Just wondering people's thoughts on the Rays/Twins trade. The Rays received a definite upgrade in their bullpen(potential closer?) as well as their starting staff. I'm not sure Bartlett is an upgrade over Harris, but with Brignac's debut on the horizon, it won't matter.
Is Young an upgrade over Hunter offensively? What does this say about the Rays OF? I so wished they would've traded Rocco instead..if anyone would even trade for him.
I know the Rays are a cellar dweller, but I must say I'm really happy with this news and seriously think they will have one of the best staffs in the majors within the next few seasons...barring major injuries of course.
Which team got better?
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Joe Sambito
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Which team got better?
Is Young being tabbed as their center fielder?
"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest overcome it."
Which team got better?
Twins throw-in Eduardo Morlan may become a stud - 5:1 K/bb and 12.7 k/9 between a/aa.
Garza and Delmon are both great talents (top 10 prospects last year - Young was Minor League player of the year a couple years ago)and both teams were able to trade from their strengths to their needs, so I feel that this part of the trade improves both teams.
The D-rays look to have gotten the better of the SS swap, but NBD.
However, if Morlan continues to develop the D-rays may well have the best young staff in baseball.
On the Twins side, Young could become Vlad clone, which is certainly high praise. He is young and holding his own, yet for this trade to work in the Twins favor he will need to get MVP votes regularly over the next decade.
[ November 29, 2007, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: Sheep ]
Garza and Delmon are both great talents (top 10 prospects last year - Young was Minor League player of the year a couple years ago)and both teams were able to trade from their strengths to their needs, so I feel that this part of the trade improves both teams.
The D-rays look to have gotten the better of the SS swap, but NBD.
However, if Morlan continues to develop the D-rays may well have the best young staff in baseball.
On the Twins side, Young could become Vlad clone, which is certainly high praise. He is young and holding his own, yet for this trade to work in the Twins favor he will need to get MVP votes regularly over the next decade.
[ November 29, 2007, 07:18 AM: Message edited by: Sheep ]
Main C3-pick#12 Crawford/Upton/Mags/Guillen/Chipper/Zimmerman/Del Young
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Edwards Kings
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Which team got better?
This years winner is TB. Del Young was OK in '07, but not a MLB star, much less a future Hall of Famer that the hype led you to believe. He is young (no pun intended) and could yet develop. In two or three years when he develops (if he delvelops) TB could be crying in their beer.
But this year, Bartlett gives them a SS above what they would not have in Wilson or Zobrist. And MORE speed. They now have a place for steady Iwamura at 2B and welcome to the bigs Mr. Longoria.
You have to like Kazmir, Shields, Garza, and Sonnanstine as your front four. There are a lot of MLB teams who will start the season with much less in the rotation.
Will Pena repeat his '07 numbers. No. But he has always been a good power source. Is Percival the answer in the bullpen. I can't imagine. I am not sure who will fill that last OF spot besides Upton and Crawford. So there are some holes to fill, but this trade adds SP depth and speed. Not a bad kind of team to build towards playing in that ballpark.
2007 winner...TB. Future winner...TBD.
But this year, Bartlett gives them a SS above what they would not have in Wilson or Zobrist. And MORE speed. They now have a place for steady Iwamura at 2B and welcome to the bigs Mr. Longoria.
You have to like Kazmir, Shields, Garza, and Sonnanstine as your front four. There are a lot of MLB teams who will start the season with much less in the rotation.
Will Pena repeat his '07 numbers. No. But he has always been a good power source. Is Percival the answer in the bullpen. I can't imagine. I am not sure who will fill that last OF spot besides Upton and Crawford. So there are some holes to fill, but this trade adds SP depth and speed. Not a bad kind of team to build towards playing in that ballpark.
2007 winner...TB. Future winner...TBD.
Baseball is a slow, boring, complex, cerebral game that doesn't lend itself to histrionics. You 'take in' a baseball game, something odd to say about a football or basketball game, with the clock running and the bodies flying.
