BEYOND Confused...Please help.

GOD Loves You · Post by **GOD Loves You** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:46 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:

quote:Originally posted by nydownunder:

Gators move: Cantu to bench...Hall from CI to 2B....and Niekro from bench to CI. Hmmmmm?! There's nothing illegal about this move. Essentially, Niekro is the player who replaces Cantu in Gators' active lineup. Because he has Hall, who also has multiple position eligibility, that enabled him to replace Cantu with Niekro. This is a legal move. [/QUOTE]I am BEYOND confused about this.

I understand Hall could replace Cantu, as Cantu is DL'd...legal move. But technically, Niekro is replacing Hall who isn't DL'd....illegal move. How can this be???? Niekro is replacing a player who isn't on the DL. Hall's versatility would be great if he was coming off the bench, but he isn't in this case.

I, and I am guessing others were thinking the DL'd player is the only one who could be replaced.

Am I the ONLY one who doesn't understand the thought behind this and thinks it is illegal?

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:51 am

I think you're making this more confusing than it has to be. Niekro is the one who is replacing Cantu. How this can be done is due to Hall having multiple-position eligibility. The DL move is as follows:

Cantu DL'd and replaced by Niekro.

That is the move that was made. The fact Hall can qualify at multiple positions is what enables Niekro to be the player to replace Cantu off Gator's bench.

GOD Loves You · Post by **GOD Loves You** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:29 am

I understand from a "lineup submission standpoint" Cantu is being benched and Niekro is being added to the lineup. But if you look at it from a "player standpoint," Niekro is being submitted into the lineup replacing Hall who isn't on the DL.

According to the infamous Rule 13, owners are also allowed to remove a player (or players) who is officially on the DL from their starting lineup with one of their players from their reserve roster before each Friday's first game as long as the position eligibility works out.

If you read this how it is written in black and white, the position eligibility doesn't work out.

Niekro isn't a 2B, this is the position where the DL'd player is being replaced.

Hall isn't on the reserve roster, he is in the starting lineup. In the lineup, a starter is replacing a DL'd starter in this case.

I am only reading the rule exactly as it is written and not how it was "intended" to be used.

Ultimately I don't care, but from reading the rule and how it's being implemented, I don't think it is a legal move. And from other posts I have seen, many seem to have the same thoughts that I have....the player being submitted into the lineup has to have the same eligibility as the player being benched.

This seems to be a situation where you say Dan Quayle and I say potato.

[ April 27, 2006, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: GOD Loves You ]

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:31 am

Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

According to the infamous Rule 13, owners are also allowed to remove a player (or players) who is officially on the DL from their starting lineup with one of their players from their reserve roster before each Friday's first game as long as the position eligibility works out. And Gators clearly followed this rule. Niekro replaced Cantu on his active roster. He was able to make this move because he had another player (Hall) with multiple eligibility. There's no controversy here. Gators followed the rule and his move was a legal one.

steve · Post by **steve** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:42 am

STOP CRYINGGGGGGGGGGGGGG and play fantasy baseball

duggan · Post by **duggan** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:52 pm

another nitpicker, lets play ball

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:11 pm

Not getting off that easy.

This is illegal according to the wording of the rules.

God Loves you is correct.

You need to re-write the rules again if you wish to allow this move.

Cantu is NOT being replaced IN HIS SPOT ON THE ROSTER (hand selected by the owner himself)...by Niekro...he is in fact being replaced by a player NOT ON HIS BENCH.

Illegal.

~Lance

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:21 pm

I can see how the rule can be read two ways..."from his starting lineup" can be open to mixing and matching...sorry.

I thought it had to abide by exactly where the DL'd player was started in the lineup...not the entire lineup itself.

The NFBC needs this clarified...it's wide open to optimize.

I was wrong in my post above...I didn't see the non-clear wording in the rules.

~Lance

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:26 pm

This rule sucks.

With every season...comes injuries. As competitors, we rely on the demise of risky drafters, and we root for injuries or demotions to our opponents players...it's part of baseball.

If every player remained healthy...there would be a totally different top 20 in the final tally. Risk and reward is fair with a 7 day week...giving those with injuries an advantage is not better...it's worse. The conservative get screwed.

This rule benefits the risky and helps out the weak.

I hope it only lasts one year.

But I still love Greg and Tom...just venting here.

~Lance

[ April 27, 2006, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

GOD Loves You · Post by **GOD Loves You** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:59 pm

Originally posted by duggan:

another nitpicker, lets play ball So if someone puts up 5k, $1,250, $650, or even $100 and they question the interpretation of the rules it is nitpicking?

If ANYONE reads the rules and interprets them EXACTLY as they are written, this move was illegal.

I am truly dumbfounded why this isn't blatantly obvious.

