Live Scoring

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Going to be soon as bad as my fantasy baseball teams are.

it's football time chad

[Navel Lint]

Tex @ Bal

Holland to Wieters

Ball 1

[Navel Lint]

Tex @ Bal

Holland to Wieters

Strike 1

[Navel Lint]

Tex @ Bal

Holland to Wieters

Ball 2

Man on first

"pull up a chair and join us.........."

[Money]

I have a friend in the NFBC. His name is Stan Kaye. I like Stan. He's a super guy, we share a lot of interests, and he's older than me. Believe me, that last one counts a lot! Just kidding, Stan.
Stan doesn't get on the Boards much, but he does have about 10 teams in the NFBC.
I run the Pre-Mature E-Draftulation League that starts drafting the minute the current season concludes. Stan has been a part of that league since it started.
Each year, Stan asks me if we could move the league to CBS. Now as said before, Stan has a lot of interests in the NFBC and on top of that, he has a few other leagues.

The reason why Stan wants us to move to CBS is because of the poor live scoring at NFBC.
Stan likes to watch his live scoring during hot summer nights. Not his tv. Not other sites on the computer. Just live scoring. He enjoys it.
But, his enjoyment is stifled because of the problems that often arise with NFBC scoring and he'll prefer the CBS scoring.

There are a lot of 'Stan's '. Folks that just want to see how THEIR teams are doing, not necessarily what Major League teams are doing. It used to be that live scoring was thought of as a 'throw in' for the customer. It's a lot more than that. For Stan, it is a night of entertainment. For others a swell way to check in on how their teams are doing.

Bells and whistles that follow later will be wonderful. For now, there are a lot of folks that just want to KNOW that live scoring will be working everyday.

Very well stated Dan.

The everyday version of live scoring should be IT's priority one. It's not horrible, it's just not great and its just plain bad on double header days. Reading between the lines and not speaking for anybody, I believe the priority right now is to get live scoring for the overall contests. I think they should nail the individual league live scoring, make it the best around and then tackle the overall aspect of it.

I hope to feel differently at the end of the year as I chase some sort of title.

[JEagle]

I love the NFBC but I hate the live scoring. I think it's pathetic. Sportsline live scoring is so far and away superior to stats that it upsets me. I wish that this feature would be upgraded sooner rather then later.

[Steel Lugnuts]

So the live scoring still gets confused when there's a double-header?

[BK METS]

There is nothing like the NFBC and this has been a record year... All more of a reason to fix issues we have been complaining about since the beginning of the year. Please, Greg and Tom... Help with this. We have all been very patient and generally considerate, keeping it within this one thread and just hoping for progress... I think we need a fix.

[Glenneration X]

Although I've been vocal on this concern in the past, I've stayed away from this thread to this point. However, the consistent issues with this very basic feature have become beyond frustrating. STATS' archaic live scoring has been a pet peeve of mine for both sports since I've joined this contest several years ago. I really can't understand why there remains so many issues with it.

It's by far the slowest to load in the industry.
There are consistent inaccuracies.
There are games and/or players that sometimes don't load at all.
The problems with doubleheaders have reached comic levels.
The football DC scoring is worthless.
And how is it possible that we still don't have live scoring in the overall standings?

We've been promised improvements in this area for years, but they have been incremental, marginal, and we've yet to see any real advancement in the feature. I'd be less critical if the rest of the industry didn't have this feature down pat. CBS Sportsline, Yahoo, ESPN, RT Sports, each of their live scoring features far exceeds the quality of STATS. Yes, some of these providers have unlimited resources and/or their commissioner service has been the heart of their business for years and therefore they've had the time and resources to improve the product. However, how do we explain the daily games that pop up every other hour that have better, faster, and more accurate live scoring than we do.

Is this the most important feature a backend service can provide? No, not even close. However, it may be one of the most enjoyable. Speaking solely for myself, I play these games for fun more than any other reason. Anything that takes away from that fun is a problem for me. It's time the promises stop and the resolution be provided. This will be my only post on the topic as I don't want to focus on one negative for a great contest with very few negatives and that I truly enjoy. However, I am hopeful that these issues get addressed and soon. Please take care of this. Thank you.

