Auction Rules Change for 2006

Auction King · Post by **Auction King** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:30 am

Wow, little did I realize I would be competing with people looking to take advantage of the scoring system to win a league. I guess good for them if they win, but it doesn't seem like legit fantasy baseball to me. I heard Van Hook spent $9 on his pitching staff of players that will never throw an inning to load up on hitting and win 90-94 points. Two guys tried a 2 closer approach, all hitting strategy to try to finish top three at well in at least 3 different leagues that I know of. It totally distorts value of players. CDM had the same issue in their high roller league two years ago and they changed the rules to require a 900 ip rule to prevent that from happening again after the guy won the league. One owner that tried it in the NFBC had only played fantasy baseball for one year and figured he could win a league, not because he knew anything about fantasy baseball, but because from the numbers he ran, he figured he would be easily be in the top three. I would like to see feedback from some other auction owners as to what they thought of the strategy employed by several owners this weekend. While it is within the rules, it seems kind of bush leagues to me. Any owner trying that strategy must know they could not win a league any other way.

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:20 pm

Rule #1. Know your scoring system.

IF that strategy wins...then say congratulations and decide how you'll adjust next year.

Another by the way, zero ininngs does not qualify for 0.0 ERA and WHIP.

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:10 pm

Originally posted by JerseyPaul:

Rule #1. Know your scoring system.

IF that strategy wins...then say congratulations and decide how you'll adjust next year.

Another by the way, zero ininngs does not qualify for 0.0 ERA and WHIP.

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:15 pm

GREAT JOB Rocky and the entire NFBC crew in NEW York! smooth draft friday and saturday, thanks for paying attention to details, thats what makes the NFBC/NFFC the premier event in the world...all for that $1,000,000 prize next year...

Gieko, cant wait to be looking down on you in standings (if yow make you team name known)...i know that will quiet you up! FANDANGO 2005!

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:38 pm

Very, very interesting draft in NY League 7 (and long). I was Team 15 and went for the all reliever strategy. Team 3 went one step further and chose 3 closers and 6 pitchers that will never see the mound. As I have middle relievers also, I should beat him on K's and W's and we'll fight for WHIP, ERA and Saves.

I was disappointed not to get Teixiera in round 1 and Figgins in round 7 but other than that the draft went very close to what I had predicted. I waited on Hafner until 5.15 with my heart beating, and he was there. Mike Sweeney was high on my list but I cooled my enthusiasm and grabbed him in round 11. My corners are formidable; Aramis Ramirez, Chipper Jones, Mike Sweeney, and reserve Carlos Pena. I used the middle to get speed with Jeter, Womack and Iguchi. My OF is a blend of speed and power with Dave Roberts and Lew Ford for speed, and Andruw Jones, Eric Byrnes and Cliff Floyd giving me some pop.

I got 2 quality closers in Wagner and Foulke and also got Wagner's backup (Worrell) and Team 3's backup to Gagne (Brazoban)as well as some other key backups like JJ Putz, Huston Street and Antonio Alfonseca.

I'm pretty happy with my draft from the 15 slot. If the strategy works, I'm hoping to end last year's drought from slots 13-15.

[ March 19, 2005, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: JerseyPaul ]

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 6:48 pm

Originally posted by Auction King:

Wow, little did I realize I would be competing with people looking to take advantage of the scoring system to win a league. I guess good for them if they win, but it doesn't seem like legit fantasy baseball to me. I heard Van Hook spent $9 on his pitching staff of players that will never throw an inning to load up on hitting and win 90-94 points. Two guys tried a 2 closer approach, all hitting strategy to try to finish top three at well in at least 3 different leagues that I know of. It totally distorts value of players. CDM had the same issue in their high roller league two years ago and they changed the rules to require a 900 ip rule to prevent that from happening again after the guy won the league. One owner that tried it in the NFBC had only played fantasy baseball for one year and figured he could win a league, not because he knew anything about fantasy baseball, but because from the numbers he ran, he figured he would be easily be in the top three. I would like to see feedback from some other auction owners as to what they thought of the strategy employed by several owners this weekend. While it is within the rules, it seems kind of bush leagues to me. Any owner trying that strategy must know they could not win a league any other way. I really don't think any rules change is needed. Zero divided by zero is not 0.00. Null, infinity come to mind.