To refresh, owners are also allowed to remove a player (or players) who is officially on the DL from their starting lineup with one of their players from their reserve roster before each Friday's first game as long as the position eligibility works out.

A. The word REPLACE should be added to make this a valid statement. Technically the rule does not state the player can be replaced. It only shows a DL'd player can be removed.

B. The rule is stating a STARTER who is DL'd can be removed and replace by a player from the RESERVE roster as long as the POSITION ELIGIBILTY works out.

Again, Cantu was a STARTER at 2B. He was replaced by another STARTER, not a player from the RESERVE roster. HAll is a starter replacing Cantu in the lineup and Niekro is a reserved replacing Hall in the lineup. Hall was not DL'd, Cantu was. So if you want to argue that Niekro is replacing Cantu in the lineup, it is invalid as the POSITION ELIGIBILTY does NOT work out. I asked before, am I missing something?

The rule is being intrepreted or implemented different than the way it is worded. I am not a Rhodes scholar, but I can see what is written.

Tom, I understand EXACTLY what you are saying, but how the rule is written, I still say it was an illegal move. You stated, Niekro is the one replacing Cantu, yet one is a 2B and one is a 1B so technically the position eligibilty doesn't work out.

I am not trying to create a controversy, just stating how the rule is written and being implemented is invalid. I am attempting to help you and Greg avoid any "arguments" or disagreements about this in the future. If you would really read what I am saying, you can see the wording of the rule is flawed and should be changed going forward.

I know you and Greg want to have the best high stakes fantasy events and you guys have done an admirable job. I truly believe the DL rule is a big bonus for those who experience unfortunate DL's during the week, but it definitely needs to be amended again to make moves like this legal.

And for all, instead of saying I am "crying" or "nitpicking," why not state how the rule was enacted legally instead of posting juvenile comments.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:24 pm

Interesting discussion. I remember a similar topic in football about replacing (removing?) players before the 4pm games on Sunday. To refresh, the position requirements for the NFFC are:

QB

RB

RB

WR

WR

WR

TE

Flex (RB/WR/TE)

Say one of your starting RBs is supposed to play at 4pm, and right before gametime, it is announced that he's out. On your bench, you've got a decent WR that you want to play. Your Flex spot is occupied by a RB. Under the NFFC rules, you could NOT activate that WR from your reserve and place him at Flex (moving the RB at the Flex spot to RB). Many questioned this rule, and the decision was made to not allow it. It had to be a direct one-for-one swap, with no movement of other players at other positions.

Now in baseball we have a similar situation for the Friday DL rule. Here, the ruling is quite the opposite of football. I am curious as to why this is the case. Seems to me that it should be the same for both sports.

A little clarification would help here.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:27 pm

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Cantu is NOT being replaced IN HIS SPOT ON THE ROSTER (hand selected by the owner himself)...by Niekro...he is in fact being replaced by a player NOT ON HIS BENCH.Exactly -- mixing and matching.

I'm surprised UFS isn't screaming about this!

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:32 pm

Originally posted by King of Queens:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Cantu is NOT being replaced IN HIS SPOT ON THE ROSTER (hand selected by the owner himself)...by Niekro...he is in fact being replaced by a player NOT ON HIS BENCH.Exactly -- mixing and matching.

I'm surprised UFS isn't screaming about this! [/QUOTE]I've been real busy. I don't see what the problem is. I have Cantu on three teams, at 2B, 3B, and CI, and I could easily have him at any of his 4 eligible (add mi) on all those teams. Why shouldn't I be able to replace him at any of those positions as long as I have the bench to do so?

What's really lame are the owners that make the IR replacement, and then want to switch and active player with an active player as a second move and give every excuse you can think of.

GOD Loves You · Post by **GOD Loves You** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 10:52 pm

Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Cantu is NOT being replaced IN HIS SPOT ON THE ROSTER (hand selected by the owner himself)...by Niekro...he is in fact being replaced by a player NOT ON HIS BENCH.Exactly -- mixing and matching.

I'm surprised UFS isn't screaming about this! [/QUOTE]I've been real busy. I don't see what the problem is. I have Cantu on three teams, at 2B, 3B, and CI, and I could easily have him at any of his 4 eligible (add mi) on all those teams. Why shouldn't I be able to replace him at any of those positions as long as I have the bench to do so?

What's really lame are the owners that make the IR replacement, and then want to switch and active player with an active player as a second move and give every excuse you can think of.

[/QUOTE]UFS, that is the point. He actually didn't have the bench to replace Cantu in the lineup. He had to move Hall to replace him AND then submit Niekro into Halls position.

