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Is anybody else getting tired of the daily non-news nonsense surrounding Mark Teixeira?

I am sure that most of it is orchestrated by Boras, but c'mon, give a baseball fan a break! Every three or four days, Teixeira's answer is coming soon. I'm sure Boras can't believe the Yankees aren't making an offer and is still holding out hope.

My hope? I hope the Yankees don't make a bid. I hope BOTH the Angels and RedSox grow tired of the bidding and take their offers off the table.

This would lead Boras to either get the best offer from the Nats or Orioles and their cellar dwelling ways or go back to the big 3 with his tail between his legs for less money.

My view is that the Angels need him the most of the big 3. Guerrero is in the last year of his contract with diminishing skills, Garrett Anderson is gone, and Torii Hunter is not a 3-4 hitter.

By the way, just messing around but this looks scary-



1. Damon

2. Jeter

3. ARod

4. Teixeira

5. Nady

6. Cano

7. Matsui

8. Posada

9. Swisher



1. Sabathia

2. Burnett

3. Wang

4. Pettitte

5. Whoever



7th and 8th- Joba

Closing - Rivera



A horrible defensive outfield, but scary nonetheless.

dough,



i am with you on the leaks i have grown tired of them as well. his price has gone significantly with angels pulling out...you can bank(no pun) on that. i must be honest...the yankees lineup doesnt send shivers down my spine when i see all that age and injury risk. damon...jeter...posada...giambi...matsui....seriously i see injury risk at a premium. i would be much more impressed with the bosox lineup with him in it...i know papi is a huge injury risk as well but i see upside in the bosox ellsbury..pedroria...youk....just my opinion...RT

Agree with all your points. I am really sick of any non-news that says such-and-such a free agent is not signing with whatever team. Who cares? He is not going to sign with 29 teams and the fact that, say, Tex isn't signing with the Angels today doesn't mean he won't sign with them tomorrow. Let me know who he is signing with; otherwise, I don't want to hear about it.



Nit-picky things: Maybe you can make a case for it, but I don't see the Yankees choosing to hit Nady there, ahead of some of the hometown heroes. I think they have been pretty clear that Joba will be in the rotation. And it makes better use of his talent anyway.

I do like the Sox top six. Maybe the best top six in baseball.

That fall off to-



Drew/injury replacement

Varitek

Lowrie

is too much.

Originally posted by bjoak:

Agree with all your points. I am really sick of any non-news that says such-and-such a free agent is not signing with whatever team. Who cares? He is not going to sign with 29 teams and the fact that, say, Tex isn't signing with the Angels today doesn't mean he won't sign with them tomorrow. Let me know who he is signing with; otherwise, I don't want to hear about it.



Nit-picky things: Maybe you can make a case for it, but I don't see the Yankees choosing to hit Nady there, ahead of some of the hometown heroes. I think they have been pretty clear that Joba will be in the rotation. And it makes better use of his talent anyway. We'll know Joba's true niche later. I think he can succeed at either. A lot like Papelbon. The only difference being that the Yankees already have a closer. But, my thinking is, he would be less of a benefit to the fantasy player and more of a benefit to the Yankees if they used him out of the pen.

I'm sure the exact lineup won't be the same, due to injuries or which hand the opposing pitcher is throwing with. I don't think it will be because of the hometown heroes theory. The Yankees didn't make the playoffs and NY is a "What have you done for me lately?" town.



[ December 22, 2008, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

I'm always going to think 200 innings are better than 70. Most relievers are relievers because they couldn't cut it as starters or never got the chance or did it for health reasons (Papelbon).

IMO, if i have a player that only has 70 IP, he'd better have 30-45 saves to go along with them.

Originally posted by KentuckyReign:

IMO, if i have a player that only has 70 IP, he'd better have 30-45 saves to go along with them. You're talking fantasy baseball, my reference was for real baseball.

Originally posted by bjoak:

I'm always going to think 200 innings are better than 70. Most relievers are relievers because they couldn't cut it as starters or never got the chance or did it for health reasons (Papelbon). Papelbon experienced minor pain, like Joba. He actually made a choice during spring training when Boston still had a need for a closer.

