The Muts

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:13 am

It is painful to be a Mets fan. Not because they are a team with no talent, as they were for much of my youth in the 70's, and early 80's and then once again in the 90's. It is because they never seem to reach a level of stable decision making that seems to be the cornerstone of the best franchises.

True, the Mets needed a closer. But does a K Rod solve the bullpen problem? Not by a longshot. The bullpen suffers from lack of power arms, that was exacerbated by the Omar trades of Heath Bell, Lindstrom and Henry Owens 2-3 years ago, with nothing to show for them. KRod does not solve that problem.

Other then Johan and maybe Oeldrey, the Mets rotation is thin and will not pitch deep into games. SO even assuming KROd repeats (believe me I know all of the negative reports), how do you bridge the 6th, 7th and 8th?

With the market completely tepid for closers, I would have prioritized at least one starter and then maybe a filler back end guy like Garland, Looper. Then I wouldve let someone else pay quantum qwon to K ROd and signed Fuentes or Wood and supplemented that with a fireballer like Juan Cruz. Would you rather have Duaner Sanchez/KRod or Cruz/Fuentes in 8th and 9th?

Navel Lint · Post by **Navel Lint** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:16 am

Originally posted by Schwks:

It is painful to be a Mets fan. Not because they are a team with no talent, as they were for much of my youth in the 70's, and early 80's and then once again in the 90's. It is because they never seem to reach a level of stable decision making that seems to be the cornerstone of the best franchises.

True, the Mets needed a closer. But does a K Rod solve the bullpen problem? Not by a longshot. The bullpen suffers from lack of power arms, that was exacerbated by the Omar trades of Heath Bell, Lindstrom and Henry Owens 2-3 years ago, with nothing to show for them. KRod does not solve that problem.

Other then Johan and maybe Oeldrey, the Mets rotation is thin and will not pitch deep into games. SO even assuming KROd repeats (believe me I know all of the negative reports), how do you bridge the 6th, 7th and 8th?

With the market completely tepid for closers, I would have prioritized at least one starter and then maybe a filler back end guy like Garland, Looper. Then I wouldve let someone else pay quantum qwon to K ROd and signed Fuentes or Wood and supplemented that with a fireballer like Juan Cruz. Would you rather have Duaner Sanchez/KRod or Cruz/Fuentes in 8th and 9th? From ESPN this morning:

"All I kept on hearing in the streets of New York when you go get bagels in the morning was, 'Omar, please address the bullpen,'" Mets general manager Omar Minaya said. "Well, to all you Mets fans, we've addressed the bullpen."

New York shipped reliever Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez, lefty Jason Vargas and three minor leaguers to the Mariners for Putz, center fielder Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:09 am

It should be interesting to see how this trade plays out. Putz ( a great name for NY fans to mess with), has had his best years, while the Mets have misused Heilman the last few years. Seattle improves itself no matter what they do with Heilman, as Gutierrez and Chavez are outstanding defensively. It doesen't happen often for Seattle, but I like their end of the deal.

Fantasy-wise, little importance, other than they are closer-less in Seattle.

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:06 am

I guess the only argument is that Putz' stuff is also heading downhill, which is what Im reading on the blogs. That said, I guess if the Mets scouted him and know of his current health/stuff status, it is a good trade. It will be interesting to see if Heilman emerges as a decent starter...trying it out in the AL will make it tougher.

Im not icing the bubbly just yet.

BaseBrawler · Post by **BaseBrawler** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:52 pm

I have to be honest ... Im not a met fan but I dont think the mets are as bad as you think. There is alot of offense at 3b ss and cf. Delgado can still hit if castillo can stay healthy he has always been a 300 hitter. they need to upgrade lf and rf are there Pitching should be good, and if putz is heathly the mets just made it a 6 or 7 inning game. I do think they should go after abreu or burell(both?) and lowe. It would make sense for them to put another stick in the out field and another top starter. The mets are probably going to contend if not win the nl east. The braves and marlins arent going any where they just have to beat the phils. after that it gets tough....

[ December 23, 2008, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: TheFoot ]

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:42 am

Originally posted by Schwks:

It is painful to be a Mets fan. Not because they are a team with no talent, as they were for much of my youth in the 70's, and early 80's and then once again in the 90's. It is because they never seem to reach a level of stable decision making that seems to be the cornerstone of the best franchises.

True, the Mets needed a closer. But does a K Rod solve the bullpen problem? Not by a longshot. The bullpen suffers from lack of power arms, that was exacerbated by the Omar trades of Heath Bell, Lindstrom and Henry Owens 2-3 years ago, with nothing to show for them. KRod does not solve that problem.

