Final Call To NFBC Ultimate Participants

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:01 am

While we're trying to fill up the NFBC's main event, we're also delighted with the response to the NFBC Ultimate, this year's $5,000 entry fee league. I'll give the kudos to Kevin Rogers, who started that thread about a higher-stakes event and got the ball rolling. We quickly had signups for an NFBC Ultimate Auction League and an NFBC Ultimate Draft League and now we have at least one of each filled. Kevin says we should try for a $10K league, but I think I'll table that one for another year!

We currently have 17 signups for the Auction and 18 for the Draft. Here's my request: If anyone is remotely serious about competing in either of the Ultimate Leagues, please contact me before Wednesday, Feb. 23rd. I'm not processing anyone's credit cards at this point, but I need to determine by next week if we'll cap this debut event off at two leagues or try for a third league. Right now, it looks like 2 leagues, but if 10 more people are interested we could make a third league.

If we don't get any additional response, here's what I'll do:

1) I'll propose to move forward with a 15-team NFBC Ultimate Auction League and the first 15 signups who committed with money will get in. Same with the 15-team NFBC Ultimate Draft League, which will leave some folks out this year.

Or 2) I could propose a 16-team NFBC Ultimate Auction League and a 16-team NFBC Ultimate Draft League. Yes, it's slightly tougher, but we'd also raise another $4,200 in prize money. We could either increase first place to $45,000 and tinker with the rest; or go to $42,500 for first and add to 2nd and 3rd place prize money; or add a fourth place prize of $4,250. That way four people out of 16 would win something. We'd still have to tell the final signups that they missed out, but those things happen.

3) I have not touched anyone's credit card yet, even though more than 30 guys have fully committed to this event. Let's give this next week a chance for more signups and then make the final call, okay? I'll likely seek approval for payment at the end of next week and have all of the credit cards hit for this one no later than March 1st. That's the plan now.

Let's have a sensible discussion here about the merits and faults of 15 or 16 team leagues from only those involved with the Ultimate Leagues. If you feel better e-mailing me instead, do so to my new e-mail address at [email protected]. We originally stated 15-team leagues and that's the way I'm going now, especially if we can get three of them. But I just want to get some feedback on the thought of 16 teams and either a bigger grand prize or a fourth place prize.

Thanks everyone. Within a week or two, we'll have the Ultimate Leagues finalized and draft slots selected.

hitmen · Post by **hitmen** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:21 am

My feeling is if you have enough people who will commit then go to 16 or 17 teams and add prize money. There should be no problem with lack of talent. If you can have a 12 or 13 team AL only or NL only auction league, there is no reason why you can't have a 16 or 17 team Ultimate League.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:13 am

Originally posted by hitmen:

My feeling is if you have enough people who will commit then go to 16 or 17 teams and add prize money. There should be no problem with lack of talent. If you can have a 12 or 13 team AL only or NL only auction league, there is no reason why you can't have a 16 or 17 team Ultimate League. If you expand the number of teams in the draft, then let's add 4th place money. I'm fine with 17 or 18 or 20 teams. This should be a TOUGH league worthy of the payout. Greg, shoot for 36 teams and do 18 team leagues with $50k first place, etc. down to $4,000 or so 4th place. Do the numbers support that possibility? Also, we clearly need sponsors to kick in special prizes for this

Dave

sandckaye · Post by **sandckaye** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:54 am

I would not like the idea of going more then 15 teams. It would require a lot more preperation time. We are preparing for 15 teams for Sat a 18 to 20 team league is not the same as a 15 team draft. I think we have a good thing going with 15,

. Lets not start messing with it.

Stan

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:30 am

Originally posted by sandckaye:

I would not like the idea of going more then 15 teams. It would require a lot more preperation time. We are preparing for 15 teams for Sat a 18 to 20 team league is not the same as a 15 team draft. I think we have a good thing going with 15,

. Lets not start messing with it.

Stan Hey Stan, what would the extra work truly add up to? I'm thinking I need to have extra players at each position regardless, so this is just using more of what I have listed. No need to give up preparation tips, just curious if it would really be significantly more work for you, in your opinion?

