Dub vs. Spyhunter

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:19 am

We have a side bet in March 9th $250. You be the judge. Personally I think my pitching is slightly worse, but my hitting is much better. What does everyone else think?

My Team:

Starters Pos

Yadier Molina C -

Ivan Rodriguez C -

Todd Helton 1B -

Brandon Phillips 2B -

Chipper Jones 3B -

Jhonny Peralta SS - (Or Theriot)

Travis Buck OF - (or Bonds?)

Pat Burrell OF -

Carl Crawford OF -

Jack Cust OF -

Adam Dunn OF -

Kelly Johnson MI -

Daric Barton CI - (or Crede)

Jim Thome UTL -

Bench

Barry Bonds B -

Joe Crede B -

Ian Stewart B -

Ryan Theriot B

Starters

Matt Cain P 0.0 - -

Kevin Gregg P 0.0 - -

Dan Haren P 0.0 - -

Barry Zito P 0.0 - -

Chuck James P 0.0 - -

Ubaldo Jimenez P 0.0 - -

Shaun Marcum P 0.0 - -

Andrew Miller P 0.0 - -

Jonathan Papelbon P 0.0 - -

Totals 0.0 - -

Bench

Miguel Batista B 0.0 - -

Edwin Jackson B 0.0 - -

C.J. Wilson B 0.0 - -

DUB's TEAM:

Hitters

Starters

Russell Martin C -

Carlos Ruiz C -

Ryan Garko 1B -

Aaron Hill 2B -

Ryan Braun 3B -

Troy Tulowitzki SS -

Jonny Gomes OF -

Josh Hamilton OF -

Adam Jones OF -

Mark Teahen OF -

Shane Victorino OF -

Felipe Lopez MI -

Alex Gordon CI -

Rajai Davis UTL -

Bench

Brian Giles B -

Alex Gonzalez B -

Mike Lamb B -

Steve Pearce B -

Pitchers

Starters

Chris Young P 0.0 - -

Joe Blanton P 0.0 - -

Pedro Martinez P 0.0 - -

John Patterson P 0.0 - -

Mike Pelfrey P 0.0 - -

B.J. Ryan P 0.0 - -

Joakim Soria P 0.0 - -

Justin Verlander P 0.0 - -

Kerry Wood P 0.0 - -

Bench

Masa Kobayashi B 0.0 - -

Joel Pineiro B 0.0 - -

Jason Schmidt B 0.0 - -

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:40 am

On the face of it, I think your opponent has the better team. But that's why they play the games.

I think his offense is a bit more balanced and his pitching looks a bit better.

Good luck.

rockitsauce · Post by **rockitsauce** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:49 am

i like yer team spy, he might have a slight edge in starting pitching, but i'd rather have yer ace (haren) over his verlander/young. also yer closers led by pap obviously better. if no injuries you should easily win the bet.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:26 pm

Toss up but I think both teams should finish top 5 in most leagues.

Hobo Zeke · Post by **Hobo Zeke** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:50 pm

Dub's team looks better. Why? Because I am looking to pick up 25 out of his 30 in the Main, Saturday.

TheKing · Post by **TheKing** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:16 pm

I'd rather have Dub's team.

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:28 pm

dang, down 1-3 with 1 tie. Personally, I think his offense if full of sooo many question marks (how many can't miss prospect miss??), but sounds like I am in the minority

baggler · Post by **baggler** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:42 pm

Spy make it 2-3-1. The only problem I see is the back end of your sp's , other than that you have nice power and you can address the speed isssue by inserting Theriot and fa pickup if need be.

Your pitching will be average and that's where Dub has an advantage.

But offensively I see Dub having a problem with power and power equals hr's rbi's and runs.

I'd take your team Spy

It will be a tight race if Dub is able to maintain a higher average than you and gets some unforseen power.

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:01 pm

UPDATE: Dub wants to only compete on one area, my choice, so I chose Hitting. So the bet is who gets most offensive points.

Baggler, I totally agree

Here is his quote from the league page:

"Spyhunter/ Dub Comparisons Posted By: Club Dub

catching match up- not even close- Big Check Dub

1B- Helton on way down, Garko on way up- Edge even

Philips Vs Hill- Edge Spy (but not as much as you think)

Braun vs Jones (injury risk)- Braun will win all five categories

Perlta (proven) vs Tulo- Big edge Dub

Are we seeing a pattern yet?

