Events Fees In 2010 For NFBC

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:34 am

We have bucked the industry trend over the last six years in the NFBC with Events Fees, but in 2010 the NFBC is going to add more food and beverage for each live event and thus we need to charge each principle owner a $50 Events Fee in certain cities. The $50 co-manager fee remains the same as in years past, so no change there. However, I promise that we'll give you more than your $50 worth in value.

Some folks have asked if the $50 Events Fee is just for the main event or if it's for some of the other side events. The answer is that the Events Fee will extend to each Friday live event on March 26th because we will step up there as well with food, beverage and goodies. I know those are lower entry fee leagues, but there's no reason to upscale just the Saturday event and then go back to chips and dip on Friday. So $50 Events Fees will be charged for those events.

However, there is no Events Fee or co-manager fee for the Sunday Super Leagues (or on Saturday for that matter), the Ultimate Leagues or the Diamond League. We are also NOT charging an Events Fee for ANY of the events March 19-21 at the Flamingo or March 19-20 in St. Louis. We will have more info on the East Coast venue March 19-21 once we finalize that contract, so stay tuned.

So here's a quick synopsis of the Events Fee:

NFBC Flamingo Las Vegas

Friday, March 19th

No Events Fees for NFBC Auction Championship or NFBC Live Double Play drafts. $50 co-manager fee for each

Saturday, March 20th

No Events Fees For NFBC Main Event. No Events Fee for Live Double Play drafts or NFBC Super League. $50 co-manager fee for Main Event and Live Double Play

Sunday, March 21st

No Events Fees for Super League, Ultimate League, Live Double Play or NFBC Auction Championship

Friday, March 26th

$1300 AL and NL Auction Leagues: $50 Events Fees, $50 co-manager fees

$800 NFBC Auction Championship: $50 Events Fees, $50 co-manager fees

$500 NFBC Live Double Play: $50 Events Fees, $50 co-manager fees

Saturday, March 27th

NFBC Main Event: $50 Events Fees, $50 co-manager fees

$500 NFBC Live Double Play: $50 Events Fees, $50 co-manager fees

$2,500 Super League: No Events Fee, no co-manager fee

Sunday, March 28th

Super League, Ultimate League, Diamond League: No Events fees, no co-manager fees

$500 NFBC Live Double Play: $50 Events Fees, $50 co-manager fees

$800 NFBC Auction Championship: $50 Events Fees, $50 co-manager fees

Again, no Events Fees in St. Louis March 19-20. Similar Events Fees will exist in Chicago and New York on March 26-28.

We needed to figure out a way to take our live events to a higher level and make this the BEST EXPERIENCE you could have on Draft Day. To do that, there was a cost involved, one that we are sharing with you because the cost per person at all of these venues for what we have planned is greater than $50 per person. But we didn't feel that debuting with a $100 Events Fee was right and we didn't want to raise the entry fee to $1400 or $1500 or lower the prize pool by 5% or more. Those were all options tossed about by our previous owners and I didn't feel they would fly.

So we settled on the $50 Events Fees and agreed that we even needed to give more value to the previous $50 co-manager fees. I think those with co-managers are getting a much improved package from us.

Hopefully you'll understand. So now the next question is: What's on the menu Ryan E. Houston?!!!

Thanks all.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:03 am

Is the $50 Events Fee specific to cover the entire team entry for multiple owners of one team seperate of any Co-manager fee or will each person sitting at the table to draft the team be subject to the $50 Events Fee in addition to the Co-Manager Fee?

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:20 am

the NFBC is going to add more food and beverage for each live event and thus we need to charge each principle owner a $50 Events Fee...However, I promise that we'll give you more than your $50 worth in value. Seriously, no offense, and maybe I'm just a little too focused on the phrasing, but I assumed that the fee was for the venue and not just the food. The Belaggio only charges $30 for their buffet by way of comparison.

[ October 17, 2009, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: bjoak ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:49 am

Originally posted by Sack:

Is the $50 Events Fee specific to cover the entire team entry for multiple owners of one team seperate of any Co-manager fee or will each person sitting at the table to draft the team be subject to the $50 Events Fee in addition to the Co-Manager Fee? Correct if you and Frank are partners in the NFBC main event at the Bellagio the cost is $1300 for your team, $50 Events Fee for you and $50 for Frank, total of $1400. It's a $50 increase from last year for the two of you, but more food and drink for both of you. HOpe that explains it.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:51 am

Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:the NFBC is going to add more food and beverage for each live event and thus we need to charge each principle owner a $50 Events Fee...However, I promise that we'll give you more than your $50 worth in value. Seriously, no offense, and maybe I'm just a little too focused on the phrasing, but I assumed that the fee was for the venue and not just the food. The Belaggio only charges $30 for their buffet by way of comparison.

