Lets Stop Switching Pitchers Midweek in 2012

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:11 am

Originally posted by Sebadiah23:

its just that this (DL substitution) has turned into a detached lawyer-like debate and about not 100% obvious tactics rather than making it about being fair for team with players that go on the DL during the week.

Zero consistency. Accidentally of course, its become wacky. Nobody is to blame. But its wacky and confusing and word-of-mouth. I told people about this on another board and they had no clue the discussion was even going on. They know now, but only because I "whispered down the lane' to them, so they wouldn't miss out. I share your outlook. Nobody to blame, but this DL pitcher deal is a mess. The rule/implementation seems to miss the target, is so complicated that it even has the Commish wavering from year to year and looks to have several unintended consequences.

I play this game for fun. This week should have been really fun for me, as I made strong moves up in both of my leagues.

But the NFBC really was not much fun this week because of this sour DL situation.

First I read about the streaming loophole and realize that a lot my competitors have had a decided advantage all this year and last because they understood how to exploit the loophole while many of us did not.

This week has not been fun because I own Beachy, but did not know about the loophole before it was too late to take advantage of it.

This week has not been fun because it isn't fun to read all the arguements on the Message Boards and realize a lot of people are really upset about this, and it isn't fun thinking about the strain this puts on Greg.

Its not fun to think about how, on Friday, I have a pitcher Oswalt on the DL that I can't substitute for, while others who own Peavy or Beachy who aren't on the DL have already made substitutions.

I am not writing this to rant, but to simply point out that this DL rule is decidely detracting from why most of us are here...to have a good time.

Greg has asked us to suggest ways to improve the rule to make it better in 2012. I am fearful that modificatons to a complicated and vague rule will make it even more complicated and vague with even more unintended consquences and headaches.

I am writing this to encourage Greg to drop the pictcher's DL substitution all together in 2012. Why? Because we should be focused on having a good time instead.

Please keep it simple next year, Greg and put all the sting back in the DL where it belongs, not in misguided attempts to soften the blow.

If anybody agrees with me, please join in and help lobby Greg to drop pitcher DL substitutions in 2012. Lets focus on having fun instead instead of this stupid rule.

Outlaw · Post by **Outlaw** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:38 am

Agreed- Greg/TomSTATS need to change the rule now. No one is aking to go back in time and change scoring or anything. Have the IT people code it so there are no changes moving forward. They have changed/improved many things already since oening day and this should be no exception. It also is the type of change that will affect no one moving forward.

As one person pointed out today, Seems Zito may be eligible for this to happen this coming week.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:48 am

For a different point of view ... I like the rule. I think it's fun.

What isn't fun is whining about not knowing or figuring out the rules, Tom Hanks said it best ...

Cornhusker · Post by **Cornhusker** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:00 am

No pitcher moves in 2012 PERIOD. It is sad to see many competitors have got several undeserved starts and accumulated valuable stats while the rest of us were in the dark.

The pitcher moves must go.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:16 am

'And the 2011 NFBC Message Board winner for 'Most Threads About One Subject' goes to dl'ed pitchers'.

Accepting the award on behalf of the winners is Jake Peavy....

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:40 am

Dough,

I thought it was a new subject, that is, dropping the midweek substitution of pitchers altoghether next year.

Prior to this, the discussion in other threads have been around the interpetation of the current rule and possible modifications to it for next year.

If you have an opinion on on dropping the rule altogther, I would love to hear it...

robert

Joe Sambito · Post by **Joe Sambito** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:52 am

I think it is an over-reaction. The DL rule or spirit of is a solid rule. Takes some luck out of the equation which I think is good. Close the loophole in 2012, keep the DL-rule for all players.

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:58 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

For a different point of view ... I like the rule. I think it's fun.

What isn't fun is whining about not knowing or figuring out the rules, Tom Hanks said it best ...

I think your post is funny. Still don't like the rule, though..

Money · Post by **Money** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:59 am

For whatever reason I've decided to do a recap of what's transpiring with my comments and observations which are all mine.

Here's the rule from my main event team pages posted under lineup submissions:

Team owners also are allowed to remove a pitcher (or pitchers) who is officially on the DL from their starting lineup and replace him with a pitcher from their reserve roster on Fridays. (ON FRIDAY'S).

This is vague but implies the move must be done on Friday's if involves a DL'd pitcher.

Those that new of the glitch / loophole kept it very quiet and many prominent players didn't even know. Lindy was forthcoming and truthful from the get go admitting he's used it for quite some time. He won in 2009 and leads today by a wide margin. Don't go crazy on me, I'm not saying it's why he's winning, simply pointing out it's one of the competitive advantages being utilized.

In 2009 The subject was brought up 3 weeks into the season, Greg was adamant and said this would not be allowed, it would be monitored and if need be would be changed manually. "CASE CLOSED" His words. KJ Duke was a supporter of it in 2009 and got shot down. To his credit he has stayed consistent with his belief that it's a strategy. I admire the consistency although disagree.

