FAAB Fixed or Fiction

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KJ Duke
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FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by KJ Duke » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:12 pm

Greg Ambrosius wrote:After receiving feedback from several owners on our new FAAB setup, we are working on several tweaks to make it even better. Some of these additions you'll see this week and some will go live next week. Thanks for the feedback everyone.

This week you'll see two new items within the new FAAB setup:
1. Sorting by player name
2. New color scheme to better separate multiple pending & conditional bids.

We are also working on items that should go live next week:
1. Pinning the free agent list so that your Pending Bids are always viewable. You will have a separate scroll bar for just the available free agents and the rest of the page stays stagnant.
2. Adding % Owned column to existing set of free agent rankings; an 8th column of data
3. Adding Other stats plus Date Activated data on a second tab with % Owned & % Activated also there
4. Creating a separate page with all of your Bid Groups listed in lines to quickly see each of your bids, with a tab that can quickly take you to all of your teams on this type of page. This should make a review of all of your bids for all of your teams on Sundays as quick as possible.
I don't know where the consensus is on this, but to me the entire re-do of FAAB so far has been a massive missed opportunity to have something really good that streamlines the process. Based on Greg's response above, I see the same 'ol IT tech team that doesn't get it ... either that or my personal opinion is just wildly off base.

• As someone who works with a lot of data, it is the silliest thing in the world to me that we cannot see more than 7 or 8 columns (woohoo, they're bending and giving us 1 extra column!) of data on a single page. I can comfortably fit about 40 columns of data on one page going across the same-sized screen in a spreadsheet next to a player name. The font sizes used on the FAAB page look appropriate for kindergartners ... not to mention the NFBC banner which itself takes up about 40% of the FAAB page (that complaint began back in the fanball days, deaf ears). When I open the FAAB page, I see 11 players listed before I need to scroll down ... I am looking at two screens at this moment, the screen to my right has stock quotes ... with 80+ lines of stock prices. The STATS solution is, how about we just give you drop-down menus or tabs to look at other data, because why would anyone possibly want to see all relevant player stats AND % owned at the same time without a bunch of back and forth clicking?

• And how about those ingenious logos ... is it intuitive that something that looks like a luggage tag means "bid on a player", or a luggage tag with a plus symbol = "conditional bid"? Or an eyeball for our track list ... how much time was spent deciding eyeball over the check mark we were all accustomed to? Hey, how about a column header that tells me what those things mean, or go really nuts and just put the word "BID" for where I am supposed to click to make a bid ...

• And the worst of it all are the player adds and drops stacked on top of each other, which not only means that you have to scroll and scroll just to see longer bid strings, but that you can't even look at the list without thinking "ok, is that the guy I'm bidding on or the guy I'm dropping?" Additionally, instead of having a normal player name as on the old page, we now have it in database form "Blackmon, C." with no first name.

Greg asked me to forward my issues to him a few days ago ... I did ... IT doesn't like them, they want it their way. They seem to think they know best. Maybe they do, maybe I am wayyyyyy off base and no one else sees these things like I do. That's possible, but I wanted to post here to find out if I'm the only one (in which case I'll just have to learn to live with it), or if others are as frustrated as me with this long-awaited "upgrade". Yes, we got drag and drop functionality, which we've wanted for years, and a side-by-side view (which it sounds like it will be better after the upcoming fix), but in the process we lost a bunch of viewable data and ended up with jumbled-looking bid strings. Is is possible for the IT gang to change the things we don't like without changing/deleting the things we do like in the process ????

Per Greg's update, a few issues are being addressed in the next update, but the following suggestions all seem to be have been dismissed by the IT dept (and I didn't even bother bringing up the monster banner issue) ...
1) Have the players you are bidding on directly below each other, with the player drops to the right (as it was before) --- this is the deal-killer for me because it makes the list length 2x as long and jumbled looking.

2) Show all data from the old "standard stats" pulldown menu (incl % owned) on the page at once. Do not create separate tabs or pulldown menus so we can't see all we want to see at the same time. Have sortability on all columns, and reduce font size to fit all on the page. Dump the "fantasy vs standard" pulldown throughout the entire site, it's completely unnecessary. Ideally, a player's team and position should be sortable columns too, rather than attaching to the player name.

3) List player names in correct order in bid string as it was before (e.g., show "Charlie Blackmon", not "Blackmon, Charlie" or even worse "Blackmon, C.") ... do not drop player first name in favor of first initial anywhere on the site (especially for bids and in the draft room).

4) When selecting a player drop, have that in a drop down box as it was before, rather than having it flip to a new area.

