Henry Owens / Tyler Duffey

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:56 pm

I am curious why Henry Owens and Tyler Duffey were available in the free agent pool this week. It appears that both were recalled from the minors on Sunday, April 24th -- but not until after 7am EDT.

BK METS · Post by **BK METS** » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:36 pm

I only saw Duffey in one of my leagues and only because he was drafted. I did not see Owens in any league until after the 10:00pm deadline. But maybe I just missed it.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:58 am

I was traveling this weekend and had to rush to get all of my FAAB in last night. I did notice Owens and Duffey were available. If they were not drafted in leagues, how could this be? Can we get confirmation from the NFBC that both of those players were added to the major league rosters prior to Sunday. My intel has both of them being added on Sunday by their major league teams. What am I missing??

Will FAAB bids need to be rerun if they were not added before Sunday?

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:17 am

Greg/Tom: I'm going to send you an email/text in a few minutes about this.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:33 am

King of Queens wrote:I am curious why Henry Owens and Tyler Duffey were available in the free agent pool this week. It appears that both were recalled from the minors on Sunday, April 24th -- but not until after 7am EDT.

Both players had MLB experience and thus were eligible to be picked up once they were on an MLB team. Owens pitched in 11 games last year for Boston, while Duffey pitched in 10 games last year. Both were treated just like any other MLB veteran who gets added to an MLB roster: They are eligible to be bid on as soon as they are on an MLB roster, as long as it's before 7 am ET on Sunday.

We don't just add players to FAAB, they are added once MLB shows they are on a roster. Usually we are accused of being behind the news on this. There were reports on Friday and Saturday that both pitchers would be added to the MLB rosters and pitching on Sunday. I don't know when officially that happened with MLB, but it must have happened before 7 am ET on Sunday. That's what it takes to be added to our free agent pool.

Just because you read it on Rotoworld.com that he was being added at 8:30 am ET doesn't mean that's when it officially happened. I have no idea when both transactions officially happened, but again we don't just add players on our own. Hope that helps.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:35 am

Gekko wrote:Greg/Tom: I'm going to send you an email/text in a few minutes about this.

Thank goodness you didn't send that text in a font size of 200 like the post above. Wow, now that's really shouting.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:43 am

Greg Ambrosius wrote:
Gekko wrote:Greg/Tom: I'm going to send you an email/text in a few minutes about this.
Thank goodness you didn't send that text in a font size of 200 like the post above. Wow, now that's really shouting.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:45 am

Greg Ambrosius wrote:
King of Queens wrote:I am curious why Henry Owens and Tyler Duffey were available in the free agent pool this week. It appears that both were recalled from the minors on Sunday, April 24th -- but not until after 7am EDT.
Both players had MLB experience and thus were eligible to be picked up once they were on an MLB team. Owens pitched in 11 games last year for Boston, while Duffey pitched in 10 games last year. Both were treated just like any other MLB veteran who gets added to an MLB roster: They are eligible to be bid on as soon as they are on an MLB roster, as long as it's before 7 am ET on Sunday.

We don't just add players to FAAB, they are added once MLB shows they are on a roster. Usually we are accused of being behind the news on this. There were reports on Friday and Saturday that both pitchers would be added to the MLB rosters and pitching on Sunday. I don't know when officially that happened with MLB, but it must have happened before 7 am ET on Sunday. That's what it takes to be added to our free agent pool.

Just because you read it on Rotoworld.com that he was being added at 8:30 am ET doesn't mean that's when it officially happened. I have no idea when both transactions officially happened, but again we don't just add players on our own. Hope that helps.

Okay, thanks Greg. I think some of the frustration is that we (as players) don't see the "official" MLB transaction log. The only one we can see is the one posted on the MLB website (both showing Sunday)

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/transactions/#month=4&year=2016

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:51 am

Gekko wrote:
Greg Ambrosius wrote:
King of Queens wrote:I am curious why Henry Owens and Tyler Duffey were available in the free agent pool this week. It appears that both were recalled from the minors on Sunday, April 24th -- but not until after 7am EDT.
Both players had MLB experience and thus were eligible to be picked up once they were on an MLB team. Owens pitched in 11 games last year for Boston, while Duffey pitched in 10 games last year. Both were treated just like any other MLB veteran who gets added to an MLB roster: They are eligible to be bid on as soon as they are on an MLB roster, as long as it's before 7 am ET on Sunday.

We don't just add players to FAAB, they are added once MLB shows they are on a roster. Usually we are accused of being behind the news on this. There were reports on Friday and Saturday that both pitchers would be added to the MLB rosters and pitching on Sunday. I don't know when officially that happened with MLB, but it must have happened before 7 am ET on Sunday. That's what it takes to be added to our free agent pool.

Just because you read it on Rotoworld.com that he was being added at 8:30 am ET doesn't mean that's when it officially happened. I have no idea when both transactions officially happened, but again we don't just add players on our own. Hope that helps.

