Mark McGwire

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:46 am

Tony LaRussa stated that putting the 47 year old Mark McGwire may be a possibility come August 31.

Really?

47 years old and not juiced, McGwire may have found the one place that would be more embarrassing than a congressional hearing.

My first thought was that LaRussa was doing this as a favor to McGwire to give him more years on his Hall of Fame vote. But Hall of Fame rules state that the candidcy would not start fresh.

It still would be doing McGwire a solid, since the farther we get from the steroid era, chances are the more voters will forgive and forget.

Being old school, plunking him in the ribs may be my first train of thought, were I the opposing pitcher.

If the Cardinals and LaRussa are in a Gaedel-like circus mood come September, they could re-sign Jose Canseco as well. Hey, its a bad economy, and unfortunately, it would sell tickets.

[ January 08, 2010, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:46 pm

The real question is in which round will he be drafted?

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:45 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

My first thought was that LaRussa was doing this as a favor to McGwire to give him more years on his Hall of Fame vote. But Hall of Fame rules state that the candidcy would not start fresh.

I thought the same thing about the Hall of Fame for McGwire.

Minnie Minoso originaly retired in 1964. He was on the ballot in 1969 and recieved 1.8% of the vote. He was then off the ballot. Minoso then came back to play a couple of games with the White Sox in 1976 and then again in 1980. Starting in 1986 he was once again on the Hall Ballot for the next fourteen years.

My guess is that if Mcgwire did play, he would be off the ballot for 5 years(or maybe 9) and then have 11 years remaining to be voted on.

[ January 08, 2010, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: Navel Lint ]

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:16 am

Yes, that's the way it would work, Russel.

Essentially, it would give him five years off the ballot and certain non-votes now, to a time where known steroid users may have a chance to be included in the Hall.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:10 am

Looks like his mouth can actually speak some truth after all.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:34 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Looks like his mouth can actually speak some truth after all. Color me unimpressed.

He is speaking the truth now, only to avoid the hoopla before spring training starts and he begins his new job as batting coach for the Cardinals. For five years, he's remained in hiding and admitted nothing. My favorite spin was Tony LaRussa saying he knew nothing of McGwire's steroid use until today. That was good for a chuckle.

McGwire also "breaks the news" with a 20 minute telephone press conference, Sort of like admitting an affair to your spouse over the phone. McGwire remains integrity challenged.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:51 am

Who knew?

Oh wait, everyone did.

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:59 am

exactly dough. larussa is the biggest tool in this. shame that a$$hat won a WS with the cards. damn tigers!!

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:03 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Looks like his mouth can actually speak some truth after all. Color me unimpressed.

He is speaking the truth now, only to avoid the hoopla before spring training starts and he begins his new job as batting coach for the Cardinals. For five years, he's remained in hiding and admitted nothing. My favorite spin was Tony LaRussa saying he knew nothing of McGwire's steroid use until today. That was good for a chuckle.

McGwire also "breaks the news" with a 20 minute telephone press conference, Sort of like admitting an affair to your spouse over the phone. McGwire remains integrity challenged. [/QUOTE]Agreed Dan. This mea culpa does nothing for me. He states that he used steroids for A DECADE?? Sheesh, yeah, no wonder his body broke down. What this does is tarnish ALL of his numbers outside of his Rookie of the Year award in 1987. Then he was just a good skinny ball player who had 40+ home run potential.

He missed his chance five years ago when he could have done an Andy Pettitte and said exactly what he's trying to say now. He tried them because he had injuries and he wanted to help his team out by taking steroids and getting back on the field. That might have helped him a little. But Pettitte said he did it one season. McGwire did it FOR A DECADE!! He knew he was cheating the game the whole time.

This was a staged apology set up by LaRussa to take heat off McGwire come spring training. But all it does is put the heat back on him. No way he EVER reaches the Hall of Fame after this admission.

ESPN8 THE OCHO · Post by **ESPN8 THE OCHO** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:49 am

I don't understand all the anger and hate. So what, he came out and told us something we all knew. If we are honest we know that well over half the league were using PEDs during the time. It is what was going on in baseball. Also don't fool yourself, it still goes on today... to what extent I don't know.

