Roger Maris

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:28 am

This year is the 50th anniverary of the 1961 season. Billy Crystal has immortalized the '61 season in his movie. But for fantasy players and baseball nerds, the movie didn't cut deep enough.

From a logistical point of view, Roger Maris was a product that blended perfectly with the short porch in right field at Yankee Stadium. Maris swing was short and compact. A dead pull hitter, not one of his 61 home runs were hit to the opposite field. Maris was a line drive hitter. Not a real home run hitter. Ironic, yes. The difference for him was that many line drives found the first five rows of seats at Yankee Stadium.

Statistically speaking, the stars aligned for Maris that season. He never came close to hitting 61 before or after that season. Hitting 39 home runs in 1960 and 33 in 1962 were the only two years that he would even hit over 30 home runs.

He walked more than he struck out during his prime years.

He certainly was not feared by opposing pitchers. During that 1961 season, he hit both third and fourth in the order, switching with Mickey Mantle. He received zero intentional walks. Mantle had nine.

He walked less than 100 times, yet scored a league leading 132 times. In fact, he won a mini triple crown that year, leading the league in home runs, rbi, and runs.

The press was brutal in New York. Fans were swayed by what they read. Newspapers were the major source of information in 1961. Any information that wasn't on the 'Evening News' on television had to be gleaned from newspapers. That meant close to 100% of baseball news came from print.

New York's writers were infamous in their love for Babe Ruth. His legend only made larger by these writers. Joe DiMaggio wrestled with it his first few years in New York. Mantle was not accepted either. The papers labeling him as dumb and a 'hick who can hit'. It wasn't till a few years into their careers that both DiMaggio and Mantle were accepted by the press. Maris never received that acceptance.

In 1961 with both Maris and Mantle looking like they had a chance to break the Babe's record, New York press invented a rivalry between the two players. None existed. Mantle found the situation amusing, but of course, he was the guy in the white hat. Maris became quiet and withdrawn. Polite with the press and teammates, he preferred to spend time alone as the two battled. His hair started falling out. He got hives.

When Mantle was in the Ruth chase, the press labeled the team, 'Mantle's team'. When Mantle dropped out near the end of the season with a hip problem. The press turned the rivalry from Maris-Mantle to Maris-Ruth. They questioned whether Maris was a 'true Yankee' and intimated that the record would be tarnished if Maris broke it. This, after Maris was named the A.L. Most Valuable Player the year before.

Thanks to the press, Maris was never treated as a conquering hero.

The Commisioner at the time was Ford Frick. He tried to apply an asterisk after Maris '61' in record books. During Ruth's day, a 154 game season was played, during Maris time, it had been moved to 162 games.

Frick was a baseball writer and close friend of Ruth, back in the day.

Maris said he felt as if he were poisoning baseball's record books and sometimes wished he'd never broken the record.

The retiring of Maris uniform number nine was even somewhat an after thought for the Yankees. They retired his number 23 years later, only after Craig Nettles, who also wore number nine, had been traded to another club.

Maris had also been diagnosed with cancer the year before, which also may have played in the decision.

Only five players in baseball have hit 60 home runs. Ruth, Maris, McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds. If the public were to decide asterisk now, Maris would be hardly a consideration.

With the advent of technology, hardly anything gets by a baseball fan these days. For the most part, fans draw their own conclusions and aren't led by any one source. A good thing.

Maris accomplishment was one for the ages and he never got the credit that was due him.

So, 50 years later, from a kid that lived 3,ooo miles away and who you helped catch the 'baseball bug', here is some credit, Roger.

And, 50 years later, from that same adult who is a self professed baseball nerd and fantasy nut, my admiration.

[ February 13, 2011, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

Winston's Empire · Post by **Winston's Empire** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:09 am

Great as always Dough!

I really loved this one. About half way through the read I started thinking about the asterisk and then there it was!

I was at the Hall of Fame this summer and saw the Bonds ball with the asterisk and it was fitting as hell!

Baseball fans love a good story, always find out the truth, and know what numbers are legit or video game.... Maris was legit!

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:36 am

I have a few random thoughts here:

*I actually liked the movie and I thought it faithfully captured most of the points you mentioned.

