Overstuffed Pigs_on_Draft_Day

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:33 pm

none taken gg. i knew that when i posted and i know how well you guys did last year. one thing i will say is- no one has a perfect draft. if papi gets hurt- mistake. if all the other guys with injury concerns get hurt- mistake. ugla hitting with bad b.a- i know dan is a ba guy- very succesfull for him. sometimes ya gotta zig when others zag- hope you 2 went over and explained this to shawn on bay and andrew jones. both of them aren't lighting it up in the batting average category. both of them or so i hear- have bad knees and backs and shoulders and oh ya- they play the field- so ya go over to where shawn posted his team and explain that to him. or that cole hammels is an injury risk along with beckett and he shouldn't have built his staff around those 2 injury risks last year.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:41 pm

I believe childs likes to pick past "stars" that have fallen off the radar, bay, jones, patterson, harden, bonderman, etc...all qualify.

Personally I like the harden gamble and the patterson gamble (if the round wasn't too early).

Bay is what he is. A former star who had knee surgery that zapped his speed and may have had an affect on his overall performance.

Bomderman is a tough one to read. He sure sounded "injured" at the end of the year. Good luck with that one I guess.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:44 pm

Originally posted by freddiezee:

I disagree with Ortiz......I think he finishes the year as one of the top 15 hitters, so it is worth filling the UT spot early for him. That's exactly the line of thinking I LOVE my competitors to have!

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:46 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

FWIW...I like Zambrano this season.

No worries. Gloom and doom. He's one of the few durable elite and proven starters in baseball.

Five straight seasons of 31+ starts.

Career 3.41 ERA 1.29 WHIP, close to 16 wins a year, and damn near a K per IP.

Steady Eddie!

(...and he looks to be plenty focused for 2008)

...and oh, yes...BORN in 1981...gimme a break on washed up talk or heavy load.

People must be buying into Shandlers doom forecast.

He's predicting a career worst year based on a poor first half of 2007??? Keep crunching those numbers and not watching the players play. Wouldn't a worn down arm be reflected in a poor 2nd half vs. first half?

~Lance Lance - your a few steps behind. Career numbers don't mean anything. It's "what have u done lately". Lately zman has been a bun as a frontline starter. Old man smoltz is better than him. I'd even take maine and gallardo over zman. Zman is the "sucker's bet" in vegas. Book it. [/QUOTE]If you value durable...Z is your man.

If you value K's...Z is your man.

If you value Wins...Z is your man.

If you value proven/consistant/low risk...Z is your man.

What have you done for me lately was clearly posted by KJ Duke...May-thru-Sept 2007...

3.35-1.26, .209 BA against, 7.7 K-rate.

Those numbers surely will not be "killing staffs" or be "sucker's bet" material...unless you guys invent numbers out of thin air?

It's not like he was selected in the first few rounds...we're talking round 7 for LV3...after most all the other "safe bets" were gone.

~Lance

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:48 pm

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Don't kid yourself into thinking you know it all just yet...even if Dan and Childs both agreed with you.

Who said I know everything? I certainly don't and next year I'm going to try to improve on some of my misses in prep from this year. And yes, I already missed on some prep work. The good thing is I've identified it. The bad thing is I need to wait until next year to implement it.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:51 pm

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

If you value durable...Z is your man.

If you value K's...Z is your man.

If you value Wins...Z is your man.

If you value proven/consistant/low risk...Z is your man.

What have you done for me lately was clearly posted by KJ Duke...May-thru-Sept 2007...

3.35-1.26, .209 BA against, 7.7 K-rate.

Those numbers surely will not be "killing staffs" or be "sucker's bet" material...unless you guys invent numbers out of thin air?

It's not like he was selected in the first few rounds...we're talking round 7 for LV3...after most all the other "safe bets" were gone.

~Lance Just curious...how many of the top teams from last year had zman as their ace?

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:55 pm

Shawn and I talked about his team for 15 minutes Saturday after the draft. I had a sense of two things.

