodwinked through 26 weeks of fun. When you question the integrity of the stats, that's serious.



[ September 30, 2008, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Greg Ambrosius ]

I think most likely a mistake was not made, but I still am not confident that it was never made before. Not the only one to wonder, but I don't feel out of lined to be concerned about it. Thanks.

Overnight stat loads that are not true, standings that aren't true, live scoring omissions, changing of roster page without orders to do so, bad language filter on the message boards when none exist.

These are just some examples from STATS... for just this month. For the most part these have been fixed quickly. These errors have added up though. When nuisances add up from a product, it results in lack of confidence and lack of confidence results in losing customers. STATS has not lost my confidence yet, but the errors are flooding and straining the dikes (I said dikes and didn't get a profanity error!).

Maybe STATS just needs a spanking (I said dikes and spank). A call to them expressing how many customers are disappoined with their performance over the last month and explanations as to why each of these errors occurred would be a good first step.

Originally posted by bjoak:

I think most likely a mistake was not made, but I still am not confident that it was never made before. Not the only one to wonder, but I don't feel out of lined to be concerned about it. Thanks. You are questioning the validity of our stats, our scores, our standings and our product because of STATS. I take that seriously. Very seriously. I believe that the incorrect standings can be re-run today easily enough and that all lineups can be locked for tonight.



Again, you can be concerned and if you feel that incorrect scores are happening regularly, then there's no reason to ever play in a game like that, right? Why would anyone? But we've re-run standings before and we'll do them again today and make sure everything is in place correctly. This is something that can be corrected.

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

Overnight stat loads that are not true, standings that aren't true, live scoring omissions, changing of roster page without orders to do so, bad language filter on the message boards when none exist.

Dan, most of those above are from last night. I do not know what changed on the league message board filter, but STATS is looking into this. Honestly, Ultimate Bulletin Boards is a product that we buy and I'm not sure STATS has changed anything on it, but we all need to look into it because obviously something changed on the league MBs this week.



But we all deserve a target right now and I understand. Go ahead, shoot away. But the validity of the stats will not change, that I'll stick my reputation on.

Greg – This is SERIOUS! Seeing what STATS has just pulled on us (corrupted data), we as owners have every right to question it. I seem to remember that at some point this season somehow every team was awarded an “extra” 150 points overall because STATS had a “test” league entered into production data!?!?!? How does that happen? We as owners are the beta testers!!! Really unbelievable.



Even with there being limited companies doing this type of work, they still have to do a quality job or else they won’t have to worry about NFBC business. Please impress this upon them. Having statistics correct ALL THE TIME AND THE PERCEPTION OF THEM BEING THIS WAY IS PARAMOUNT.



[ September 30, 2008, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

Greg:



Well received, sorry about the vacation day. I have your email and understood. Thanks again.





Gekko: All I'll say is that it was in my league. Greg was made aware of it and I trust that he'll handle this. Matter of fact, he already has. Thanks.

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Greg – This is SERIOUS! Seeing what STATS has just pulled on us (corrupted data), we as owners have every right to question it. I seem to remember that at some point this season somehow every team was awarded an “extra” 150 points overall because STATS had a “test” league entered into production data!?!?!? How does that happen? We as owners are the beta testers!!! Really unbelievable.



Even with there being limited companies doing this type of work, they still have to do a quality job or else they won’t have to worry about NFBC business. Please impress this upon them. Having STATS correct ALL THE TIME AND THE PERCEPTION OF THEM BEING THIS WAY IS PARAMOUNT. I understand, but you're not beta testers. The hiccups this year were far less than any previous year, but last night has certainly brought everything to the forefront. Again, I feel it's a shame because it was a smooth season for the most part.



They understand. I hear your shouts all the way here on my vacation day.

Originally posted by Sack:

Greg:



Well received, sorry about the vacation day. I have your email and understood. Thanks again.





Gekko: All I'll say is that it was in my league. Greg was made aware of it and I trust that he'll handle this. Matter of fact, he already has. Thanks. ken - was someone able to switch out a player after the lock? i'm glad it got taken care of in your league. my concern would be if it happened in other leagues.

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

I understand, but you're not beta testers. greg - i've been a beta tester b4. i FEEL like one again.