*It is too bad he's not in the HoF. I don't know why if a guy puts up merely above average stats for 20 years that is considered more important than one of the most notable seasons in the history of the game. If Craig Biggio goes it will get me hot under the collar. In a word, Maris is more...famous.

*Not that PECOTA is that valuable a tool these days, but it has Maris listed as one of Jose Bautista's top comparables.

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:38 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

Only five players in baseball have hit 60 home runs. Ruth, Maris, McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds. If the public were to decide asterisk now, Maris would be hardly a consideration.

But, if Maris’ career were to happen today, we would question it. A guy that never before had topped 40 dingers and then hits 61. Then never tops 33 again.

Many fans have questions about Jose Bautista, and in their mind the suspicions will be confirmed if he doesn’t hit 35+ this year. **(Meaning that he was juiced last year and not juiced this year. **Edit for clarity**)

Obviously I’m not suggesting that Maris was juiced (or that Bautista, Bond, Sammy weren’t), but it makes it much more difficult for today’s player to have that outlier year and not fall under the suspicion of drugs as opposed to just having that one great year.

[ February 13, 2011, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Navel Lint ]

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:14 am

Ruth is the only home run king that was universally accepted as the home run king.

It wasn't fair for Maris. He was questioned, but not because of his totals from previous or subsequent years. He was questioned, because he passed a legend.

Under today's scrutinizing eyes, Ruth would receive the same treatment.

Ruth was the first player to hit 30, 40, 50, and 60 home runs. In 1920, Ruth hit 54 home runs. George Sisler finished second with 19.

In 1921, Ruth hit 59. Teammate, Bob Meusel finished second with 24.

If this were to happen in today's times, Ruth's blood, equipment, and muscular features would all come in to question.

Back in the day though, it was just accepted that Ruth was just that much better than everybody else during his time.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:40 am

Many fans have questions about Jose Bautista, and in their mind the suspicions will be confirmed if he doesn’t hit 35+ this year.While I admit that it is irritating to me that we use every outlier as evidence of steroids, this makes no sense to me. If he hits five homers or 30, how is that proof that he used steroids? If anything, more home runs should arouse suspicion. Also, if you're going to suggest steroids just come out and say it. No one else is talking about this so clearly 'many fans' means you. You don't need to hide behind verbiage so you are only sort of accusing someone.

Ando · Post by **Ando** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:05 am

With over 3,000 hits - all on the same team - prepare yourself to be hot under the collar; because like it or not, Biggio is a shoe-in for the HOF.

Not saying it's right, wrong, or indifferent. Just saying what it is.

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:12 am

In regards to Jose Bautista and steroids in the game, I'll say that just about every player gets tested during a full season. Sometimes, it's several times in a season. In my opinion, Bautista was one of many Toronto hitters who enjoyed the confines of the Skydome and not the use of performance enhancing substances. The players are simply tested too often to get away with it.

Steroids can stay in your system for two months following the last cycle. It would be simply stupid to try it in the MLB or Minors these days.

Spartacus · Post by **Spartacus** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:22 pm

In 1961 I was a 12 year old growing up in the Bronx. It was a wonderful time and place and I remember the Mantle/Maris saga well. Everybody had an opinion and not only on that, after all this was da Bronx. Most folks including myself were on the Mickey bandwagon, he was a ten year Yankee veteran, the pride of the community and from what I'd read many years later, the love affair was mutual. Despite the press, Roger, a 2nd year Yankee, had his fans. I remember one of my friends saying that he hoped Roger would get to 61 first. Another chimed in with: "My father thinks Maris sucks!" Not to be outdone, friend one replies:"I think your father sucks!" Now you might think he had to eat those words, but if I remember correctly it was ants that he wound up eating. Yes the Bronx in 1961 was a great place to grow up, but I digress.

I think Mantle was ahead in the race 54-52 or thereabouts, when he got hurt and missed the rest of the season, although he may have pinch hit a time or two. Gloom descended over gotham and it now became a Roger vs The Babe battle. I lot of people were rooting against him. It was one thing if Mickey the NY icon did it, but it was quite another for this interloper from Kansas City to break the Babe's record. Being 12 years old I could care less.