Dave

hitmen · Post by **hitmen** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:33 am

I am in agreement that there is no extra work. Your list is going to contain at least an extra 50 to 100 players anyway, without doing any extra work.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:31 am

Originally posted by sandckaye:

I would not like the idea of going more then 15 teams. It would require a lot more preperation time. We are preparing for 15 teams for Sat a 18 to 20 team league is not the same as a 15 team draft. I think we have a good thing going with 15,

. Lets not start messing with it.

Stan Dyv's proposal is an interesting one, but you are correct Stan that we shouldn't expand that way in 2005. Yes, Dyv, we could create the ultimate Ultimate League and the prize structure would be awesome. But since we sold this as a 15-team contest previously, I want to stay closer to that number.

Honestly, when I first thought of doing the NFBC I wanted to do 16-team leagues. I thought that was the toughest competition, but I scaled back to 15. I will only consider 15 or 16 for the Ultimate Leagues this year. I'm not sure it's a HUGE change, but some guys may not want it. Still, let's keep the talk centered there and the idea of adding more payouts. A 1-in-4 chance of winning money or at least getting your money back has some positives over 1-in-5, but I'll let you guys direct me on that.

eddiejag · Post by **eddiejag** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:11 am

I would'nt mind going to 18 , theirs going to be a ton of talent left over at 15.Lets atleast go to 16 this year ,a 4th prize is a great idea or more money for first. At 18 you could go with a 50.000.00 first prize that might attract more players. THE BAD [ass] ANGELS

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:33 am

As EddieJag knows, I prefer $50,000 as a first prize with 15 owners--but I've already bit the bullet on this one. 16 owners? My vote would be to allow it ONLY if it adds to the 1st place prize. We are all playing to win the league, aren't we?

Kevin D · Post by **Kevin D** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:10 pm

Greg,

I don't really care how many teams. More teams means tougher to win. It's the same for everyone. But since it's been presented as a 15 Team League it should stay at that number. I think we want consistency from year to year as well. For comparison and strategy as well as for the prospective customer. So if you do decide to go to 16. Make it the standard for any future years. If you want to play, register early or risk getting shut out. It'll also simplify the problem of rental space needed and other logistical considerations. The fouding fathers recommend drafting 80% of the player pool so how many teams equal number of draftable players(DP) X .80 divide by 23 players per team unless you want to add the six reserves for 29 total. The question is what is DP equal to?

[ February 17, 2005, 07:00 AM: Message edited by: Kevin D ]

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:28 pm

I agree with DYV, especially his comment: "I'm fine with 17 or 18 or 20 teams. This should be a TOUGH league worthy of the payout." However, since Greg has stated that the choice this year is between 15 or 16, I vote for 16. At least that makes this league different AND TOUGHER! Also, it allows two more serious players not to get shut out. I also think that this will not require any extra preparation. After this year, we can have a full debate on next year's Ultimate leagues. As for what to do with the extra payout...My first choice would be to increase 2nd and 3rd. Second choice, create a 4th place. Third choice, increase first.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:03 pm

I don't care what you do with the extra money, Greg - just occurs to me if I finish 4th and get nothing I'd be more disappointed than if I finish first and get a check for $40k instead of $45k.

Taking home $4k for 4th place in a tough league seems like an adequate consolation.

16 teams is fine - might as well have a little nuance between Saturday and Sunday, huh? Leads to more exciting stuff to write about the difference 1 more owner makes in a draft

Dave

[ February 16, 2005, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Dyv ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:43 pm

Kevin, 80 percent of the player pool is 600 players. With 16 teams and 30 spots per team, we're drafting 480 players. We could even go 16 teams and 29 rounds instead of 30 like we are in the NFBC's main event and then we'd be drafting 464 players compared to 450 in the main event. Hell, 16 teams and 28 players each (5 reserves) would put us at 448, although five reserves is probably too few. There's really not much difference between the two leagues then, although I admit 16 teams is a bit tougher than 15 (kind of the idea).

I'm open to listening. I was actually hoping to get 10 more people on the boards today telling me to hold a spot for them. But maybe this is our player pool for this debut event and all of us must make the final call on 2005. 15 or 16 teams will work for me, it's just that we'll be shutting out a few players, which happens sometimes. Keep the suggestions coming. They are diverse, as expected.