[mlbbug]

I know that I'm late to this thread but DH problems still exist. TEX @ BAL not showing stats. Murphy had a PH 3 run HR and Colby Lewis had 12 K's but they don't show a thing on live scoring. I'm sure that this is just one example and there are other guys missing stats also. Hope the stats(both good and bad) eventually get posted to the individual teams and don't just vanish like a fart in the wind !

[DOUGHBOYS]

I just got home from the ball park. Live scoring shows the stats for two of my players.
Even though over a half dozen played. I didn't bother to check on the other teams.
The games are over, I'm not even asking for 'live' scoring at this moment. Just ANY scoring or a recap.
No luck.

[Money]

Although I've been vocal on this concern in the past, I've stayed away from this thread to this point. However, the consistent issues with this very basic feature have become beyond frustrating. STATS' archaic live scoring has been a pet peeve of mine for both sports since I've joined this contest several years ago. I really can't understand why there remains so many issues with it.

It's by far the slowest to load in the industry.
There are consistent inaccuracies.
There are games and/or players that sometimes don't load at all.
The problems with doubleheaders have reached comic levels.
The football DC scoring is worthless.
And how is it possible that we still don't have live scoring in the overall standings?

We've been promised improvements in this area for years, but they have been incremental, marginal, and we've yet to see any real advancement in the feature. I'd be less critical if the rest of the industry didn't have this feature down pat. CBS Sportsline, Yahoo, ESPN, RT Sports, each of their live scoring features far exceeds the quality of STATS. Yes, some of these providers have unlimited resources and/or their commissioner service has been the heart of their business for years and therefore they've had the time and resources to improve the product. However, how do we explain the daily games that pop up every other hour that have better, faster, and more accurate live scoring than we do.

Is this the most important feature a backend service can provide? No, not even close. However, it may be one of the most enjoyable. Speaking solely for myself, I play these games for fun more than any other reason. Anything that takes away from that fun is a problem for me. It's time the promises stop and the resolution be provided. This will be my only post on the topic as I don't want to focus on one negative for a great contest with very few negatives and that I truly enjoy. However, I am hopeful that these issues get addressed and soon. Please take care of this. Thank you.

Thanks for jumping in here Glenn, your opinion is widely respected.

Greg and Tom, if you're listening here and I'm pretty sure you are, a head on approach is needed here. Typically you address this at the height of frustration. No need to get there. Simply spell it out what can and cannot be expected.

A major add this season was the ability to jump from team to team (our own teams) within the live scoring. What we lost was the ability to check out what others in our league were doing. If Sack is up 12 points tonight, I'd like to see what he's got going. This is no longer available. I like the trade off if I could only have one or the other, I would simply like both like every other site (I use this as an example)

There is more, but no need to pile on, simply let us know what can be expected and where baseball live scoring falls within the priority's.

Thank you for addressing the issues and concerns, we're all looking to enhance the game and its experience. Live scoring is essential to the enjoyment and growth of this game, it's widely used by the majority of those that participate. It's a passion!!

Thanks Guys.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Well said Glenn. I don't ask for much. At the end of the evening I want to see how my teams did in relation to the field. In what are bad days, I want to put it behind me before I go to bed. If I have a big day, I want to see how much ground that made up. I want to see this in relation to the overall rankings as well. I am not a programmer so it may be more complicated than I think. But the solution only needs to be found once and then in can be in place for all of your contests. In what is a growing football market, this is inevitably going to cost you guys market share. Not for a guy like me or Glenn. We are going to play here anyway. But for the fine folks that opt to play a team or two, not having great scoring completely takes the fun away. Figure it out one time. This is a great time to do it, before football season is in place. It will be tough. I get that. But the pleasure about people raving about it will outweigh the work that it takes to solve it now. Trust me, if the people in place don't know how to correct it and implement overall live scoring, I strongly suggest temporarily hiring someone that can do it. It will be great for your long term success. While you have a dominant hold on the baseball market, I think that there will be competition in the near future. Take it by the balls and keep your stranglehold. Don't take this as a negative but embrace it and get it done. You guys execute so well and are such good people. Don't let this small thing frustrate people to the point they forget about how great the live drafts and everything else is. Then I have some other important suggestions when the time is right, but this is a big one.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Sure guys, we're reading this thread with every post and will do everything we can to be the best in the industry at Live Scoring. Heck, STATS IS Live Scoring within the industry. We provide the data from every game.

