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Would he remain in pool? He could be a big boost to team or he can stink.

Originally posted by mallorys killers:

Would he remain in pool? He could be a big boost to team or he can stink. It's funny that so many people are criticizing us for taking the time to look at Grady Sizemore, but then asking us to keep taking out players like Beltran, Dotel, Vazquez and Granderson. We are not in the habit of removing players from the free agent pool and we don't want to get more involved if we don't have to. Beltran definitely would remain in the FAAB pool.

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by mallorys killers:

Would he remain in pool? He could be a big boost to team or he can stink. It's funny that so many people are criticizing us for taking the time to look at Grady Sizemore, but then asking us to keep taking out players like Beltran, Dotel, Vazquez and Granderson. We are not in the habit of removing players from the free agent pool and we don't want to get more involved if we don't have to. Beltran definitely would remain in the FAAB pool. [/QUOTE]I know you can't win on these Greg, and this question very well may be only hypothetical. How can you say Beltran would definitely remain in the pool and Sizemore not? If Beltran were healthy going into the year his ADP may have been higher than Sizemore's and Sizemore's just beginning his deep bone bruise saga, whereas Beltran is 4 months into rehab. Beltran COULD return sooner than Sizemore and is probably better than Sizemore anyway.



This is why Sizemore should be in the pool so somebody can take the chance that Sizemore comes back, this game is risk vs. reward. I'm in Sack's league, I agree with him that Grady is probably not worth the risk but I do not see an issue with someone else in my league taking the chance.



If Grady is pulled, Beltran should be pulled...I'd even say that Beltran is worth more than Sizemore at this point. At least there's a chance Beltran will be back, Sizemore's a shell of himself...even if he comes back in a month.



[ May 28, 2010, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Cobb ]

"It's funny that so many people are criticizing us for taking the time to look at Grady Sizemore, but then asking us to keep taking out players like Beltran, Dotel, Vazquez and Granderson. We are not in the habit of removing players from the free agent pool and we don't want to get more involved if we don't have to. Beltran definitely would remain in the FAAB pool."



Just awful, crazy and comical. HELLO! BELTRAN IS AS GOOD OR BETTER PLAYER THAN SIZEMORE!

I don't want to speak for Greg but in my estimation there's a significant difference between a player who has spent the first two-plus months on the disabled list and a Top 25 drafted player who goes on the DL two months into the season. I can appreciate people debating whether Sizemore should or shouldn't be available as a free agent, but there seems little question in my opinion that Beltran should be allowed in the pool whenever he returns considering he's spent such a significant time on the DL to begin the season.



Again, that's just my opinion.

Originally posted by ESPN8 THE OCHO:

"It's funny that so many people are criticizing us for taking the time to look at Grady Sizemore, but then asking us to keep taking out players like Beltran, Dotel, Vazquez and Granderson. We are not in the habit of removing players from the free agent pool and we don't want to get more involved if we don't have to. Beltran definitely would remain in the FAAB pool."



Just awful, crazy and comical. HELLO! BELTRAN IS AS GOOD OR BETTER PLAYER THAN SIZEMORE! I get it Josh. You want Sizemore in your FAAB pool. Got it buddy, loud and clear.



Beltran may be out until the All-Star break or longer according to recent reports. I'm not sure how that makes him better than Sizemore, but you're free to your opinion. On Monday there were reports that Sizemore might play on Wednesday. By Wednesday there were reports that he might have surgery. It's exactly for that reason that I chose to decide to not keep him in the two FAAB pools right away. If you have a hard time handling that fact, I can't help it. But I have no problem taking this week to evaluate his injury further and if I feel better about letting him back in those FAAB pools, I'll do it.



I'm not trying to pull all players out of the FAAB pool. Every league has questionable cuts and we're not jumping in at every instance. Play it out my friend, play it out. But a Top 25 player being cut in only one league in each national contest who could return sooner than expected forced me to jump in. I could have let it go, but I have no problem evaluating his status this week and then making another judgement. No problem with that.

I cant believe Grady Sizemore is getting this much time on the boards. The guy sucks healthy or not, we all saw it the first six weeks of the season. Move on Grady Sizemore isnt getting anyone over the top. Actually you should be happy that he is pulled because all he is gonna do is cost u to waste your faab money on a dud. You cant produce if your not healthy. Elbow last year, knee this year. Id say the guy is about done until he resolves all of his problems. Its not 2005-2008 its 2010 he sucks.

