Gekko - Fireside Chat_-_CATCHERS

[JohnZ]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by bjoak:

Ouch! Gekko's been waiting a long time to unleash that one. Can't see why a guy would have a BA 50 points higher because of where he is in the order. funny stuff eh bjoak!!! i see him play all the time and he's gonna hit .238!!!! ROFLMAO



the best thing is that in 2004 figgins hit out of the #1 hole 115 times and the #2 hole 288 times!!!! john musta been sleeping at the games!! [/QUOTE]not that pre-season when he hit 8th and 9th until about 5 days after the post. My post had nothing to do with 2004.

[Gordon Gekko]

Originally posted by Kimo:

Scioscia, wants to control the running game, last year the Angels were very poor at opponents SB 107. Scioscia also used the pitchout alot last year 44. I think Scioscia has bit more trust in Napoli than Mathis..

. kimo - i wasn't expecting to bring out the big guns, but since you alluded to it...

% of base runners cauht stealing...

Mike Napoli, LAA 23.4%

Jeff Mathis, LAA 16.7%



sometimes it pays to do your homework. good job kimo!

[JohnZ]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Kimo:

Scioscia, wants to control the running game, last year the Angels were very poor at opponents SB 107. Scioscia also used the pitchout alot last year 44. I think Scioscia has bit more trust in Napoli than Mathis..

. kimo - i wasn't expecting to bring out the big guns, but since you alluded to it...

% of base runners cauht stealing...

Mike Napoli, LAA 23.4%

Jeff Mathis, LAA 16.7%





sometimes it pays to do your homework. good job kimo! [/QUOTE]GG, you really need to go into politics...



This isn't something to crow about.



Mathis = 40 SB in 467 INN caught 1/11.67

Napoli = 49 SB in 598 INN caught 1/12.20



Catcher ERA 2007

Mathis 3.89

Napoli 4.28



Only 6 catchers with more INN caught had a better CERA



And sometimes you need to finish your homework



[ January 01, 2008, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: UFS ]

[Kimo]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Kimo:

Scioscia, wants to control the running game, last year the Angels were very poor at opponents SB 107. Scioscia also used the pitchout alot last year 44. I think Scioscia has bit more trust in Napoli than Mathis..

. kimo - i wasn't expecting to bring out the big guns, but since you alluded to it...

% of base runners cauht stealing...

Mike Napoli, LAA 23.4%

Jeff Mathis, LAA 16.7%



sometimes it pays to do your homework. good job

kimo! [/QUOTE]2006 Napoli Fielding Stats.



SB 38

CS 17



Angels also only used the pitchout 22 times in 2006.



I think Napoli was hurt last year and teams ran alot on the Angels.. Time will tell if his 2006 fielding stats were a fluke or not.

[Gordon Gekko]

Originally posted by UFS:

GG, you really need to go into politics...



This isn't something to crow about.



Mathis = 40 SB in 467 INN caught 1/11.67

Napoli = 49 SB in 598 INN caught 1/12.20



Catcher ERA 2007

Mathis 3.89

Napoli 4.28



And sometimes you need to finish your homework john - last i knew throwing out 23% was better than 16%, but don't let facts get in the way. question - if mathis leads off for the angels will you bump up his batting average 50 points?

[JohnZ]

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

GG, you really need to go into politics...



This isn't something to crow about.



Mathis = 40 SB in 467 INN caught 1/11.67

Napoli = 49 SB in 598 INN caught 1/12.20



Catcher ERA 2007

Mathis 3.89

Napoli 4.28



And sometimes you need to finish your homework john - last i knew throwing out 23% was better than 16%, but don't let facts get in the way. question - if mathis leads off for the angels will you bump up his batting average 50 points? [/QUOTE]What does it matter when they give up the same amount of SB's per Inning played?



More attempts vs Napoli per inning played, which means the opposition is running on him more than Mathis. I can play "twist the stats" too.