So let's narrow this down before we lose Stan Kaye to CBS Sportsline.com. Live Scoring didn't work at all last night?? Or did the first game stats of yesterday's doubleheader disappear once the second game started? Did the Live Scoring stats run well during the second game but didn't include the first game stats?? Glenn, are you saying that Live Scoring is SLOWER than any site in the industry because it definitely shouldn't be. We're providing the live scoring stats to others. You guys nail it down exactly where you see the problem and we'll fix it.

As for doubleheaders, I'm pretty sure that Sportsline does this the same way, but correct me if I'm wrong. Live Scoring follows the current game and doesn't add up the two results. Is that something that should be adjusted? Should both games be carried together or can we add a line that at least shows the first game's results, too? I'll ask IT what steps can be taken to include the first game's stats somewhere. Right now everyone says doubleheaders are broke, but I assume it's doing what it's been programmed to do.

I don't see any of these as complaints as Chad said, just frustration to get something done. If it's the doubleheaders, let's look at it. If it's every single game, well, I'd hope more people would complain. Again, we are working on Live Overall Standings now, so we know the importance of Live Scoring and how you folks want to enjoy this passionate hobby even more each night. We're working hard to bring that to you with the Live Overall Standings. So to act like we don't care about this feature isn't accurate; just the opposite, we're taking steps to make it even more compelling.

Doubleheaders or more? Lead me to the exact problem and we'll definitely look at it.

[Hells Satans]

No stats show up at all for teams playing doubleheaders. From either game. No stats. At all.

[Greg Ambrosius]

No stats show up at all for teams playing doubleheaders. From either game. No stats. At all.

We will get the doubleheaders issue fixed. I agree, not having any stats from a doubleheader isn't acceptable. We need to get both games showing somehow during that day. We're on it and sorry about not having any stats yesterday.

[ToddZ]

Greg -- with respect to the speed issue, other sites in effect "have the calculation already done" so when you click live standings, BOOM, there it is, there is no loading of stats.

Think how All-Star Stats does it for your LABR and XFL teams -- click the link, see the standings. Click the team, see the player's daily stats.

CBS is similar, but actually takes it some step further as you can get the standings, the players (and you see when someone is at bat) then at the bottom, you can get sortable up to date standings with stats, roto points, daily stats and daily roto points.

On Roto is more like All Star.

But ALL have the standings "ready to go".

[Rog]

one thing about the doubleheader,nfbc usually has the player listed twice in the lineup if he is playing a double header.
game 1 0-3
game 2 0-3
where in my local cbs sports league the live scoring just keeps updating the player as 0-6 in the same line.

[Money]

Thanks for being on top of this Greg. No one likes to push issues to the forefront when it concerns people that we all like and respect so much.

Yesterday there were (as you know) no live stats for the doubleheader. When this happens it magnify's just how inferior our live scoring is to other products. Night in night out we know how they differ, but we know what we're getting and we accept it. The doubleheader situation simply brings out other frustrations that exist that we've chosen to accept.

The solution for this season is to fix the doubleheader scoring as to not unleash any underlying frustrations with the overall product. Going forward I'd like to suggest that you form a task force of sorts to brainstorm idea's to get the overall live scoring up to speed with other products. Why not have volunteer task force at the NFFC live drafts to discuss how to improve the player experience through live scoring. You'd probably want an internal task force to determine what makes sense from a business stand point.

