Slo- Drafts and New Rules

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:52 am

What we have here is a game within a game. We have to beat 389 other players, but we are at the mercy of the league environment we are in to accomplish this.

If a minor league player like Ryan Braun two years ago gets drafted, another player in that player pool gets undrafted. The other player could have little or no value, but it changes that free agent pool from day one. If Braun gets dropped, he is fair game. I could have been interested in him on draft day, but another team beat me to the punch. When he is dropped, he peeks the interest of any owner who had some interest in him. Because he is in the minors, his present value is less. On the open market he will go cheaper, but there is no guarentee he will be free ($1). I'm sure in some league he was dropped and no one has any interest. Six weeks later they read on rotoworld about him and grap him two weeks before anyone else.

This league's player pool has changed because a rookie was drafted. The player not drafted has a chain reaction of bids to follow.

Maybe the best solution would be: If a minor league players is dropped, he is available to that league for one bidding period. Therefore any owner who had interest in him on draft day would still have a shot at him. If everyone passes, he drops out of the player pool just like any league where he went undrafted.

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:55 am

I can definitely see both view points, and I waiver in support from one to the other.

Good luck Greg deciding what course of action to take.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:12 am

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

What we have here is a game within a game. We have to beat 389 other players, but we are at the mercy of the league environment we are in to accomplish this.

If a minor league player like Ryan Braun two years ago gets drafted, another player in that player pool gets undrafted. The other player could have little or no value, but it changes that free agent pool from day one. If Braun gets dropped, he is fair game. I could have been interested in him on draft day, but another team beat me to the punch. When he is dropped, he peeks the interest of any owner who had some interest in him. Because he is in the minors, his present value is less. On the open market he will go cheaper, but there is no guarentee he will be free ($1). I'm sure in some league he was dropped and no one has any interest. Six weeks later they read on rotoworld about him and grap him two weeks before anyone else.

This league's player pool has changed because a rookie was drafted. The player not drafted has a chain reaction of bids to follow.

Maybe the best solution would be: If a minor league players is dropped, he is available to that league for one bidding period. Therefore any owner who had interest in him on draft day would still have a shot at him. If everyone passes, he drops out of the player pool just like any league where he went undrafted. Correct Shawn. And when Lance takes fliers on three rookies in Rounds 28, 29 and 30 he prevents owners in his league from having the chance to take any of those rookies. But when Lance gets bored and drops any of them, they should remain in that league's free agent pool to give those owners who didn't get a chance to draft them a continued chance to bid on them and acquire them via FAAB.

Now if we allow every other league to have access to these rookies during the season just because Lance took a flyer on them, then that's the best of both worlds for those guys. They didn't need to draft them, nobody in their league drafted them but the first chance they get they can bid on them for a low price and stash them on their reserve roster if they want. The two weeks in between the live draft and the first FAAB allows them time to reassess how much they like those youngsters.

So I kept each league private when it came to free agents while still running the national contest. And I had my reasoning for it. But we'll think this through and figure out if this remains the best way or not. As Shawn knows, some folks internally disagree with me. Some agree. We'll figure it out and appreciate your input (which is what Shawn was looking for).

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:33 am

I like the rookie rule as is, for every pick selected there is a player unselected - thus the existing rule is a zero-sum game, no league has an advantage.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:39 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

I like the rookie rule as is, for every pick selected there is a player unselected - thus the existing rule is a zero-sum game, no league has an advantage. If the "unselected" player was not a rookie...it has zero bearing on this discussion, as they would in fact be in all leagues across the ME.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:34 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

I like the rookie rule as is, for every pick selected there is a player unselected - thus the existing rule is a zero-sum game, no league has an advantage. If the "unselected" player was not a rookie...it has zero bearing on this discussion, as they would in fact be in all leagues across the ME. [/QUOTE]And that unselected major lge player would be available in the FA pool, thus strengthening that lge's FA pool versus other lges where he is on a roster, correct?

