Confusion Over Jolbert Cabrera

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:45 am

Okay, I am posting my response to our confusion over Jolbert Cabrera in this forum because this was an Auction League problem only and shouldn't concern the NFBC participants. Basically here is what happened and what needs to be done:

1) Saturday's trade that sent Jolbert Cabrera and Jason Romano to the American League should have placed both players into the AL Auction League free agent pool immediately. Unfortunately, that didn't happen and as I was working on Sunday afternoon I was alerted to that fact. Jim at STATS was also working on Sunday and attempted to manually put both players into the player pool, but it took longer than expected and it wasn't accomplished until right at 7 p.m. EST. I chose to add an hour to the AL Auction League FAAB period and to e-mail all NFBC participants so that everyone had a fair shot at both players as a couple of participants already were getting bids in for Cabrera just before the deadline. I certainly didn't think that was fair to the group.

2) When the extra hour was extended, we allowed the bids that came in to run and Cabrera was awarded to owners in Las Vegas and New York. However, before the end of the night I received enough personal e-mails to realize that less than a majority of owners in each AL league saw the extended deadline e-mail and didn't have a chance to participate in the bidding for Cabrera. Although I was trying to be fair to everyone, I quickly realized that extending the deadline wasn't the fairest option for everyone.

3) One of the reasons I extended the deadline was because we were able to get Milton Bradley entered into the NL Auction League free agent pool by Sunday afternoon when that trade was made, and it seemed odd that a trade that happened a day earlier wasn't being included in that week's transactions. So while we were quick in correctly maneuvering Sunday's trade, the technical glitch for Saturday's trade caused the havoc right at the deadline.

4) In the best interests of both leagues, I am asking STATS to rescind the pickups of Cabrera and to re-run the AL Auction League transactions. It's possible that the teams who were awarded Cabrera had conditional bids that will award them other free agents who were granted to other teams. If we can still do it, we will re-run the Auction League bids and alert everyone to their new pickups. We will definitely give everyone enough time today to make sure their lineups are legal and the way they want them.

Again, I'm speaking before being assured from STATS that we can do this. Our first glitch has alerted us that an inter-league trade shouldn't force us to manually enter free agents into the Auction League pools, but unfortunately that's what happened in Week 1. That won't happen going forward, I assure you.

I apologize to the two owners who may not get Cabrera, but this is in the best interest of both leagues going forward. As for Bradley and the NL Auction League, we will always allow Sunday trades to be included in that week's free agent pickups as long as the computer is able to get those players into the pool early enough. In this case, that occurred.

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 5:54 am

GREG this is a terrible decision on your part. I think for the most part everyone that wanted to bid on j Cabrera did. He should have been in the pool and you made sure it was albeit late. i bid on him as did others. i think reruning the bids Foulkes up the whole damn league and am very disapointed in your decision making.

Leaderboard Sports · Post by **Leaderboard Sports** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:58 am

I understand your trying to make things right regarding Cabrerra for both those who bid on him and those who didn't get to bid. I am an NL owner so I am looking at this from the outside and can see no fair way to resolve this for all parties concerned. Exposing the bid amounts by those who won Cabrerra forces them to way over spend now to get him and leaving him on the rosters allows a decent player to be added to someones team without every team having an opportunity to bid on him. Perhaps the fairest thing to do would be to pull Cabrerra off the AL player pool and allow no one to own him. You're not going to be able to make everyone happy regarding Cabrerra so maybe you should just pull him and make no one happy regarding Cabrerra.

viper · Post by **viper** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 10:42 am

I'm not an AL only league owner either but I disagree with the post about anyone who wanted him would have stayed. Once 7pm hit the bid process was over. Period. As I recall, that was the "absolute" deadline. Going to have dinner at that time with the intentions to return in a hour or so to see the results was surely reasonable.

I can't really comment on the solution as some teams will be unhappy regardless of the decision. I know at one time I suggested an eligibility fereeze of 6pm. In retrospect, this may have been prudent and possibly still should occur. Last time I checked, teams did make trades Saturday night and Sunday morning. Occassionaly these deals move a player from one league to another.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:02 am

Leaderboard, I think I have already made no one happy. But I'm trying to do what's fair for both leagues and thus a tough decision has to be made involving his eligibility for this week and the rest of the season. Some owners have told me they can't possibly compete anymore if they don't get him, which is hard to fathom with the entire season ahead of us. But again, I believe this is a situation that won't happen again, I will most definitely try to put a two-hour cutoff point for free agents entering the FAAB process and I'll work with our stats provider to make sure these inter-league trades get the proper free agents into their respective leagues on time. That's what I have to take from this and make sure the rest of the FAAB process runs right.