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

quote:Originally posted by KentuckyReign:

IMO, if i have a player that only has 70 IP, he'd better have 30-45 saves to go along with them. You're talking fantasy baseball, my reference was for real baseball. [/QUOTE]sorry dough, i have a one track mind sometimes.

For real baseball, I have a hard time buying into the 200 is better than 70 argument. We can use Smoltz as an example. He shined at both starting and closing. Atlanta used him at their greater need and it was beneficial to them both ways.

I think with their recent signings that the Yankees have more of a need setting up Rivera than using Joba as a fifth starter over Hughes or another signing. The difference at fifth starter will not be as great as Joba setting up Rivera.

Although flush with money, the Yankees do not make very good personnel decisions. With that said,I believe that Joba will start the season as the fifth starter, I also believe he will end up in the pen.

Fantasy-wise, Joba won't have Joba setting up after a start. Lessening his fantasy value a bit.

Besides, beyond your 200-70 ip theory, Joba can effect the outcome of 70 games as a reliever, only 30 as a starter.



[ December 22, 2008, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

A few questions about Teixeira-



Where would you draft him in the Boston-New York lineup?



Now, where would you draft him playing in Washington with their lineup?



What is the biggest difference maker?



The Park



The lineup



Switching leagues (Even though he did play in Atlanta for awhile)



All of the above



[ December 22, 2008, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

Dan, you always post the most interesting questions. As for your original post in this stream I'll just say 'Su esperanzas es mi esperanzas'. Commenting further would have us once again descend into the dreaded political discussion. I'll PM you about that later. As for Tex, I always found him to be an extremely streaky player and so frustrating during those periods for us roto-slaves to endure. In the end of course his numbers always provide value. I often wonder though what causes this characteristic in certain players. Is it mechanical, relating to the complexities of their swing, or is it psychological and pertaining to how an individual deals with frustration. Perhaps it contains some measure of both. In any event, if Tex goes under the baseball microscope in NY or Boston I think he'll produce at the lower end of his norm in the first year. Believing that his cold streaks may well be more pronounced in the dual environment of hefty contract and lofty expectations. In time he'll be just fine, but if he lands in either Fenway or Yankee Stadium his ADP should only be moved up based on one's tolerance for risk.

Originally posted by Spartacus:

Dan, you always post the most interesting questions. As for your original post in this stream I'll just say 'Su esperanzas es mi esperanzas'. Commenting further would have us once again descend into the dreaded political discussion. I'll PM you about that later. As for Tex, I always found him to be an extremely streaky player and so frustrating during those periods for us roto-slaves to endure. In the end of course his numbers always provide value. I often wonder though what causes this characteristic in certain players. Is it mechanical, relating to the complexities of their swing, or is it psychological and pertaining to how an individual deals with frustration. Perhaps it contains some measure of both. In any event, if Tex goes under the baseball microscope in NY or Boston I think he'll produce at the lower end of his norm in the first year. Believing that his cold streaks may well be more pronounced in the dual environment of hefty contract and lofty expectations. In time he'll be just fine, but if he lands in either Fenway or Yankee Stadium his ADP should only be moved up based on one's tolerance for risk. Bingo Bob!

I could hug you...but I won't. His numbers may be better in Washington despite the detriments listed. So many times the psyche is left out of the equation. Teixeira's funks may be more prolonged in Boston or NY. Rabidness of fans and press is not everybodys cup of tea. We don't know about Teixeira until he experiences the vacuum.

Teixeira has never struck me as the Bos-NY type. Bos-NY is fighting a Lion in the Roman Coliseum with 100,000 screaming people. I picture Teixeira being more comfortable playing in an MTV Celebrity softball game.

