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I like to think about real baseball teams in fantasy terms.
Most of us have had different fantasy teams. Teams that are so offensively loaded that we don't know who to start each week. Teams that are set and we can spend a minute on the lineup and be ready. Teams that are slim and we're starting players and praying they start.

For the teams that are set, I look at the Washington Nationals

C- Ramos
1B- Zimmerman
2B- Escobar
3B- Rendon
SS- Desmond
OF- Harper
OF- Span
OF- Werth

A trade or injury is the only thing that messes with this lineup. Right now, Werth is a little bit of a concern, so there is interest in Michael Taylor, but if Werth is ready, Taylor sits.
But fantasy-wise, this is a lineup that wouldn't take much time for us to throw players out, even with the deadline just minutes away.

The Braves are the team that we don't want. We are going to be FAABing a lot if we have a lineup like the Braves...

C- Bethancourt....maybe...Might be Pierzynski...maybe both
1B-Freeman
2B- Callaspo....maybe Gosselin...then Perazo
3B- Johnson....only because they haven't found a taker. Kelly Johnson if they do
SS- Simmons....old scout term, 'Good Field, no hit'
OF- Upton...Melvin, not BJ....No matter the name, no warm, cozy feeling
OF- Almonte, Gomes, Yong....Pick your poison...No really, pick your poison
OF- Markakis.... He brings in Greek fans from the Tri County area

Look at that lineup! If that were my fantasy lineup, I would have a hard time even playing out the string trying to avoid last place.
Freeman is a top 3 round hitter in a normal lineup.
In this lineup, you won't believe this, but I would rather roster Joey Votto.
I'm serious.
Freeman is apt to do two things in this lineup.
He is either going to walk like Votto and hardly ever score with the patheticism (yep, new word, what of it!?) of the Braves lineup.
OR, he will start swinging at pitches out of the zone. Freeman is not a voracious power hitter to begin with and swinging at pitches that are outside the zone will only toy with his Average.
Really, Freeman is the only hitter that will be taken in the first 18 rounds of most drafts.
Patheticism? Oh yeah!

Now, for the fun team. The team that is loaded and we don't know who to start.
Or even, where to start them.
The Boston Red Sox.
I can list their lineup, but that would just start arguments as to what will really be their lineup.
So, we'll just look at everybody.

At Catcher we have their weakness...so far.
We don't know what to expect from Vazquez. We just know that he has first dibs at the position.
Hanigan backs him up or starts if Vazquez fails.
Then they have Swihart coming up to be a force. Vazquez and Swihart are being taken before some Atlanta regulars.
That, that says a lot about both situations.

First base- We have slack jawed, hidden by beardom, Mike Napoli...and Allen Craig...and possibly Pablo Sandoval.
Napoli has been a fifth rounder in the past as a catcher, then 10th round as a good hitting 1B. And now later as an injury risk with power. Craig has just become a plain injury risk. Sandoval gets moved to first if shit happens.
And shit happens.
If Hanley can't make the switch to LF or gets pissed or does something Hanley-like, he could end up back on the infield.
If Bogaerts is hitting, it could mean Sandoval going to First base.

Second Base- Pedey....But he gets hurt....a lot. So what do the Red Sox do if Pedroia gets hurt this year.
Easy.
Mookie Betts. Their outfield is relieved and Betts goes back to a position he knows well.

Third Base- The Red Sox would love to have Sandoval stay here for the length of his contract. That ain't going to happen. Sandoval is a first baseman playing third base. He still fields well there now, but weight and gravity is quickly working against him.
Hanley could be the third baseman if shit happens.
And shit happens.

Shortstop- The Red Sox, more than anything need Xander Bogaerts to hit. He is the one guy that they really need to keep his position. Hanley plays a crappy shortstop and the Red Sox can withstand a few weeks or even a month of Hanley there. But any more would be a large risk.
And then, Yoan Moncada is coming...but that is down the road. He is like having the best keeper in a keeper league. The red Sox really do have an Overall great fantasy team here....offensively.

