Javier Vazquez For Melky Cabrera??

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:35 am

Thank goodness we don't allow trades in the NFBC. Can you imagine someone making this trade offer and saying "well, that's all the Yankees gave up to the Braves. C'mon, approve this one." Sheesh.

This is the part I hate about Major League Baseball. The Red Sox sign John Lackey, so the Yankees have to go out and take on a bigger contract and get one step better. It never ends. The Yankees just paid $27+ million in luxury tax for this season, but who cares when they can win a World Series title from it? They've paid almost 90 percent of the entire luxury tax paid out to smaller market teams, but who cares, right?

Okay, if you were a fantasy league commissioner, would you approve this trade? If not, then why should Bud Selig approve it?? Help me understand the mess that is called Major League Baseball after this trade.

PW Express · Post by **PW Express** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:40 am

Greg, one can also ask, why in the world would the Braves make the deal? Are they that hard up for cash? Everything I read said they were trying to move Lowe (which would have been the way smarter move) for a bat. The best bat they could come up with was Melky?? Also, considering Jason friggin Marquis just got 15 million for two years from the Nats, Vazquez's contract sure seems reasonable to me.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:50 am

I am an Atlanta guy and a Braves fan. My former nfbc partner knows Frank Wren a little bit. I had to call him to somehow make sure he knew what a terrible trade this was. It felt better!

Is there a better trade piece than a number one type starter who has no long term liability tied to him? So all you get is a solid young prospect and an overpaid 4th outfielder?

Someone please explain why Seattle was willing to give up solid prospects for Cliff Lee and this is all he can get.

Terrible just terrible!

PW Express · Post by **PW Express** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:53 am

As a die hard Yankee fan I love the deal. I couldnt agree more with your assessment. If it was for Derek Lowe (whom I would not have wanted anyway) I could almost say it was a decent deal, but for Vazquez, it was highway robbery.

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:42 am

disgusting. but this is what happens when corporate entities own franchises and a piece of sh*t is your commish.

as a braves fan, i would be happier if they just cut the #5 OF that cabrera is and admit it was nothing but a salary dump.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:08 am

It seems like ATL could have rec'd a better deal if they dealt him to a NL team - but why make your competition better. So ATL moves him to the AL where he's a 4.75 era pitcher who spit the bit in the playoffs the only year the Yanks had him. I'm not sure what compelled ATL to move him at all but 1 minor lgr they got back looks lively.

Hardly a slam dunk in my eyes when you bring back his 5 era in the bronx in '04 and his 4.7's in chitown. No more WAS/NYM/FLA/pit/hou/sd/sf/az on Javys docket anymore is there ?

PW Express · Post by **PW Express** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:18 am

Steve, I know all about his flop last night but the guy is solid, a bulldog, great control and a helluva nice number three starter. They gave up nothing to get him, in my humble opinion, a total slam dunk. Id rather be on the hook for 11.5 for Javy then pay 8-10 for Sheets or 7-8 for a Marquis/Piniero type. It was another shrewd move by Cashman.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:31 am

I agree, Q. Vazquez value and peripherals takes a hit, albeit with a couple of more wins. Vazquez will have more value for the Yankees than he will on your fantasy team.

As for Cashman being shrewd, it's like calling someone shrewd in Monopoly when they own Park Place and Boardwalk.

The Yankees are making good moves, but with a seemingly unending budget, it is easy to look smart. They still need an outfielder or two.

Any thoughts on who that may be?

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:33 am

In Fantasy, it would never fly. Now the Braves have accomplished three things:

1) Salary dump of Vazquez telling every free-agent out there that the Braves are too cheap to contend with the raise Vazquez would have gotten over the $11.5m he earns this year. With this rep, the Braves will attract quality FAs the same way I have steak and sxx...very rare.

2) They got Melky, a back end of the line-up hitter to clog the OF, but did free up about $10.0m to try to attract a quality FA hitter. See above.