If you had Cantu at CI and then decided to replace him with Niekro, then by all means this would be feasible. But, again, as it is written in the rules, the reserve player isn't actually replacing the starter, he's replacing another starter. I may seem a lil anal about this, but I am just reading the rule how they are written.

Again, I understand EXACTLY what Tom is saying that Niekro is replacing Cantu in the lineup, but according to what the rules actually say regarding position eligiblity working out, it's wrong. There I am done. Will never again try to help make the rules as clear as they should be.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:05 am

There's nothing wrong with a good discussion. But as I've stated -- and I've talked to Greg about this as well -- Gators followed our DL rule and made a perfectly legal move. There's really nothing more I can add to the discussion beyond what I've said already since I laid out what Gator did and how he followed our rule as it is written. Greg and I will talk more about this when he returns from NY on Monday but as we sit here today neither of us believe this is something that should cause controversy since Gators clearly followed our rule by being able to field a legal roster with his DL move regarding Cantu.

As always, we welcome any suggestions and comments you guys might have.

Two 84Gators and Son · Post by **Two 84Gators and Son** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:29 am

Thank you Tom. I think the issue is God hates me not the rule. He is upset about something I don't even remember at the Tampa draft. Oh well, life goes on. What league is God in? I am curious about how his team is doing.

nydownunder · Post by **nydownunder** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:57 am

I don't think anyone has a real problem with the rule (how it works mechanically). The problem is that many have had different impressions or interpretations on how it was going to work. Some believed onbly 1 for 1 changes were allowed, yet others (correctly) believed sveral players could be involved as long as the roster remained legal.

Hopefully, this hasn't caused anyone problems thus far for when a player had gone on the DL and there roster/bench was flexible enough to make the adjustments, but didn't do so because they didn't (think they could) do it with 1 player for 1 player.

Going forward I hope everyone is clear on just how flexible this tool is...as long as your roster has the ability to take advantage.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:04 am

Originally posted by Two 84Gators and Son:

Thank you Tom. I think the issue is God hates me not the rule. He is upset about something I don't even remember at the Tampa draft. Oh well, life goes on. What league is God in? I am curious about how his team is doing. Everyone should hate you for being a gator fan- but once we move past that. I wanted to compliment you on your kid-seemed like a great kid loves sports and new how to act in a room full of adults. He thought I should have picked Reyes over Beltran and told me about it. Tell him no way I could tell Beltran would pull a hammy in week 2- Good luck- Try ignoring God Loves you it works for about 315 of us.

GOD Loves You · Post by **GOD Loves You** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:35 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by Two 84Gators and Son:

Thank you Tom. I think the issue is God hates me not the rule. He is upset about something I don't even remember at the Tampa draft. Oh well, life goes on. What league is God in? I am curious about how his team is doing. Everyone should hate you for being a gator fan- but once we move past that. I wanted to compliment you on your kid-seemed like a great kid loves sports and new how to act in a room full of adults. He thought I should have picked Reyes over Beltran and told me about it. Tell him no way I could tell Beltran would pull a hammy in week 2- Good luck- Try ignoring God Loves you it works for about 315 of us. [/QUOTE]At least I can stand on being a man of my word Chest. You have proven you cannot.

I guess if I bash people and make inane comments I will have people's attention.

GOD Loves You · Post by **GOD Loves You** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:41 am

Originally posted by Two 84Gators and Son:

Thank you Tom. I think the issue is God hates me not the rule. He is upset about something I don't even remember at the Tampa draft. Oh well, life goes on. What league is God in? I am curious about how his team is doing. I don't hate anyone.

The rule isn't written correctly and needs to be worded differently. My issue is with how the rule is written, not you.

And my "jab" at you was because you complained we should leave the draft board on the floor because YOU were able to see it. Yet 3/4 of the drafters would not have been able to. Plus, we were just doing our job and you acted as if we should ignore our instructions because the board was in YOUR sight. I was making a joke, but it seems that the baseball players don't have quite the sense of humor that the football players have.

BTW, I would be questioning the wording of the rule regardless of who it pertained to.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:22 am

don't have quite the sense of humor that the football players have.

It is the guys from football who always moan about how annoying you are.

As far as being a man of my word- that you will not let go lets put it out there.

I accused you of putting those awful pictures out there and was wrong all you had done is reply to it, offered to apologize publicly and Greg asked me to let it go. I apologized privately- guess that is not enough for you. Between that and minor draft incident you seem to remember- you see a pattern here?

And if it bothered you so much why not walk up and talk to me about it in person- I intentionally avoided you because based upon your posts I thought it would be a 30 minute conversation.

[ April 28, 2006, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: Chest Rockwell ]

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:24 am

Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

UFS, that is the point. He actually didn't have the bench to replace Cantu in the lineup. He had to move Hall to replace him AND then submit Niekro into Halls position. And that why you draft guys like Figgins, Cantu and Hall.