It is unfair to judge these players during this time period as being clean or unclean. The accomplishmens on the field did happen. How are we to vote in a player like a Frank Thomas who we think never used? but might have. What if he is voted in and then evidence comes out he used? Do we pull him out of the HOF?

I always looked at it this way. I would judge each player on what they produced during their era. However with each player inducted during our current time period to have a "Steroid Era" labeled somewhere on the plaque and let people make their own judgements. To pick and chose is to assume most were not cheating and that was not the case.

Also I think people should stop taking this holier than thou stance. Truth be told most people in that situation would do steroids for glory and multi million dollar contracts and to say you would not would be lying.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:52 am

I don't have any anger or hate. For me, it's just a question of too little too late. McGwire had his chance to come clean and he blew it. I view this as a last-ditch attempt to try and salvage his Hall of Fame chances, not an honest attempt to set the record straight. Yeah, I'm cynical but McGwire hasn't done anything to earn my trust.

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:05 am

But Tom, they still talk about the hr's he hit in legion, college, hs, etc. And he did say that he would have achieved his numbers, including the 70 hr season, with or without 'roids. He even threw in a fake cry or two.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:10 am

I liked the apology and long chat with Costas in which he explained a lot. Is he still not being 100% truthful and/or lying to himself about certain aspects of this? Yes.

Was he more forthcoming than everyone else of his era, and could that set the stage for others to come clean? Yes.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:20 am

I think Andy Pettitte set the bar for how athletes should respond to their steroid use. I haven't seen anyone come close to him yet. That's the standard by which I'm judging all these guys. I think Pettitte was honest and forthright. He screwed up, admitted it, didn't try and sugarcoat it or gloss over it (the way McGwire did by saying his HRs would've come with or without steroids).

ESPN8 THE OCHO · Post by **ESPN8 THE OCHO** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:20 am

I just see it as a d*mned if you do, d*mned if you don't situation. I agree it was staged and he is trying to win people's hearts "votes" over. I guess I have just seen so much press and talk radio crucifying a guy for something most people would do in his situation. That is unfair.

If it is decided that PEDs users are not eligible for the HOF I am fine with that. If it is decided records are taken out of the books I am fine with that. If we judge all the players the same and label they played in the steroid era I am fine with that.

I guess I would like to come to an absolute resolution to the problem so we can stop talking about it.

If I was to have an opinion that counted I would hold a vote of all HOFers to decide if steroid users should be eligible. What they say goes. Then I would strentghen testing policies and 1st offense is a 1 year ban and not eligible for the HOF. A 2nd offense and it is a lifetime ban. Stiff penalties like that are all that will curb the using.

ESPN8 THE OCHO · Post by **ESPN8 THE OCHO** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:22 am

"But Tom, they still talk about the hr's he hit in legion, college, hs, etc. And he did say that he would have achieved his numbers, including the 70 hr season, with or without 'roids. He even threw in a fake cry or two. "

I thought Costas should have asked is it safe to assume that even if you had the ability to hit 70 hrs that without the steroids you would not have had played in enough games to accomplish that.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:25 am

No anger or hate here either.

McGwire has had numerous chances to come clean.Instead, he hid behind lawyers before Congress, and hid from everyone else later.

Coming out now, only when it suits his own personal benefit to have a job at the Major League level magnifies his lack of integrity.

By the way, I believe your example will happen, someone (not necessarily Frank Thomas), will be voted into the Hall of Fame and then either come out with a book or be found to have used steroids. It should be interesting, what unfolds, when that occurs.

[ January 12, 2010, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

ESPN8 THE OCHO · Post by **ESPN8 THE OCHO** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:26 am

Tom,

Are you saying you believe Pettitte that he only tried it once? I thought you said you are cynical. I don't believe Pettitte for a second that he only tried it once. He was abusing HGH the whole time he was in Houston in my opinion.