5) Dump the goofy logos for tracking players, editing, bidding, etc. The check mark for tracking was good, but use the actual words "BID", "EDIT", "COND", "DEL" in a tiny font rather than symbols ... trying to recall what these 6 or 7 symbols mean when you're working with long bid strings creates the opportunity for a massive time-wasting screw up.

6) No pop-up box confirmations ... ever. I thought this was fixed a few years ago; everyone hates popups.
Reading this overly-long post of mine, I realize I haven't seen a Massotto rant in weeks.

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Deadheadz
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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by Deadheadz » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:17 pm

I really liked the Bid on Player buttons on the individual player pages.

They disappeared once the new FAAB was rolled out. Did they think it was redundant? I disagree.
The Bill Buckner of FAAB
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Captain Hook
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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by Captain Hook » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:25 pm

You are not the only one Kevin - not even close to it
But there are a whole lot of sheep who never post or don't know about the message boards or got scared off if they found it - the silent masses don't know they should say what they want - Especially when it is different from what they are given.

Would be nice to send a delegation to spend a day with them and show them what is possible and why things are better for the players and why others are just a different problem

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by Hells Satans » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:30 pm

I'm just going to keep using the old setup. It's more visually appealing to me even if it's clunky.

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by NorCalAtlFan » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:41 pm

i am starting to believe there is no IT dept, but STATS puts up a craigslist ad for some some quick fixes.

every other site uses redundant technology or creates their own template, all the while keeping the functionality intuitive.
STATS IT dept sees a wheel and tries to turn it back into a square block. it's maddening.

this isn't to bash Greg or Tom, they aren't the tech "experts" but holy cow, the simplest task takes forever and when implemented, is imperfect at best.

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by swampass » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:49 pm

coudnt agree more with the above posts. the new layout gives me headaches.

i was a yahoo kid til 7 years ago and after i joined i was saddened to see the fantasy site. I was confused as this was the top dog event and yet they have some of the worst fantasy pages out there.

i love the people and i love the competition but its the fantasy website that keep this company from really dominating the market.

every year i keep hoping that it gets the full revamp and ill keep hoping til it happens.

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by King of Queens » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:01 pm

Hells Satans wrote:I'm just going to keep using the old setup. It's more visually appealing to me even if it's clunky.
Agreed. Aesthetics and functionality are NOT mutually exclusive concepts.

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by Glenneration X » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:12 pm

The new FAAB isn't perfect. There are some much needed adds and tweaks that have been discussed that are required here. However in my opinion, it is head and shoulders better than the old format, and it's not even close.

FAAB is work for me. I want to get through it as fast and efficiently as possible and move onto the rest of my day and life. The "move up", "move down", and "edit" tabs of the old format were at best archaic and at worst incredibly time consuming and crap. The "drag and drop" technology utilized for the new format alone makes FAAB much more functional and my time performing it much more efficient.

The side by side formatting, once independent scrolling is added as promised, should also increase the efficiency by eliminating the need to scroll up through the entire free agent list once we add all our conditionals, just to reorder our conditionals, edit our drops/adds, or even just start a new bid grouping.

I do agree that some of the points KJ offered would be very nice adds, others pretty much needed. However functionality trumps all to me when it comes to FAAB. Speed, efficiency, get me outta there. The rest is all icing. As far as visually appealing, when I need that, I can always take a break from FAAB and move over to a Kate Upton website. ;)

I'm not trying to minimize anyone's complaints or concerns, but all I see are complaints and concerns. There are significant improvements in the new FAAB, they should be acknowledged, and I believe saying that the new FAAB is trumped by the old is just flat out wrong.

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by HOB » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:19 pm

Tbh i have been playing NFBC and post here and there but i never really understood the complete lack of communication between staff and players. I should not have to go to forums to get news or updates. For 350 bones i should at the bare min get an email. I have never been asked or seen any survey or questions about the product. It appears for the most part a small minority of players speak for the masses because they either go to live events or are on the forums.

I hate the fact that every year there are issues with the IT and every year there are in season fixes when they should be fixed in the off season.

I know because im only an online player that my opinion does not matter as much but i bet there are at least a few that feel the same way.

The first post in this thread was 110% dead on. Hope things turn around at some point.

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KJ Duke
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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by KJ Duke » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:21 pm

Glenneration X wrote: FAAB is work for me. I want to get through it as fast and efficiently as possible and move onto the rest of my day and life. The "move up", "move down", and "edit" tabs of the old format were at best archaic and at worst incredibly time consuming and crap. The "drag and drop" technology utilized for the new format alone makes FAAB much more functional and my time performing it much more efficient.
I agree on the fast and efficient Glenn, I know you have as many teams as I and probably more, but even with drag and drop this new process is slowing me down more than it's speeding me up, and that is really frustrating.