[ January 01, 2008, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: UFS ]

[JohnZ]

Originally posted by Kimo:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Kimo:

Scioscia, wants to control the running game, last year the Angels were very poor at opponents SB 107. Scioscia also used the pitchout alot last year 44. I think Scioscia has bit more trust in Napoli than Mathis..

. kimo - i wasn't expecting to bring out the big guns, but since you alluded to it...

% of base runners cauht stealing...

Mike Napoli, LAA 23.4%

Jeff Mathis, LAA 16.7%



sometimes it pays to do your homework. good job

kimo! [/QUOTE]2006 Napoli Fielding Stats.



SB 38

CS 17



Angels also only used the pitchout 22 times in 2006.



I think Napoli was hurt last year and teams ran alot on the Angels.. Time will tell if his 2006 fielding stats were a fluke or not. [/QUOTE]2006 stats mean nothing right now. Molina had more of an effect on those stats IMO.

[ToddZ]

I've got Napoli for about 420 AB with about 200 for Mathis.



An since you asked so nicely GG, Towles .282-12-60-7-57



[ January 01, 2008, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: ToddZ ]

[Chest Rockwell]

Used to take what Perry said about the Dbacks, bjoak about the A's, Zaleski about the Angels, and Sambito about the Bosox to heart.



Note to self remove Zaleski from that list.

[JohnZ]

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

Used to take what Perry said about the Dbacks, bjoak about the A's, Zaleski about the Angels, and Sambito about the Bosox to heart.



Note to self remove Zaleski from that list. Hey Chestnutsack, you're still on the ego larger than GG list



[ January 01, 2008, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: UFS ]

[Plymouth]

I don't always agree with what you have to say Gordon but I always appreciate you getting baseball discussions moving here on the boards. The discussions often cause me to go back and look at my projections from a different perspective, it doesn't mean I change them very often but it is always good to hear the other opinions out there and what the impacts might be on the ADP. Keep up the good work.



Its like a number of others have said on these boards frequently, there is much to learn on these boards but you have to have a strong filter to bypass the misinformation that gets passed on here.

[Chest Rockwell]

Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

Used to take what Perry said about the Dbacks, bjoak about the A's, Zaleski about the Angels, and Sambito about the Bosox to heart.



Note to self remove Zaleski from that list. Hey Chestnutsack, you're still on the ego larger than GG list [/QUOTE]Oh John I am in a good mood cuz my dawgs are wippin Hawaii- so I will not talk about how we all get a kick out of you thinking you have the perfect team every year and tell everyone about it and then get waxed. Beat me at something John 0-2 head to head, and 0-3 in the main- and my napkin math says it has never been close. You do wonders for my ego...

[Vander]

Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Kimo:

Scioscia, wants to control the running game, last year the Angels were very poor at opponents SB 107. Scioscia also used the pitchout alot last year 44. I think Scioscia has bit more trust in Napoli than Mathis..

. kimo - i wasn't expecting to bring out the big guns, but since you alluded to it...

% of base runners cauht stealing...

Mike Napoli, LAA 23.4%

Jeff Mathis, LAA 16.7%





sometimes it pays to do your homework. good job kimo! [/QUOTE]GG, you really need to go into politics...



This isn't something to crow about.



Mathis = 40 SB in 467 INN caught 1/11.67

Napoli = 49 SB in 598 INN caught 1/12.20



Catcher ERA 2007

Mathis 3.89

Napoli 4.28



Only 6 catchers with more INN caught had a better CERA



And sometimes you need to finish your homework [/QUOTE]I don't mean to heap on or get in this at all. I just wanted to point out that Napoli probably caught, but likly was not responcible for some of E. Santana's blow ups, while Mathis did most of the catching when Santana got sent down. As you point out in a later post stats can be decieving and/or manipulated as desired. I too trust my eyes as much as stats.

[Vander]

BTW nice thread GG. I think this is just the kind of stuff Greg really would like a content panel to do. I agree with at least some of the stuff you've provided. I won't say which stuff. I hope you don't find more true pearls for public display, giving away the good stuff easy for those who haven't done as much homework.