Outfield- Everybody loves talking about the Red Sox outfield. First, forget Jackie Bradley Jr. Either minor leagues or trade bait. Leave the great fielding center fielder that probably won't hit to the Mets with Lagares. The Red Sox are better than that and want a hitter at every position.
Allen Craig? No. He becomes Jonny Gomes if kept. Only seeing time against lefties if not traded.
Nava and Holt are insurance or trade bait.
That leaves Rusney Castillo, Mookie Betts, Hanley Ramirez, and Shane Victorino.

If I'm the Boston Manager, I'm rolling my eyes at the folks questioning who doesn't start.
Victoino is probably going to miss two starts a week because of 'rest'.
Ramirez needs a blow more than others, if only because he thinks he is a Superstar.
Castillo plays full throttle and needs a once a week rest.
Already that is four starts for Betts...AND NOBODY HAS EVEN GOTTEN HURT YET!
And shit happens.
They will get hurt.
To me, there is no question as to who will be in that outfield.
The four of them, till there is three. And that won't take long.

All in all, it's a HELLUVA lot more fun being the Red Sox over the Braves and even the Nats for me.
The Red Sox are now like a fantasy team drafted by a lot of industry experts. Heavy on the hitting and hope for the best from their pitching. Fantasy art resembling real Life.
Who knew?

Dan, Dan, Dan.

The Red Sox only are more fun for you than the Nationals if you are setting half of your fantasy starting lineup and punting the five pitching categories. Now, if you're trying to win with either team, let's look at the other five categories:

Nationals Starting Rotation (in some order):
Scherzer
Strasburg
Zimmermann
Fister
Gonzalez

with a not-too-shabby Roark as the 6th starter. (Also, let's not forget all those divisional games against the Braves, Marlins, Mets and Phillies.)

Now, in comparison ...

Red Sox Starting Rotation (in some order):
Porcello
Miley
Masterson
Buchholz
Kelly

Yuck! If Roark - the Nationals' sixth SP - was assured of 25-30 starts, I'd pick him over all of the Red Sox's starters.

Closers (and backup) - Storen and Janssen for the Nationals and Uehara and Tazawa for the Red Sox - we'll call that a push, but only due to some uncertainty about Uehara health-wise; otherwise, I'll give the Sox the edge at closer.

Rolling out a fantasy pitching staff like what the Nationals have today, now that would be fun.

Mike

Well, well, well .... wouldn't this make for an interesting league !!!

• Fifteen fantasy owners acquire 1 NL and 1 AL club in a 2-round snake draft, paying their teams' actual payroll in contract league dollar terms as the entry fee
• Each fantasy team would consist of 30 players from those 2 clubs in any combination you like
• FAAB any player each week for $1 if they are on one of your two teams (no one else can pick them up)
• If a player is traded or cut you must drop him next period and he's an eligible add by his new team in the next FAAB
• Standard 5x5 NFBC scoring paying the top 3 teams, so the only "management" would be lineup decisions, non-competitive add/drops for your "active" roster, and which MLB teams' players you want to align your fortunes with

I was only going with the offensive side, Mike. But you're right. let's take a look at the pitching side of things.
Who in baseball has Braves offensive quality in their pitching staff.
The answer has to be the Colorado Rockies.
No Rockies pitchers are taken in the first 20 rounds.
Most established Closers, if we can call LaTroy Hawkins 'established' are all gobbled up a lot earlier.
Hawkins, due to age, past, ball park, pick any is not trusted.
Jorge DeLaRosa is the Rockies 'Ace'.
This is like your best baseball card being Felix Mantilla.
The Rockies also have a staff of crap with Chacin, Lyles, Matzek and whatever else doesn't wither in high altitude. Also there is Eddie Butler and Jon Gray. Who give them hope (good luck with that)
They also signed Kyle Kendrick and John Axford, two of the most hittable pitchers in baseball over the past couple of years.
The Rockies can really and would just be better off by putting a pitching machine on their mound and spend money on more hitting this year.