To be honest, the NFBC FAAB went extremely smooth for the first week. A hiccup here or there, but nothing as major as the Cabrera omission in the Auction Leagues. Unfortunately, one error is enough to lose a ballgame and we'll try to be more error-free the rest of the way. But Cabrera will be eligible again in the AL and everyone will have a shot at him. And I'll continue to take the brunt of the punishment, which is what I get paid the small bucks for.

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:51 pm

Well thats just foulking stupid. now it take the rest of the gdamn week figuring whose line up is what because 1 or 2 guys who i cant imagine putting in a winning bid on cabrera bitched.

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 1:23 pm

during the it was made known that there could be late additions to the pool . anyone who wanted cabrera should have been around. some owners who were lazy and now think they may have missed out on something want a do over. let it stand as is can be the only option at this point

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:02 pm

Originally posted by KLN:

during the it was made known that there could be late additions to the pool . anyone who wanted cabrera should have been around. some owners who were lazy and now think they may have missed out on something want a do over. let it stand as is can be the only option at this point This is cut and paste from the email I received from Greg titled 'NFBC Newsletter Update 04-02-04'

I received it on Friday, 4-02-04 at 3:57 pm

"The absolute deadline for free-agent bids is every Sunday at 7 p.m. EST. The toll-free phone number to contact STATS and make lineup changes or FAAB bids is (888) 450-2730. To make a free-agent bid online, go to the NFBC Web site, type in your username and password, then go "Transactions," click on "Transactions" and then "Free Agents." "

When I read that it was the 'absolute' deadline I concluded that it was really the 'absolute' deadline.

Sorry if you read ambiguity in that. Absolute is a strong word and doesn't leave any wiggle room in my book.

Having said that, I have to spend all gdamn week figuring it out, too. To propose that it's because I (or others) are lazy is ridiculous.

I agree it sucks for you and for Walla - I would be upset had I won the bids and now the player bid might be reversed.

Still, can't you at least admit that it was unfair that only some part of the league knew of a last minute change that was basically forbidden by previous rules? You can't see the obvious fairness of opening up the bidding again next week when people actually have a chance to bid on him?

Let's all agree it sucks and that Stats taking a day to make a simple move like this is crap - but mistakes happen and the integrity of the contest demands that the difference of plus or minus 60 seconds isn't a 'right' that you've earned or deserve to take advantage of...

Sorry if we aren't in agreement on this - it would be great if Jolbert would break his leg tomorrow and everyone was happy, but the reality is there shouldn't be a small number of teams who can take advantage of circumstances and others who are put at a disadvantage through no fault of their own.

My .02 - you are welcome to hate me if you choose... or rather if you 'foulking' choose.

Dyv

[ April 05, 2004, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Dyv ]

Cellar Dwellers · Post by **Cellar Dwellers** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:04 pm

I swear to God Jolbert Cabrera never deserved this much ink. I can't honestly see how it would be the right thing to throw Cabrera back in the pool. How would it be fair for everyone else to see what the winning bids for Cabrera were in the leagues where he was FAAB'd? I believe the teams that got Cabrera are about to be punished for being on top of a situation and reacting quickly. To compound that, those teams would now have to pay for their second choice this week and then again next week have to spend more money on top of that to acquire Cabrera and probably waive their second choice that they also spent money on. How is that fair?? This also has a trickle down effect, speaking for my league, I know that my second choice was David McCarty and my conditional bid was higher than the winning bid right now that the Bad Angels have. So, the Bad Angels would then get their second choice which could affect another team in the league and so on and so on. What could be worse is, what if the Bad Angels didn't have a second choice? Well then you are left with a certain troubling option of either having them with an empty spot for the week or picking up a free agent after the fact or bringing someone up from reserve to replace him, all this happening after the fact, with games already having been played!! None of those solutions are evenly remotely good and are sure to cause a whole other can of worms opening up. This is not to mention the fact that Cabrera's value is changing as we speak. Depending on his playing time/production this week, his value could go either way, this is not fair to the guys that bid on him this week. I really believe that you are trying to make 22 teams happy as opposed to 2 teams. I know it's alot easier to do the former but that doesn't mean it's right. Greg, I know you and I got into it on the phone but I'm imploring you one last time rationally to let the Cabrera bids stand from this past Sunday, I believe it would be an injustice to do otherwise. I have to believe that you know in your heart it is the lesser of two evils but would rather hear 2 people complain than a possible 22. I do know however that some of those 22 will be complaining when they realize they are not getting the guy they thought they got on Sunday and then that other can of worms opens up.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:08 pm

