NFBC Message Boards

Yunel Escobar:
Hey Skip, what time do we play?

Joe Maddon:
1:05....Same as your batting average.

We almost expect Escobar to hit .105
He is one of those players that the lowness of batting average can only be exceeded by his character.
What we don't expect is for Jason Heyward to have the same batting average. While the Upton's, and Gattis, and Johnson have been going great guns for the Braves, Heyward is struggling.
And unlike Escobar, his slow start will probably be forgotten with one great game.

Aaron Hicks and Jackie Bradley Jr. were darlings two short weeks ago. Two weeks later with 31 strike outs in 72 at bats between them, they both look like spring training flashes and in way over their heads....

Rick Ankiel has had 23 at bats. 21 of those 23 at bats have resulted in a hit or strike out.
Unfortunately, 17 strike outs....He also has not walked....but he does have a good arm...
Sorry, Mama told me to say something nice....

I like watching the Red Sox this year. It's a lesson for all baseball owners and GM's.
Never hire a Manager who wants more attention than the players.

JP Arencibia has 18 whiffs....and nobody cares.
Pedro Alvarez has 15 k's....and everybody is concerned.
Like I love to tell the Numerish, strike outs don't matter, it's what they're doing the rest of the time that does....


In that same vein, John Buck has taken one walk....very Numerish unfriendly
And if the Forecaster were to come out tomorrow, a sure target for 'regression'.

Adrian Gonzalez has batted over .400 and has a close to .500 on base percentage.
He also has two homers.
Chew on that...ok, done?
Adrian Gonzalez has only scored three runs this year.

Torii Hunter has not walked this year. Life is good between AJax and Miggy....

DavidWright, Ryan Zimmerman, Mike Moustakas, Pedro Alvarez, Kyle Seager, Jedd Gyorko
All slugging third basemen....
All with no home runs...
If owning them, don't feel bad.
Neither does Jay Bruce, Giancarlo Stanton, Allen Craig, Jason Kipnis, Buster Posey, Dustin Pedroia, Victor Martinez, or Matt Kemp...

Adam Wainwright has struck out 24 batters in 22 innings. He hasn't given up a walk.

Clayton Kershaw has been terrific in giving up just 12 hits in 23 innings...
Still, that is twice as many hits as Matt Harvey has allowed....

12 pitchers owning a Save, have more strike outs than Craig Kimbrel
Not to worry, his E.R.A. is 0.00

Milk toast pitchers are having their way this year...
Maholm, Zito, Buchholz, Westbrooks, Pettitte, and Tim Hudson have a tough time striking out their Mom's, but faring well against Major Leaguers.

'J' pitchers are perplexing their owners....
Take a look at the wonderful WHIP....and the not so great ERA's that go with it....

James McDonald 1.00/3.75
Jake Peavy 1.04/3.93
Jeremy Guthrie 1.03/3.55
Jason Hammel 1.07/4.34
Jon Garland 1.08/3.75
James Shields 1.10/3.43
Jeremy Hellickson 1.13/5.09 !

A scoring question for you Dan - beacuse I assume you know all such things ...

Lincecum gave up 5 or 6 runs early last week in the first inning, all scored with two out and were recorded as earned runs.

I didn't see the play, but I think this is what happened ...
• There were a couple men on base, and the ball was hit to the left side.
• The ss or 3b fielded the ball and threw wildly to second.
• The play was scored a fielder's choice with an error on the throw.
• I believe the official scorer ruled the runner would've been safe at 2b, so the error was in allowing the runners to advance (even though the fielder could've had the out at first).
• Later in the inning, after two outs were recorded, 5 or 6 "earned" runs scored.
• Thus, on a routine play in which someone should've been out, no out was recorded and all runs in the innings were earned because of it.

I think this is what happened ... if so, is it correct scoring to count all runs as earned even though an out should've been recorded but for a bad decision by the infielder?

Yes, it is.
The same thing could have happened to Boggs yesterday when Molina chose to go after a runner going from second to third on a bunt rather than the easy play at first base.
Pitchers E.R.A.'s are enslaved to bad choices by their fielders.