Washington again, has the team that is set. And that's a helluva good indication of a team when being 'set' both offesively and on the mound.
They have Max Scherzer heading their staff. With Steven Strasburg, Jordan Zimmerman, Doug Fister, and Gio Gonzalez rounding it out. And with an injury, Tanner Roark is there to fill in. They also have Drew Storen at the back end. Storen is a hopeful late bloomer. Somebody who has not lived up to hype until the season got underway last year.
The Nationals look darn good on the mound.

For decisions and an overload, it is the New York Mets.
The problem for the Mets is that they don't know which prospect will be better than the other. Is Montero good enough to start in the Majors?
He really wasn't last year, so he gets knocked down a peg.
Syndergaard wasn't dominating last year, but still had good peripherals.
What do you do with him?
I think they'll let Spring Training answer that question.
Matz, how good is he?
Who knows.
Then, they have average pitchers like Niese, Colon, Gee who all have to feel like those kids will probably take their jobs if not traded this year.
And I haven't even reached the top tier with Harvey, deGrom, and Wheeler.
These guys can throw their asses off. Not in a literal sense, that would be a vision I'd sooner not see.
So, in the end, the Mets have three damned good pitchers, three average pitchers, and three pitchers who will test their stuff in the Majors soon.
The Mets bullpen also have choices.
Believe in Mejia?
Believe in Parnell?
Believe in Familia?
Vic Black?
Personally, I haven't drafted any of them in 15 drafts this year.
But folks do.
Picking which one will flourish and who will fail is too tough of a task for me.
What they are missing for all these pitchers, are plus defenders.
Their plus defenders number two. Lagares and Wright.
Beside them, they are stuck with Duda, Murphy, Flores, Cuddyer, and Granderson.
Pretty bad.
With so many youngsters looking like they'll be throwing for the Mets for a long time, it would behoove them to think defense first, offense second when finding their 'real' shortstop.
All in all though, a bunch of kids that Mets fans can look forward to seeing.

KJ Duke wrote:Well, well, well .... wouldn't this make for an interesting league !!!

• Fifteen fantasy owners acquire 1 NL and 1 AL club in a 2-round snake draft, paying their teams' actual payroll in contract league dollar terms as the entry fee
• Each fantasy team would consist of 30 players from those 2 clubs in any combination you like
• FAAB any player each week for $1 if they are on one of your two teams (no one else can pick them up)
• If a player is traded or cut you must drop him next period and he's an eligible add by his new team in the next FAAB
• Standard 5x5 NFBC scoring paying the top 3 teams, so the only "management" would be lineup decisions, non-competitive add/drops for your "active" roster, and which MLB teams' players you want to align your fortunes with

Hmmm, I like that idea.
Or maybe a 15 team draft consisting of four rounds.
Offensive and pitching teams are selected and we use those stats as 'ours'.
If only there was an ingenius mind to run such leagues

Edit: I'm guessing in some leagues that Rockies hitters could be first, pitching last.

KJ Duke wrote:Well, well, well .... wouldn't this make for an interesting league !!!

• Fifteen fantasy owners acquire 1 NL and 1 AL club in a 2-round snake draft, paying their teams' actual payroll in contract league dollar terms as the entry fee
• Each fantasy team would consist of 30 players from those 2 clubs in any combination you like
• FAAB any player each week for $1 if they are on one of your two teams (no one else can pick them up)
• If a player is traded or cut you must drop him next period and he's an eligible add by his new team in the next FAAB
• Standard 5x5 NFBC scoring paying the top 3 teams, so the only "management" would be lineup decisions, non-competitive add/drops for your "active" roster, and which MLB teams' players you want to align your fortunes with

The league creator strikes again!