2010 comes and goes and I have no idea if people used it or not. 2011 arrives and it gets noticed. Those in the know defend it, those not in the know are confused and irritated (me included).

Making matters worse and probably not getting the attention it deserves are some statistical mistakes. One time occurrence? I think so, I hope so, I trust Greg and the NFBC.

Up until this point in time the NFBC has not released a statement concerning this. Typically Greg jumps in and is decisive and fair in the best interests of the game. We've heard nothing. I hope he's on vacation enjoying some family time, he deserves it. Hopefully he doesn't have any personal crisis keeping him from addressing this. Pure speculation on my part is it could have legal ramifications.

As the season wears on through the summer the occurrences of DL'd pitchers becoming available obviously increases because of all the players coming an going off of that list. A statement is surely forthcoming, the playing field needs to be leveled out.

For participants not to have the same opportunity to replace like players at the deadline on Friday is ridiculous. It's an advantage no matter what size you feel it is. As the year goes on it gets bigger and bigger because of the number of players involved. If you're fortunate enough to compete at the end an extra 5 - 10 starts would be astronomical.

I really don't care how this rule is handled, I simply want it fair for all participants as I'm sure Greg, Tom and the NFBC do as well.

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:04 am

Class!

Lets stay on the subject!

Should we allow midweek switches for pitchers in 2012?!?

Money · Post by **Money** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:18 am

Originally posted by Rainiers:

Class!

Lets stay on the subject!

Should we allow midweek switches for pitchers in 2012?!? Sorry about that, I'll paste to the other thread. I SAY NO.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:22 am

Originally posted by Rainiers:

Dough,

I thought it was a new subject, that is, dropping the midweek substitution of pitchers altoghether next year.

Prior to this, the discussion in other threads have been around the interpetation of the current rule and possible modifications to it for next year.

If you have an opinion on on dropping the rule altogther, I would love to hear it...

robert Alright Robert, you've coaxed me.

I've never used the loophole/anomaly to my benefit over the last two years. I've known about it, but never used it.

It isn't because I go 'round with a halo over my head. Simply, I just did not want to put any thought into it.

Really, I don't think it is that big of a deal. Alot of folks want action from Greg. Greg is thinking a lot more about the future of the NFFC/NFBC than a misuse of a rule.

Besides, although it seems there is a split on opinion of this rule, hardly a soul is for mid-season rule changes.

Am I in favor of the rule?

No.

As I've suggested before, if a pitcher hasn't pitched by Friday in 2012, he is eligible to be replaced by a benched pitcher.

This would replace the dl rule while still giving help to pitchers that are dl'ed or ruled out for the week like Beckett this week.

The thread is the same subject , just a variation.

Fight the good fight, Robert.

Nobody can fault somebody fighting for a cause that they believe in.

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:24 am

Make it VERY simple. Allow hitter and pitcher moves every Friday. Throw out the DL rule entirely.

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:26 am

Originally posted by Money:

quote:Originally posted by Rainiers:

Class!

Lets stay on the subject!

Should we allow midweek switches for pitchers in 2012?!? Sorry about that, I'll paste to the other thread. I SAY NO. [/QUOTE]Thanks.

So far the score is 4-2 in favor of dumping the rule that allows midweek switches for pitchers in 2012.

TParsons · Post by **TParsons** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:39 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

For a different point of view ... I like the rule. I think it's fun.

What isn't fun is whining about not knowing or figuring out the rules, Tom Hanks said it best ...

KJ- Why do you keep avoiding this question about the rules when I ask it- What do the rules state as the deadline for 2nd period transactions?

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:53 am

Originally posted by TParsons:

KJ- Why do you keep avoiding this question about the rules when I ask it- What do the rules state as the deadline for 2nd period transactions? Must be on DL by (meaning prior to) Friday at 12:01am.

TParsons · Post by **TParsons** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:57 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by TParsons:

KJ- Why do you keep avoiding this question about the rules when I ask it- What do the rules state as the deadline for 2nd period transactions? Must be on DL by (meaning prior to) Friday at 12:01am. [/QUOTE]i know you're trying to be cute here, but you and I both know that means the pitcher that you want to take out has to be on the DL by that time in order to be replaced, Otherwise, what you're trying to say is that if a pitcher is on the DL, he has to be in your lineup by 12:01 AM Friday. I'll ask again, what is the transaction deadline for the 2nd period?

Fourslot40 · Post by **Fourslot40** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:57 am

I'm asking for someone to go back in time and change it. This is an OVERALL contest. I pay alot of money to be in these live events. Unless there is certainty that no one had an advantage over another, I honestly feel cheated. This isn't whining, this is the truth. How could anyone feel like this contest is on the up-and-up right now between this DL rule and the players pointing out each deficiency before the NFBC/STATS finds them?

I enjoy this contest like you would not believe. I highly respect Greg, Tom, Geoff and STATS, but many of us who put our energy into these contests should feel deflated right now.

BTW - Any shot that Beachy comes in relief this weekend? I'm hoping so.