Alex Gordon/FLopez vs Kelly Johnson (proven)/Daric Barton (Proven)- Again this is not even close

OF vs OF- Big edge Dub. (It would not surprise me if Victorino even matches the "proven" Carl Crawford, most overrated FBB.)

I actually feel bad taking your money. you gonna need a miracle. "

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:10 pm

Spyhunter has better power numbers although Dub has a more well rounded offense. I definitely see more power out of Spyhunter but a struggle in BA and stolen bases.

As far as pitching, Spyhunter might very well have a good e.r.a./whip but wins and strikeouts will be a big problem.

I think Dub's pitching is 4 solid starters deep and possibly 5 if Patterson gets his velocity back. Spy has Papelbon but Gregg is no guarantee. Dub has Soria and Ryan (who might lose a few saves to Accordo as they will be careful with him) Probable edge to Spyhunter in saves but farely close.

I think Dub clearly has the better team.

Spyhunter, I can't say that team won't be a top 5 but it's just real tough starting the year with only a couple solid starters and a bunch of question marks. Just my two cents.

I think you should be real competitive in homers and someone was right when they said if you put in Theriot you're stolen bases will be ok.

Advantage: Dub

Good luck to both.

I love side bets

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:13 pm

oops, didn't see last post.

So, it's based on offense.

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:23 pm

Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

oops, didn't see last post.

So, it's based on offense. Do you change your vote then?

Dub · Post by **Dub** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:34 pm

Originally posted by Spyhunter:

quote:Originally posted by Crazy Like a Fox:

oops, didn't see last post.

So, it's based on offense. Do you change your vote then? [/QUOTE]I gave him him his choice because I will win both. But we already have money on overall prize. I see no reason to add on to something we bet on already?

Any votes for Spy's team are clearly family members.

What does Spy think he does not have unproven Q's on offense?

Daric Bartin

Yadir Molina

travis Buck

kelly Johnson

jack Cust

Johnny Peralta

[ March 12, 2008, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: Dub ]

Less than Dave · Post by **Less than Dave** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:34 pm

Dub's better and has the better offense as well. You have tons of power but lack steals.. average may be an issue as well. Dub might have problems with saves.. neither staff is overly strong. Both pretty good teams overall though.

Dub · Post by **Dub** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:40 pm

Originally posted by Spyhunter:

UPDATE: Dub wants to only compete on one area, my choice, so I chose Hitting. So the bet is who gets most offensive points.

Baggler, I totally agree

Here is his quote from the league page:

quote: "Spyhunter/ Dub Comparisons Posted By: Club Dub

catching match up- not even close- Big Check Dub

1B- Helton on way down, Garko on way up- Edge even

Philips Vs Hill- Edge Spy (but not as much as you think)

Braun vs Jones (injury risk)- Braun will win all five categories

Perlta (proven) vs Tulo- Big edge Dub

Are we seeing a pattern yet?

Alex Gordon/FLopez vs Kelly Johnson (proven)/Daric Barton (Proven)- Again this is not even close

OF vs OF- Big edge Dub. (It would not surprise me if Victorino even matches the "proven" Carl Crawford, most overrated FBB.)

I actually feel bad taking your money. you gonna need a miracle. " [/QUOTE]This part of the quote was left out for the record:

Now for the pitching

Verlander vs Haren- 4 category win for Verlander

Cain vs Young- Big edge Young

Martinez- Marcum. In which bizarro world could you even compare these two? Martinez is actual the best pitcher of ALL the pitchers on BOTH of our teams.

Blanton vs Zito- who would you rather have?

Papelbon/ Gregg and Wison vs Soria/ Ryan /Wood- big Edge Spy only in saves category?

Then a host of spec picks Miller/Ubaldo/james vs Scmidt/Patterson/ Pelfrey/Pinaro- You want that one- you can have that edge-LOL

I actually feel bad taking your money. you gonna need a miracle.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:02 pm

Advantage Dub.

Offense from top to bottom looks much better.

Spy has advantage in homers, Dub takes possibly other 4 cats in offense.

rockitsauce · Post by **rockitsauce** » Wed Mar 12, 2008 8:15 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dub:

Martinez- Marcum. In which bizarro world could you even compare these two? Martinez is actual the best pitcher of ALL the pitchers on BOTH of our teams.

let me get this straight...pedro is better than haren, verlander, young, cain, etc. uh...hate to break it to ya dubinski, but it's 2008, not 1998, good luck w/ that!