Definitely has potential. Another way to possibly make it more even interesting would be to turn the draft from 2 rounds to 4 rounds and separate hitters from pitchers. This way, each team would own two pitching staffs and two groups of hitters, but not necessarily from the same team. It would create some interesting strategies. For instance, the first team might want to grab the Red Sox or Rockies hitters, but, if they did, they would have to go pitching in Rounds 2 AND 3 otherwise they run the risk of being stuck with the Rockies' pitching staff with the last pick (or perhaps the Braves' hitters would be last, hmmm). Another possible improvement would be too limit the FAAB spending and then have owners bid FAAB for draft slots (if they bid too much, they may run out of FAAB money midseason). Finally, I'd keep the entry fee to $150 for the first year for all those NFBC'ers who might be interested in participating but who already have over-extended themselves this drafting season!

Mike

Yes, if we did 4 rounds we could simplify this to a flat-fee entry. I think standard KDS works since the top teams will get STUCK with shitty players at the end. It then works as a $250 satellite league with no intervention from Greg/IT needed.

The only tricky part is working out player traded/signed cutoff around FAAB periods, but that's not too tough just have to have something definitive.

DOUGHBOYS wrote:

KJ Duke wrote:Well, well, well .... wouldn't this make for an interesting league !!!

• Fifteen fantasy owners acquire 1 NL and 1 AL club in a 2-round snake draft, paying their teams' actual payroll in contract league dollar terms as the entry fee
• Each fantasy team would consist of 30 players from those 2 clubs in any combination you like
• FAAB any player each week for $1 if they are on one of your two teams (no one else can pick them up)
• If a player is traded or cut you must drop him next period and he's an eligible add by his new team in the next FAAB
• Standard 5x5 NFBC scoring paying the top 3 teams, so the only "management" would be lineup decisions, non-competitive add/drops for your "active" roster, and which MLB teams' players you want to align your fortunes with

Hmmm, I like that idea.
Or maybe a 15 team draft consisting of four rounds.
Offensive and pitching teams are selected and we use those stats as 'ours'.
If only there was an ingenius mind to run such leagues

Edit: I'm guessing in some leagues that Rockies hitters could be first, pitching last.

Wow, Dan. I did not see your reply to KJ when I was drafting mine. Great minds think alike.

Mike

KJ Duke wrote:Yes, if we did 4 rounds we could simplify this to a flat-fee entry. I think standard KDS works since the top teams will get STUCK with shitty players at the end. It then works as a $250 satellite league with no intervention from Greg/IT needed.

The only tricky part is working out player traded/signed cutoff around FAAB periods, but that's not too tough just have to have something definitive.

Could be tricky for IT....
How about no FAAB?
For instance, I draft the White Sox offense and Cubs pitching.
My roster grows with the use at the Major League level of any player.
I start the year with 13 White Sox hitters, 12 Cubs pitchers.
As players are called up from the minors or traded to the White Sox offense, my roster grows.
When these injured or minor league-sent players come back, they are already a part of our roster.
Not to exceed a maximum of 50 players.
This would insure a full roster for all and injuries would not be a penalty, unless going from great player to bad.
At the least, there would be no zeroes.
Same with pitching. If Jon Lester and Rondon have Tommy John, they are replaced by callups from the Cubs.
Less in-season Management because it is done for us.

DOUGHBOYS wrote:

KJ Duke wrote:Yes, if we did 4 rounds we could simplify this to a flat-fee entry. I think standard KDS works since the top teams will get STUCK with shitty players at the end. It then works as a $250 satellite league with no intervention from Greg/IT needed.

The only tricky part is working out player traded/signed cutoff around FAAB periods, but that's not too tough just have to have something definitive.

Could be tricky for IT....
How about no FAAB?
For instance, I draft the White Sox offense and Cubs pitching.
My roster grows with the use at the Major League level of any player.
I start the year with 13 White Sox hitters, 12 Cubs pitchers.
As players are called up from the minors or traded to the White Sox offense, my roster grows.
Not to exceed a maximum of 50 players.
This would insure a full roster for all and injuries would not be a penalty, unless going from great player to bad.
At the least, there would be no zeroes.
Same with pitching. If Jon Lester and Rondon have Tommy John, they are replaced by callups from the Cubs.
Less in-season Management because it is done for us.

