Questionable Move?

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:12 pm

Greg/Tom:

In the $1,300 Mixed Auction, I am in a position to possibly win money in the league...maybe even win it all.

Team Fadango (Scott Simonetti) usually likes to kick dirt in my face and proclaim himself as the best auction player ever...certainly better than me.

Entering this week, Fandango was in 14th place, he hadn't logged in for a month and hadn't made a FAAB pickup in September.

Well today he logged in and pulled David Aardsma and Francisco Cordero from his lineup and replaced them with Sean Marshall and Aaron Laffey.

Why would he do such a thing?

Because the team I'm battling with for first place in the league is 1 save behind Fandango. He has 77 saves and Fandango has 78 saves. With Fandango pulling his closers, it almost guarentees that the other team will pass him out and gain another league point.

I'm hoping this move doesn't cost me any money as it could be the result of Fandango being a dick and/or collusive behavior

What other explanation is there?

In the interest of league integrity, can you find out why he made such a move?

To recap:

1. Fandango hadn't logged in for a month.

2. Fandango hadn't made a FAAB pikup in Sept.

3. Fandango hadn't changed his lineup in Sept.

4. Today Fandango logged in and pulled David Aardsma and Francisco Cordero from his lineup and replaced them with Sean Marshall and Aaron Laffey.

5. The team I'm battling with for first place in the league is 1 save behind Fandango. He has 77 saves and Fandango has 78 saves. With Fandango pulling his closers, it almost guarentees that the other team will pass him out and gain another league point.

+edited to remove content some deem questionable+

[ September 29, 2009, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: Gekko and The King ]

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:34 pm

Does Fandango have an opportunity to move into a money spot or to move up in the standings by improving in the wins category?

I'm hopeful that Fandango has legitimate reasons for making these moves. For if these moves were made as per Mark's allegations, it should be dealt with harshly.

Nothing puts more of a blemish on Fantasy Sports than collusion.

Glenn

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:35 pm

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

Does Fandango have an opportunity to move into a money spot or to move up in the standings by improving in the wins category?

Fandango is in 14th place and has ZERO chance of winning any money.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:36 pm

standings entering today...

1 BN Bears 104.5

2 Guess Who? Auction 102.5

3 Team Throop 99

4 Team Davis 94

5 Underdogs 93

6 Cant move up in the Standings 89

7 Billy Batts Boys 86.5

8 A Death Squad 84

9 Innocence to Mayhem 79.5

10 August Rush 74

11 TEAM M*A*S*H 74

12 Red Sox Nation 69.5

13 ROUNDMANN 54.5

14 Fandango 49

15 RotoSpin.com 47

[ September 28, 2009, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Gekko and The King ]

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:44 pm

Mark, I think you have valid cause to question these moves.

Glenn

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:47 pm

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

Mark, I think you have valid cause to question these moves.

Glenn Glenn - You know how frustrating football is with injuries. It's hard enough to put yourself in a position to win just dealing with normal stuff. The LAST thing I want to do is put my money up if some joker has a personal vendetta against me or collusion has taken place. Totally uncalled for. Not only has the wind gone out of my sails, but my sails have come crashing down. I simply can't believe that 26 weeks of hard work could come down to someone playing games or colluding against me.

[ September 28, 2009, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Gekko and The King ]

overyourshoulder · Post by **overyourshoulder** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:55 pm

As long as Fandango is not doing anything against the rules, he has a right to manage his team as he wishes, he paid his entry fee like all the other owners did.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:07 pm

Collusion is against the rules....and more importantly hurts the integrity of a contest.

I believe the commissioner has leeway to make decisions that protect the contest's integrity as per rule #20 copied and pasted below in bold.

20. Commissioner Decisions: All decisions made by the Commissioner of the NFBC are final. Tough decisions sometimes must be made about eligibility rules, lineups, etc., and NFBC participants must accept the unbiased ruling of the NFBC Commissioner.

I'm curious to what Greg and Tom will rule in this case. I'm sure they'll investigate and make a fair ruling.

Glenn

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:46 pm

I like Mark (Gekko)...but not everyone does.