Other then Johan and maybe Oeldrey, the Mets rotation is thin and will not pitch deep into games. SO even assuming KROd repeats (believe me I know all of the negative reports), how do you bridge the 6th, 7th and 8th?

With the market completely tepid for closers, I would have prioritized at least one starter and then maybe a filler back end guy like Garland, Looper. Then I wouldve let someone else pay quantum qwon to K ROd and signed Fuentes or Wood and supplemented that with a fireballer like Juan Cruz. Would you rather have Duaner Sanchez/KRod or Cruz/Fuentes in 8th and 9th? I agree the idiots running the Mets are terrible. They are not as bad as the Pirates front office as mentioned in the prior thread. Complaining about how bad they are is a bit niave I think though. Others have it much worse. The Pirates for one and may I again give referance to anybody out there that might be a Cubs fan. Ask any Cubs fan anywhere in the world. Who's had it worse since the mets came into existance the Cubs or the Mets? Anybody old enough, like myself, that remembers 1969 need not go any farther, though to go farther only makes it worse. Cub fans old enough to remember 1969 still have not gotten over that year above all others. They've hated the Mets ever since. Jealous maybe. Met fans in comparison have no complaints given you also had 1973 and 1987 for instance. What have Cub fans had? As old as my wife says I am I wasn't born in 1945. My father was born in 1908. Need less to say he lived his whole life not seeing a Cub championship. His being 8 months old at the time of their last does not count. I was born a Cub fan though he always cautioned me not to be optimistic. I got the cure in 1980. Rarely have I seen a worse team before or since then that 1980 team. Ownership transition. No money spent. GM with no power to affect changes and Joey Amalphitano leading the club on the field. Mike Vail and Greg Gross patrolling CF in a awful platoon. Yes CF neither was particularly qualified to play the corner OF spots. No wonder they couldn't get anybody out. No Met fan has any complaints over any Cub fan. It's not close.

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:46 am

I love it...great post...but I rememebr some very good cub teams with Grace, SAndberg, Durham etc. Also I think the management has done a great job as of late.

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:51 am

I thnk that what every team fan hopes for is that their basball team becomes the equivalent of the Patriots, a team with a plan for drafting, developing and winning with their own homegrown talent, supplemented by savy trades and FA pickups, that allow the team to remain good for many years...you cant always win WS, but to be right there. People in this space have mentioned the Braves and I agree that they have managed to stay at or near the top without ever being one of the real high spending franchises.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:10 am

Originally posted by Schwks:

I love it...great post...but I rememebr some very good cub teams with Grace, SAndberg, Durham etc. Also I think the management has done a great job as of late. Cub teams are generally based on "stars" that the fans like. Guys that put up #'s like Sosa. NOT winning type players. While I no longer live and die with the Cubs I do think they have decent management now. I like Hendry and Pinella. It hasn't gotten them a championship, but they still have a chance. We'll see what this year brings. I do have to say I never got why Toronto let Reed Johnson play so much, but after seeing him on a more regular basis I understand now. He is very un Cublike. The stats may not be there, but he plays to win and is totally fearless. BTW you've done a nice job this year picking up where some of us former frequent posters have left off. You posts are both interesting and intelligent. Keep up the good work. I voted the 5 stars.

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:52 am

Thanks Vander, I thought that my mom had somehow signed on in order to vote.

Mets fans and media have very similar complaints about both the recent Mets and Yankee teams. With guys like Beltran, Roger Cedeno, A Rod the Mets and Yanks give off very blase feel and a guy in the mold of Wally Backman, Pedroia, Paul O Neill, Scott Brosius who would rather cut off a hand then not get on first, are bandied about as protypes for success. How much of this is perception I am really not sure. FOr example, Delgado from 07 through July 08 when he caught fire, was routinely villified for the same conduct, yet few remember the 06 playoffs when the whole team stopped hitting except him, and he carried that team with tough at bat after at bat.

The answer as always probably lies somewhere in the middle...you need the pure number guys to get you to postseason and win meaningless games in June and July. Then in the playoffs you need the guts and will to win.

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:24 am

Speaking of former frequent posters, where's Gekko? I was just starting to figure out when he was misinforming and when he had something of real value. If nothing else he was creative and kept the boards going. Controversial is good for starting conversation and you could always count on him being controversial.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 12:03 pm

Originally posted by Vander:

Speaking of former frequent posters, where's Gekko? I was just starting to figure out when he was misinforming and when he had something of real value. If nothing else he was creative and kept the boards going. Controversial is good for starting conversation and you could always count on him being controversial. Vander, Gekk's now a WCOFF man. He's putting all his energies onto the boards there. As per Mark he has disabled his Gordon Gekko handle here and is taking this year off of the NFBC.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:58 pm

Originally posted by Vander:

Speaking of former frequent posters, where's Gekko? I was just starting to figure out when he was misinforming and when he had something of real value. If nothing else he was creative and kept the boards going. Controversial is good for starting conversation and you could always count on him being controversial. Yes, while we appreciate all of the posting Mark has done in the past and the competitive juices he brought to the NFBC in the past, he's made it known that he is no longer interested in posting on our boards or competing in our events. I do not know what turned Mark off to our events, but he's decided to lead another charge and be the dominant force on another board and we wish him best of luck. He has finished in the Top 10 overall in the NFBC the last two years, but he's made it known that he's going to take this upcoming baseball season off.