I'm with Particelli, KOQ and others and still using the old system because I can identify the players I want, bid on them, and review/adjust my bids more efficiently using old clunky.

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by Yah Mule » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:23 pm

Captain Hook wrote:You are not the only one Kevin - not even close to it
But there are a whole lot of sheep who never post or don't know about the message boards or got scared off if they found it - the silent masses don't know they should say what they want - Especially when it is different from what they are given.

Would be nice to send a delegation to spend a day with them and show them what is possible and why things are better for the players and why others are just a different problem
Maybe people get "scared off" the message boards because they don't think being referred to as sheep is useful dialogue. You can't encourage inclusiveness and participation by being insulting at the same time.

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by ikenbaseball » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:48 pm

I don't like the new FAAB myself.
I gave it a try but found that the old setup suits me better especially with with % owned column.

I do wish I didn't have to scroll all the way down to the very bottom of the page to click on the old setup option, but rather it was available on one of the top headers.


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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by Chest Rockwell » Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:54 pm

Yah Mule wrote:
Captain Hook wrote:You are not the only one Kevin - not even close to it
But there are a whole lot of sheep who never post or don't know about the message boards or got scared off if they found it - the silent masses don't know they should say what they want - Especially when it is different from what they are given.

Would be nice to send a delegation to spend a day with them and show them what is possible and why things are better for the players and why others are just a different problem
Maybe people get "scared off" the message boards because they don't think being referred to as sheep is useful dialogue. You can't encourage inclusiveness and participation by being insulting at the same time.
Sounds like you think Captain Hook works for the nfbc. He does not he just likes to answer questions directed at Tom and Greg most of the time correctly. Most of the time.

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by Outlaw » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:00 pm

KJ and others are right in their concerns. I'll bet a majority of team owners who never post in these boards or visit them are all sorts of confused with that new FAAB, some may not even know the old FAAB still works. any team owner who screws up even one FAAB because of a web design that does not work well, will have a sour taste in their mouth. I've got a background in IT, highly technical and security stuff and the new FAAB web page is totally dysfunctional in my opinion. I've tried playing around with it and it is one big visually unappealing, messy web page with limited functionality and help. Lord knows what it looks like on a phone or Tablet. Not for nothing, when rollouts don't go well, sometimes IT pulls them back. It's just like the new live scoring, it does not work well still. I'm not criticizing the effort, but when what the users want is not considered or barley considered and the finished product isn't even close to what they would like, well you end up with unhappy end users or in this case customers/players.

Better use of a formal suggestion box and then reply's to each one would make people feel more involved. Also the polling of users is another option. Lastly find a group of 10-20 beta test users/players and let them work out the bugs on new offerings and then rollout the new web pages/designs. Customers, users and people will help improve your product, but only if they have a way to effectively participate and it sure is not these forums and never will be. Personally choosing between old FAAB and New FAAB is easy, its old FAAB for me. But as some have said, who have a large amount of Teams, they definitely would need and like a more effective way of doing FAAB, I just don't see it with this new system. I sure hope the old FAAB and the old scoring options are not removed until something much better, faster and reliable comes along. I have not been around much lately, because of some serious issues involving my brothers death, but I do check in once in while and try to keep up on things.
Last edited by Outlaw on Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by King of Queens » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:01 pm

ikenbaseball wrote: I do wish I didn't have to scroll all the way down to the very bottom of the page to click on the old setup option, but rather it was available on one of the top headers.
Bookmark the following, and you'll be all set:

http://nfbc.stats.com/baseball/reports/ ... gs.2.0.asp

8-)

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by King of Queens » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:06 pm

KJ Duke wrote:FAAB Fixed or Fiction
Image

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by COZ » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:11 pm

I honestly like it. And I typically hate change from any interface that I'm accustomed to using. The little icons took some getting used to, but if you hover over it with the mouse it tells you what it is. Has anyone not used CBS' and ESPN's FAAB? It's brutal, every new bid, and every conditional bid must be manually entered. This is so far superior its not even close. While I agree the aesthetics could use some improvement, I don't think that is as important as functionality, at least to me. I also like that all the players are now listed on one page as well. A little tweaking and aesthetics improvement and its fine. To me, simply having the "copy" all bid groups makes this superior.