Dub · Post by **Dub** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:53 am

Originally posted by rockitsauce:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dub:

Martinez- Marcum. In which bizarro world could you even compare these two? Martinez is actual the best pitcher of ALL the pitchers on BOTH of our teams.

let me get this straight...pedro is better than haren, verlander, young, cain, etc. uh...hate to break it to ya dubinski, but it's 2008, not 1998, good luck w/ that! Rocket Fuel- How are people gonna take you serious when you think that Matt Cain is better than Pedro Martinez? The only reason why Martinez is not taken in the 3rd round as opposed to the 9th or 10th is because of INJURY concern not washed up concerns. I think Pedro is healthy. I am willing to back that up and own him and I think you will see this type of line from him:

175 innings

185 Ks

1.00 Whip

3.30 ERA

15 wins

Now which of the players above can do that? None can do the WHIP. Verlander can do the Ks and wins, but probably not the ERA due to league. Cain can do it all but hasn't yet and wins are a concern. and Finally, Haren can come close- so I will concede Haren.

JEagle · Post by **JEagle** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:52 am

not sure whose better but burrell, dunn & cust = bad BA

Spyhunter · Post by **Spyhunter** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:21 am

Originally posted by JEagle:

not sure whose better but burrell, dunn & cust = bad BA LOL of course, that is why:

Helton

Chipper Jones

Crawford

Phillips

And a big reason I got Bonds on the bench is to put in (assuming he gets a job?) if any of my OF like Cust are hitting .230...

I expect to win, HR, RBI, and Runs. BA is a toss up, and Dub should win steals (he better he has like 3 speed only guys)

Spy

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:28 am

couple of things about satelites- sometimes they look even to me and sometimes they end up with 4-5 really good teams. this appears to be the latter. really tough to judge without seeing the other teams- which no one brings up. as of TODAY- i like both teams- but i really like dubs. wood is very close to being named the closer. maybe SOMEONE understands that the guy that pitches with runners on- the set up guy- is more valuable. plus- my only free fantasy tip of the year- and i suck so take it for what it is worth- wood is a starter. if he pitches the 9th- he starts off in a windup. 8th- stretch. verlander, young pedro- 3 of top 10 TALENTS in the majors. victorino vs crawford- same guy minus 4 rounds. just a real good team. both nice though.

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:34 am

dear everyone- pedro is what 37? ok- go back and take rockets, randys, smolt shilling age 37 38 years on this board- and tell me pedro can't be great at 37 . haren? if pedro EVER put up a second half like haren last year- i bet he commits suicide. haren gets to pitch to pitcher twice- but he also now pitches in arizona. cain? please. hey dub ain't my favorite guy but those are 2 nice teams- btw- james wil be dl'ed here shortly.

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:36 am

btw- hitting was the right pick to make the bet- could easily go either way. chipper gets 525 ab's and cust hits 35 - look out

DiamondKing · Post by **DiamondKing** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:50 am

Originally posted by headhunters:

dear everyone- pedro is what 37? ok- go back and take rockets, randys, smolt shilling age 37 38 years on this board- and tell me pedro can't be great at 37 . haren? if pedro EVER put up a second half like haren last year- i bet he commits suicide. haren gets to pitch to pitcher twice- but he also now pitches in arizona. cain? please. hey dub ain't my favorite guy but those are 2 nice teams- btw- james wil be dl'ed here shortly. None of those pitchers are built like a thirteen year old girl.

Crazy Like a Fox · Post by **Crazy Like a Fox** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:43 am

Originally posted by headhunters:

dear everyone- pedro is what 37? ok- go back and take rockets, randys, smolt shilling age 37 38 years on this board- and tell me pedro can't be great at 37 . haren? if pedro EVER put up a second half like haren last year- i bet he commits suicide. haren gets to pitch to pitcher twice- but he also now pitches in arizona. cain? please. hey dub ain't my favorite guy but those are 2 nice teams- btw- james wil be dl'ed here shortly. Great post. I agree with everything.

If Pedro and Haren both have 15 wins it's reasonable to assume that Pedro's peripherals will be better. I think Haren has more strikeouts just based on overall innings but I give the nod in e.r.a./whip to Pedro with wins being very close. Haren might have a couple more wins based on the potential for more starts but Pedro is still the better pitcher.

A definite value pick when you consider Pedro is going 80 picks later. After Pedro's last throwing session the pitching coach is absolutely "ecstatic".

I look forward to a fine year out of Pedro. Plus, he "wants to pitch another couple years" and Pedro clearly wants to wait until the end of the season before negotiating another contract. Lots of motivation. Nice offense behind him. And, he'll be battling Johan every week trying to "one-up" each other.