Kimo · Post by **Kimo** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:50 pm

It would be great if we could keep it at 15 teams. Thats what I've been preparing for over the past month. I also signed up for the mixed auction league $650, and also the main event. Since all of these leagues are 15 team leagues, it would be great if we can keep it this way. Not only for this year but also for future years. If you want to add more money into the prize money, just charge more. Lets make it a $7,000 15 team league.

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:36 pm

Greg, I don't like the idea of cutting back to 29 rounds at all.

That's moving us totally in the wrong direction. This is supposed to be a tougher league and everyone involved should come prepared with comprehensive cheat sheets. This is the Ultimate DRAFT league, not the Ultimate Making Moves on the Waiver Wire League!

[ February 17, 2005, 12:39 AM: Message edited by: Nevadaman ]

Red Sox Nation- · Post by **Red Sox Nation-** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:19 am

I am completely against going to anything more than 15 teams. I've been preparing for months for a 15 team league. Lets keep the prizes, # of teams, and rounds the same. Greg you can charge my card anytime. I gave you the number before. Thanks

Jason Duponte

Red Sox Nation

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:25 am

I wonder if those that refuse to increase beyond 15 team leagues would so if they got left out?

One way to find out would be to cap the leagues at 15 and draw from a hat to see who gets to play.

sandckaye · Post by **sandckaye** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:44 am

Greg

You once said on another issue with the ultimate league (i cant recall what the issue was)that if everyone didnot agree with a change in the rules you would not make any changes until next yr. I think you should do the same on this change.It started out as 15 team league people signed up for a 15 team league and I would like to see it stay that way.

Stan

Kevin D · Post by **Kevin D** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:29 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

[QB] Kevin, 80 percent of the player pool is 600 players. With 16 teams and 30 spots per team, we're drafting 480 players. We could even go 16 teams and 29 rounds instead of 30 like we are in the NFBC's main event and then we'd be drafting 464 players compared to 450 in the main event. Hell, 16 teams and 28 players each (5 reserves) would put us at 448, although five reserves is probably too few."

For continuities sake I would like to keep it at 30 players/team to stay in step with the Main Event. So 30 into a player pool of 600 makes for 20 Teams being the Classic Ideal a la Okrent and the Boys who dreamed this into reality.

Then of course there's the facts of actuality that need to be dealt with. We don't have twenty YET! so would it be possible to get twenty each year? Blah! Blah! Blah!

Having been involved since the inception of the NFBC I'm confident Greg will make what he feels is the best call considering all of the issues. I will wholeheartdly support his ruling what ever it might be.

seefer · Post by **seefer** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:39 am

I vote for leaving the leagues at 15 as that is how they were originally advertised.

It was made very clear to all that these were being sold on a first come first serve basis and anyone not securing a spot in the first 15 of each league would be left out.

With the Main Event and the Mixed Auctions being 15 team formats, it just fits the NFBC structure better to leave them at 15.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:04 am

My vote is to leave this as a 15 team league as it was initially advertised. The first 15 that stepped up to confirm should be the 15 accepted. If you are on the outside looking in, next year ( or for Football ) maybe those will react quicker.

jimwiz · Post by **jimwiz** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:33 am

I also vote for 15. I thought it was 1st come 1st served having commited early why let those that sat on the side lines and waited to get in be able to.

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:06 am

I think some of you need more common sense. its going to be hard to get exactly 30 or 45 people. so a little flexibility should be an option. one more or less in a league like this, to get off the ground, needs to be the way we go.

jimwiz · Post by **jimwiz** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 pm

I don't think you get it. If we go over 15 and don't get to 30 then the last ones don't get in. One less most of us would agree won't be a problem its just the extra one makes the player pool ever worst.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:26 pm

jimwiz and others, Thank you for providing the proof that the $5000 league is not the best players. Just those that have money to burn. The "I'm first" thing just shows that you have money so you think you should get what you want mentality. So you were lucky enough to find out about it before others. That doesn't give you the God given right to set the rules. There really are no rules. This is the first time this is being done. Others want in than they should be let in. If your scared it may be too hard than what the heck are you doing here??????