I think Shawn was not happy with the way that the overall draft progressed as far as his strategies were concerned and he went to a plan that didn't fit into his usual criteria.

The second sense was the determination in his voice in how he was going to make everything work. He'll be riding the faab hard and use relievers for starters in April, but as everyone knows Shawn will find a way to make that squad very competitive.

True it isn't a team I would draft, hell, if Shawn steps back and takes a look at it, it probably doesen't resemble anything he foresaw Saturday morning.

But Shawn is Shawn, he has enough great players to carry him for periods of time and I'm betting he'll find others to do the same.

Think of it as his way of equaling the playing field for the rest of us.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:56 pm

MAN O MAN...this is gonna be a fun year...I can feel it!

I get butterflies when I think about it.

Must stay focused once football begins. Was that a hindrance last season for you at all?

Hard to juggle two beloved sports.

~Lance

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:57 pm

Lance - have u posted your team? Which thread?

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:01 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Lance - have u posted your team? Which thread? No...I'm not too proud of it.

It will be a grind.

I just looked hard at my league today...and I have my hands full just to compete.

But I'll give all my attention and effort...that I promise.

~Lance

Andy Tu La Daddy · Post by **Andy Tu La Daddy** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:02 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

If you value durable...Z is your man.

If you value K's...Z is your man.

If you value Wins...Z is your man.

If you value proven/consistant/low risk...Z is your man.

What have you done for me lately was clearly posted by KJ Duke...May-thru-Sept 2007...

3.35-1.26, .209 BA against, 7.7 K-rate.

Those numbers surely will not be "killing staffs" or be "sucker's bet" material...unless you guys invent numbers out of thin air?

It's not like he was selected in the first few rounds...we're talking round 7 for LV3...after most all the other "safe bets" were gone.

~Lance Just curious...how many of the top teams from last year had zman as their ace? [/QUOTE]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:04 pm

Lance!!!!!!! You said this year would be different!!! Post it, I'm sure it's not that bad!

Andy Tu La Daddy · Post by **Andy Tu La Daddy** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:06 pm

Gekko,

New Season, New Stats.

Zambrano's full season 07 stats are irrelevant as we are discussing his likely dominance of 08.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:09 pm

Originally posted by Andy Tu La Daddy:

Gekko,

New Season, New Stats.

Zambrano's full season 07 stats are irrelevant as we are discussing his likely dominance of 08. Agreed. Btw, have you looked into the historic impact a rookie catcher has on a pitcher's era?

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:12 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Lance!!!!!!! You said this year would be different!!! Post it, I'm sure it's not that bad! Rip away!

C: Salty

C: Navarro

1B: Loney

3B: A. Gordon

CI: J. Fields

2B: Cano

SS: Rollins

MI: K. Johnson

OF: Granderson

OF: M. Ordonez

OF: J. Ellsbury

OF: K. Griffey Jr.

OF: J. Cust

UTI: Ethier/M. Alou

P: Kazmir

P: Smoltz

P: Buchholz

P: Harden

P: W. Rodriguez

P: M. Owings

P: K. Millwood/Jurrjens/Prior

P: M. Rivera

P: K. Gregg

It's a start!!!

~Lance

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:13 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Andy Tu La Daddy:

Gekko,

New Season, New Stats.

Zambrano's full season 07 stats are irrelevant as we are discussing his likely dominance of 08. Agreed. Btw, have you looked into the historic impact a rookie catcher has on a pitcher's era? [/QUOTE]Have you!!? I can think of plenty of rookie catchers that have handled veteran pitching staffs with aplomb.

I understand the reservations some have with Z, me included. But dude is a horse and will produce quality numbers. Time will tell I suppose.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:17 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

If you value durable...Z is your man.

If you value K's...Z is your man.

If you value Wins...Z is your man.

If you value proven/consistant/low risk...Z is your man.

What have you done for me lately was clearly posted by KJ Duke...May-thru-Sept 2007...

3.35-1.26, .209 BA against, 7.7 K-rate.