Charles Krauthammer
Charles Krauthammer
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Gordon Gekko
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Which team got better?
Garza was one of the players I am going to highlight in my sleeper article. I think he will be very good this year. Most likely he'll be undervalued on draft day in march. Good buying opp
Which team got better?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
Garza was one of the players I am going to highlight in my sleeper article. I think he will be very good this year. Most likely he'll be undervalued on draft day in march. Good buying opp wake me in the 23rd rd, if he's still there I'll bite. Trade to TB hurts his value with no more minny pen behind him and the ny-bos-tor offenses at every turn. ugh.
Garza was one of the players I am going to highlight in my sleeper article. I think he will be very good this year. Most likely he'll be undervalued on draft day in march. Good buying opp wake me in the 23rd rd, if he's still there I'll bite. Trade to TB hurts his value with no more minny pen behind him and the ny-bos-tor offenses at every turn. ugh.
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Gordon Gekko
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Which team got better?
Originally posted by Quahogs:
wake me in the 23rd rd, if he's still there I'll bite. Much like I suggested...he's being undervalued. 23rd round? He'll be mine earlier than that. I was thinking round 17.
wake me in the 23rd rd, if he's still there I'll bite. Much like I suggested...he's being undervalued. 23rd round? He'll be mine earlier than that. I was thinking round 17.
Which team got better?
Originally posted by Joe Sambito:
Is Young being tabbed as their center fielder? No, Young will not play CF for the Twins but will be their LF with Kubel moving to DH and playing the OF on occassion to rest the regulars. The Twins are still in the market for a CF.
I think the Twins won on this deal, Garza still has potential written all over him but he has had a couple of chances and has not yet seen stardom. He gives up a lot of hits for being a so called power pitcher and the stadium in the Bay area will not be to his liking. Throw in the fact that he wants to pitch his way and not what is called by the catcher and pitching coach and you have to be some what concerned. I still like Garza but am now having some doubts. If what everyone says about Youg comes to fruition and he indeed turns out to even get close to Vlad's status, the Twins got a steal. Bartlett can go either way, he seems to be stuck on a plateau right now but the Rays wanted even more speed. The relief pitcher thrown in was not in the Twins plans for the near future and I think the Rays would have been better off taking Rincon as the original deal was proposed but I like the deal better the way it went down for the Twins. The Twins will probably give Casilla a shot at SS long term, probably not to start 2008.
Is Young being tabbed as their center fielder? No, Young will not play CF for the Twins but will be their LF with Kubel moving to DH and playing the OF on occassion to rest the regulars. The Twins are still in the market for a CF.
I think the Twins won on this deal, Garza still has potential written all over him but he has had a couple of chances and has not yet seen stardom. He gives up a lot of hits for being a so called power pitcher and the stadium in the Bay area will not be to his liking. Throw in the fact that he wants to pitch his way and not what is called by the catcher and pitching coach and you have to be some what concerned. I still like Garza but am now having some doubts. If what everyone says about Youg comes to fruition and he indeed turns out to even get close to Vlad's status, the Twins got a steal. Bartlett can go either way, he seems to be stuck on a plateau right now but the Rays wanted even more speed. The relief pitcher thrown in was not in the Twins plans for the near future and I think the Rays would have been better off taking Rincon as the original deal was proposed but I like the deal better the way it went down for the Twins. The Twins will probably give Casilla a shot at SS long term, probably not to start 2008.
Plymouth
www.twinstrivia.com
www.twinstrivia.com
Which team got better?
i like garza and his potential, but now he'll have the yanks and red sox in front of him a lot more.
bill cleavenger
BIG BLUE NATION
"we don't rebuild, we reload"
BIG BLUE NATION
"we don't rebuild, we reload"
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Gordon Gekko
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Which team got better?
funny how kaz and shields had good seasons last year. i think the sox and yanks were in their division as well
Which team got better?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
funny how kaz and shields had good seasons last year. i think the sox and yanks were in their division as well Apparently the yanks and sox WEREN'T the problem !