For year's, scorekeepers have wanted the freedom to award a 'team error' in order to bring more reality to baseball scoring and to a pitcher's E.R.A.
In both cases, a team error could have been charged to the 'Fielder's choice' team, not to the fielder himself.
Team errors can also be awarded to hits that fall between two outfielders thinking the other is going to catch the ball and other plays as well.
But fighting traditional scorekeeping in baseball is a tough roe to hoe.

DOUGHBOYS wrote:Yes, it is.
The same thing could have happened to Boggs yesterday when Molina chose to go after a runner going from second to third on a bunt rather than the easy play at first base.
Pitchers E.R.A.'s are enslaved to bad choices by their fielders.

For year's, scorekeepers have wanted the freedom to award a 'team error' in order to bring more reality to baseball scoring and to a pitcher's E.R.A.
In both cases, a team error could have been charged to the 'Fielder's choice' team, not to the fielder himself.
Team errors can also be awarded to hits that fall between two outfielders thinking the other is going to catch the ball and other plays as well.
But fighting traditional scorekeeping in baseball is a tough roe to hoe.

I was afraid that was the case ...
Lincecum ERA 8.18
Lincecum ERA 3.27 - without stupid fielder play

DOUGHBOYS wrote:Yes, it is.
The same thing could have happened to Boggs yesterday when Molina chose to go after a runner going from second to third on a bunt rather than the easy play at first base.
Pitchers E.R.A.'s are enslaved to bad choices by their fielders.

For year's, scorekeepers have wanted the freedom to award a 'team error' in order to bring more reality to baseball scoring and to a pitcher's E.R.A.
In both cases, a team error could have been charged to the 'Fielder's choice' team, not to the fielder himself.
Team errors can also be awarded to hits that fall between two outfielders thinking the other is going to catch the ball and other plays as well.
But fighting traditional scorekeeping in baseball is a tough roe to hoe.

There are a large number of scorekeepers who are fighting for the ability to score a Team Error ... we'll see how long it takes but at least now MLB is discussing it.

Thus, on a routine play in which someone should've been out, no out was recorded and all runs in the innings were earned because of it.

It must not have been a routine play, otherwise the scorer would have simply awarded an error. When that is called it's usually because a player makes and ill-advised throw trying to get a guy who was going to be safe anyway.

Rule 10.16 states:

No run shall be earned when the scoring runner's advance has been aided by an error, a passed ball or defensive interference or obstruction, if in the official scorer's judgment the run would not have scored without the aid of such misplay.

When players advance due to an error the runs are usually still called earned if the subsequent hitters get hits or put balls in play that would have scored those runners absent the error. Since Timmy got hit hard afterward, the scorer ruled those runs would have scored anyway.

In this case it doesn't sound like a team error particularly (best example of that is when three infielders converge and let a pop up drop untouched). It sounds like a bad decision that temporarily advanced runners but did not ultimately impact the game because of the roughing up that followed.

The runner advanced but they did not score until after two were out - advancement on the throwing error was irrelevant, but not getting the out was 100% relevant as none would have scored if an out was recorded.

A team error can also be used on a fielder's choice, Steve.
It would encompass some 'mental' mistakes which some fielder's choices are.
In this case, the runner had already achieved second base when the errant throw allowed him another base. The error becomes irrelelevant in terms of earned runs as batter after batter reach safely following the one base advancment.
The ball dropping between two outfielders is a form of 'mental mistake' in that each could have caught the ball, but thinking the other would grab it.

Just one more addendum-
If I have a pet peeve about baseball rules, it is that we cannot assume a double play.
What? Why?
Just because an out is in the books on the play?
That's Stupid!
If a pitcher induces a double play ball with runners on first and third and one out and the throw by the second baseman beats the runner, but one hops the first baseman, why can't I give him an error?
It would be an error in any other circumstance.
And the pitcher gets penalized in E.R.A. for doing his job. It's a stupid rule and would be one of the first things fixed with a team error for me.
Ok, stepping down from the soap box.

DOUGHBOYS wrote:A team error can also be used on a fielder's choice, Steve.
It would encompass some 'mental' mistakes which some fielder's choices are.
In this case, the runner had already achieved second base when the errant throw allowed him another base. The error becomes irrelelevant in terms of earned runs as batter after batter reach safely following the one base advancment.
The ball dropping between two outfielders is a form of 'mental mistake' in that each could have caught the ball, but thinking the other would grab it.

