for greg and tom, rule opinion

triple a · Post by **triple a** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:04 pm

Greg/Tom, just curious. what was the reason that made the nfbc switch the eligible free agents to exclude players in the minors before they are called to the majors. owners should be allowed to stack their reserves with players who are not yet called up. Its a big part of fantasy baseball dont you think? Having to wait until everyone can make a bid on a guy takes a little a way from fun of fantasy baseball for me anyway. I think its a big negative for the nfbc. In all the leagues i know of, scouting the minors before players are called up is a big part of the game, especially if your crowning a national champion. Any discussion on changing this on your end for the future?

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Thu May 01, 2008 12:08 pm

None of the lgs I play in allow picking up minor lg players thru FAAB before they are called up, keeper lges and national contests alike. That is the norm, not the other way around.

triple a · Post by **triple a** » Thu May 01, 2008 1:09 pm

duke, never heard of that to be honest. All the other stat services i have used include minor leaguers in their add/drops each week allowing you to spend free agent money on a, aa, and aaa players if you wish. allstar stats, sportsline etc. usually the only good players worth picking up are minor leaguers since almost all starters in the major leaguers are taken. all the leagues i have played in anyway unless your playing in a espn or yahoo run site or something like that.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Thu May 01, 2008 1:17 pm

Originally posted by triple a:

duke, never heard of that to be honest. All the other stat services i have used include minor leaguers in their add/drops each week allowing you to spend free agent money on a, aa, and aaa players if you wish. allstar stats, sportsline etc. usually the only good players worth picking up are minor leaguers since almost all starters in the major leaguers are taken. all the leagues i have played in anyway unless your playing in a espn or yahoo run site or something like that. I know I never prevented him over a decade ago

Artie, check out the "collusion" thread and chime in. We are talking about this very thing now..

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Thu May 01, 2008 1:22 pm

Originally posted by triple a:

duke, never heard of that to be honest. All the other stat services i have used include minor leaguers in their add/drops each week allowing you to spend free agent money on a, aa, and aaa players if you wish. allstar stats, sportsline etc. usually the only good players worth picking up are minor leaguers since almost all starters in the major leaguers are taken. all the leagues i have played in anyway unless your playing in a espn or yahoo run site or something like that. Beside NFBC, I play the Jungle and a 4-5 private lges, none of which allow speculating in minor lgrs with FAAB until called up (unless drafted).

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri May 02, 2008 2:18 am

Originally posted by triple a:

Greg/Tom, just curious. what was the reason that made the nfbc switch the eligible free agents to exclude players in the minors before they are called to the majors. owners should be allowed to stack their reserves with players who are not yet called up. Its a big part of fantasy baseball dont you think? Having to wait until everyone can make a bid on a guy takes a little a way from fun of fantasy baseball for me anyway. I think its a big negative for the nfbc. In all the leagues i know of, scouting the minors before players are called up is a big part of the game, especially if your crowning a national champion. Any discussion on changing this on your end for the future? Artie, this is a question you ask every year. We never "switched" this rule on free agents as this rule has been in place since 2004, including the first year when you won the NFBC. The reasoning is simple: If you want a minor-leaguer bad enough and want to stack him on your roster, you have EVERY chance to do that on Draft Day. You can draft ANYONE in baseball on Draft Day and prove that your scouting was better than others. Load up on top minor-leaguers all you want before they reach the majors and you can win it all!!

But if everyone in your league passes after 450 chances and those guys are still in the minors, then we wait until they get called up in your league so that everyone has the same shot at them. It makes the FAAB portion of our contest important. Yes, I know some folks think that they could have been smarter than the rest of their guys in their league by picking up Scherzer for $10 two weeks ago, but now you have to be smarter in the FAAB game. It's part of the contest, and a good part of the contest, I believe. Without this rule in place, FAAB becomes less of a factor in the NFBC than it is now.

As for the claim that minor-leaguers should be available in EVERY league, I haven't responded on the "collusion" post because George's incredible headline doesn't deserve that attention. Start up a separate thread and I'll gladly respond with an answer that the individual leagues are what you are competing in first and thus the other leagues shouldn't factor into when minor-leaguers in your league become available. Good luck all.