Kaz and Shields vs Baltimore (4.91 1.69)and (5.25 1.50) respectively.
You just have to hope they get paired up with NYY or BOS with Baltimore during their 2 start weeks !
funny how kaz and shields had good seasons last year. i think the sox and yanks were in their division as well Apparently the yanks and sox WEREN'T the problem !
Kaz and Shields vs Baltimore (4.91 1.69)and (5.25 1.50) respectively.
You just have to hope they get paired up with NYY or BOS with Baltimore during their 2 start weeks !Which team got better?
Kazmir was 2-3 with 5 no decisions (Rays lost 3 of 5) against the Yanks and RSox but he did have a very nice 2.66 ERA in 60+ innings.
Shields was not so fortunate with an 8.14 ERA n 20+ innings with an 0-3 record and a no decision which the Rays lost.
Shields was not so fortunate with an 8.14 ERA n 20+ innings with an 0-3 record and a no decision which the Rays lost.
Plymouth
www.twinstrivia.com
www.twinstrivia.com
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Edwards Kings
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Which team got better?
In the five games he pitched against BLT in 2007, I have Shields averaging a little more than 7 IP with a 3.612 ERA and a WHIP of 1.189, and a 3 to 1 K/BB ratio????
I had lower numbers for Kaz too in his five 2007 games against BLT, but they were still not so good (4.55 ERA, 1.65 WHIP) which is stange.
I had lower numbers for Kaz too in his five 2007 games against BLT, but they were still not so good (4.55 ERA, 1.65 WHIP) which is stange.
Baseball is a slow, boring, complex, cerebral game that doesn't lend itself to histrionics. You 'take in' a baseball game, something odd to say about a football or basketball game, with the clock running and the bodies flying.
Charles Krauthammer
Charles Krauthammer
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Edwards Kings
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Which team got better?
Originally posted by Plymouth:
Kazmir was 2-3 with 5 no decisions (Rays lost 3 of 5) against the Yanks and RSox but he did have a very nice 2.66 ERA in 60+ innings.
Shields was not so fortunate with an 8.14 ERA n 20+ innings with an 0-3 record and a no decision which the Rays lost. On the Yanks, Shields had one game at NYY in which he gave up 10 ER. Take that one game out and you have a different story. I wonder how many of the 2007 owners sat him for that game? I would have.
Kazmir was 2-3 with 5 no decisions (Rays lost 3 of 5) against the Yanks and RSox but he did have a very nice 2.66 ERA in 60+ innings.
Shields was not so fortunate with an 8.14 ERA n 20+ innings with an 0-3 record and a no decision which the Rays lost. On the Yanks, Shields had one game at NYY in which he gave up 10 ER. Take that one game out and you have a different story. I wonder how many of the 2007 owners sat him for that game? I would have.
Baseball is a slow, boring, complex, cerebral game that doesn't lend itself to histrionics. You 'take in' a baseball game, something odd to say about a football or basketball game, with the clock running and the bodies flying.
Charles Krauthammer
Charles Krauthammer
Which team got better?
Originally posted by Edwards Kings:
In the five games he pitched against BLT in 2007, I have Shields averaging a little more than 7 IP with a 3.612 ERA and a WHIP of 1.189, and a 3 to 1 K/BB ratio????
I had lower numbers for Kaz too in his five 2007 games against BLT, but they were still not so good (4.55 ERA, 1.65 WHIP) which is stange. you're right Wayne! I was looking at '06 #'s. Good pitching always seems to stop good hitting. Those two were pretty damn good in '07.
In the five games he pitched against BLT in 2007, I have Shields averaging a little more than 7 IP with a 3.612 ERA and a WHIP of 1.189, and a 3 to 1 K/BB ratio????
I had lower numbers for Kaz too in his five 2007 games against BLT, but they were still not so good (4.55 ERA, 1.65 WHIP) which is stange. you're right Wayne! I was looking at '06 #'s. Good pitching always seems to stop good hitting. Those two were pretty damn good in '07.