I've always enjoyed Mark's presence in our events and his friendship. He's a smart guy and an INTENSE competitor, maybe too intense. He's made a lot of friends through the NFBC and NFFC, he's won a lot of money with us, he's sealed his reputation as one of the top gamers in the industry and I have a feeling he will capitalize on that down the road. Again, good luck to him and he's a friend I'll miss in our events going forward.

That being said, our boards are going to be better than ever this year because Tom and I are going to lead the charge. We are going to write more than ever before through our partnership with Rotoworld.com and those columns will also be posted on our NFBC boards to lead worthy discussions. We will post some of the best responses on Rotoworld.com and do our best to inform both groups about what top players are saying about those topics. I want as much discussion before Draft Day as possible.

The Message Boards are still your playground, but I'm going to be more assertive this year on the NFBC and NFFC boards to make sure our direction is in the right place. Our NFFC boards became dominated by too few people this past year and it hurt those boards. Our goal is to lead the discussions concentrating on baseball and try to limit the number of smack-talk posts we've had in the past. While some appreciated GG's bravado in the past, I do know that some folks wanted us to curtail that and to keep the messages less personal.

In the end, our contests are only as good as our participants and I have no doubt that 2009's competing class will be the best we've ever had. Good luck all and get ready for plenty of baseball talk starting right after the New Year (when our first baseball issue finally goes to press). See ya then.

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Fri Dec 26, 2008 2:32 pm

Greg, This is my first year here, but I think the quality both in style and substance, is really quite good. I am amazed at how many truly bright people waste their time along with me.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:23 am

I'm looking forward to you and Tom posting more and being a bigger piece of the Message Boards, Greg.

I agree with the smack talk and getting personal stuff. I've heard about it going on in the NFFC (I don't play).

While entertaining for others to see, much like a boxing match, it stifles what others want to contribute for fear of being the next one to get "beat up".

Maybe it's baseball and the day-to-day grind, but it doesen't seem to happen often in baseball. The posters in the NFFC have six days to kill and I'll bet that even some of the smaller slights are magnified.

Anyways, it'll be great to have you, Tom, and guests contributing and answering questions for us.

I'll be the first to make a request. Can you get Jason Grey for an hour?

[ December 31, 2008, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:19 am

Very insightful dough. Your additions are a big plus here too. Thanks for putting out the time and effort.

Q

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:03 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

I'm looking forward to you and Tom posting more and being a bigger piece of the Message Boards, Greg.

I agree with the smack talk and getting personal stuff. I've heard about it going on in the NFFC (I don't play).

While entertaining for others to see, much like a boxing match, it stifles what others want to contribute for fear of being the next one to get "beat up".

Maybe it's baseball and the day-to-day grind, but it doesen't seem to happen often in baseball. The posters in the NFFC have six days to kill and I'll bet that even some of the smaller slights are magnified.

Anyways, it'll be great to have you, Tom, and guests contributing and answering questions for us.

I'll be the first to make a request. Can you get Jason Grey for an hour? Thanks Dan. You hit it on the head on all above. Football has too much down time and there are too many ways a person can lose with "bad luck" involved. Everyone has a reason or an excuse for losing to someone else and the reasons are magnified for six days a week until the personal feuds flare up continuously. I love our NFFC event, but I'll just say that right now I am so glad that event is done and baseball is starting again. The NFBC boards are a complete 180 from the NFFC boards and the cream of the crop will always rise to the top here without any excuses from others.

Tom and I will be extremely aggressive and I'll reach out to Jason Grey shortly to talk about rookies. He's a busy, busy man, but he loves our NFBC group and I'm sure he will try to fit us in for a live chat. He's already signed up for the AL Auction League in Las Vegas and will auctioneer and facilitate for us again out there. He's the best.

Stay tuned. We're going to get busy here next week once our baseball magazine goes to press. We're just tweaking the rankings now and proofing 100+ pages of reviews now. Fun, fun.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:14 pm

Jason who?

I may be biased, but Greg is right, Jas is the best out there at what he does.

[ December 31, 2008, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: ToddZ ]