Greg,



I will drop this but here is why you are wrong. There are many other productive players that are dropped that you have not touched. Also I may have a shot at landing Grady this week because of his injury status. If I want to use my free agent dollars to roll the dice that he may come back and I get him at a discount great. You waiting for his injury status to become clear totally eliminates me from the Sizemore equation if I want to be part of it. That is because 1- You put him back if he is rendered useless, in which case I don't want him. 2- HE is allowed back and is going to play and I would not have enough to get him.



Part of my frustration is that my team is terrible. The other is that I think this is a poor decision. I have been jealous of other league drops since I started this competition and I finally look at my drop list and score a potential break only to have that opportunity ripped from me for no good reason. I think the majority of the community agree.



Anyway I will drop it, even if you would like to respond this will be the end for me. Obviously you know where I and the greater community of NFBC stand.

I have no problem with sizemore getting pulled if someone can explain why granderson and vasquez were not pulled. They have been better than sizemore. I dont care if its a 12 or 15 team league. There value in both formats deserve an explanation, and I haven't heard one. If its a rational explanation, I'm all ears.

It's funny that so many people are criticizing us for taking the time to look at Grady Sizemore, but then asking us to keep taking out players like Beltran, Dotel, Vazquez and Granderson. We are not in the habit of removing players from the free agent pool and we don't want to get more involved if we don't have to. Beltran definitely would remain in the FAAB pool.





This is exactly the point. Why would you remove sizemore from the pool. He is no better than Beltran, Dotel, Vasquez, or granderson, so why remove hom. For the record I have no interest in geting Sizemore.

Originally posted by Bo's Bombers:

I have no problem with sizemore getting pulled if someone can explain why granderson and vasquez were not pulled. They have been better than sizemore. I dont care if its a 12 or 15 team league. There value in both formats deserve an explanation, and I haven't heard one. If its a rational explanation, I'm all ears. Bottom line is it was a very poor decision and will be made even worse when he is put back in at a later date.

JFTR, I don't think this one is an "IF". Beltran was dropped in a main event league about 3 weeks ago. He was picked up the following week for 650 or so.

Originally posted by ESPN8 THE OCHO:

Greg,



I will drop this but here is why you are wrong. There are many other productive players that are dropped that you have not touched. Also I may have a shot at landing Grady this week because of his injury status. If I want to use my free agent dollars to roll the dice that he may come back and I get him at a discount great. You waiting for his injury status to become clear totally eliminates me from the Sizemore equation if I want to be part of it. That is because 1- You put him back if he is rendered useless, in which case I don't want him. 2- HE is allowed back and is going to play and I would not have enough to get him.



Part of my frustration is that my team is terrible. The other is that I think this is a poor decision. I have been jealous of other league drops since I started this competition and I finally look at my drop list and score a potential break only to have that opportunity ripped from me for no good reason. I think the majority of the community agree.



Anyway I will drop it, even if you would like to respond this will be the end for me. Obviously you know where I and the greater community of NFBC stand. I understand your frustration and your points, Josh. I've stated why I pulled him and it's okay if folks disagree. I've had time to evaluate Sizemore and his injury better, which I felt was needed.



This is our seventh year together and I know folks want the leagues to play out, good moves and bad. I've let that happen through the years, but sometimes I just felt I had to jump in. This was one of them, whether folks agree or not.



I'll try to stay out of the free agent pool going forward, but we have to keep a close eye on it nonetheless.

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by ESPN8 THE OCHO:

Greg,



I will drop this but here is why you are wrong. There are many other productive players that are dropped that you have not touched. Also I may have a shot at landing Grady this week because of his injury status. If I want to use my free agent dollars to roll the dice that he may come back and I get him at a discount great. You waiting for his injury status to become clear totally eliminates me from the Sizemore equation if I want to be part of it. That is because 1- You put him back if he is rendered useless, in which case I don't want him. 2- HE is allowed back and is going to play and I would not have enough to get him.



Part of my frustration is that my team is terrible. The other is that I think this is a poor decision. I have been jealous of other league drops since I started this competition and I finally look at my drop list and score a potential break only to have that opportunity ripped from me for no good reason. I think the majority of the community agree.



Anyway I will drop it, even if you would like to respond this will be the end for me. Obviously you know where I and the greater community of NFBC stand. I understand your frustration and your points, Josh. I've stated why I pulled him and it's okay if folks disagree. I've had time to evaluate Sizemore and his injury better, which I felt was needed.



This is our seventh year together and I know folks want the leagues to play out, good moves and bad. I've let that happen through the years, but sometimes I just felt I had to jump in. This was one of them, whether folks agree or not.