GOD Loves You · Post by **GOD Loves You** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:52 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

It is the guys from football who always moan about how annoying you are.

No one has ever addressed this with me personally, nor on the boards. Are they moaning privately to you?

As far as being a man of my word- that you will not let go lets put it out there.

I accused you of putting those awful pictures out there and was wrong all you had done is reply to it, offered to apologize publicly and Greg asked me to let it go. I apologized privately- guess that is not enough for you.

Is Greg your boss? We live in America and you don't need Greg's blessing to apologize to anyone.

I have never mentioned this at all since the incident and wouldn't have until you said I should be ignored. I just wanted to remind you of how you already ignored me by going against your word.

And you never once said you were sorry. I still have the messages if you need your memory refreshed. You stated you would walk up to me and offer me an apology after posing a semi-threat of "remember, we will be in the same room in a month."

And if it bothered you so much why not walk up and talk to me about it in person- I intentionally avoided you because based upon your posts I thought it would be a 30 minute conversation.

Let's see, 7 facilitators.....40+ drafters, what are the better odds of finding the other person.

Plus, I asked you what your real name was in our correspondence and you didn't reply, so I wasn't going to go around and ask ever person, "Do you go by the moniker "Chest Rockwell"???

I honestly wasn't bothered by this at all, as I forgave you instantly, but find it hard to have any respect for someone who doesn't follow through on what they say, regardless of the circumstances.

BTW, if you have a clean shaven head, you did talk to me when you(or whomever it was) came up to us facilitators and made a derogatory remark regarding the MVP girl.

Lastly, some of us can type extremely fast, 70+WPM, so for me to type my long, boring replies takes no time at all.

For you to have kept your word and by following through on your apology, it wouldn't have taken any time at all either.

And what I said to TwoGators was a joke, but some jokes are done to bring light of situations in a persons life to make them realize how they are as a human. Funny how someone like you and Gators can belittle and critize me, yet I am the one who should be ignored.

I love being part of the minority anyways as Eagle's fly solo, not with the crows.

Don't worry I won't be posting anymore on here since people moan about me. Maybe if I had the moniker Ron Jeremy or Satans Devils I would demand more respect.

In the words of SNAKE: peace and harmony.

Plymouth · Post by **Plymouth** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:47 am

I can't believe this discussion goes on and on. The Gators move was legal, I asked this very question before the season started and got the same answer from Greg. Get your bench strength up and you can do the same thing. GEEEEEEZ!

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:11 am

Originally posted by GOD Loves You:

quote:Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

It is the guys from football who always moan about how annoying you are.

No one has ever addressed this with me personally, nor on the boards. Are they moaning privately to you?

As far as being a man of my word- that you will not let go lets put it out there.

I accused you of putting those awful pictures out there and was wrong all you had done is reply to it, offered to apologize publicly and Greg asked me to let it go. I apologized privately- guess that is not enough for you.

Is Greg your boss? We live in America and you don't need Greg's blessing to apologize to anyone.

I have never mentioned this at all since the incident and wouldn't have until you said I should be ignored. I just wanted to remind you of how you already ignored me by going against your word.

And you never once said you were sorry. I still have the messages if you need your memory refreshed. You stated you would walk up to me and offer me an apology after posing a semi-threat of "remember, we will be in the same room in a month."

And if it bothered you so much why not walk up and talk to me about it in person- I intentionally avoided you because based upon your posts I thought it would be a 30 minute conversation.

Let's see, 7 facilitators.....40+ drafters, what are the better odds of finding the other person.

Plus, I asked you what your real name was in our correspondence and you didn't reply, so I wasn't going to go around and ask ever person, "Do you go by the moniker "Chest Rockwell"???

I honestly wasn't bothered by this at all, as I forgave you instantly, but find it hard to have any respect for someone who doesn't follow through on what they say, regardless of the circumstances.

BTW, if you have a clean shaven head, you did talk to me when you(or whomever it was) came up to us facilitators and made a derogatory remark regarding the MVP girl.

Lastly, some of us can type extremely fast, 70+WPM, so for me to type my long, boring replies takes no time at all.

For you to have kept your word and by following through on your apology, it wouldn't have taken any time at all either.

And what I said to TwoGators was a joke, but some jokes are done to bring light of situations in a persons life to make them realize how they are as a human. Funny how someone like you and Gators can belittle and critize me, yet I am the one who should be ignored.

I love being part of the minority anyways as Eagle's fly solo, not with the crows.

Don't worry I won't be posting anymore on here since people moan about me. Maybe if I had the moniker Ron Jeremy or Satans Devils I would demand more respect.

In the words of SNAKE: peace and harmony. [/QUOTE]And on the seventh day, he rested