I did a similar thing way back when. Actually not that similar, but I set my lineup more favorably to helping another guy. At the time I was pulling for Chest Rockwell to win our league, simply because I had chatted with him in Vegas, and had never met Welcome to Stevieland (who was the main threat to beat Chest). It wasn't that big of a deal...but this stuff happens.

I didn't do something as bad as pull my starters, but I went after categories that would help Chest have a better chance to win the league. I guess that's the key...I attacked categories, rather than pulled them off the table.

I would not do it to Stevieland now, (hell...I might do the opposite!

), and have admitted to doing this in the past. I very much respect and like the tandem that runs Welcome to Stevieland, so I'd be neutral to playing spoiler, but at the time, I was playing spoiler and trying to have what little say I could in the final standings.

Karma is a bitch, and the NFBC should NEVER take over a team in crunch time. (or any time IMO) If the NFBC wants to kick Fandango out of the league...so be it...but he can choose to play spoiler if he wants to...as long as he didn't plan this out with the other team, but rather did this on his own.

I'm currently doing the same thing in a home league...I picked up a few speed guys to screw over a loudmouth owner who is right above me in steals and I can ruin his shot at winning money by passing him in stolen bases.

It is just part of the game.

If you treat people right...they do not go out of their way to do such things...but if they know each other and are working in unison...the hammer should come down.

I think that is a total and complete a-hole move. (pulling players)

Like I said...I think Mark (Gordon Gekko) is a great guy and likes to play around a bit, livening up the MB..but this here is bullshit.

...but then again...Karma is a bitch.

(edited to dumb down and spoon feed each thought)

[ September 29, 2009, 12:26 AM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:12 pm

Originally posted by overyourshoulder:

As long as Fandango is not doing anything against the rules, he has a right to manage his team as he wishes, he paid his entry fee like all the other owners did. So Week 13 of the NFL this season, I can pull my starters against my opponent (someone I like) and possibly let him win the league?

Fandango hasn't made any changes in Sept, hell he hasn't even logged on in Sept. If he was managing the whole way through, I see no problem with the move. But Fandango's moves ARE 100% OBVIOUS, he is intentionally trying to alter the INTEGRITY OF THE LEAGUE without concern for his team.

[ September 29, 2009, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Gekko and The King ]

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:25 pm

Also, Fandango has been starting Emmanuel Burriss since May 11th.

Burriss was demoted to the minors in mid June, then broke his toe and remains on the DL out for the season. He started Burriss this week, even with a healthy Willie Bloomquist on his bench.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:29 pm

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

It is just part of the game.

Count me out of any future NFBC Auction's if this is part of the game. Something so BLANTANT as this???

If my team is out of it in the NFFC this year and I (or anyone else) pull something like this, how do you think it will go over? People are going to cry bloody murder.

I'll wait for Greg/Tom to post.

[ September 29, 2009, 06:17 AM: Message edited by: Gekko and The King ]

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:22 am

Collusion accuses BN Bears of being an active part in whatever this is. Collusion is against the rules and that is what must be determined if it occurred by Greg and Tom, first and foremost. That is what would hurt the contest.

As to the other, let us call it a "stick in the eye" move, I would not do it no matter if I thought the other owner was a tool or not. Greg and Tom will have to make the tough call I am sure after talking with all impacted parties.

billywaz · Post by **billywaz** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:38 am

Knowing how you and Fandango have gone back and forth, I think this is strictly a "dick move".

I don't think you can ever prove collusion here (actually I KNOW you can't), so that isn't the issue.

Bottom line is that he would rather see someone else win than yourself. Surely knowing your history with Fandango, you can see that.

It sucks, but unfortunately there is nothing in the rules (and never will be) for leaving your roster dormant over a month and then deciding to make a pickup the last week.

He is screwing you over, but it is completely within the rules.

My only suggestion would be to **** off less people going forward.

[ September 29, 2009, 06:39 AM: Message edited by: billywaz ]

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:48 am

Originally posted by billywaz:

It sucks, but unfortunately there is nothing in the rules (and never will be) for leaving your roster dormant over a month and then deciding to make a pickup the last week.