I'll try to stay out of the free agent pool going forward, but we have to keep a close eye on it nonetheless. [/QUOTE]Greg: not trying to be a douche- its just looks like you have dug in your heels and are sticking by your immediate decision even though it appears very unlikely that Sizemorew will contribute anything. "IF" its your ego- put it aside and let them bid on Grady. I own him in a trading league and I can't get a bag of chips for him.



Very few people would object to your putting him back into the pool. The much greater majority feel passionately in the reverse. I expect that many owners will drop him this Sunday.



Just my 1 cent.

Originally posted by mallorys killers:

Would he remain in pool? He could be a big boost to team or he can stink. For your information, he was dropped in Las Vegas WK 1 league 3. He went for $654. The runner up bid was $209. Beltran was a great player, but he was drafted after round 10. There was/is no timetable for his return. If he returns, there is no way of knowing at what level he will play at.



Now if someone drops him a week before he could return to the majors, this would look to be a questionable move.

Originally posted by ESPN8 THE OCHO:

"It's funny that so many people are criticizing us for taking the time to look at Grady Sizemore, but then asking us to keep taking out players like Beltran, Dotel, Vazquez and Granderson. We are not in the habit of removing players from the free agent pool and we don't want to get more involved if we don't have to. Beltran definitely would remain in the FAAB pool."



Just awful, crazy and comical. HELLO! BELTRAN IS AS GOOD OR BETTER PLAYER THAN SIZEMORE! There is no comparison here. Beltran was a great player before he had surgery earlier in the year. His timetable for return has always been in question. I'm not sure what his ADP was, but it was after round 10.



The Sizemore injury could knock him out for the season, but a few years back Coco Crisp hurt his wrist and he looked like he was done for three months. Many players dropped him only to see him back in the Indians lineup in two weeks. I know Coco Crisp isn't the same player as Sizemore. If Sizemore returned in two weeks, there would be some disappointed owners who dropped him. When a player gets drafted in the second round, he doesn't usually get dropped unless he is done for the year. Who knows what will happen, but Greg thought it was better to remove the player.



In the history of the NFBC, I can't remember too many second round picks being dropped.



[ May 29, 2010, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: CC's Desperados ]

Originally posted by Bo's Bombers:

I have no problem with sizemore getting pulled if someone can explain why granderson and vasquez were not pulled. They have been better than sizemore. I dont care if its a 12 or 15 team league. There value in both formats deserve an explanation, and I haven't heard one. If its a rational explanation, I'm all ears. When you look at the free agent pool in 12 team leagues, there are good pitchers available every week and there are many batters getting full time at bats.



When you look at a 15 team league free agent pool, you will find a poor inventory of pitchers and you won't find many players that get full time at bats.



There's is huge difference in the two leagues.

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

quote:Originally posted by Bo's Bombers:

I have no problem with sizemore getting pulled if someone can explain why granderson and vasquez were not pulled. They have been better than sizemore. I dont care if its a 12 or 15 team league. There value in both formats deserve an explanation, and I haven't heard one. If its a rational explanation, I'm all ears. When you look at the free agent pool in 12 team leagues, there are good pitchers available every week and there are many batters getting full time at bats.



When you look at a 15 team league free agent pool, you will find a poor inventory of pitchers and you won't find many players that get full time at bats.



There's is huge difference in the two leagues. [/QUOTE]

Originally posted by Dub:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by ESPN8 THE OCHO:

[qb] Greg: not trying to be a douche- its just looks like you have dug in your heels and are sticking by your immediate decision even though it appears very unlikely that Sizemorew will contribute anything. "IF" its your ego- put it aside and let them bid on Grady. I own him in a trading league and I can't get a bag of chips for him.



Very few people would object to your putting him back into the pool. The much greater majority feel passionately in the reverse. I expect that many owners will drop him this Sunday.



Just my 1 cent. [/QUOTE]Hah, trust me my ego was checked at the door long ago. In fact, it was demolished during the first few weeks of this NFBC season.



If it looks like Sizemore will be out longer than first reported and he is dropped in other leagues, I'll most definitely look at his situation on Monday. I wouldn't put him back in the pool this week for those two leagues, but I will re-evaluate his status on Monday and rule accordingly. His injury status is a little more known today than it was on Monday, which is all I was looking for.

Shawn makes great points. Dub I think it is dangerous to assume that because the great majority of posters disagree that it is an accurate sample size. I think Greg got this one 100% correct and I know others who do too. I see the other side's points but this is not a lay up decision on either side.