[baggler]

I know everyone is hot and heavy on the Napoli Mathis stuff but I wanted to go back and touch base about Martin. I personally have V-Mart being the number one catcher in my book.



I know the steals are sexy but I do have a concern and it's Torre. Is he gonna allow his catcher to run as much and where is he gonna put him in the lineup. Until I get more info during spring training you have to rate V-Mart as numero uno especially with his dual eligibility.



I think age has to be a concern with Pudge along with Posada and Varitek , so I agree with GG as a far as Pudge goes.



And as far as sleepers...there are none they have all been bumped up. I rather not take a chance at the C position.... I'd settle for a nice pick like the one of the 4 M's or Johjima.And a solid second C in the teens.

[bjoak]

It'd be hard to argue with a higher ranking for V-Mart. I think he is certainly the more known quantity between the two.

[JohnZ]

Originally posted by Vander:

I don't mean to heap on or get in this at all. I just wanted to point out that Napoli probably caught, but likly was not responcible for some of E. Santana's blow ups, while Mathis did most of the catching when Santana got sent down. As you point out in a later post stats can be decieving and/or manipulated as desired. I too trust my eyes as much as stats. Interesting...



****://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7547/gamelog



9/24 L Napoli 5ip-6er

9/19 W mathis 6.1-1er 10k

9/8 L mathis 5.2-2

9/3 W mathis 6.1-0 2hits

all starts

9/14 mathis 3 hitless innings



Sept ERA was 2.96 with one Napoli game...



ES made 3 August starts. one very bad with Mathis and Budde, one solid with Budde.



All 3 horrific July starts with Jose Molina.



5 June starts... one with Napoli 6.2-4er, four with Jose Molina



In May

29th win Napoli 7ip-1er

24th loss Molina 3.2-8

18th win Napoli 6-1

13 nd Napoli 6-5

8th loss Napoli 7-3

2nd loss Napoli 6.1-3



May-Napoli 32.1-13er



April - Napoli 0-3 14ip-11 er

Molina 2-0



He did OK with Napoli in May, but only had 4 others starts the entire year with him and did terrible with him.



Santana's a bit of a head case IMO, and maybe the loss of Benji Molina had a big effect on him. He did well with Mathis is September, 3 er in 21.1 IP.



Maybe it's because Mathis handles pitchers better than Napoli. LOL. We're probably both right on this to some degree.

[JohnZ]

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

Used to take what Perry said about the Dbacks, bjoak about the A's, Zaleski about the Angels, and Sambito about the Bosox to heart.



Note to self remove Zaleski from that list. Hey Chestnutsack, you're still on the ego larger than GG list [/QUOTE]Oh John I am in a good mood cuz my dawgs are wippin Hawaii- so I will not talk about how we all get a kick out of you thinking you have the perfect team every year and tell everyone about it and then get waxed. Beat me at something John 0-2 head to head, and 0-3 in the main- and my napkin math says it has never been close. You do wonders for my ego... [/QUOTE]Chestnutsack,



LOL.. interesting comments after you initiated two unsolicited PM's with me early last year.



I don't think I can help that ego, honestly, but I will try.



I'll go GG here and post this from 4/11/07....I tried to reply back at the time, but your box was full. Thanks for the other PM thread where we talked #6 and #15 strategy before the season. I took the closer as you said I should.



"Congrats

Chest Rockwell

Member # 322 posted April 11, 2007 08:43 AM Profile for Chest Rockwell On the good strong start..."



BTW, I was in 29th and 3 pts behind Kenyon early August when Bonderman, Bedard, and Shields went south. No shame at all losing to Dan Kenyon.



A complete waxing for sure!!!



To me, we're competing against several hundred of the top owners in the country, and finishing 50th, 150th or 250th is all the same to me. If you don't cash, BFD where you finish. There are many owners much better then I that had crappier seasons. My season clicked well until 8/15. We play until 10/1.