Agreed. The key thing to know here, is did the infielder have a chance to make a put out at at different base. I'll see if I can look in the game log and determined what happened. The two relevant rules are:

10.05.a.6: The official scorer shall credit a batter with a base hit when: a fielder unsuccessfully attempts to put out a preceding runner and, in the official scorer’s judgment, the batter-runner would not have been put out at first base by ordinary effort.

10.5.b.4: The official scorer shall not credit a base hit when a: fielder fails in an attempt to put out a preceding runner and, in the scorer’s judgment, the batter-runner could have been put out at first base;

If the scoring in this case was a hit and a fielder's choice, then the argument that the runs could be unearned is not as good. If the ruling was fielder's choice without the hit, then a team error would be relevant.

Scutaro threw the ball away trying to go to second, Cuddyer was not awarded a hit. I don't see this as a team error, but a mental error (compounded by a throwing error) by Scutaro going to the wrong base --- so this is a bit different than a team error type situation of two fielders expecting the other to catch it. Likewise, unlike that situation, no hit is awarded which makes me think this is a simpler rule fix that should state these runs be unearned since there was an at bat, and as the fielder's choice scoring indicates, an expected out which did not take place.

Tim Lincecum pitching:
Troy Tulowitzki : Ball, Ball, Ball, Tulowitzki walked.
Michael Cuddyer : Pickoff attempt to first, Foul, Cuddyer reached on fielder's choice to second, Tulowitzki to third on 2nd baseman Scutaro throwing error.
Todd Helton : Helton grounded out to shortstop, Tulowitzki scored, Cuddyer to second.
Wilin Rosario : Ball, Ball, Strike swinging, Ball, Rosario walked.
Chris Nelson : Strike looking, Foul, Nelson struck out swinging.
Juan Nicasio : Ball, Cuddyer to third on wild pitch, Strike looking, Strike swinging, Ball, Ball, Nicasio walked, Rosario to second.
Dexter Fowler : Fowler doubled to right, Cuddyer and Rosario scored, Nicasio to third.
Josh Rutledge : Ball, Strike swinging, Foul, Ball, Foul, Rutledge singled to center, Nicasio and Fowler scored.
Carlos Gonzalez : Ball, Strike looking, Pickoff attempt to first, Pickoff attempt to first, Ball, Gonzalez flied out to left.
End of Inning (5 Runs, 2 Hits, 1 Error)

Then yeah, Timmy got hosed (as did you). Bummer.

Baseball like golf has a lot of mystifying rule executions and interpretations. My favorite is the Pitcher who pitches 8 shutout innings and leaves with a lead only to have someone come in behind him and pitch an inning or less, give up the lead and then get the W.

They give official scorers latitude in some area's and not others. Why do they not award the the W to the most deserving pitcher?

Hit a batter and it doesn't count against your WHIP. What genius thought that one up?

Money wrote:Hit a batter and it doesn't count against your WHIP. What genius thought that one up?

I started playing back in '84 when the original rotissarie baseball book came out (fantastic book in so many ways). Back then we used to have to get the Sporting News through the U.S. mail in order to keep stats. It was literally the only place in America where on could see aggregated stats on a weekly basis that include everything you needed. Remember the old Sunday Sports pages where they listed all the averages? Didn't have enough information to do roto stats.

There were 10 of us and we all did our own stats by hand on paper every week. Then we submitted them to the commish who aggregated them into standings (usually only every other week) after QA'ing them. I seem to remember that the Sporting News didn't have pitchers HBP as a stat column. Either that or the founding fathers left it out of WHIP just for the sake of not having another number to collate.

Money wrote:Baseball like golf has a lot of mystifying rule executions and interpretations. My favorite is the Pitcher who pitches 8 shutout innings and leaves with a lead only to have someone come in behind him and pitch an inning or less, give up the lead and then get the W.

They give official scorers latitude in some area's and not others. Why do they not award the the W to the most deserving pitcher?

So many fantasy teams across America now. Can you imagine the pressure on the scorekeeper if it weren't already cut and dry?
What if the official scorer for a Detroit game had Verlander on his fantasy team and the Closer on a rival?
He would always error towards Verlander in any decision.
Trust me, the way it is now is better than letting one person decide who gets the scraps from the dinner table.