Originally posted by Spartacus:

As for Tex, I always found him to be an extremely streaky player and so frustrating during those periods for us roto-slaves to endure. In the end of course his numbers always provide value. I often wonder though what causes this characteristic in certain players. Is it mechanical, relating to the complexities of their swing, or is it psychological and pertaining to how an individual deals with frustration. Interesting topic. I always was a streaky hitter whether little lge, high school or adult baseball or softball - and I was always very aware/analytical of the mental side of the game. From my own experience, I've always suspected streakiness is mostly mechanics.



I think hitter frustration is just a symptom of not getting a desired/expected outcome (not a cause), while getting a desired outcome is a result of mechanics. Mechanics is in part affected by mental approach - having the right mindset of relaxation versus intensity - but I think one good AB can correct mindset. One good AB, however, does not fix a physical mechanical flaw, so again I think for streaky hitters it mostly comes back to mechanics.



I do think life distractions which affect preparation can have a profound effect, but that is more likely to manifest in a poor overall season rather than yr after yr streakiness within a season.



[ December 23, 2008, 01:18 AM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

For real baseball, I have a hard time buying into the 200 is better than 70 argument. We can use Smoltz as an example. He shined at both starting and closing. Atlanta used him at their greater need and it was beneficial to them both ways.

I think with their recent signings that the Yankees have more of a need setting up Rivera than using Joba as a fifth starter over Hughes or another signing. The difference at fifth starter will not be as great as Joba setting up Rivera.

Although flush with money, the Yankees do not make very good personnel decisions. With that said,I believe that Joba will start the season as the fifth starter, I also believe he will end up in the pen.

Fantasy-wise, Joba won't have Joba setting up after a start. Lessening his fantasy value a bit.

Besides, beyond your 200-70 ip theory, Joba can effect the outcome of 70 games as a reliever, only 30 as a starter. Well, outcomes of games but you're still just talking outcomes of innings within those games. You know, in a sense I could see how that bullpen could be a disaster and in that sense he has more value in the pen, but that is just bad management. You can get a good non-closing reliever on the cheap (say Juan Cruz) and then use Joba in the rotation. By way of example, they could have gotten Cruz way, way cheaper than Burnett and then used Joba in the rotation. I guess some people might want the marquee names, but I think at the end of the season there is not a whole lot of difference between AJ SP, Joba RP and Joba SP, Cruz RP other than the extra 40 million or more they'd have spent on the former. Again, it ends up being a misutilization of resources. If nothing else, he has more monetary value in the rotation.



[ December 23, 2008, 03:20 AM: Message edited by: bjoak ]

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Spartacus:

As for Tex, I always found him to be an extremely streaky player and so frustrating during those periods for us roto-slaves to endure. In the end of course his numbers always provide value. I often wonder though what causes this characteristic in certain players. Is it mechanical, relating to the complexities of their swing, or is it psychological and pertaining to how an individual deals with frustration. Interesting topic. I always was a streaky hitter whether little lge, high school or adult baseball or softball - and I was always very aware/analytical of the mental side of the game. From my own experience, I've always suspected streakiness is mostly mechanics.



I think hitter frustration is just a symptom of not getting a desired/expected outcome (not a cause), while getting a desired outcome is a result of mechanics. Mechanics is in part affected by mental approach - having the right mindset of relaxation versus intensity - but I think one good AB can correct mindset. One good AB, however, does not fix a physical mechanical flaw, so again I think for streaky hitters it mostly comes back to mechanics.



I do think life distractions which affect preparation can have a profound effect, but that is more likely to manifest in a poor overall season rather than yr after yr streakiness within a season. [/QUOTE]True enough. It could even start out as a minor mechanical flaw and manifest itself into a major psych problem with the extended length of the slump. The savvy fantasy player will know that and may start a more statistically challenged player for the slumping player for a week.

Putting the fact that im a die hard Yankee fan to the side the ONLY place that Joba belongs is in the rotation. Guys like Lincecum, Scherzer, Joba, belong in the rotation. The Yanke rotation will be deep but not without concerns. Burnett, Wang and Petitte will have some risk to them. I wouldnt want Joba in the pen only to have to be stretched out half way through the season. He has tremendous (filthy) stuff and in my humble opinion should be in the rotation. The Yankees have some young, very promising, middle relief guys that they will hopefully be able to develop and count on.