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:32 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

I like the rookie rule as is, for every pick selected there is a player unselected - thus the existing rule is a zero-sum game, no league has an advantage. If the "unselected" player was not a rookie...it has zero bearing on this discussion, as they would in fact be in all leagues across the ME. [/QUOTE]And that unselected major lge player would be available in the FA pool, thus strengthening that lge's FA pool versus other lges where he is on a roster, correct? [/QUOTE]"Major league" players get picked up and dropped and picked up again all year long...doesn't make them more valuable than anyone else. All "major leaguers" are avaliable to all.

We're talking about minor leaguers here, correct?

We're talking about player pools being level, correct?

We're talkin' bout PRACTICE!

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:20 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Just a dumb comment.

dumb = paying $1,300 for locking in your lineup for a full week no matter what. played that way before and will never go back. that's a "slacker" game.

Asumijet · Post by **Asumijet** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:57 am

Another rule change suggestion, I would prefer to be able to bid for my KDS number with FAAB over the current random draw. This could work one of two ways:

1) We make one bid for when your team is pulled out of the hat, and then the KDS is applied; or

2) We submit a bid for all 15 draft slots and the highest bidder for each spot wins.

For those that don't want to bid, they can just submit $1 for either process. For those that feel the draft spot matters, then the frustration of the random draw is eliminated.

Yes, you can win from any spot. And we can cut the data to show a number of different conclusions as to the value of a draft spot. But that doesn't mean there are not inherent advantages to a draft spot in certain draft years. When there is a perceived advantage in a given year, then there is a cost to getting the best spots. And it potentially evens out the advantage through the loss of FAAB. Going with this proposal eliminates the customer dissatisfaction from receiving their 15th KDS preference.

Asumijet · Post by **Asumijet** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:58 am

Oh, and the twice a week change for hitters is a great idea! In case anyone is still polling.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:52 pm

When you cannot accept a random draw for draft slot as an acceptable way to form leagues, either a) you believe the game setup is unfair, or b) you are in over your head and need an advantage to compete.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:18 pm

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

When you cannot accept a random draw for draft slot as an acceptable way to form leagues, either a) you believe the game setup is unfair, or b) you are in over your head and need an advantage to compete. When you cannot accept a random draw for free agents as an acceptable way to assign free agents, either a) you believe the game setup is unfair, or b) you are in over your head and need an advantage to compete.

sorry lance, your point makes no sense

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:15 am

Originally posted by Gekko and The King:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

When you cannot accept a random draw for draft slot as an acceptable way to form leagues, either a) you believe the game setup is unfair, or b) you are in over your head and need an advantage to compete. When you cannot accept a random draw for free agents as an acceptable way to assign free agents, either a) you believe the game setup is unfair, or b) you are in over your head and need an advantage to compete.

sorry lance, your point makes no sense [/QUOTE]Oh good, I thought it was just me.

Lance, is this the result of pisssing against the winds of resistence of twice a week moves, combined with a little conspiracy theory reading and a lotta alcohol?

You know I love you too, Lance!

But I have no idea what you were trying to say here.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:34 am

Originally posted by Gekko and The King:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

When you cannot accept a random draw for draft slot as an acceptable way to form leagues, either a) you believe the game setup is unfair, or b) you are in over your head and need an advantage to compete. When you cannot accept a random draw for free agents as an acceptable way to assign free agents, either a) you believe the game setup is unfair, or b) you are in over your head and need an advantage to compete.

sorry lance, your point makes no sense [/QUOTE]I used to have a friend who was the only one who could understand another friend of ours when he was hammered. I think we need to have one for Lance here at the odd chance he has had something to drink.