Okay, thanks Greg. I think some of the frustration is that we (as players) don't see the "official" MLB transaction log. The only one we can see is the one posted on the MLB website (both showing Sunday)

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/transactions/#month=4&year=2016

I understand and like I said above usually we get complaints that we don't add them as soon as you see them being called up on Rotoworld.com. This is a first for being too quick with the move. The MLB teams make these moves with Major League Baseball and we just get the official transactions during the day and night. Since both pitchers were pitching on Sunday, I'm sure teams had to have the paperwork done well before they pitched. I don't have a time stamp for when both were added, but again we don't just add them. It came from MLB before 7 am ET on Sunday and everyone saw them in the player pool all day long. Nothing mysterious there.

If you have questions about players in the pool feel free to email me or post on the boards BEFORE winning bids are announced. I got a couple of emails about how Owens was eligible when Mazara wasn't last week, but nothing on the timing of his callup. Hope this helps.

Money · Post by **Money** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:54 am

Kepler on Minnesota was made available this year based on a Saturday night call up and only a handful of at bats the previous year in a late season call up. This seems conflicting from other players.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:58 am

There are often discrepancies on the mlb.com Transactions page with regards to the actual date. For example, the Blake Snell demotion/Jhan Marinez recall was announced after Saturday night's game, on 4/23/16. Yet, on mlb.com, it lists the transaction as 4/24/16.

With Henry Owens, there was no announcement, transaction, tweet, etc. until Sunday. It was known on Friday that Boston was using Owens, but again, seemingly no official word. For this move, again, the transaction is listed as 4/24/16.

So what is the correct posting date? The answer, it seems, is when the STATS database tells us.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:59 am

Just one more quick note about free agency: A couple of years ago when we rewrote the FAAB rules we all agreed that it made sense to deal with the rookies by saying they had to have played in the majors at least once before joining the FAAB pool. It was our way of saying you can't just pick up a hot rookie in the minors and stashing them on your reserves. They have to officially be on an MLB roster and have played in the majors.

That's why when rookies like Nomar Mazara and Mallex Smith get called up on Saturday night and don't play their first MLB games until Sunday afternoon they aren't eligible in FAAB until the next week. They hadn't played in an MLB game before 7 am ET on Sunday. But when Henry Owens first appears on a Sunday, he is eligible for FAAB because he previously played in the majors (2015, 11 games) and was officially on an MLB roster before 7 am ET on Sunday. He's like any other MLB veteran getting recalled to the majors, even though he still has rookie eligibility.

And another item we added a few years back is that even if a player gets called up during the week and sent back down to the minors he remains in the FAAB pool for the rest of the year. That pertains to a guy like Blake Snell, who pitched well for the Rays and was sent back down to the minors. Instead of wiping out all of those bids made this weekend, Snell remained in the player pool and bids for him were processed. I really like that rule update.

Hopefully that all makes sense.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:01 am

Money wrote:Kepler on Minnesota was made available this year based on a Saturday night call up and only a handful of at bats the previous year in a late season call up. This seems conflicting from other players.

He played 3 games in 2015. No conflict there at all. Once added to the MLB roster, he's available to get picked up in FAAB.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:04 am

King of Queens wrote:So what is the correct posting date? The answer, it seems, is when the STATS database tells us.

BINGO!!

Now admittedly we got it wrong last Monday in the Cutline because we opened FAAB up on Sunday night, which allowed Mazara and Smith into the Cutline free agent pool on Monday. Going forward, we're going to have to lock FAAB on Sunday through the Monday June Cutline to avoid this from happening again. We know how to handle that final Cutline FAAB so that this doesn't happen again.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:04 am

Here's an interesting one:

04/25/16
Detroit Tigers optioned Matt Boyd to Toledo Mud Hens

04/24/16
Detroit Tigers recalled LHP Matt Boyd from Toledo Mud Hens

Matt Boyd pitched in the majors last year. He was recalled before yesterday's game, didn't pitch in the game, and was demoted today.

Based on our rules, shouldn't he appear in the Free Agent pitcher list as of today?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:45 am

King of Queens wrote:Here's an interesting one:

04/25/16
Detroit Tigers optioned Matt Boyd to Toledo Mud Hens

04/24/16
Detroit Tigers recalled LHP Matt Boyd from Toledo Mud Hens

Matt Boyd pitched in the majors last year. He was recalled before yesterday's game, didn't pitch in the game, and was demoted today.

Based on our rules, shouldn't he appear in the Free Agent pitcher list as of today?

He pitched 4.2 innings yesterday. Yes, he should be available in all NFBC leagues this week.

Deadheadz · Post by **Deadheadz** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:33 pm

.

Maybe changing or adding the information provided on the NFBC Recent Activation page (like a timestamp?) would be helpful for everyone.

.

COZ · Post by **COZ** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 4:51 pm

Deadheadz wrote: Maybe changing or adding the information provided on the NFBC Recent Activation page (like a timestamp?) would be helpful for everyone.