[ May 02, 2008, 08:18 AM: Message edited by: Greg Ambrosius ]

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:31 am

for the record and for what it is worth- i agree 100% with greg here. the contest is great

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:48 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

I'll gladly respond with an answer that the individual leagues are what you are competing in first and thus the other leagues shouldn't factor into when minor-leaguers in your league become available. what?!? i don't know about the rest of the people here, but i'm playing FIRST for the 100K. if my dream of the 100K drifts away, then i'd start looking at it from a league perspective.

5K is nice, but it doesn't compare to 100K. accordingly, my decisions need to be made with my eyes on the 100K.

i'll start a new thread to ask you about why having the same pool of players (whether available in FAAB or already rostered) in each league is a bad thing.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:04 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

I'll gladly respond with an answer that the individual leagues are what you are competing in first and thus the other leagues shouldn't factor into when minor-leaguers in your league become available. what?!? i don't know about the rest of the people here, but i'm playing FIRST for the 100K. if my dream of the 100K drifts away, then i'd start looking at it from a league perspective.

5K is nice, but it doesn't compare to 100K. accordingly, my decisions need to be made with my eyes on the 100K.

i'll start a new thread to ask you about why having the same pool of players (whether available in FAAB or already rostered) in each league is a bad thing. [/QUOTE]Yes, start that new thread. I'll gladly explain.

I'm glad that you have your eyes on the grand prize. That is the goal for most people. But you are drafting in your private league, you are competing for free agents in your private league, so the fact that someone in Orlando 1 was the only one to draft a Class A guy and he then cut him after Week 1 shouldn't be the reason that Class A guy is available in EVERY NFBC league. If somebody wanted him, they had the chance to get him with one of the 450 picks on Draft Day.

Again, realize that there are several components of competition in the NFBC. There is:

1) Draft Day

2) Roster Management

3) FAAB

In-season FAAB pickups are critical to success in the NFBC. And the rules as they are allow everyone the same shot at the top prospects when they get called up. Without that, FAAB would be lessened for the most part.

But again, a separate thread is best to discuss this.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:11 am

How would this rule change alter anything in a bad way...

RULE: Any minor league player drafted and later dropped before entering a major league game, will be removed from the free agent player pool until he enters a MLB game.

~Lance

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:41 am

Like John...I like to play the DA role when trying to eliminate potential foul play.

Allowing the drafting and dropping of minor leaguers in one league to remain in the player pool can be used to stack a team.

It creates the possibility of getting a $400 minor league player for $1 in your league, that is not an option in another league

If you draft a player and keep him...it is no different than any other player drafted and kept rostered...so I'd remove any argument related to drafting and keeping from this rule.

As for secretly owning more than one team not having much of an impact on the overall (from the other thread) argument...I laugh in your face.

That would be something even corrupt live poker does not allow. (but still happens online)

They do not allow a player busted out of a tournament to move to another table and sit down and play one of his "horses" seats from that point on.

Yet this could occur here. (Devils Advocate here).

Say I noticed that Uncle Dan has had some SERIOUS run of poor luck...and offer to give him my password and run my team from here on out...(or 5 teams)...and we split the prize money (should there be some.)

Very hard to stop...but any effort made to stop it would help.

At the very least...it would stop some guys from claiming their "horse" teams success as their own when touting themselves as the best owners.

~Lance

[ May 02, 2008, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Fri May 02, 2008 4:54 am

dear sports- laugh all you want- but you and others write and write and write- but offer no proof. second, if owning 2 teams is great then 10 would be better. spend 13,000 to win 100,000? please throw down the evidence that this is smart. it just isn't. again- if you are worried i have no problem with it as i only will own one. poker is a much different example you are comparing apples to oranges there. if i am wrong- post an example. as i see it- in wsop you could end up at same table. here- the picking is random and the leagues are separate. you guys are assumimg 14 owners will lay down on free agent bidding- it won't happen.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri May 02, 2008 5:03 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

It creates the possibility of getting a $400 player for $1 in your league, that is not an option in another league

Brian Fuentes was added two weeks ago for $1 in some lges, in others he wasn't available and in others he was added for $400 the following week. So this happens with major lgrs as well as minor lgrs.