When what Fandango did was so BLATANT (just look at the evidence I submitted), I believe this situation is in the Rules…

20. Commissioner Decisions: All decisions made by the Commissioner of the NFBC are final. Tough decisions sometimes must be made about eligibility rules, lineups , etc., and NFBC participants must accept the unbiased ruling of the NFBC Commissioner.

[ September 29, 2009, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: Gekko and The King ]

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:51 am

Originally posted by Edwards Kings:

Collusion accuses BN Bears of being an active part in whatever this is. Collusion is against the rules and that is what must be determined if it occurred by Greg and Tom, first and foremost. That is what would hurt the contest.

As to the other, let us call it a "stick in the eye" move, I would not do it no matter if I thought the other owner was a tool or not. Greg and Tom will have to make the tough call I am sure after talking with all impacted parties. yes, i have no proof of collusion by BN Bears, but it certainly is a possible explanation for what has happened. like billy said, there is NO WAY collusion will be proved. It's the perception of it.

Hopefully Greg/Tom will look at all the facts here and talk with all interested parties.

Dirt Dogs · Post by **Dirt Dogs** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:55 am

hey Gekko,

Dont worry, the guy behind fandango in saves will get zero this week! The title is yours!!!!

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:18 am

Originally posted by Gekko and The King:

quote:Originally posted by Edwards Kings:

Collusion accuses BN Bears of being an active part in whatever this is. Collusion is against the rules and that is what must be determined if it occurred by Greg and Tom, first and foremost. That is what would hurt the contest.

As to the other, let us call it a "stick in the eye" move, I would not do it no matter if I thought the other owner was a tool or not. Greg and Tom will have to make the tough call I am sure after talking with all impacted parties. yes, i have no proof of collusion by BN Bears, but it certainly is a possible explanation for what has happened. like billy said, there is NO WAY collusion will be proved. It's the perception of it.

Hopefully Greg/Tom will look at all the facts here and talk with all interested parties. [/QUOTE]Mark, since you went to the public forum with this before contacting Tom and I first to investigate, I guess I have to respond in the public arena. I can certainly contact Scott and ask him why he changed his lineup, but I think it's pretty obvious to one and all why he did that. Your feud with him apparently has him hoping you don't win this league. It's not right what he is doing but I can't prevent him from setting his lineup the way he sees fit. If someone wanted me to get involved in setting lineups then they should have contacted me in June and had me take out Burriss because I'm sure that cost folks in your league points too.

Now your accusation of collusion on a public forum is another matter. If you want me to contact BN Bears to see if he colluded with Scott on this I will. It's a hell of an accusation against someone who has battled hard all year long to put himself in a position to win a $1300 Mixed Auction League title. And again, an accusation like this should have been done privately, not here.

I will reach out to both parties right now and if there is no collusion then I'll feel better about this. If there is, I'll handle it appropriately. But right now I think the beef should be with Scott and nobody else.

You are correct, if this is what happens in leagues then you should want no part of them. Outside of Lance admitting that he also did this once, I've never heard of an example like this in the NFBC. But it can certainly happen when personal feuds get bigger than the league itself.

I'll look into this and get back to everyone privately.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:34 am

Just a followup: The person you are currently tied for first place with is a first-year NFBC player who certainly did not know Scott before joining this league. He appears to have battled you and the others tooth and nail throughout the year and at this point doesn't need to be part of this conversation. I'll make sure there are no shenanigans, but again, at this point I'm not quite sure why you included him in this conversation and honestly that's unfortunate for him.

The answer to your question is likely the second one, but I think you already knew that.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:40 am

Greg,

I DID email you within minutes of making my very first post yesterday.

Either Scott is dumping his team for me to lose or he has colluded with BN Bears. Sorry for such a harsh accusation, but it is certainly possible. Please contact Scott and BN Bears and see what they say.

And you can certainly understand if I decide to not play in any NFBC events that Scott is a part of next year. Even if it means missing the NY Auction and the main event. If I decide to play (even with Scott there) make sure you have extra security in NY. You said my beef should be with Scott, and I WILL confront him and ask him why he did something like this. Knowing him, he will be drunk and undoubtedly things will escalate quickly.

And I assume this is true for football (NFFC), yes? “It's not right what he is doing but I can't prevent him from setting his lineup the way he sees fit.”