As I've stated in the past, our live scoring isn't horrible, it's acceptable most of the time, it's simply not close to being the best and the NFBC/NFFC is synonymous with being the best.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I'll be the turd in our sandbox here.
If comparing to other sites, it is horrible. It is sometimes so slow to load that I lose interest and move on to other things. The hitters pop up first, then 10-15 seconds later, the pitchers stats show up. And that is on days where there isn't a doubleheader or on days where it's just being awnry and doesn't give us full stats.
These are for 30 player teams, so the extra loading time does not involve the more players that we carry on our slow draft teams.

Most of us have leagues on other sites. I play on no other site that has worse live scoring. It is as simple as that.
STATS being STATS, we should be getting the best of live scoring.
We aren't.
It is slow, other sites show and have more information, and on doubleheader days, our site is non-usable.
I talked to Stan last night to get permission to use his name in that post. He says CBS is still his 'go to' site.
It just should not be that way when he has teams with more money invested here at STATS/NFBC, should it?

Sorry, I do feel like a whiner with this post, but darn it, we have the best damned contest in the country.
Maybe we're spoiled to the point where we expect the best from every rule change, every decision, and every tech issue. It's been a part of the NFBC past to always satisfy customers. It is what makes bringing up a current issue like live scoring hard. We know that it'll get done and be one of the best live scoring sites in the future.
But for the now, we're just frustrated.

[RedRyder]

I don't see any of these as complaints as Chad said, just frustration to get something done. If it's the doubleheaders, let's look at it. If it's every single game, well, I'd hope more people would complain. Again, we are working on Live Overall Standings now, so we know the importance of Live Scoring and how you folks want to enjoy this passionate hobby even more each night. We're working hard to bring that to you with the Live Overall Standings. So to act like we don't care about this feature isn't accurate; just the opposite, we're taking steps to make it even more compelling.

Doubleheaders or more? Lead me to the exact problem and we'll definitely look at it.

I'm one of the "more people" that haven't complained because it's the same complaint as others and I kinda just assumed you all were on it and no need to pile on.

Glenn and Chad and Money all had well written complaints and I agree with them all.

The loading time takes too long. I click on Live Scoring for Sportsline and it loads right away. With NFBC Stats, it's slow AND hitters load first, then I have to wait for pitchers to load.

You know the doubleheader problem. When I checked Sportsline last night Kinsler had 10 ABs for my team, NFBC Stats 0.

I can ask this in on football MB, but strongly agree with what Glenn said about DC scoring and what Chad said about fixing/addressing the problem now. I completely lost interest in my DC teams because of the scoring last season. I want 17 weeks of enjoyment from the DCs, not just one day of drafting fun.

I don't think it is a matter of resources, STATS turns a profit from charging all these other league hosting sites. I'm not sure what the problem is, but it sure would be nice to not have to come on the MB and complain.

[Money Men]

This is my second year playing in one of the lower level NFBC contests. The live stats issues, and lack of urgency in fixing them, are not what I expected when I joined.

Finances are an issue I have to strongly consider. It wasn't easy to scrape together the $350 entry for my co-owner and myself to enter. It is my big fantasy sports expenditure for the year, and I know that puts me in the minority here.

But the free games I played in online for the past decade that are routinely mocked on the boards flat out kick the NFBC's ass in this regard.

Complaints have been rolling in regarding live scoring since April 14. The NFBC's lack of reaction has been a huge disappointment.

Greg and Tom - your responses in here on April 30 and May 2 came off as very condescending in my eyes and skirted a significant issue tha had been occurring for three weeks.

No, it is not just happening in slow draft leagues. No, it was not fixed by IT on May 2. No, it is not the same as on the free sites. No, I really didn't need to read a press release about all the bells and whistles that are coming down the pike in this forum.

I would just like to be confident that the stats work. And right now, I am not. The doubleheader thing is a complete joke. Games randomly don't load. Sometimes the addition is off. My team will throw 15 innings and it loads as 14 in the totals.