Available players in any league is a function of who was drafted and who was dropped, and every league has the opportunity to draft the exact same player pool (or not).

I understand your argument but I don't see any kind of inequity beyond the fact that some lges are stronger than others, which is just the luck of the draw.

[ May 02, 2008, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri May 02, 2008 5:18 am

Duke...

I edited my post to add "$400 minor leaguer"

Head...

I did give an example to the value of being able to absorb one team crushed by injuries, by having a fallback team (or teams) to work your magic on.

No guarantee...but the odds of success go way up...that I guarantee.

~Lance

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Fri May 02, 2008 5:47 am

last post on this- i agree with the above statement on 2 teams being better than one. your "odds" would double. but i don't see someone owning 2 teams as a problem to the fairness of the competition. in wcop i have read that people have multiple teams- and when at the same table that would mean collusion- no doubt. here i don't see that occuring or how it even could occur. just my opinion.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:02 am

Another oddity in an event of this size is that there isn't 100% transparency as to who the main event primary owners are as listed in the main event overall standings.

Once you send in your application with your legal name and team name...there should be no tinkering with either. (IMO)

I'd guess changing your team name for good luck, for entertainment, or spelling correction could be allowed...but never the primary owners name. (and co-owner if there is one.)

~Lance

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:17 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Another oddity in an event of this size is that there isn't 100% transparency as to who the main event primary owners are as listed in the main event overall standings.

Once you send in your application with your legal name and team name...there should be no tinkering with either. (IMO)

I'd guess changing your team name for good luck, for entertainment, or spelling correction could be allowed...but never the primary owners name. (and co-owner if there is one.)

~Lance Like we don't know who Mrs. Josh Hamilton is ???

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:18 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Yes, I know some folks think that they could have been smarter than the rest of their guys in their league by picking up Scherzer for $10 two weeks ago, but now you have to be smarter in the FAAB game. It's part of the contest, and a good part of the contest, I believe. Without this rule in place, FAAB becomes less of a factor in the NFBC than it is now.I respectfully submit that faab would not become that much less of a factor at all.

At most, only 75% (much less for other not so prized ML'ers) of the leagues would pick up Max for $10 two weeks before. That amount of faab saved isn't going to change what's going on now to any significant degree.

The fact that reserve rosters are thin makes it very hard and risky to roster such guys. No one knew Max and Nick would be called up two weeks ago. You could only speculate.

[ May 02, 2008, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: UFS ]

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:29 am

Gotta love Jules!

~Lance

RedRyder · Post by **RedRyder** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:03 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Another oddity in an event of this size is that there isn't 100% transparency as to who the main event primary owners are as listed in the main event overall standings.

Once you send in your application with your legal name and team name...there should be no tinkering with either. (IMO)

I'd guess changing your team name for good luck, for entertainment, or spelling correction could be allowed...but never the primary owners name. (and co-owner if there is one.)

~Lance Like we don't know who Mrs. Josh Hamilton is ???

[/QUOTE]I'm working on a new screenplay, the title is "Stalking Josh Hamilton" !!!

Gotta give him his April props, right?!!! REAL DEAL!!!!!

I can't believe I took that piece of poop Swisher over my boy in the Keeper League!

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:11 am

Originally posted by RedRyder:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Another oddity in an event of this size is that there isn't 100% transparency as to who the main event primary owners are as listed in the main event overall standings.

Once you send in your application with your legal name and team name...there should be no tinkering with either. (IMO)

I'd guess changing your team name for good luck, for entertainment, or spelling correction could be allowed...but never the primary owners name. (and co-owner if there is one.)

~Lance Like we don't know who Mrs. Josh Hamilton is ???

[/QUOTE]I'm working on a new screenplay, the title is "Stalking Josh Hamilton" !!!

Gotta give him his April props, right?!!! REAL DEAL!!!!!

I can't believe I took that piece of poop Swisher over my boy in the Keeper League!

[/QUOTE]... and in addition to not hitting, he's got a big melon head!

Now Steve was a cool dude back in the '70s ...

