Gaming the System??

RTKS · Post by **RTKS** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:57 am

I noticed something this week and was curious to how things worked.

Wang is currently on the DL at the time we set our lineups today. He is supposed to pitch twice this week. Once against TB and once against Boston.

Theoretically, under the DL rule you could start Wang for the TB game and then on Friday bench him (He was on the DL at the lineup set time) and have him on the bench against Boston.

Is this possible? Or will his DL designation change on Friday and he will not be able to be benched?

I just wanted to point it out, because in my opinion that would be abuse of the system and the intent of the rules.

I have Wang in my league and have decided to bench him for the week, for a couple of reasons. First start back from DL and he is going against Boston.

Greg or Tom, thoughts here would be appreciated so I understand this and hope no one is abusing the system.

Richie · Post by **Richie** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:05 pm

It actually works the opposite. He will not be labelled a DL after he gets off so u cant do that. But with a guy like Mussina, you can start him for the week, then Friday move him down and move up a pitcher who you want for his second start only.

mdz129 · Post by **mdz129** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:46 pm

Wrong! You can start Wang for the first start and switch him before the DL tag is removed(before wednesday at 12:01am).--a GLITCH pointed out last year.

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:30 am

Yes, there is a big gap on this one. I could have done it, but felt that it was an abuse of the rule, even though the system allowed for it

I wonder if Stats can figure out if anyone did it?

Spy

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 2:36 am

Once he comes off the DL and obviously pitches on Tuesday, he should not have any chance to go out of your lineup on Friday at all. I have alerted STATS of this and if there is a glitch in the system it needs to be closed now. Any player who comes off the DL before Friday's deadline shouldn't be allowed to be taken out of your starting lineup and reserved on Friday. STATS knows that.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:17 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Once he comes off the DL and obviously pitches on Tuesday, he should not have any chance to go out of your lineup on Friday at all. I have alerted STATS of this and if there is a glitch in the system it needs to be closed now. Any player who comes off the DL before Friday's deadline shouldn't be allowed to be taken out of your starting lineup and reserved on Friday. STATS knows that. Here's another scenario. Let's say you have an active pitcher (e.g. Scott Kazmir) who faces the Yankees on Monday and the Royals on Saturday. Under the current set-up, you can place a DL player who will NOT be activated during the week (e.g. Pedro Martinez) in your lineup for Monday. On Friday, you move Pedro to bench, and activate Kazmir. By doing this, you can avoid Kazmir's bad start and play him for his good start.

Like the Chien-Ming Wang example, it's another unintended "glitch" that can be exploited.

Suggestion: why not make it so that teams that have a DL player in their active roster to start the week CANNOT replace that player on Friday?

mdz129 · Post by **mdz129** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:28 am

K of Q,

I did that last year and it worked great-- I skipped a Colorado start( the pitcher threw 8 scoreless innings) and had the San Diego start( 6 ER in 1 2/3)....so much for beating the system!

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:22 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Once he comes off the DL and obviously pitches on Tuesday, he should not have any chance to go out of your lineup on Friday at all. I have alerted STATS of this and if there is a glitch in the system it needs to be closed now. Any player who comes off the DL before Friday's deadline shouldn't be allowed to be taken out of your starting lineup and reserved on Friday. STATS knows that. Here's another scenario. Let's say you have an active pitcher (e.g. Scott Kazmir) who faces the Yankees on Monday and the Royals on Saturday. Under the current set-up, you can place a DL player who will NOT be activated during the week (e.g. Pedro Martinez) in your lineup for Monday. On Friday, you move Pedro to bench, and activate Kazmir. By doing this, you can avoid Kazmir's bad start and play him for his good start.

Like the Chien-Ming Wang example, it's another unintended "glitch" that can be exploited.

Suggestion: why not make it so that teams that have a DL player in their active roster to start the week CANNOT replace that player on Friday? [/QUOTE]This was discussed last year and if I recall Perry Van Hook wrote a story on how he was going to circumvent the system as he had a Dodgers' pitcher (Brett Tomko, I believe) pitching at Colorado early in the week and wanted to avoid that start. Tomko pitched a beauty, of course. But you are right, this is possible to do if you are purposely trying to avoid that 2-start week. Just don't try to out-think yourself all the time.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:51 am

Chris, from STATS concerning Wang:

If the player is removed from the DL before the Thursday night deadline, then he would not be able to be moved to the bench. Just because he's on the DL at the Monday deadline, doesn't mean he can be moved to the bench on Friday if he's removed from the DL during the week.

I think in this case, Wang has not yet officially been activated so he's still officially on the DL. So, someone could still bench him right now because he's officially still on the DL. If they wait until later in the week, though, when he's no longer on the DL, they would no longer be able to move him to the bench.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:04 am

So to be clear, according to STATS, Wang could be moved from active to reserve anytime between Monday 7pm and tonight when he is activated by the Yankees.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:36 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

So to be clear, according to STATS, Wang could be moved from active to reserve anytime between Monday 7pm and tonight when he is activated by the Yankees. Yes, you are allowed to put any DL player onto your bench in the NFBC until he officially comes off the MLB DL. In Spyhunter's example, if he really wanted Wang for this first start and put him in his starting lineup and then quickly DL'd him yesterday because he didn't want that second start, it holds his move. Such is the programming we have and it's a rare example indeed.

Joe Sambito · Post by **Joe Sambito** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:51 am

So what is the consensus, is it a bush league move or good managing? The rules are what they are, the situation is unique, but if someone is trying to put their staff in the best position to succeed doesn't it make sense that he should do it. Wang was 4-0 vs. TB last year with a 1.15 ERA. And 2-2 with a 5.28 against the Sox. Wouldn't a manager not be doing his job, if he didn't take advantage of this oddity?

Hangtown · Post by **Hangtown** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:59 am

Originally posted by Joe Sambito:

So what is the consensus, is it a bush league move or good managing? The rules are what they are, the situation is unique, but if someone is trying to put their staff in the best position to succeed doesn't it make sense that he should do it. Wang was 4-0 vs. TB last year with a 1.15 ERA. And 2-2 with a 5.28 against the Sox. Wouldn't a manager not be doing his job, if he didn't take advantage of this oddity? Good managing... IMO

Although I'm not sure I'd want to use Wang coming off the DL, even against TB as they've been as good as the Stankies lately.

[ April 24, 2007, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Hangtown ]

mdz129 · Post by **mdz129** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:34 am

In this case Wand is a two start pitcher-- the most effective move for a DL pitcher is where a DL pitcher is pitching Wednesday or Thursday(only one start for the week) and you bench him (switch him for another starter pitching Friday or saturday-his only start of the week)-- thus you get 2 starts for the week for that one slot. Hmmmmmm.......

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:53 am

From Greg's post it sounds like he feels this ia small bug and reasonable for people to exploit. Personally, I think the 'spirit' of the NFBC is weekly moves and the DL rule was a nice way to not-punish people for injuries, not a way to avoid starts and get extra starts. However, just because I don't like it doesn't mean anything and if Greg is fine with the rule being like this then I will aggressively manage within the NFBC rule set going forward

Spy