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

Shawn makes great points. Dub I think it is dangerous to assume that because the great majority of posters disagree that it is an accurate sample size. I think Greg got this one 100% correct and I know others who do too. I see the other side's points but this is not a lay up decision on either side. All the players being thrown out there as being potentially pulled from the FAAB pool are far from a "lay up decision" and that's why I believe Greg has strayed in the wrong direction in the current Sizemore ruling. I believe that if collusion is not involved, only those who are "lay up decisions" should be pulled.



I also believe that draft ADP should have nothing to do with the decision this far into the season. Alex Rios was not drafted anywhere near as high as Sizemore and I'd bet his ADP was at least a 1/2 dozen rounds lower. Yet if he was dropped today, there would be little doubt that he should be pulled and I think there would be very little argument as to why.



I think the criteria should be whether there was valid reason for the player in question to be dropped. Obviously there is in Sizemore's case. In the case of a Rios, there's no argument you can make as to why a player producing like that would be dropped. Keep it simple.



People questioned the Javier Vazquez drop. I don't. He's been crappy, he's got a history of being crappy as a Yankee, and he was hurt. There's several valid reasons for him to be dropped. A player who's ADP was the same round as Vazquez, Ubaldo Jiminez, would create a furor if he were dropped.



Basically my point is if it's questionable on whether to pull him or not, don't. It should be an absolutely obvious move to pull a player from the pool.



All that said, I agree with Steve Quahogs completely in that I'd rather have someone who cares enough to consider all consequences of an action before making a final decision, than someone who just makes a quick trigger call and tells everyone to live with it. I think that's what separates Greg from your average contest operator.



Glenn



[ May 29, 2010, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Glenneration X ]

The bottom line is that Greg shouldn't mess with the player pool at all unless collusion is taking place.



The reason you can't win is that you are playing a loser's game. Don't try to micromanage this thing. Let the leagues play out on their own. You have opened a HUGE can of worms here than can taint the contest even more.

Originally posted by Glenneration X:



All that said, I agree with Steve Quahogs completely in that I'd rather have someone who cares enough to consider all consequences of an action before making a final decision, than someone who just makes a quick trigger call and tells everyone to live with it. I think that's what separates Greg from your average contest operator.

Most agree with this- I do. Either way, I dont see this decision deciding the 100K or the 80K.



If Grady is done for the season, where do you think he gets drafted next season assuming he is ready by the spring? round 15?

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

quote:Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

Shawn makes great points. Dub I think it is dangerous to assume that because the great majority of posters disagree that it is an accurate sample size. I think Greg got this one 100% correct and I know others who do too. I see the other side's points but this is not a lay up decision on either side. All the players being thrown out there as being potentially pulled from the FAAB pool are far from a "lay up decision" and that's why I believe Greg has strayed in the wrong direction in the current Sizemore ruling. I believe that if collusion is not involved, only those who are "lay up decisions" should be pulled.



I also believe that draft ADP should have nothing to do with the decision this far into the season. Alex Rios was not drafted anywhere near as high as Sizemore and I'd bet his ADP was at least a 1/2 dozen rounds lower. Yet if he was dropped today, there would be little doubt that he should be pulled and I think there would be very little argument as to why.



I think the criteria should be whether there was valid reason for the player in question to be dropped. Obviously there is in Sizemore's case. In the case of a Rios, there's no argument you can make as to why a player producing like that would be dropped. Keep it simple.



People questioned the Javier Vazquez drop. I don't. He's been crappy, he's got a history of being crappy as a Yankee, and he was hurt. There's several valid reasons for him to be dropped. A player who's ADP was the same round as Vazquez, Ubaldo Jiminez, would create a furor if he were dropped.



Basically my point is if it's questionable on whether to pull him or not, don't. It should be an absolutely obvious move to pull a player from the pool.



All that said, I agree with Steve Quahogs completely in that I'd rather have someone who cares enough to consider all consequences of an action before making a final decision, than someone who just makes a quick trigger call and tells everyone to live with it. I think that's what separates Greg from your average contest operator.



Glenn [/QUOTE]Glenn i couldnt have said it any better and keep it simple.Grady should have not been pulled and dont want to hear the adp crap.If the draft was today what round would he go ,15th maybe.

Yet a Rios or a Jimenez is an easy decision and has nothing to do with adp crap.Dont get involved unless it's an easy call.

Glenn's post is right on. Greg erred on the side of caution. I believe you'll see Sizemore added to the pools on Monday. Once the decision was made, he had to stick with it.