Zero divided by >0 = 0.00

Evil Empire · Post by **Evil Empire** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:23 am

Originally posted by Fandago:

Another by the way, zero ininngs does not qualify for 0.0 ERA and WHIP. Just curious. What does it qualify as then?

viper · Post by **viper** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:06 am

What "0/0" qualifies as is a tough "after-the-fact" question. Hopefully that team asked about this ahead of time and got an answer from Greg. To decide after the fact makes for a very hard decision especially since this owner is singularily effected. Those that drafted only closers at least will have a mathematical ERA & WHIP. I do agree that zero divided by zero is not zero.

devilznj · Post by **devilznj** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:21 am

What I agree with is it made NY League 7 a complete joke. This is my first year in - do we just go by NY League 7 or do we get nicknames? If we get nicknames I nominate ours to be The Bullshit League.

There was a couple of reasons our league took two hours longer to draft then NY 1. One reason was because eight of the teams couldn't believe what they got themselves into.

devilznj · Post by **devilznj** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:24 am

Sorry, I meant 13 of the teams couldn't believe what they got into.

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:26 am

Originally posted by GCA73:

Originally posted by Fandago:

quote: Another by the way, zero ininngs does not qualify for 0.0 ERA and WHIP. Just curious. What does it qualify as then? [/QUOTE]I can answer this for a different league service. Until someone actual pitched there was no result and those teams ranked below all the other teams in the ratio categories.

For example last year after the Japan games the pitchers who pitched were ranked and then came all the others tied for last.

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:48 am

Originally posted by devilznj:

What I agree with is it made NY League 7 a complete joke. This is my first year in - do we just go by NY League 7 or do we get nicknames? If we get nicknames I nominate ours to be The Bullshit League.

There was a couple of reasons our league took two hours longer to draft then NY 1. One reason was because eight of the teams couldn't believe what they got themselves into. Nonsense.

I think many of the guys took all their time, which to me makes a lot of sense. This was not a race to finish first on draft day but to finish first at the end of the season.

I had all the latest player news available to me and I checked each of my picks to make sure there was no injury or other negative factor that I hadn't remembered. I also had my expected pick grabbed from me at least 3 or 4 times by Team 14 (nice job, guys) so I had to go through the process of looking at second choices. Anybody picking quickly from a ranked list is..well...at a disadvantage.

Fifteen teams x 30 rounds = 450 picks. At 1 minute per thats 7.5 hours plus breaks = 8 hours. Finishing in 5+ hours seems perfectly reasonable.

Lastly, what makes trying all possible strategies to win "bullshit?". I guess having a plan is BS. If the plans don't work, well, next year will bring another plan.

devilznj · Post by **devilznj** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:23 am

No, it's when two owners of 15 have similiar strategies to abuse a situation and play the game not in the manner it was intended to play that you ruin it for the others. The numbers will be out of whack with the other leagues as you guys might very well be successful in making a mockery of this game.

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:36 am

Originally posted by devilznj:

What I agree with is it made NY League 7 a complete joke. This is my first year in - do we just go by NY League 7 or do we get nicknames? If we get nicknames I nominate ours to be The Bullshit League.

There was a couple of reasons our league took two hours longer to draft then NY 1. One reason was because eight of the teams couldn't believe what they got themselves into. first of all the teams that tanked wins by going with all relievers have no chance to win...not only do they tank wins, but they tank strikeouts....that is 2 categories in last place, clearly not enough to win a 15 team league...IF the category were strikeouts/inning, then there may be a chance for them to win, but it is TOTAL STRIKEOUTS, a very important point.....

it was a panic on JERSEY PAUL's part , cause he had 15th pick...he wanted to stir up the pot, but what he suceeded in was finishing out of the money and pissing off a lot of people in the process!