I am a big proponent of bidding for draft slots. I just think it has zero chance of happening so I have given up on it. At this level of competition and these amounts of money anything that can remove luck/chance is good as long as it can be easily implemented.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:42 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

I am a big proponent of bidding for draft slots. I just think it has zero chance of happening so I have given up on it. At this level of competition and these amounts of money anything that can remove luck/chance is good as long as it can be easily implemented. if people are allowed to bid $1,000 on any free agent, they should be allowed to bid on something much more important, their draft slot.

even with KDS (helps most owners), it is far from being the most efficient way. you're right, knowing Greg's feelings, there is probably zero chance of BBDS happening.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:33 am

Originally posted by Gekko and The King:

quote:Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

I am a big proponent of bidding for draft slots. I just think it has zero chance of happening so I have given up on it. At this level of competition and these amounts of money anything that can remove luck/chance is good as long as it can be easily implemented. if people are allowed to bid $1,000 on any free agent, they should be allowed to bid on something much more important, their draft slot.

even with KDS (helps most owners), it is far from being the most efficient way. you're right, knowing Greg's feelings, there is probably zero chance of BBDS happening. [/QUOTE]I think the only legit debate against it is that it will make it too complicated to attract the new customer. I think if you ask a majority of guys want it. I can understand and do think that is something that you only consider implementing if a super majority wants it.

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:38 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

I think the only legit debate against it is that it will make it too complicated to attract the new customer. *no more complicated than using FAAB to bid on free agents.

*less complicated than explaining KDS.

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:45 am

i have to agree with gekko. easier to explain than kds.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:04 am

I agree with Chesty.

One of the the toughest things upon joining the NFBC is use of $1000 faab. To ask new customers to use it right off the bat would be a tough sell.

DOUGHBOYS · Post by **DOUGHBOYS** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:05 am

There are also a lot of folks that are happy with kds. And if they're happy, Greg is happy.

NorCalAtlFan · Post by **NorCalAtlFan** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:10 am

i think you don't give people enough credit. or maybe me and gekko give them too much?

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:51 am

Originally posted by NorCalAtlFan:

i think you don't give people enough credit. or maybe me and gekko give them too much? yes, some people think we are dealing with idiots. someone has to explain KDS to them, which is 10 times as confusing!

Asumijet · Post by **Asumijet** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:05 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

I agree with Chesty.

One of the the toughest things upon joining the NFBC is use of $1000 faab. To ask new customers to use it right off the bat would be a tough sell. That is the beauty of bidding for the KDS order. If you don't want to or do not get it (but lets give credit to everyone for being reasonably intelligent), then bid $1 and your done. If you decide not to bid, you get the best KDS position available after all bids (those willing to spend the FAAB on the spot) are processed.

As a relative new player (2nd year), allowing me to blow my FAAB on the draft spot would be a welcomed opportunity. I still spend the FAAB $$$ like a drunk sailor on leave. That aside, I am a much happier customer if I get my last choice because I decided not to bid, than because I was randomly drawn 15th in my league.

And bidding seems pretty intuitive, as well as technologically simple. We should test it in the early Mag and slow-drafts.

Asumijet · Post by **Asumijet** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:07 am

Originally posted by DOUGHBOYS:

There are also a lot of folks that are happy with kds. And if they're happy, Greg is happy. I am happy with KDS. It is better than random. I am just happier with KDS+ system because it takes more of the random away from the game.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:19 pm

Originally posted by Gekko and The King:

quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

When you cannot accept a random draw for draft slot as an acceptable way to form leagues, either a) you believe the game setup is unfair, or b) you are in over your head and need an advantage to compete. When you cannot accept a random draw for free agents as an acceptable way to assign free agents, either a) you believe the game setup is unfair, or b) you are in over your head and need an advantage to compete.

sorry lance, your point makes no sense [/QUOTE]WOW...I just assumed you all were smart!

In your case...most everyone would agree that randomly giving out free agents is unacceptable.

Now if you believe randomly giving out draft slots is unacceptable...you would be at best in a 50-50 debate, and more likely in the minority.

If you really have such a high level of disdain for random draft slots...a logical conclusion would be you believe the league setup is flawed and unfair.

If that is the case...stick with auction leagues.

If you believe that either snake drafting is acceptable, or that snake drafting with 3RR is acceptable and fair enough...you should not have a problem with random slot generation.

I may be wrong, but comparing apples to cars is a joke.

[ September 29, 2009, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]