I enjoy NFFC just as much as NFBC, so the second I was out of it, all energies except for lineup changes to stay ahead of Lance went to FB. Had a decent year. Thanks for the help GG and Jules.



Childs, Thomas and Stephenson duo are the only guys I really think are head and shoulders above the rest that I've competed against. GG repeats, I'll put him up there, I know he's working hard for it.



As far as talking after the draft, of course I love it!! I've been conducting drafts since 1984! I love looking at the different boards and strategies. I get my jollies off on that like you do with your put down posts of everyone. You know how brilliant they make you look, right?



I also get valuable info doing this. I told you in my PM I was worried about power out of the 15 hole and after-draft comments backed that up. Jumped all over Braun when he was waived three weeks before call up.



I don't recall posting a ton here last year, but I did just look up the two threads where guys post there teams after the draft... This is all I could really find.. Did I really compliment Bjoak? LOL.



Originally posted by fireballs:

John, love the Sizmore/Rollins combo. Those guys should get over 1200 AB's with serious production. Thanks.. I had decided last Wed that I knew I was going to get Rollins no matter what.



I talked to about 10 owners that had #14/15 last year and this year on Friday and the guys that did well last year all had the same thing in common - Rollins.



Then on draft day, I run into Zola, and he tells me he's taking Rollins at #9, and KJ who says he's taking him at #6. Besides Bjoak, are there any others out there that crunch the numbers harder?



If Sizemore turns his 55 doubles into a few more HR this year, then he's a #5-7 pick next year. [/QB][/quote]


That was a fun thread to read. Some of your comments about H.Ramirez are quite interesting. Luckily, I never made a note to myself to read them when they were written LOL. But let's stop with the hijack of GG's thread.



OK, so I'm in the minority about Mathis and his AB's. Even if I'm wrong, Napoli will not help your BA if he gets those 400 AB's being predicted.

[bjoak]

Good article in Baseball Between the Numbers on how the effects catchers have on ERA is negligible. The primary example is 'defensive catcher' Matheny. I'm not saying these exercises are fruitless since the Angels might buy into catcher defense and ERA, but, uh, spending time looking at each of the short seasons from the Angels' catchers is not going to give you an ounce of real information.

[bjoak]

BTW, I was in 29th and 3 pts behind Kenyon early August when Bonderman, Bedard, and Shields went south. No shame at all losing to Dan Kenyon.So, er, the reason you lost was that you had Bedard and Shields carrying the rest of your losers until August. Note that I finished ahead of you (as usual) with complete full-year busts from rounds 2-4. I could brag that I made it to 16th but that is not the full year team I drafted. I don't need excuses because I have a resume.



finishing 50th, 150th or 250th is all the same to meClearly, though you tend to favor the 250.



I enjoy NFFC just as much as NFBC, so the second I was out of it, all energies except for lineup changes to stay ahead of Lance went to FB.That'll be a convenient excuse to use year after year. Maybe football players will go on strike some year and you can tell us about how you were spending your energy on fantasy fishing or golf.



Thanks for props on my number crunching, tho, it is what I do.



[ January 02, 2008, 03:29 AM: Message edited by: bjoak ]

[JohnZ]

Originally posted by bjoak:

Good article in Baseball Between the Numbers on how the effects catchers have on ERA is negligible. The primary example is 'defensive catcher' Matheny. I'm not saying these exercises are fruitless since the Angels might buy into catcher defense and ERA, but, uh, spending time looking at each of the short seasons from the Angels' catchers is not going to give you an ounce of real information. I/we squeezed about an ounce out. LOL. If Mathis catches ES in April, and ES pitches well, there could easily be something to it. Who was it that wanted Torborg to catch all the time? Chemistry factors in occasionally.



The one interesting stat I saw today in all this was Kendall on OAK. His CERA was great, like 3.55, but he gave up like 115 sb's and had a horrible %.