(Sorry if I offend any melonheads out there).

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:20 am

Speaking of new screenplay...any date set for either you (Jules) or Gekko's (Mark) draft weekend videos to finish edit?

Have either of you consider forwarding one to the other to whomever has more time or to make it even bigger with more to edit?

Looking forward to anything...even if it's not up to your standards.

~Lance

RedRyder · Post by **RedRyder** » Fri May 02, 2008 9:34 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Speaking of new screenplay...any date set for either you (Jules) or Gekko's (Mark) draft weekend videos to finish edit?

Have either of you consider forwarding one to the other to whomever has more time or to make it even bigger with more to edit?

Looking forward to anything...even if it's not up to your standards.

~Lance Lance, even though I lugged my camera to Las Vegas, I opted to leave it in the case. I felt I couldn't focus on my draft if I was fiddling with the camera.

Liquidhippo · Post by **Liquidhippo** » Fri May 02, 2008 11:16 am

Originally posted by RedRyder:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Another oddity in an event of this size is that there isn't 100% transparency as to who the main event primary owners are as listed in the main event overall standings.

Once you send in your application with your legal name and team name...there should be no tinkering with either. (IMO)

I'd guess changing your team name for good luck, for entertainment, or spelling correction could be allowed...but never the primary owners name. (and co-owner if there is one.)

~Lance Like we don't know who Mrs. Josh Hamilton is ???

[/QUOTE]I'm working on a new screenplay, the title is "Stalking Josh Hamilton" !!!

Gotta give him his April props, right?!!! REAL DEAL!!!!!

I can't believe I took that piece of poop Swisher over my boy in the Keeper League!

[/QUOTE]I can't believe I didn't take one of of my prime targets in a SINGLE redraft league.

Josh is looking like a contender for the triple crown.

Way to go Greg!

Liquidhippo · Post by **Liquidhippo** » Fri May 02, 2008 11:45 am

Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Yes, I know some folks think that they could have been smarter than the rest of their guys in their league by picking up Scherzer for $10 two weeks ago, but now you have to be smarter in the FAAB game. It's part of the contest, and a good part of the contest, I believe. Without this rule in place, FAAB becomes less of a factor in the NFBC than it is now.I respectfully submit that faab would not become that much less of a factor at all.

At most, only 75% (much less for other not so prized ML'ers) of the leagues would pick up Max for $10 two weeks before. That amount of faab saved isn't going to change what's going on now to any significant degree.

The fact that reserve rosters are thin makes it very hard and risky to roster such guys. No one knew Max and Nick would be called up two weeks ago. You could only speculate. [/QUOTE]Totally agree UFS, well said. In fact, in my humble opinion, it would actually improve FAAB and the contest overall. It's a myth that most of the 'Hot' waiver prospects would already be rostered prior to call up. There are only so many bench spots. Space is at a real premium. I know I can't even come close to finding room for everyone I'd like to roster, and that's w/o factoring in non drafted minor leaguers. More than half the time, burning a roster spot on these guys does more harm than good. The opportunity costs for wasting roster space on these lotto tickets is often too high. That's why the Linds, the Bonds, the Loftons, the Brauns, the Clements, the Kershaws, etc. that's why they're often dropped. And contrary to popular opinion, the Free Agent pool will be enhanced by this, because if someone does pick up a non drafted minor league prospect....guess what....they have to drop someone, someone who's serviceable, or they might even drop the hottest free agent commodity of the year, ie Brian Fuentes.

FAAB would become more balanced. It would eliminate, to a small degree, some of the luck, because those who know their stuff and can anticipate a call up 2 weeks ahead of time, they would be rewarded for that knowledge/fantasy skill.

No matter how you slice it, people will always have $1000 to spend over the course of the year, and they'll always spend it, and they'll always compete over the same number of players, so none of that 'fun' would be taken away.

Power to the people! Give them access to ALL players throughout the year, not just on draft day!

Actually, FAAB should be moved to the superior system adopted by tout wars. There's a name for it....Vickrey system....or something like that. The winning bid is only 1 more than the runner up bid....should probably start another thread for that one.

[ May 02, 2008, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Liquidhippo ]