DOUGHBOYS wrote:

Money wrote:Baseball like golf has a lot of mystifying rule executions and interpretations. My favorite is the Pitcher who pitches 8 shutout innings and leaves with a lead only to have someone come in behind him and pitch an inning or less, give up the lead and then get the W.

They give official scorers latitude in some area's and not others. Why do they not award the the W to the most deserving pitcher?

So many fantasy teams across America now. Can you imagine the pressure on the scorekeeper if it weren't already cut and dry?
What if the official scorer for a Detroit game had Verlander on his fantasy team and the Closer on a rival?
He would always error towards Verlander in any decision.
Trust me, the way it is now is better than letting one person decide who gets the scraps from the dinner table.

I hear ya Dan. I was thinking of the specific instance when a pitcher enters the game in the 9th with a lead and gives it up, he is not eligible for the win that occurs, that's all. I realize it will never change, just been a peeve of mine for a while.

And here is part two of Week Two Stuff....

It is never a good thing when John Buck has more homers (6) than your team.
John Buck has more homers than Tampa (5), Kansas City (4) and Miami (2)....yes, you read that right, 2.

Worse....maybe....Buck has just three less rbi than the entire Marlins squad....
That's a little unfair to Buck though since he got rained out on Monday while the Marlins played.

Does Mario Mendoza reside in Florida?
If so, he has two teams that would fit his M.O.....
Tampa is hitting .205, Miami .203...
And DisneyWorld will draw more folks than both franchises....
And why not? Snow White has more power than both of those clubs.

This has nothing to do with stuff, but what the heck....
A biographer found out that Yogi Berra had dinner with Joe DiMaggio and Marilyn Monroe in the days leading to Miss Monroe's untimely death.
He tracked down Berra and set up a one on one interview. When the interview started he asked Yogi to remember everything about that dinner. The place, the food, the conversation, EVERYTHING.
You could imagine the writer's disappointment when Yogi answered that he only remembered one thing.
Here was his recollection....
"You know those shrimp cocktails? They'd give you five big shrimp in that sauce. I think it was because who I was with, but that night, they gave us EIGHT!"
And that was the extent of Yogi's remembrence....

Tim Hudson's ERA is 2.50....
Good for fourth best among Atlanta's five Starters.....

Justin Upton has seven homers.....
As does one Main Event team.


Miami is the only team that still does not have a Save this year....
Yes, they have as many Saves as firefighters in Atlantis.

10 NFBC Main teams are also without a Save....

The good news?
Milwaukee, your pitchers have given up a baseball low of just 25 bases on balls this year.
The bad news?
Milwaukee, opposing hitters are loving what you're putting across the plate. Giving up a Major League high batting average of .299

The Dodgers and Orioles have allowed just one steal this year,nailing five of six base stealers....
The Cubs have allowed 14 thefts already.

Joey Votto has drawn 21 bases on balls this year....
The Chicago White Sox have 18.

In 13 games, the Astros have struck out 129 times....
And opposing pitchers know their good luck in facing them...
Not one Astro has been hit by a pitch this year.

If rostering only the pitchers that have faced the Houston Astros, you would rank 17th overall in Strike outs in the Main Event....

So Houston strikes out a lot and doesn't get hit by pitches...
That's not so bad...
Oh....They also have the least amount of stolen bases this year....One.

The good news here for Houston is that with all the strike outs and fewer base runners...
They are last in the league in grounding into double plays....you go Astros!

Cleveland is the only team that has not used a pinch hitter this year...
The Marlins have already used 14...
Not surprisingly, Marlins pinch hitters lead Cleveland in pinch hits...
1-0.

Dodger pitchers have only hit two batter(s) this year.....
How does that make you feel, Mr. Quentin?

Tigers defense is criticized for their lack of range....
Which poses this question....
Is it better to have little range and make one error all year like the Tigers...
Or is it better to have gazelles in the outfield and more range on the infield and make 12 errors like the Angels?

The Detroit Tigers are batting .307....
Extraordinary, right?
'Hoosiers' from New York, League three is leading the NFBC with a .308 batting average.

And next week will be better than this week.......

The Detroit Tigers are batting .307....
Extraordinary, right?
'Hoosiers' from New York, League three is leading the NFBC with a .308 batting average.

Damn, I thought about trying to roster the entire Detroit lineup. It would've been possible only if Fielder slid way into the second round. I can dream....