Those numbers surely will not be "killing staffs" or be "sucker's bet" material...unless you guys invent numbers out of thin air?

It's not like he was selected in the first few rounds...we're talking round 7 for LV3...after most all the other "safe bets" were gone.

~Lance Just curious...how many of the top teams from last year had zman as their ace? [/QUOTE]Probably more than had Peavy 2 yrs ago when his numbers were much, much worse than Z's last season. But he bounced back pretty well and is now going proudly in round 2 which to me is the far overstuffed pick than Z 5 rounds later.

[ March 18, 2008, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:20 pm

Lance - looks okay to me. Why ar u so bummed? U need ellsbury to get the PT though. I wouldn't take kaz, but overall a nice staff.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:33 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Lance - looks okay to me. Why ar u so bummed? U need ellsbury to get the PT though. I wouldn't take kaz, but overall a nice staff. I had to adjust on the fly much more than I imagined I'd have to.

I had so many picks fall a spot or two before my turn. (nothing new, I know...but it hurt.)

My cheatsheet was too short.

I learned a lot from this draft, and will be better prepared for 2009. (I had too much unneeded stuff in front of me.) I could have used a magazine for the end...I just failed to plan a deep enough list.

I have too many injury/age risks, and a few too many potential AAA/split timers.

~Lance

Hard Heads · Post by **Hard Heads** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:36 pm

Originally posted by Andy Tu La Daddy:

I disagree on your Zambrano read.

We all know that he is a head case and the contract negotations last year could not have helped.

He might actually be "relaxed" this year. He has been incredibly focused this spring and has been dominant (not that we can read too much in to spring stats).

Time will tell but he has a great lineup behind him and a solid bullpen. Tend to agree with this and the fact he no longer has one of the worst catchers at handling pitchers in the game gone. Although, it remains to be seen what Soto can do in a full season.

billywaz · Post by **billywaz** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:40 pm

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Lance - looks okay to me. Why ar u so bummed? U need ellsbury to get the PT though. I wouldn't take kaz, but overall a nice staff. I had to adjust on the fly much more than I imagined I'd have to.

I had so many picks fall a spot or two before my turn. (nothing new, I know...but it hurt.)

My cheatsheet was too short.

I learned a lot from this draft, and will be better prepared for 2009. (I had too much unneeded stuff in front of me.) I could have used a magazine for the end...I just failed to plan a deep enough list.

I have too many injury/age risks, and a few too many potential AAA/split timers.

~Lance [/QUOTE]Lance,

I also don't think it is that bad.

My biggest concern would be your pitching staff. When Bucholz, Harden, and Wandy are 3-4-5, that could be a problem (especially with a nicked up Kazmir).

If you work the wire, you definitely could be in the hunt. Any injuries though, and it looks like you might be doing some early football prep!

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 1:54 pm

dear gordon g. i only had 3 things as pluses for z in my last post. remember- i am not biased- he is a cub. 1) he has a catcher- FORGET the historical raz ma taz- barrett has the iq of your desk 4) i forgot this one- he has a bullpen- gordon- you go look at the historical significance of ryan dempster as your closer.howry in the 8th was awfull till july. marmol in the 8th and wood in the 9th. carlos will by pass howry entirely. the outfield the last 2 years featured the likes if cliff floyd, jaque jones and juan pierre. those guys are not real outfielders. pie can play center field. supposedly the japanese guy can play right. soriano- well 2 for 3. those things are outside the stat line.

TheKing · Post by **TheKing** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:13 pm

Re: Big Z

I've never seen GG so thoroughly disproved on these boards.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:17 pm

Originally posted by TheKing:

Re: Big Z

I've never seen GG so thoroughly disproved on these boards. Your head must be in the spin zone. Learn to think for yourself. Thanks!

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:32 pm

Can't WAIT for opening Z day!

In less than 2 weeks, Zambrano v Sheets at Wrigley. Should be about 38 degrees outside.

I see Z tossing a 2-hitter over 6, while its 50/50 Sheets' brittle arm ices up and falls off.