Mock 3 Team

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:46 am

I agree with Ryan, LTD. Those who draft Chipper are drafting him looking at his numbers and forgetting how he burned his owners the previous years with unexpected stints on bench, waiting to go on DL, coming back from DL too early, saying he will play and then not playing, saying he wont play and then playing. He makes it impossible to reap the benefit of his gaudy numbers.

My point is that when you have a player who you know will spend time on DL, you know that going in, but opt to take him because his #s will be good when healthy. But if you can not predict when he will play and when he will sit, even the good part-time numbers become a risk. For that reason, I would not draft him in top 10 rounds. Id rather have less spectacular numbers that were more certain.

Less than Dave · Post by **Less than Dave** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:18 am

Schwks, you drafted Kaz Matsui, who has never in FIVE seasons had a full one... and that's as your starting 2B! Good luck finding one of those on the waiver wire. Now, I hate drafting injury prone players as much as anyone else (last year I avoided it like the plague and it STILL bit me in the ass), but it's about value. First of all, as Doughboys pointed out to me last year, Pujols always talks about injuries, then he never misses any (or very little) time. Everyone was so scared about Pujols being injured this past year, and look what he did! His lowest game total he has ever totaled in his career is 143... I'll take that risk with his immense talents. Had either SS been available at #3, I would haven taken him. But to me, Pujols is a notch above AROD and clearly above Wright.

"Those who draft Chipper are drafting him looking at his numbers and forgetting how he burned his owners the previous years with unexpected stints on bench, waiting to go on DL, coming back from DL too early, saying he will play and then not playing, saying he wont play and then playing."

Wrong. I did not draft him just looking at last year's numbers. I drafted him looking at his VALUE in the FIFTH round! Did you happen to notice I also have Kevin Kouzmanoff? When Chipper is injured (and yes, I know he will be) then I can plug in Kouz and get solid stats from him.. and when Chipper DOES play, he is an elite talent. One of his best skills is his penchant to hit for a high batting average, and even missing time he will still contribute that. Now maybe I will, maybe I won't actually draft Chipper, but I certainly don't see it as a "bad pick" at pick #63 with only Chris Davis and Garrett Atkins as the next best 3B (and keep in mind Davis is somewhat of a question mark and Atkins is not nearly good enough to be drafted that high.) I look at Atkins in the 5th, and Beltre/Zimmerman/Figgins in the 7th and think man, I sure am glad I got Chipper in the 5th! I could see Davis being a better pick there, but he is a huge question mark still. Maybe this lack of elite 3B is a good argument for going for AROD over Pujols with the #3 pick though... hmmmm....

Jim Thome - I got him in the THIRTEENTH round. Can you honestly fault me for that?? In the last 3 years he has played between 130-150 games... that's not a HUGE injury risk. Yes, he will miss 10-30 games, but I have plenty of other options to start at UT when he does miss those games. Again, this is about VALUE. Getting a guaranteed 30 HR (and quite possibly more) in the 13th round is nothing to sneeze at.

Juan Pierre - I can't see him NOT starting SOMEWHERE next season (Dodgers are looking to trade him). He could easily lead the league in steals, which are always in short supply. Also, keep in mind that had this draft gone the full 30 rounds, I would have drafted other OF before filling P, etc. I had several guys in mind who would be solid starters in case Pierre wasn't a good starting OF, so again, that's not really a problem either. I understand some people don't like drafting a 3 cat guy who gets no HR or RBI, but again.. VALUE.. in the FIFTEENTH round, can you honestly tell me that's a bad pick? The guy was a top 10 (I think even top 7) round draft pick every other year...

Now I respect all of your opinions and please feel free to comment on anything else, but I always like a chance to explain/defend my picks as well... thanks Ryan and Schwks for your input

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:30 am

LTD, Turning around and blasting a pick of another participant is not a 'thank you " gesture but one done out of spite and NOT a good way to garner constructive crticism.

That said, I think that your team looks solid and there were some really good picks, including late , late grab of Galaragga. I have no problem with waiting on drafting catchers, but I think waiting until mid-20s rounds is hard to fill the 2nd spot.

My point on Chipper is not that he doesnt put up great numbers when healthy, buut that he seems difficult to forecast on a weekly basis...eg if you dont KNOW that he wont start, you will be inclined to NOT replace him. He seems to do that more then other oft-injured players which makes it difficult to supplement his #s with his replacement's #s.

Less than Dave · Post by **Less than Dave** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:48 am

Schwks, my apologies if that's how you took it, and I can see how you could... my point was merely that you also invested a starting spot in a guy at least as injury-prone as Chipper, probably because you too felt even with that risk his value was the best at that point that you could get. I don't know what to make of Galarraga... I really liked the guy last year, but his DIPS ERA (I think) was like 4.76 or something... his skill set was never that good, but he was so consistently solid last year I felt the risk in the 23rd round was worth it.

"Agent Scott Boras said the Dodgers will release Andruw Jones on January 15 if they're unable to swing a trade for him."

-There's Pierre's full-time PT right there... unless you think Delwyn Young takes abs away...

Less than Dave · Post by **Less than Dave** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:51 am

And I think I disagree on the catcher comment... I really am going to consider taking 2 fairly solid catchers, which I was not on pace to do in this draft... I think it could make a big difference. Probably won't be in the first 3 rounds though. I guess it might depend on who falls to the 4th round...

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:02 am

Originally posted by Less than Dave:

-There's Pierre's full-time PT right there... There is this guy named Manny that the Dodgers have an interest in.

Also, Willie Taveras was non-tendered. He is comparable to Pierre. You can't really think Pierre is tradeable with that contract, can you?

Schwks · Post by **Schwks** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:09 am

Dough, I think LTD's point is that he drafted him based upon the fact that he has a spot in Dec/Jan. If the situation changes in March, he wont be drafted or will be much later. Even though I hate players of that ilk, I think it was a respectable pick there.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:17 am

LTD also said that he can not see Pierre not starting next year and that the Dodgers are looking for a trade.

[ January 06, 2009, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: DOUGHBOYS ]

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:27 am

ltd- either you have another catcher or you don't have kouz. evaluating the team as is- i think you and shwks - with 7 rounds to go could easily back up your 2b/ 3b or catcher problems. if you keep kouz- you will be weak at catcher- but that is ok. it is a decent team- but if i had to play it out from today- i like schwks a lot better. he has 2 closers and a nice "maybe" and real high k's. he has speed/power locked in. you have some great players- but if pierre doesn't start and you go 6 weeks with 1 closer- he would be tough to beat. i don't buy the chipper argument- i am on your side on that one. chipper has been great the last 2 years- and hurt. mike

Less than Dave · Post by **Less than Dave** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:42 pm

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Less than Dave:

[qb]

-There's Pierre's full-time PT right there... There is this guy named Manny that the Dodgers have an interest in.

This is true... however, obviously if he doesn't have a starting gig by March, I won't be drafting him most likely... but cmon, seriously, the 15th round?? You really want to call that a bad pick??

Less than Dave · Post by **Less than Dave** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:46 pm

oops, quoted wrong