Originally posted by KLN:

some owners who were lazy and now think they may have missed out on something want a do over. Time for a do-over. Suck it up and move on.

Cellar Dwellers · Post by **Cellar Dwellers** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:13 pm

Dyv-Well what about me getting my bid in at 6:59pm, shouldn't that count if you're saying the deadline should have been a firm 7pm? It's not like there was anything in the rules about players having to be in the pool at least an hour before deadline. Interested in your opinion.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:33 pm

Originally posted by Cellar Dwellers:

Well what about me getting my bid in at 6:59pm, shouldn't that count if you're saying the deadline should have been a firm 7pm? No.

Cellar Dwellers · Post by **Cellar Dwellers** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:43 pm

Gekko, the question was for Dyv not you. You're not in an auction league so go crawl back into the slime before I let everyone know what league and team you are in NFBC. If you think I'm kidding just try me, I'm in no mood for your nonsensical bullsh*t. Stay out of it.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 2:55 pm

Right now I'd be happy to get my money back and get out of the league all together. Because I bid on a player not only do I lose the player but lose any stats from that player. I mean it. If Greg wants to give me back my money I'll be glad to take it.

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:07 pm

Gekko if your not in the league why dont you shut the hell up. we have put up your bullshit long enough

Bama · Post by **Bama** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:11 pm

after this week when people realize how crappy the player is high bid probably only around 10 dollars

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:11 pm

Originally posted by Cellar Dwellers:

Dyv-Well what about me getting my bid in at 6:59pm, shouldn't that count if you're saying the deadline should have been a firm 7pm? It's not like there was anything in the rules about players having to be in the pool at least an hour before deadline. Interested in your opinion. Fair question, CD - you did nothing wrong... no problem there. I think Wallax2 said he got in his bid before 7pm as well. You did exactly what you should have.

I know I checked the FA list somewhere around 2-3 minutes before the deadline, made sure my picks were in and went away for a few hours figuring I'd look in later.

It was beyond my imagination that a player would have been added with 1 minute to go or even exactly what time he was added and what clock was used.

It created a circumstance where through nobody's fault some owners gained an edge that other owner's didn't have... the extension of the deadline by an hour didn't solve anything but was an obvious recognition on Greg's part that his addition was on way too short of a timeframe for reality and fairness. Greg was operating under the notion that it was of utmost importance to get the player into the available pool immediately - but in his rush to fix it I think realized a new problem was created that he hadn't intended.

So, it's a tough tough situation - it seems like you may penalize some owners who were incredibly active - and yet isn't the notion of fairness more important than the "skill" of speed hitting the refresh button?

Put yourself in my shoes - what did I do wrong? I admit you did nothing wrong here... was I at fault for stopping my review 100 seconds too quickly?

Dave

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:16 pm

Originally posted by Walla Walla:

Right now I'd be happy to get my money back and get out of the league all together. Because I bid on a player not only do I lose the player but lose any stats from that player. I mean it. If Greg wants to give me back my money I'll be glad to take it. John - that sucks, man... but I don't understand - how are you worse off here?

I don't get his stats either and I would have outbid you by a lot.

I know that's all window dressing because this is after the fact, but I have no reason to lie to you about this. I may change my thoughts as more information comes out over the next 6 days, but right now I value him highly.

I'm sorry you're so ticked off about this - I'd gladly give you some value for the mistake if it were in my power to do so.

Dave

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:35 pm

Originally posted by Cellar Dwellers:

Gekko, the question was for Dyv not you. You're not in an auction league so go crawl back into the slime before I let everyone know what league and team you are in NFBC. If you think I'm kidding just try me, I'm in no mood for your nonsensical bullsh*t. I guess my one word response (No) really got you fired up. "crawl back into the slime" and "nonsensical bullsh*t" from my one word response?