Thanks.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:49 am

Originally posted by Gekko and The King:

Greg,

I DID email you within minutes of making my very first post yesterday.

Either Scott is dumping his team for me to lose or he has colluded with BN Bears. Sorry for such a harsh accusation, but it is certainly possible. Please contact Scott and BN Bears and see what they say.

And you can certainly understand if I decide to not play in any NFBC events that Scott is a part of next year. Even if it means missing the NY Auction and the main event. If I decide to play (even with Scott there) make sure you have extra security in NY. You said my beef should be with Scott, and I WILL confront him and ask him why he did something like this. Knowing him, he will be drunk and undoubtedly things will escalate quickly.

And I assume this is true for football (NFFC), yes? “It's not right what he is doing but I can't prevent him from setting his lineup the way he sees fit.”

Thanks. Mark, your e-mail last night said "I just posted this on the boards." If you wanted me to look into this first I would have. You have put this out here on the public forums and accused someone of possibly colluding with Scott. That's more than a harsh accusation, is damning to the person who is just battling you for first place with no knowledge of how Scott is setting his starting lineup. Your beef is with Scott, not Ken.

Yes, I have reached out to both owners to see what is up with this situation. Again, I think we know what the answer is. And as for the lineup decisions, if you wanted me to stop Scott from hurting this league long ago you could have contacted me or him or anyone about him having Burriss and other injured players in his starting lineup while they were out. We don't set lineups for other teams.

Yes, it's obvious that you shouldn't be in the same league as Scott again. I agree. But it's possible others dislike you enough to do the same thing. I don't know for sure, but it's possible.

Scott isn't in the NFFC, but as you know we don't set lineups there either. If a guy plays all injured guys to lose a game on purpose, we don't intercede. We just don't. We trust that our guys are competitive enough to win every single game and battle for every single point in the NFBC and NFFC and we trust our owners enough to manage their teams as they see fit.

Good luck to you and I'll let you know what my conversations on this matter uncover.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:03 am

Thanks for the quick follow-up this morning Greg. I (like you) would hate to have league prizes decided by such a tactic. And I’m not “damning” anyone. I’m asking a legit question that certainly is a possibility. I hope Ken wasn’t involved and if he wasn’t, that would be great news. Ken has battled very hard this year.

As for checking Scott’s lineup, I don’t have time to check anyone’s unless there is a reason. Yesterday, I looked to see where close point battles where within categories. I noticed saves were hotly contested between Scott and Ken. I then drilled down to see each owner’s rosters. At that time, I noticed the lineup changes.

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:06 am

Greg, I agree with GG on this one. Presuming that there is no collusion, the team that made the changes should have to show you that his sudden changes would be a BENEFIT TO HIS TEAM in some way. Since collusion will always be impossible to prove, in order to protect the integrity of these leagues, it is imperative that everyone is playing to improve their own teams' position within the standings.

It is one thing if he focused on beating GG in a category, but allowing him to tank in a category is the equivalent of helping another team WITHOUT helping his own team. So it is collusion without the conspiracy (yes I am an attorney) and since this league is supposed to be devoid of personal interests, it does cast a shadow on the integrity of league play.

Shame on fandango...seriously...whether or not you like GG should be secondary to playing fairly.

On top of which, if we did not have personalities like GG to discuss strategy, boast of wins, how boring would this all be especially from November-February.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:11 am

Originally posted by Schwks:

Greg, I agree with GG on this one. Presuming that there is no collusion, the team that made the changes should have to show you that his sudden changes would be a BENEFIT TO HIS TEAM in some way. Since collusion will always be impossible to prove, in order to protect the integrity of these leagues, it is imperative that everyone is playing to improve their own teams' position within the standings.

Fandango had E.Burriss in his lineup since mid may. Burris has been on the DL since June. It is OBVIOUS that Fandango is not trying to benefit his team.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:13 am

Originally posted by Schwks:

It is one thing if he focused on beating GG in a category, but allowing him to tank in a category is the equivalent of helping another team WITHOUT helping his own team. So it is collusion without the conspiracy (yes I am an attorney) and since this league is supposed to be devoid of personal interests, it does cast a shadow on the integrity of league play.

Amen.