3) Hacked off Derek Lowe, now the de facto #1 (Hanson accepted) of the staff who was quoted recently asking why they were trying so hard to trade him and complaining no one pressed a gun to the Braves executives heads to sign him to a three year $45m annual deal last year.

If the Braves get a big stick for one year using the freed up money, I guess I will be ok. But for now it stinks. Vazquez will not like that ball park, however.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:35 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

They still need an outfielder or two.

Any thoughts on who that may be? It is the Yanks. The will end up with both Bay and Holliday!

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:35 am

Originally posted by PW Express:

Steve, I know all about his flop last night but the guy is solid, a bulldog, great control and a helluva nice number three starter. They gave up nothing to get him, in my humble opinion, a total slam dunk. Id rather be on the hook for 11.5 for Javy then pay 8-10 for Sheets or 7-8 for a Marquis/Piniero type. It was another shrewd move by Cashman. 6 years ago in a bigger park he dumped a 5 era on the yanks plus a 9 era and 2.56 WHIP in the LCS. The Yanks REAL season starts in OCT. I don't think I'd trust him to warm up the bullpen catcher in October. Maybe Cash isnt done and he'll flip him. Then they can work on finding someone who can stomach the bronx.

PW Express · Post by **PW Express** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:35 am

Dan, Id be happy with DeRosa because he can play so many positions. I also think we still might see a Damon signing for say 2 years at $20 million (that would be my first preference). As for being shrewd, the GM's going after the likes of Doug Davis, Joel Piniero, Jason Marquis, etc could have certainly looked up the Braves to see what it would take to get Vazquez.

PW Express · Post by **PW Express** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:39 am

I guess I shouldnt draft him is what you are trying to tell me :--))

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:47 am

Originally posted by PW Express:

I guess I shouldnt draft him is what you are trying to tell me :--)) It always depends WHERE. I wouldn't say don't draft him, I just wouldn't draft him near as high as I would have yesterday.

If it weren't for Boras, I couldn't help but think that Damon would already be signed by the Yankees. He is a dynamite agent for some, cumbersome for others.

ToddZ · Post by **ToddZ** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:56 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Okay, if you were a fantasy league commissioner, would you approve this trade? If not, then why should Bud Selig approve it?? Help me understand the mess that is called Major League Baseball after this trade. What if the league were a keeper league with an in-season salary cap and the deal was made mid-season with the team dealing Vazquez having an excess of pitching and in need of an outfielder or two? Let's say Vazquez roto salary was $30 and they owner was at $320 towards an in-season cap of $325 and free agent outfielders cost $10 so picking 2 up would put you over the cap.

Deal Javy, pick up Melky. Let's say that gets you to $305 giving Cabrera a $15 salary. You pick up another outfielder off waivers for $10 (let's call him Marlon Byrd) and activate a $10 Kawakami from your reserve. You are now at the cap, have your 2 necessary outfielders and backfill Vazquez with Kawakami.

This may sound confusing, but is a better way to consider the deal -- this of course assumes Atlanta does something with the saved salary from Vazquez.

If not...

Never mind.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:04 am

Originally posted by ToddZ:

quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Okay, if you were a fantasy league commissioner, would you approve this trade? If not, then why should Bud Selig approve it?? Help me understand the mess that is called Major League Baseball after this trade. What if the league were a keeper league with an in-season salary cap and the deal was made mid-season with the team dealing Vazquez having an excess of pitching and in need of an outfielder or two? Let's say Vazquez roto salary was $30 and they owner was at $320 towards an in-season cap of $325 and free agent outfielders cost $10 so picking 2 up would put you over the cap.

Deal Javy, pick up Melky. Let's say that gets you to $305 giving Cabrera a $15 salary. You pick up another outfielder off waivers for $10 (let's call him Marlon Byrd) and activate a $10 Kawakami from your reserve. You are now at the cap, have your 2 necessary outfielders and backfill Vazquez with Kawakami.

This may sound confusing, but is a better way to consider the deal -- this of course assumes Atlanta does something with the saved salary from Vazquez.

If not...