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:38 pm

Originally posted by KLN:

we have put up your bullsh*t long enough Opinions vary.

If my teams don't perform well, it's likely that I won't post as much.

Cellar Dwellers · Post by **Cellar Dwellers** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:07 pm

Dyv-I don't think you did anything wrong by leaving the site 100 seconds or so too early. I just know that I set my sites on Cabrera from the moment he was traded on Saturday and was not going to leave the website until the last second because I was sure with all my emails to Greg and calls to STATS that he would be up there by 7pm. I can't fault anyone for leaving before 7pm but I was making damn sure I was going to be there when he popped up because that's how badly I felt I needed him. I don't think my tenacity should be punished. I think the mess it will create with some of the other teams having to make changes to the players they FAAB'ed yesterday will only further make this a worse situation than keeping Cabrera on the rosters that got him yesterday. I can see the claims going in for Mendy Lopez and his 3 run HR now from teams that have to replace the free agent they thought they got yesterday and will want him added to their team effective Monday because otherwise they'd have an empty spot on their roster. It gets too messy to reverse this but I do thank you for responding Dyv.

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:08 pm

They need to add a graemlin with tears for all for all of this crying going on...

Dyv, I got my bid in right before 7:00, too. So there were several of us that did. I don't know how many other people did, but it is obvious there were a few. My only point in this is that I don't think bucking Greg's decisions is going to make any of this any easier. Greg made a decision, and since he is the commissioner we should go with it. I didn't think that Bush was making the right decision on going to Iraq, but somehow we ended up there (okay, that is probably a bad analogy). The idea of having a live commissioner means getting some tough calls against you everyonce in awhile. As much as you think you got screwed in this, I think Walla Walla got screwed twice more. You now know what he valued Cabrera at.

KLN, please use a little more etiquette on the board. I am on your side in this, but you are making our side look bad with all of the foulking language and grammar.

Gekko, I can only hope you do very poorly in this league so I don't have to see your posts anymore.

Walla, look on the bright side. You will get a second chance, and no one else is getting to use his stats either. From what I can tell that is going to be pretty devastating to everyone in the AL league. Besides, he wasn't worth $101. He'll only be a part-timer until Spiezio comes back. Then he will be a bench warmer for Seattle.

Jolbert, why in the hell did you have to get traded to the Mariners?! They don't need someone like you! The Dodgers do! You have now killed me in the NFBC!!! In a month you will be warming the bench and I will have two teams with no starting middle infielders!!!!

Greg, are you regretting starting this league yet?

Everyone, my goodness, let's have some fun... Every post on this messageboard over the past week has been negative. I hate to look at this board anymore.

Jackstraw · Post by **Jackstraw** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:12 pm

Oh yeah, one other thing...

Cellar Dwellers, I nominate you to be the leader of the cause. Very well-spoken and thought out. Keep up the good work

Cellar Dwellers · Post by **Cellar Dwellers** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:16 pm

Thank you Jackstraw

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:34 pm

The hard part is that I see both sides on this... and while it will be a pain to go back and recreate the transactions - I don't see the harm to the contest by rolling it backward. How is there ANY negative to anyone by having Jolbert back in the FA pool for next week?

The nuisance of having to sort out rosters? Okay - that's true...

The effect of leaving the transactions stand is that it jeopardizes the fairness of the contest by creating a system of inequity among the owners. That should NEVER happen.

Knowing what Walla WOULD have bid has zero relevance for next week - despite the feelings that now he's been 'outed' in this... he can change his mind and so can we all on what we would have done.

Now we all go into the bidding on equal ground. Surely you see the imbalance of leaving things as they are??!?

Cellar - you make your point very well and I am wrestling with how much of this I feel is inequity and how much I feel is me personally not getting a chance at the player... then I realize that IS the problem.

The fact that I had no (realistic) chance to react or be involved IS the problem.

Looking at the bigger picture of this contest - is it fair that some owners gained an advantage over others because of something like this happening give or take 100 seconds? I have Jolbert starting in my full NFBC league - I like him, I value him. I would have bid on him. Why didn't I get that chance?

Thanks,

Dave