ALLACC82 · Post by **ALLACC82** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:22 am

Auction King,

I agree 100% with your analysis.It makes it a joke when you draft players who are in Single and Double A Ball or draft players who are out for the season.....I would be in favor of a minimum innings for all leagues.

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:53 am

Originally posted by fandango:

it was a panic on JERSEY PAUL's part , cause he had 15th pick...he wanted to stir up the pot, but what he suceeded in was finishing out of the money and pissing off a lot of people in the process! The good news is that another team had the same strategy so I can beat them at K's and W's because they don't have any MRs. That gives me a potential of 49 pitching points out of 75.

Obviously everybody does great according to their own projections, but I hit all my targets for the hitting categories. According to the reputable service I use the projections for my starters are:

.291 average

1234 runs

1170 rbis

318 hrs

190 sbs

That would put me 1st in each category. Obviously that won't happen in the real world but I realistically can hope for 68 hitting points out of 75.

68 + 48 = 116 (The average 1st place score last year)

Panic? No, I don't think so.

C Olivo (13)

C Lieberthal (15) b/u Y. Molina (26)

1B Mike Sweeney (11) b/u Carlos Pena (17)

2B Tony Womack (10) b/u Luis Gonzalez (27)

3B Aramis Ramirez (2)

SS Derek Jeter (1) b/u Alex Gonzalez (22)

CI Chipper Jones (4)

MI Tadahito Iguchi (12)

OF Dave Roberts (7)

OF Andruw Jones (8)

OF Lew Ford (9)

OF Eric Byrnes (14)

OF Cliff Floyd (16) b/u Bigbie (20) or move Chipper to OF

Okay, Sweeney is an injury risk but Pena is certainly a very good backup for him. Likewise with Floyd where I can move Pena to CI and play Chipper in the OF.

Closers:

Billy Wagner and b/u Tim Worrell

Keith Foulke

Strong Candidates due to injury:

Yancy Brazoban

JJ Putz

Good ERA/WHIP MRs

Ryan Madson

Huston Street

Scott Linebrink

Chris Hammond

Steve Kline

and a defense move: Alfonseca, the backup to Team 3's number 3 closer

Panic? Yes, the rest of the league.

[ March 20, 2005, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: JerseyPaul ]

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 9:59 am

Originally posted by JerseyPaul:

quote:Originally posted by fandango:

it was a panic on JERSEY PAUL's part , cause he had 15th pick...he wanted to stir up the pot, but what he suceeded in was finishing out of the money and pissing off a lot of people in the process! The good news is that another team had the same strategy so I can beat them at K's and W's because they don't have any MRs. That gives me a potential of 49 pitching points out of 75.

Obviously everybody does great according to their own projections, but I hit all my targets for the hitting categories. According to the reputable service I use the projections for my starters are:

.291 average

1234 runs

1170 rbis

318 hrs

190 sbs

That would put me 1st in each category. Obviously that won't happen in the real world but I realistically can hope for 68 hitting points out of 75.

68 + 48 = 116 (The average 1st place score last year)

Panic? No, I don't think so.

C Olivo (13)

C Lieberthal (15) b/u Y. Molina (26)

1B Mike Sweeney (11) b/u Carlos Pena (17)

2B Tony Womack (10) b/u Luis Gonzalez (27)

3B Aramis Ramirez (2)

SS Derek Jeter (1) b/u Alex Gonzalez (22)

CI Chipper Jones (4)

MI Tadahito Iguchi (12)

OF Dave Roberts (7)

OF Andruw Jones (8)

OF Lew Ford (9)

OF Eric Byrnes (14)

OF Cliff Floyd (16) b/u Bigbie (20) or move Chipper to OF

Okay, Sweeney is an injury risk but Pena is certainly a very good backup for him. Likewise with Floyd where I can move Pena to CI and play Chipper in the OF.