[ June 25, 2011, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:00 pm

I honestly don't care if we keep the pitcher DL rule or not. My greater concern is that whatever rule is implemented, it is assured that a level playing ground is in place, that there is a consistency in how the rule is utilized & interpreted, and that the skills and "strategies" that are supposed to be rewarded are those that are rewarded. Unfortunately I believe all of that was missing in how this rule was utilized and handled this week.

If it means getting rid of the rule to create a level playing ground, so be it.

Money · Post by **Money** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:01 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by TParsons:

KJ- Why do you keep avoiding this question about the rules when I ask it- What do the rules state as the deadline for 2nd period transactions? Must be on DL by (meaning prior to) Friday at 12:01am. [/QUOTE]Here it is straight from the main event rules:

Team owners also are allowed to remove a pitcher (or pitchers) who is officially on the DL from their starting lineups and replace him with a pitcher from their reserve roster on Fridays. Team owners also are allowed to remove a pitcher (or pitchers) who is officially on the DL from their starting lineup and replace him with a pitcher from their reserve roster on Fridays. Those decisions will have to be made by 5 minutes before the scheduled start time of the first game of the day if those pitchers are involved in an early game or by 6:55 pm ET for all teams involved in night games. Pitchers must officially be on Major League Baseball's DL list according to NFBC by 12:01 AM ET on Friday for this move (or moves) to take effect for the weekend games. However, during the last two weeks of the regular season only, we will allow owners to replace any pitchers in their starting lineup with reserves on Friday, just like hitters. But this applies ONLY to the last two weeks of the season.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:02 pm

Originally posted by TParsons:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by TParsons:

KJ- Why do you keep avoiding this question about the rules when I ask it- What do the rules state as the deadline for 2nd period transactions? Must be on DL by (meaning prior to) Friday at 12:01am. [/QUOTE]i know you're trying to be cute here, but you and I both know that means the pitcher that you want to take out has to be on the DL by that time in order to be replaced, Otherwise, what you're trying to say is that if a pitcher is on the DL, he has to be in your lineup by 12:01 AM Friday. I'll ask again, what is the transaction deadline for the 2nd period? [/QUOTE]You know what the rule is and you know that if a guy is red-tagged he can be benched at anytime prior to the transaction deadline.

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:07 pm

Good golly people!

Remember the Subject Line! Should we not allow midweek switching of pitchers in 2012!

Please take your unrelated topics and arguements outside!

thank you!

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:08 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by TParsons:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by TParsons:

KJ- Why do you keep avoiding this question about the rules when I ask it- What do the rules state as the deadline for 2nd period transactions? Must be on DL by (meaning prior to) Friday at 12:01am. [/QUOTE]i know you're trying to be cute here, but you and I both know that means the pitcher that you want to take out has to be on the DL by that time in order to be replaced, Otherwise, what you're trying to say is that if a pitcher is on the DL, he has to be in your lineup by 12:01 AM Friday. I'll ask again, what is the transaction deadline for the 2nd period? [/QUOTE]You know what the rule is and you know that if a guy is red-tagged he can be benched at anytime prior to the transaction deadline. [/QUOTE]...and you know that the intent of the rule was to allow for substitutions of pitchers on the DL going into the Friday-Sunday scoring period. How about we all talk straight instead of playing games with semantics?

TParsons · Post by **TParsons** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:09 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by TParsons:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by TParsons:

KJ- Why do you keep avoiding this question about the rules when I ask it- What do the rules state as the deadline for 2nd period transactions? Must be on DL by (meaning prior to) Friday at 12:01am. [/QUOTE]i know you're trying to be cute here, but you and I both know that means the pitcher that you want to take out has to be on the DL by that time in order to be replaced, Otherwise, what you're trying to say is that if a pitcher is on the DL, he has to be in your lineup by 12:01 AM Friday. I'll ask again, what is the transaction deadline for the 2nd period? [/QUOTE]You know what the rule is and you know that if a guy is red-tagged he can be benched at anytime prior to the transaction deadline. [/QUOTE]So you're saying that overrides what's in the official rules?

You don't see anything wrong with that?

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:11 pm

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by TParsons:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by TParsons:

KJ- Why do you keep avoiding this question about the rules when I ask it- What do the rules state as the deadline for 2nd period transactions? Must be on DL by (meaning prior to) Friday at 12:01am. [/QUOTE]i know you're trying to be cute here, but you and I both know that means the pitcher that you want to take out has to be on the DL by that time in order to be replaced, Otherwise, what you're trying to say is that if a pitcher is on the DL, he has to be in your lineup by 12:01 AM Friday. I'll ask again, what is the transaction deadline for the 2nd period? [/QUOTE]You know what the rule is and you know that if a guy is red-tagged he can be benched at anytime prior to the transaction deadline. [/QUOTE]...and you know that the intent of the rule was to allow for substitutions of pitchers on the DL going into the Friday-Sunday scoring period. How about we all talk straight instead of playing games with semantics? [/QUOTE]Good idea. I'll re-write the rule for 2012 and there will be no doubt in anyone's mind about the rule.