My ultimate goal was to scrape together enough to win an online league, then use the winnings to join a ME. I am glad you provide a forum for us to test our ability against a national audience. I have just been incredibly disappointed that the "industry leader" is nowhere near the free games when it comes to something like live stats, and doesn't seem to see that as a major issue.

Bob

[Tom Kessenich]

Bob, I'm sorry to hear that you're unhappy with your initial experience playing in the NFBC. The last thing Greg or I intend to do or want to do is come across as being condescending and I apologize if that's the impression you were left with. That's not in our nature and runs contrary to everything we believe in and the principals we've put in place that have helped build the NFBC to the stature it's at now. This is an issue we take seriously and our tech people are aware of it and have been working on it. We certainly want every aspect of our game to be the best it can possibly be.

I'm not a tech person so I can't provide an explanation for the doubleheader issue. I do know having played games on ESPN that their site also removes the first games stats once the second game begins. I haven't been on CBS for baseball in a few years so I'm not sure how they do it but given the responses here it sounds like they show all of the stats for both games with updated totals. As Greg said, not having any stats at all yesterday isn't acceptable and we need to ensure that does not happen again.

We definitely need to improve our Live Scoring and we'll do everything in our power to make whatever improvements are necessary.

[NorCalAtlFan]

it is amusing that we've had the same scoring issues forever, and each time we're told to give you guys an exact accounting of what's going on.
and you don't want to pass the buck, but both of you routinely compare nfbc scoring to other sites. and in that regard, it's no contest.
the doubleheader problem is a huge issue. you guys know that. yet when it comes up, yet again yesterday, you act surprised and want to know precisely what the problem is. the problem is it sux and yesterday was somehow worse than normal.

at this point, i figure your IT team is as inept as Fanball's was or they just don't give a shit. now i really don't think it's the latter, but it's almost more alarming if it's the former.

i use/have used 6-7 different fantasy baseball sites over the years and the live scoring with the nfbc is by far the worst. this would be bad for 2002, it is appalling in 2012.

sorry for the tone as i really enjoy my experience with the nfbc, but enough is enough.

[G1AZM]

Sure guys, we're reading this thread with every post and will do everything we can to be the best in the industry at Live Scoring. Heck, STATS IS Live Scoring within the industry. We provide the data from every game.

So let's narrow this down before we lose Stan Kaye to CBS Sportsline.com. Live Scoring didn't work at all last night?? Or did the first game stats of yesterday's doubleheader disappear once the second game started? Did the Live Scoring stats run well during the second game but didn't include the first game stats?? Glenn, are you saying that Live Scoring is SLOWER than any site in the industry because it definitely shouldn't be. We're providing the live scoring stats to others. You guys nail it down exactly where you see the problem and we'll fix it.

As for doubleheaders, I'm pretty sure that Sportsline does this the same way, but correct me if I'm wrong. Live Scoring follows the current game and doesn't add up the two results. Is that something that should be adjusted? Should both games be carried together or can we add a line that at least shows the first game's results, too? I'll ask IT what steps can be taken to include the first game's stats somewhere. Right now everyone says doubleheaders are broke, but I assume it's doing what it's been programmed to do.

I don't see any of these as complaints as Chad said, just frustration to get something done. If it's the doubleheaders, let's look at it. If it's every single game, well, I'd hope more people would complain. Again, we are working on Live Overall Standings now, so we know the importance of Live Scoring and how you folks want to enjoy this passionate hobby even more each night. We're working hard to bring that to you with the Live Overall Standings. So to act like we don't care about this feature isn't accurate; just the opposite, we're taking steps to make it even more compelling.

Doubleheaders or more? Lead me to the exact problem and we'll definitely look at it.

Bob did an excellent job stating how ridiculous this problem is while maintaining a level head. I echo his post entirely!

Greg, I do have to add one additional thought regarding your response. I find it absolutely mind boggling that your 2nd paragraph here makes it appear that you have no idea what has been going on with doubleheaders or the live scoring issues in general. It tells me unequivocally that you really have given little thought or concern to this issue. Frankly, that is just as disappointing as the problem itself.