I think we keep faab because then we have built-in injury replacements. FAAB won't take much time since it is the equivalent of deciding which players to call up for the week ahead on Sunday.

We'd never need IT so long as people don't SCREW-UP their bidding and take guys from other teams ... maybe we'd just need an IQ test to qualify for the league.

KJ Duke wrote:Yes, if we did 4 rounds we could simplify this to a flat-fee entry. I think standard KDS works since the top teams will get STUCK with shitty players at the end. It then works as a $250 satellite league with no intervention from Greg/IT needed.

The only tricky part is working out player traded/signed cutoff around FAAB periods, but that's not too tough just have to have something definitive.

If we do standard KDS, then FAAB is pretty simple, I think. Once the four-round draft is completed, we could do a 30-round draft, fast or slow, where each owner would be limited to selecting their 30 players from their four half-teams. In terms of players being traded, etc., we probably could do it with 15 cooperating owners without NFBC intervention, but there would be a delay. For instance, I own the Phillies pitching staff. On some Wednesday in June, Cole Hamels gets traded to the Red Sox. I would be required to drop Cole Hamels during that Sunday FAAB. The owner of the Red Sox pitching staff then could win Hamels through FAAB for $1 the following Sunday.

I think the only other way to do it would require the NFBC to move players around once they changed teams, etc. The league could do this on its own, but there would be a one-week delay between a traded player coming off his original team and then joining his new team. Still, given that the rule would apply equally to all owners, it seems fair even if not perfectly ideal.

Is this along the lines of what you were thinking or am I confusing things?

Mike

Bronx Yankees wrote: If we do standard KDS, then FAAB is pretty simple, I think. Once the four-round draft is completed, we could do a 30-round draft, fast or slow, where each owner would be limited to selecting their 30 players from their four half-teams. In terms of players being traded, etc., we probably could do it with 15 cooperating owners without NFBC intervention, but there would be a delay. For instance, I own the Phillies pitching staff. On some Wednesday in June, Cole Hamels gets traded to the Red Sox. I would be required to drop Cole Hamels during that Sunday FAAB. The owner of the Red Sox pitching staff then could win Hamels through FAAB for $1 the following Sunday.

I think the only other way to do it would require the NFBC to move players around once they changed teams, etc. The league could do this on its own, but there would be a one-week delay between a traded player coming off his original team and then joining his new team. Still, given that the rule would apply equally to all owners, it seems fair even if not perfectly ideal.

Is this along the lines of what you were thinking or am I confusing things?

Mike

I see this as a 30-player slow draft satellite. We don't even need to select teams ahead of time ... when you're on the clock simply pick a player from an offense or a pitching staff that hasn't yet been selected and all of those related players become yours only to draft at that point ... imagine the suspense ... getting sniped not just on one player, but on a dozen at once! The 30 rounds would be to establish your first 30 players, then swaps could be made beginning with the first faab period.

For players changing teams there would have to be a cutoff time for the official transaction, such as Saturday night before each FAAB period if a rostered player is traded or cut you must drop them on Sunday. The following Sunday the new team could sign them. It would require diligence to avoid having Greg intercede with clean-up transactions for those who fall asleep at the wheel. Alternatively, we could allow owners to keep traded players, and they would only become available if the original owner decided to drop them. [EDIT, we'll do this to avoid potential transaction problems in-season].

I'm not gonna be around for the next 5 hours, and I know your leagues fill up fast.

I'd be in for a satellite priced league like this, whatever the final format.....

I wasnt going to do another draft until LV, but this could be a fun way to test out the new draft room. I'll set-up a new thread for signup and see if there's enough interest. Russel is on the list.