I guess I am the cynical one now.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:02 am

Originally posted by ESPN8 THE OCHO:

Tom,

Are you saying you believe Pettitte that he only tried it once? I thought you said you are cynical. I don't believe Pettitte for a second that he only tried it once. He was abusing HGH the whole time he was in Houston in my opinion.

I guess I am the cynical one now. I didn't buy Pettite's explanation either. McGwire sat down for an hour plus and answered every pitch thrown at him; I still think he is lying to himself about the effect on his stats, and probably lying to protect some teammates, but altogether a real admission, unlike Pettite.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:07 am

Sadly, I think we've been programmed to disbelieve all of the players who have played in the Steroid Era (sorry Bud that tag fits and isn't going away). I do think Pettitte was more forthcoming than McGwire. At least he was ready to answer right away and didn't dodge questions for years and years. For me, McGwire had his chance and he blew it so what he has to say now means little to me.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:17 am

Originally posted by ESPN8 THE OCHO:

I just see it as a d*mned if you do, d*mned if you don't situation. I agree it was staged and he is trying to win people's hearts "votes" over. I guess I have just seen so much press and talk radio crucifying a guy for something most people would do in his situation. That is unfair.

If it is decided that PEDs users are not eligible for the HOF I am fine with that. If it is decided records are taken out of the books I am fine with that. If we judge all the players the same and label they played in the steroid era I am fine with that.

I guess I would like to come to an absolute resolution to the problem so we can stop talking about it.

If I was to have an opinion that counted I would hold a vote of all HOFers to decide if steroid users should be eligible. What they say goes. Then I would strentghen testing policies and 1st offense is a 1 year ban and not eligible for the HOF. A 2nd offense and it is a lifetime ban. Stiff penalties like that are all that will curb the using. I'm like Tom, totally skeptical of this staged apology, There's no way McGwire reaches the Hall of Fame with this admission. He gets a job in baseball, that's about it. And now we at least know the truth: He was a cheat like many others during that era.

Here's the real question: Was McGwire a Hall of Famer before he took steroids? Of course not. He was the Rookie of the Year and a star with the Bash Brothers. But he missed so much time that he wasn't on a Hall of Fame pace. That seven-year stretch where he continued to use steroids because he knew what they were doing for his career is what defined his career and put him in the 500-home run club and talk about being a Hall of Famer. That's why he didn't stop using them because he could see what they were doing for him. Take the steroids away and nobody knows if he was talented enough or could stay healthy long enough to put up HOF numbers.

Let's see if Sammy has the guts now to come clean as well. Heck, maybe even Bonds will come clean before the voters decide on his Hall of Fame credentials. That would be cool if they both did. Then maybe we could restore the home run title to Roger Maris.

Now, does anyone think Maris's record of 61 homers will ever be broken?

MadCow Sez · Post by **MadCow Sez** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:41 am

Pete Rose?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:54 am

Originally posted by MadCow Sez:

Pete Rose? If Pete Rose gets in, the Hall of Fame will start getting a daily barrage of e-Mails and phone calls from this guy in Colorado that still thinks that Joe Jackson was unfairly treated.

swampass · Post by **swampass** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:01 am

I think everyone needs to chill about the Hall of Fame. I mean its turned into a real joke of late. these writers continue to baffle all, with their bizarre voting style. You know.. like guys not even voting or refusing to vote in players in their first year even if they deserve as no doubters. its a joke. the hall aint that hallowed now.

so mcgwire used steriods and failed to "admit" it. pettite was lying his ass off. he only used once? yeah right. clemens liar. palmeiro liar. bonds liar. sosa liar. arod liar. we all knew what was going on. we all knew he and sammy were juiced and nobody back then was complaining. i find it sickening now how all these bullshit writers are throwing big mac under the bus. ask those tough questions back then.. dont play monday morning qb now and act like tough guys. i very much doubt that Mac even cares if he gets in. Lets be honest sports is a lot less about team work and accomplishment than it has ever been. its about the green now.

we all knew what was happening.. "Chicks dig the long ball."

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:18 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ltD21rY ... r_embedded