Never mind. [/QUOTE]Thank God for no trade leagues.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:23 am

Originally posted by PW Express:

As for being shrewd, the GM's going after the likes of Doug Davis, Joel Piniero, Jason Marquis, etc could have certainly looked up the Braves to see what it would take to get Vazquez. They could have. But 11 million to these clubs is blowing their whole wad. PLUS they have to give up prospects, gold for the low budget teams, after thoughts for the Yankees.

No, Vazquez would only be available for a select few teams.

Davis, Pineiro, and Marquis are all fools gold and will be signed by below average GM's. These GM's have fooled themselves into thinking that a veteran with a 4.50 ERA and eight million dollar salary is better than a kid who goes over 5.00, but cost little.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:23 am

Todd has the analysis correct unfortunately it still fails the test of being even close to a good trade.

Keep in mind Vazquez had a no trade to the west coast. This meant his options were limited. I still think he could have gotten so much more for him. I also find it hard to believe if they ate some contract or took a decently bad contract back that Lowe could have been traded.

The points on Vazquez and NYC are valid. I just need one guy at my draft table to look at those numbers and say Vazquez with those 2009 numbers is still here in round 7- how can I be so lucky?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:46 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:

Maybe Cash isnt done and he'll flip him. Then they can work on finding someone who can stomach the bronx. A good rumor would be the Cubs trading Zambrano for Vazquez. Although the problem could be on the other foot in how the Bronx could stomach Zambrano.

The Phillies have already traded a better option in Lee. The Mets are still pretending they have a lot of money. The Red Sox haven't made a trade with the Yankees in 13 years.

Not many options for Cashman if this is a thought.

PW Express · Post by **PW Express** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:50 am

in my humble opinion there is no chance that Vazquez will be flipped. He is coming off a monster season, will give the Yankees 200 innings and a minimum of 14-15 wins. As for the post season, they can always go with a three man rotation for those who say he wont have the stomach for the post season the second time around.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:57 am

Originally posted by PW Express:

in my humble opinion there is no chance that Vazquez will be flipped. He is coming off a monster season, will give the Yankees 200 innings and a minimum of 14-15 wins. As for the post season, they can always go with a three man rotation for those who say he wont have the stomach for the post season the second time around. Agreed.

Except for the three man rotation part. You are assuming that Burnett is putting up a like season and that Pettitte stays healthy through another year. Risky business.

ESPN8 THE OCHO · Post by **ESPN8 THE OCHO** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:13 pm

C'mon guys you are better than this.

First Javy Lopez was an all-star for the Yanks the first time around. He struggled in the second half with an injury.

Second Lopez has pitched at least 198 innings and won double digit games each of the last 10 seasons. Striking out 200+ 5 times. He is a pitching talent

Third and this was mentioned. With the like of Wolf, Marquis, Piniero, Sheets, etc getting 7+ mil each I will take Vazquez everyday of the week for 11.5

Fourth where is the rest of the league? IT is a shrewd move because they got the deal done. I mean Pie and Arrieta from Baltimore couldn't get that done. I would much rather have Vazquez then Millwood.

When push comes to shove the Yanks get a quality 200 IP with double digit wins and someone who might be able to make a quality start if they use 4 starters in the playoffs... or someone who may move into a #2 role behins CC if pitching well. His move back to the AL, and the small Yankee park won't help his era or whip but the Yanks are not running a fantasy team and this move is a slam dunk because JAvy will carry lots of real life value.

Again where was everyone else in the league regarding Vazquez?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:27 pm

A little misleading. He was an all star with the Yankees which is to say he had a good first half with them. He was lit up in the second half and ended up with an E.R.A. close to 5.

He has pitched in the A.L. four years, his E.R.A. was over 4, three of those years.

On his side, he is older and wiser and may be able to handle the Bronx now.

Asking where the other teams are is futile. If I have a high priced pitcher that I want to trade to another league, without being the west coast, the first calls are going to be to the Yankees and Red Sox.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:28 pm

Thanks for the Javy Lopez reference.

ESPN8 THE OCHO · Post by **ESPN8 THE OCHO** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:52 pm