I think the complaints may reside with the software system more than anything else. I am loving the new FAAB system, though it seems like everyone has some vision of the perfect FAAB system. Was there another system or competition that had a better system? Because on the systems I have played, this is the best I've experienced so maybe I have a low expectation level.

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by Money » Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:57 pm

I agree Coz, I like it and like it a lot. This is your classic resistance to change. Everyone wants it their way and they want it now. Do I like everything about it, of course not, no one will. I remember the change to the new live scoring, I loved the speed but not the visual, that still isn't fixed. But I clicked over to the old live scoring for about 3 weeks and each week it got less and less, now I never go there and that still needs improving, believe me.

Heaven forbid everyone doesn't get it exactly their way. This is a massive improvement and will only get better. I say give it a chance. It's possible some are venting over poor starts or injuries, if that was the case I would be at the head of the line.

I applaud the change and hope that most will give it a chance even though their every little desire hasn't been met yet. I realize that I'm on the opposite side of this than 90% posting here.

This is a whole lot better than most are giving it credit for.
Joe

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KJ Duke
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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by KJ Duke » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:25 pm

Money wrote:I agree Coz, I like it and like it a lot. This is your classic resistance to change. Everyone wants it their way and they want it now. Do I like everything about it, of course not, no one will. I remember the change to the new live scoring, I loved the speed but not the visual, that still isn't fixed. But I clicked over to the old live scoring for about 3 weeks and each week it got less and less, now I never go there and that still needs improving, believe me.

Heaven forbid everyone doesn't get it exactly their way. This is a massive improvement and will only get better. I say give it a chance. It's possible some are venting over poor starts or injuries, if that was the case I would be at the head of the line.

I applaud the change and hope that most will give it a chance even though their every little desire hasn't been met yet. I realize that I'm on the opposite side of this than 90% posting here.

This is a whole lot better than most are giving it credit for.
You are a virtual factory of cliches.

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by Money » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:31 pm

KJ Duke wrote: You are a virtual factory of cliches.
Time to come clean and admit that you and deaheadz are one in the same. Pretty weak to create a second persona for the message boards.
Joe

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by Yah Mule » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:40 pm

Chest Rockwell wrote:
Yah Mule wrote:
Captain Hook wrote:You are not the only one Kevin - not even close to it
But there are a whole lot of sheep who never post or don't know about the message boards or got scared off if they found it - the silent masses don't know they should say what they want - Especially when it is different from what they are given.

Would be nice to send a delegation to spend a day with them and show them what is possible and why things are better for the players and why others are just a different problem
Maybe people get "scared off" the message boards because they don't think being referred to as sheep is useful dialogue. You can't encourage inclusiveness and participation by being insulting at the same time.
Sounds like you think Captain Hook works for the nfbc. He does not he just likes to answer questions directed at Tom and Greg most of the time correctly. Most of the time.
My interpretation of his comment was that many people have complaints, but are reluctant to voice them for one reason or another. From my own perspective, I know there are things that could be improved in the NFBC, but I don't believe I'm contributing anything by just echoing someone else's concerns.

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KJ Duke
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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by KJ Duke » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:43 pm

Money wrote:
KJ Duke wrote: You are a virtual factory of cliches.
Time to come clean and admit that you and deaheadz are one in the same. Pretty weak to create a second persona for the message boards.
Second persona? I have hundreds ... why do think so many people disagree with almost everything you say? And they're all coming for you, Joe.

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by Glenneration X » Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:50 pm

FAAB has changed but the KJ-Money feud goes on in perpetuity.
For those who hate change, be glad that some things will always be the same. :D

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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by Deadheadz » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:03 pm

Money wrote:
KJ Duke wrote: You are a virtual factory of cliches.
Time to come clean and admit that you and deaheadz are one in the same. Pretty weak to create a second persona for the message boards.
Should I be flattered? :mrgreen:
The Bill Buckner of FAAB
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Re: FAAB Fixed or Fiction

Post by COZ » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:04 pm

Wow. That got personal in a hurry. That's it, I gotta get out to Vegas to meet all these characters.

While I like the FAAB system, I think KJ's "tweaks" enuniciated below are spot on. I do, however, prefer the new drop down menu for players-to-be-dropped because it lists your roster by position rather than alphabetically which allows a quick roster visual when deciding whom to drop. this was a nice little tweak to me. As well as being able to just list all your bids and hit enter once, not for every bid. I found there were a lot of these little time saving tweaks.

I think many people are complaing about the searchability stuff, i.e. stats and players. But the system itself is solid, though not perfect. And Greg said they wanted to release it prior to total completion of all searchability options. I'm actually a bit surprised by the negative feedback.

COZ
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