Timestamp? Do we use the timestamp when the team emailed/faxed/called the activation into the MLB offices? Or do we use the timestamp when actually received by the Commissioner's Offices? Or is it when the email is actually opened, fax received, or when it is actually processed by them? Or is it when it is finally released to the public & media like the MLB.com website? Or is it when it is released to the media & actually processed and updated by STATS, Inc.? These are all interesting questions that could affect when a player is in our Free Agent pool and affect the outcome of our contest. OR.....maybe, I'm just spit-balling here, maybe it doesn't fucking matter what the timestamp is because these players were in the player pool all day Sunday and notice was clearly given to STATS, Inc. sometime before the 7:00 AM ET. A bit too many Peter Brady hall-monitor types and faux-outrage-demanding-answer-types. Ridiculous.

COZ

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:24 pm

Chris, with all due respect, people DO need to pay attention to stuff like this. The issue of when free agents should vs actually become available is not a new one. For example, yesterday a player pitched 4.2 innings, and was subsequently sent to the minors. Yet, as of right now, that player does not appear in the Free Agent pitcher list. Under our rules, he should be there. In all probability, he will be added by Sunday. However, if this were a Saturday/Sunday event, are you 100% certain that he would be available for bid?

To me, this is not about Henry Owens or Tyler Duffey. I am more curious about the timeline and process in which players are added to the available bid list. The timestamp suggestion might actually provide some clues beyond the random data refresh that happens while most of us are sleeping.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:56 pm

Greg Ambrosius wrote:
King of Queens wrote:Here's an interesting one:

04/25/16
Detroit Tigers optioned Matt Boyd to Toledo Mud Hens

04/24/16
Detroit Tigers recalled LHP Matt Boyd from Toledo Mud Hens

Matt Boyd pitched in the majors last year. He was recalled before yesterday's game, didn't pitch in the game, and was demoted today.

Based on our rules, shouldn't he appear in the Free Agent pitcher list as of today?
He pitched 4.2 innings yesterday. Yes, he should be available in all NFBC leagues this week.

I don't see Boyd in the free agent list. What am i missing?

COZ · Post by **COZ** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:59 pm

King of Queens wrote:Chris, with all due respect, people DO need to pay attention to stuff like this. The issue of when free agents should vs actually become available is not a new one. For example, yesterday a player pitched 4.2 innings, and was subsequently sent to the minors. Yet, as of right now, that player does not appear in the Free Agent pitcher list. Under our rules, he should be there. In all probability, he will be added by Sunday. However, if this were a Saturday/Sunday event, are you 100% certain that he would be available for bid?

To me, this is not about Henry Owens or Tyler Duffey. I am more curious about the timeline and process in which players are added to the available bid list. The timestamp suggestion might actually provide some clues beyond some random data refresh that happens while most of us are sleeping.

Fair point, Glenn. Your point is well-taken. As Greg said, I think the deciding factor has to be when STATS, Inc. processes or does their data refresh which I assume is not random, but scheduled to run at 7:01 AM ET on Sunday. And I'm guessing it runs every night as well to refresh rosters/ stats, etc.at a specified time. To rely on other websites as being official I think is problematic as this thread indicates. While my post took it to the extreme, that is literally what someone could do to question when a player is actually added to the Roster, so for simplicity, we just have to default to when STATS, Inc. does their data refresh, otherwise we run into relying on other 3rd parties to determine timestamps. I'm guessing, but I assume, as in law, the mailbox rule (i.e. time when sent by the team either by email or fax) controls for the Commissioner's Office as to when the transaction is effective even though they may not actually process it or even announce it until hours or days later. But for our contest, we likely never know when the team actually sent in the roster move, so to have a bright line simple rule, we rely on a 7:01 AM EST STATS, Inc. data refresh. And that is good enough for me, though I sense you and others likely don't trust STATS, Inc to do this.

COZ

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Apr 25, 2016 6:03 pm

simple - a few screen shots of all faab players at 7.01am sunday morning should provide all of the timestamps anyone needs. if a player appears after that, we have a problem. simple

Deadheadz · Post by **Deadheadz** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:44 am

Gekko wrote:simple - a few screen shots of all faab players at 7.01am sunday morning should provide all of the timestamps anyone needs. if a player appears after that, we have a problem. simple

Then you'll have problems. The rule would include players added at 6:59am and you seem to believe STATS will have published all players including those by 7:01? I thought you understood technology.

The reason I suggested a timestamp on the NFBC recent additions page it that it would be a handy reference to see what's changed in the past hours or days regarding players added. Screenshot that one page if you like. Why go to the work of making screen shots of the entire FAAB pool?

I guess it's pointless as the recent additions page shows only players who were not previously part of NFBCs pool at all. It has nothing to do with FAAB eligibility.

But a similar page called "recent FAAB pool addiditons" would be one-stop shopping for anyone concerned they'll miss the ability to bid on a player because they didn't know the player was available.

.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:28 am

From my understanding, times tamps are NOT gonna happen. For the simpletons out there, screen shots will take less than 60 seconds. That's a lot of "work". ROFLMAO!!!!

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:43 am

anyone see Boyd in the free agent pool?? What am I missing?

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