Closers:

Billy Wagner and b/u Tim Worrell

Keith Foulke

Strong Candidates due to injury:

Yancy Brazoban

JJ Putz

Good ERA/WHIP MRs

Ryan Madson

Huston Street

Scott Linebrink

Chris Hammond

Steve Kline

and a defense move: Alfonseca, the backup to Team 3's number 3 closer

Panic? Yes, the rest of the league. [/QUOTE]LOL JP always the optimist! you dont have a 35 HR hitter on that squad..where is your 300 hr coming from, JOSE CANSECO?

ps.. dave roberts wont be heatlty enough to steal 20 sb's..the dude has hamstrings of mozzarella, shreading at the gentlemost tug!

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:35 am

Originally posted by :

JerseyPaul,

When you calculated those projections, how do you get to 318 HRs? I'd like to see a breakdown because those offensive numbers are good for 1st overall...

Could it be that you included you bench players

Here goes:

C Olivo 22

C Lieberthal 22

1B Mike Sweeney 30

2B Tony Womack 5

3B Aramis Ramirez 37

SS Derek Jeter 21

CI Chipper Jones 33

MI Tadahito Iguchi 17

OF Dave Roberts 6

OF Andruw Jones 31

OF Lew Ford 17

OF Eric Byrnes 21

OF Cliff Floyd 25

DH Hafner 31

Total 318

Carlos Pena at 29 will be available to boost the total by sitting Roberts and moving Chipper to OF if some of those don't happen. Alex Gonzalez instead of Womack can also boost power at the cost of speed.

[ March 20, 2005, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: JerseyPaul ]

Balticsquids · Post by **Balticsquids** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:53 am

Id like to place a wager on a few if not most of those guys going UNDER , in your projected total?????u game

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:14 am

Originally posted by Balticsquids:

Id like to place a wager on a few if not most of those guys going UNDER , in your projected total?????u game Personally, I'd take the under on Olivo, Lieberthal Sweeney and some others but a good chance for the over on Hafner and Andruw Jones. Overall, I think the under is a good bet if I didn't manage the roster. But I will manage SB versus power based on standings, matchups, ballparks, etc.

Of course I'm not a betting man

Mankind · Post by **Mankind** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 11:23 am

Put the CRACK PIPE down with those projected numbers. That is SERIOUS wishfull thinking. Sweeney thirty homeruns, maybe in batting practice before he blows another disc, I think you believe a little tooooo much in your book statistics. With that being said good luck to your team. SEABASS NATION

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:31 pm

Originally posted by JerseyPaul:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by :

[qb] JerseyPaul,

When you calculated those projections, how do you get to 318 HRs? I'd like to see a breakdown because those offensive numbers are good for 1st overall...

Could it be that you included you bench players

Here goes:

C Olivo 22

C Lieberthal 22

1B Mike Sweeney 30

2B Tony Womack 5

3B Aramis Ramirez 37

SS Derek Jeter 21

CI Chipper Jones 33

MI Tadahito Iguchi 17

OF Dave Roberts 6

OF Andruw Jones 31

OF Lew Ford 17

OF Eric Byrnes 21

OF Cliff Floyd 25

DH Hafner 31

Total 318

I was laughing for 5 minutes after your catcher predictions, but i laughed even longer after the sweeney prediction....that dude hasnt hit 30 homers in 3 years combined!!!!!

JP DONT

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:43 pm

Originally posted by fandango:

I was laughing for 5 minutes after your catcher predictions, but i laughed even longer after the sweeney prediction....that dude hasnt hit 30 homers in 3 years combined!!!!!

[/QB]Wrong again fandango breath.

Sweeney has averaged 20 hr per year in 113 games over the last 3 years. 24/126, 16/108, 22/106 in 2004. Obviously if the guy can play 140 instead of 106 he would hit 30 at his 2004 rate. If he played 140, he would also be in better health so that might be low. He has a better OPS and Slug Pct than Derrek Lee.

Can he stay healthy?? Who knows. But based on capability he made a pretty good 11th rounder and MIGHT hit that projection.

As for Olivo, admittedly a stretch, but he hit 13 hrs last year in 96 games while changing teams in mid season. At 27 years old it's not crazy to hope for a breakout if he plays full time at C.

Lieberthal hit 17 last year. At 33 years old it's hard to imagine he'll improve that number. I admit, I can't justify that projection of 22.

[ March 20, 2005, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: JerseyPaul ]