[bjoak]

Originally posted by UFS:

quote:Originally posted by bjoak:

Good article in Baseball Between the Numbers on how the effects catchers have on ERA is negligible. The primary example is 'defensive catcher' Matheny. I'm not saying these exercises are fruitless since the Angels might buy into catcher defense and ERA, but, uh, spending time looking at each of the short seasons from the Angels' catchers is not going to give you an ounce of real information. I/we squeezed about an ounce out. LOL. If Mathis catches ES in April, and ES pitches well, there could easily be something to it. Who was it that wanted Torborg to catch all the time? Chemistry factors in occasionally.



The one interesting stat I saw today in all this was Kendall on OAK. His CERA was great, like 3.55, but he gave up like 115 sb's and had a horrible %. [/QUOTE]Not sure it's useful info, but Oakland has a specific way they want their catcher to call a game and supposedly Kendall followed well and played by their rules and had a good memory, etc. Not sure that it all made any difference that was not due to luck. There is no way that his defense was making up for his contract or offense.



I should note that while the way catchers call a game doesn't seem to differentiate them, throwing out runners and fielding their position does. You didn't want Mike Piazza catching you if you were Jake Peavy in 2006.

[JohnZ]

Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:BTW, I was in 29th and 3 pts behind Kenyon early August when Bonderman, Bedard, and Shields went south. No shame at all losing to Dan Kenyon.So, er, the reason you lost was that you had Bedard and Shields carrying the rest of your losers until August. Note that I finished ahead of you (as usual) with complete full-year busts from rounds 2-4.



finishing 50th, 150th or 250th is all the same to meClearly, though you tend to favor the 250.



I enjoy NFFC just as much as NFBC, so the second I was out of it, all energies except for lineup changes to stay ahead of Lance went to FB.That'll be a convenient excuse to use year after year. Maybe football players will go on strike some year and you can tell us about how you were spending your energy on fantasy fishing or golf.



Thanks for props on my number crunching, tho, it is what I do. [/QUOTE]Knew it would take seconds for the Bjoak to ********* all over himself.



Bonderman, Bedard, and Shields is what I said.



Clearly, I tend to be closer to 150 when you actually look. And I don't really care. Why is it so important to you?



I make a post about Catchers and you and butt buddy turn it into another year of these lame posts. Comedy.



You're not as good as Childs, Thomas, Stephenson and Kenyon. So you suck just like anyone else that has never won a dime in the overall prize pool. You spend all this time and the best is 52nd? 52nd, and you spend all that time crunching numbers?



52nd is EXACTLY the same as 250th in the overall prize pool. $0.00.



It freaks me out that you guys use this stuff as a yardstick. I'll stick with my kids being 18, in college, and not on drugs.



I had pick 3,5 6,11,12,and 13 all suck. I win the bust contest. I'm so cool now. Whoopty, freakin doo. (Damon, Bonderman, Sexson, Tracy, Nomar, R.Hernandez)



FF isn't an excuse. It's another contest. It's another fun contest filled with great times in LV with cool people, and it pays for baseball this year!!



Don't knock Fantasy Fishing. I hear those guys are heading the next FSTA show and it's huge. #52 there probably cashes.

[bjoak]

Clearly, I tend to be closer to 150 when you actually look. And I don't really care. Why is it so important to you?And I tend to be closer to 50, which does pay, duh. They are worlds apart. Why do I care? Because I am the one who aims to succeed; you must be the other guy. That's great that your kids worked out well and you know about football and you watch bassmasters and you never had a cavity and whatever, but we're here to discuss fantasy baseball. Maybe if that's the thing you're not good at, you should move on.



[ January 02, 2008, 04:20 AM: Message edited by: bjoak ]

[bjoak]

I make a post about Catchers and you and butt buddy turn it into another year of these lame posts. Comedy. Also, if that is about Chest I'd lay off. He used to fight under the name Butterbean--perhaps you've heard of him--and this year he will be in Vegas looking for guys that he never liked to pounce on since Foxy won't be there!