Jeff

Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

For real baseball, I have a hard time buying into the 200 is better than 70 argument. We can use Smoltz as an example. He shined at both starting and closing. Atlanta used him at their greater need and it was beneficial to them both ways.

I think with their recent signings that the Yankees have more of a need setting up Rivera than using Joba as a fifth starter over Hughes or another signing. The difference at fifth starter will not be as great as Joba setting up Rivera.

Although flush with money, the Yankees do not make very good personnel decisions. With that said,I believe that Joba will start the season as the fifth starter, I also believe he will end up in the pen.

Fantasy-wise, Joba won't have Joba setting up after a start. Lessening his fantasy value a bit.

Besides, beyond your 200-70 ip theory, Joba can effect the outcome of 70 games as a reliever, only 30 as a starter. Well, outcomes of games but you're still just talking outcomes of innings within those games. You know, in a sense I could see how that bullpen could be a disaster and in that sense he has more value in the pen, but that is just bad management. You can get a good non-closing reliever on the cheap (say Juan Cruz) and then use Joba in the rotation. By way of example, they could have gotten Cruz way, way cheaper than Burnett and then used Joba in the rotation. I guess some people might want the marquee names, but I think at the end of the season there is not a whole lot of difference between AJ SP, Joba RP and Joba SP, Cruz RP other than the extra 40 million or more they'd have spent on the former. Again, it ends up being a misutilization of resources. If nothing else, he has more monetary value in the rotation. [/QUOTE]The Yankees are the kings of misutilizing resources, its their way of keeping things even in baseball.

In real baseball, the goal is to make it to the playoffs and then have the best team over a shorter period of time.

Wouldn't the rotation of



1. Sabathia

2. Wang

3. Burnett

4. Pettitte



With Joba and Rivera in the pen, give them the best chance at a Championship?

Originally posted by fireballs:

Putting the fact that im a die hard Yankee fan to the side the ONLY place that Joba belongs is in the rotation. Guys like Lincecum, Scherzer, Joba, belong in the rotation. The Yanke rotation will be deep but not without concerns. Burnett, Wang and Petitte will have some risk to them. I wouldnt want Joba in the pen only to have to be stretched out half way through the season. He has tremendous (filthy) stuff and in my humble opinion should be in the rotation. The Yankees have some young, very promising, middle relief guys that they will hopefully be able to develop and count on.





Jeff Same could have been said for Papelbon and Nathan.

I have no doubt that Joba will start out in the rotation. They're the Yankees. They like showcasing their product.

All they need do is look across town. They are making the same mistake the Mets made last year. Signing the best pitcher on the market and thinking they are good-to-go. But, if they want to win Championships, Joba goes to the pen.

Have to humbly disagree Dan. I think the arms the Yankees have in the pen in front of MO will be more than adequate. I also dont equate the Mets from last year with the Yankess from this year in any way. I think that Burnett, Joba, Wang and Petitte are far superior to Maine, Ollie Perez, Pelfrey and Pedro.

Even for the playoffs, Jeff?

Ill tell you after I see how the youg arms fare in the regular season

I think the Red Sox have a similar decision with regards to Masterson. Masterson both started and relieved last year and was effective in both. I wonder what the Sox do, and how this will contrast to what the Yanks do.



Come October, Joe Giradi will want Joba in the pen. In real baseball, life becomes alot easier for Giradi, if he can turn the ball over to Joba 2-3 times a week. It can save on the starters' arms as well as the need for Mo to go 1+. If I am Giradi, I wnat him in the 'pen.



Fantasy-wise, the uncertainty will lead to him being drafted later than his talent deserves.

Getting back to Boras, if I were a GM, Id make it a rule not to deal with him. Tex is a nice middle of the order bat, but he is not a guy who is going to carry your team. Do you want to be paying this guy 23 mill when he is 39 and going 255 20 75 and a liability on defense? This is the kind of contract that can cripple a team. If I were Boston, Id extend Bay and use the rest to sign another bat of which there are many.