Well the last day of the season comes around and Roger's stuck on 60. I was watching the game and I think he popped up or something in his first at bat. In his second, it was a 2-0 count and the crowd was giving the pitcher the Bronx cheer, thinking he was going to walk him intentionally, when suddenly............ "Holy Cow" is all I remember Rizzuto saying as I watched the ball plunk about 5 rows back in the lower right field stands (Roger just loved that short right field porch.) A fan ran onto the field to shake his hand, the players jumped out of the dugout, he also received a much deserved standing 'O' and I cried with joy. He was still a Yankee and after all I was only 12............so gimmee a break

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:44 pm

Went to see "True Grit" today (great film). Couldn't remember where I knew Ned Pepper from -- got it now!

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:57 pm

Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:Many fans have questions about Jose Bautista, and in their mind the suspicions will be confirmed if he doesn’t hit 35+ this year.While I admit that it is irritating to me that we use every outlier as evidence of steroids, this makes no sense to me. If he hits five homers or 30, how is that proof that he used steroids? If anything, more home runs should arouse suspicion. Also, if you're going to suggest steroids just come out and say it. No one else is talking about this so clearly 'many fans' means you. You don't need to hide behind verbiage so you are only sort of accusing someone. [/QUOTE]I actually don’t think he used steroids. In fact, the point of my post as a whole (which I must not have properly articulated) was to say that every time a player has a great season that is welllllll beyond any previous norm, we shouldn’t jump to the conclusion that something nefarious has happened. (Please go back and read my entire post with that frame of thought behind my writing)

Yet people do.

And yes, I’m generalizing by saying people (or fans) again. But if you’re telling me that you never read or heard anyone suggest steroids as a possible explanation for Bautista’s incredible 38 single season jump in home runs, I find that hard to believe.

[ February 13, 2011, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Navel Lint ]

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:26 pm

BTW, here is a thread about Bautista.

http://nfbcboards.fanball.com/cgi-bin/u ... 006360;p=1

I'm not the first to reference Bautista and PED's, or Brady Anderson or Canseco in the same sentence.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:26 pm

Fair enough, though I still have no idea how a sudden drop-off would be evidence that he used. I guess you could say he stopped suddenly, but in this context, why would he? He would obviously be getting away with it and having success.

I get that people are angry and looking for someone to blame but it's too bad it gets blamed on the guy who has a good season. I'm not going to look at that link, but I wonder if they stopped to consider he started his tear in September of 2009. Did he suddenly bulk up on the night of August 31st?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:20 pm

Maris achievement was clouded and distorted by the press. He also had the misfortune of having a hero for a teammate, breaking a legends record, and a commissioner of baseball, bent on preserving the record for his friend, the legend.

These forces all conspired to rob Maris of the enjoyment that breaking the most revered record in baseball should have brought.

Maris certainly didn't deserve the death threats, or his family and himself being sworn at in public.

All he did was have a career year and with that, happened to break the biggest record in baseball at the time.

I don't really care for the comparisons to Bautista. Bautista accomplished what so many other players have done before and will do after him, have a career year.

It's not even like comparing Joe Jackson and Pete Rose.

That is a post for another time

[ February 13, 2011, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

Snord35 · Post by **Snord35** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:42 pm

If you ever find yourself in Fargo North Dakota check out the Roger Maris Museum. I walk by it all the time when I'm in the mall. It's a nice little collection of memorabilia (Jerseys, Baseball Cards, Bats, Tickets, Photos) they also have a movie room with a few videos of his history.

http://www.rogermarismuseum.com/

Zazie · Post by **Zazie** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:13 am

Maris was clobbered by the press in '61, yes. He got some credit as the all-around good player he was when he played on the Cardinals -- the press could acknowledge him only after he left the Yankees. I remember the World Series reporters emphasized that he was "underrated" and had a good throwing arm and knew what base to throw to in every situation, as if he was some kid just up from AAA and it was surprising how poised he was.

And thanks for bringing back the memory (perhaps accurate) of Maris' 56th homer, which I saw as a 9-year-old in September. In my probably inaccurate memory, the Yankees scored 4 in the bottom of the 9th to beat Cleveland (Blanchard a 2-run double?) 8-7, with Maris homering in the 7th (and grounding out to the pitcher in the 9th). My dad taught me how to use a scorecard that day.