[/QUOTE]No offense taken and it is for food and drink and yes it will cost us more than $30 per person for what we're offering. None of the Events Fee is to cover our normal expenses: facility space, facilitators, draft boards, etc. Just food and beverage. We're upgrading the EVENT and we hope folks understand that.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:00 am

Greg:

Thanks, but I'm trying to be more specific.

My $50 is for the Events Fee, I understand that. Is the $50 for Frank considered a Co-Manager fee or an Events Fee?

I'm hoping to make it to Arizona to speak to you directly about my feelings on this without going to the board. Plus, I'm real curious to see how this is going to go over. I'm more than a little surprised more people didn't respond to this, so maybe I'm in the minority.

I will say this, you have given us choices that have financial consequences to consider. I think that is VERY POSITIVE.

[ October 17, 2009, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Sack ]

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:21 am

Originally posted by Sack:

Greg:

Thanks, but I'm trying to be more specific.

My $50 is for the Events Fee, I understand that. Is the $50 for Frank considered a Co-Manager fee or an Events Fee?

Sack, Greg has already stated that the $50 co-manager fee will cover the event fee for that player, what you name it doesn't really matter. Why was there ever a co-mgr fee? It was to cover the cost of an extra body at the event, which is pretty much the same definition as an events fee.

If it were me, I'd just simplify the terminology and do away with the co-mgr fee and call it a $50 events fee per team manager attending.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 6:27 am

[ October 17, 2009, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:06 am

KJ DUKE:

Thanks for your clarification, but with several threads and some terminology obviously in question by rereading your own post, I'd prefer GREG to clear this up for me.

These new wrinkles will decide when, where and with whom I decide to play. Appreciate your input pal.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:36 am

Originally posted by Sack:

Greg:

Thanks, but I'm trying to be more specific.

My $50 is for the Events Fee, I understand that. Is the $50 for Frank considered a Co-Manager fee or an Events Fee?

I'm hoping to make it to Arizona to speak to you directly about my feelings on this without going to the board. Plus, I'm real curious to see how this is going to go over. I'm more than a little surprised more people didn't respond to this, so maybe I'm in the minority.

I will say this, you have given us choices that have financial consequences to consider. I think that is VERY POSITIVE. Yes, it's just one fee for the co-manager. KJ is correct, maybe we just call it an Events Fee for every person at the draft table and eliminate the terminology co-manager fee.

I'm open to the discussion for the Events Fee. Honestly, when we first debuted the NFBC in 2004 we had MVP Sports.com as our sponsor and they paid for drinks, provided portfolios for everyone and helped us give value to everyone who attended. In past years, I tried to keep up the tradition of us buying the first few drinks without a sponsor and even any food – even the coffee, chips and dips, rolls, etc. – added to a big expense on the events side of our ledger. In the little bit that we provided free of charge in the past, costs were over $25,000 among the various cities.

That expense is going to rise because we now have to show value for that $50 Events Fee. And we will. I understand any concern folks may have on this extra fee – a tax if you will that wasn't there the past six years – but honestly the discussion will have more merit after you see what we provide for this expense. I hope it doesn't prevent folks from entering some of our events, but like you said, there are options out there for everyone and the consumer is king with their decisions. We know that.

It's just the reality of hosting live events: Participants want a better experience and that experience comes at a cost. You saw the NFFC boards about the lack of food. Folks were blasting me and praising the two other live events, even though they charged $125 and $150 per person. Well, I didn't charge anything and got blasted. So now we'll provide food and drinks at each city and make this a better EVENT for all of you. And afterwards, hopefully you'll agree the extra expense was money well spent.

rkulaski · Post by **rkulaski** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:41 am

All I can say is now I go have one heck of a meal for $50 for TWO people in many restaurants. The price seems pretty steep but I'll wait to hear what's on the menu.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:06 am

Originally posted by rkulaski:

All I can say is now I go have one heck of a meal for $50 for TWO people in many restaurants. The price seems pretty steep but I'll wait to hear what's on the menu. Where are you having a heck of a meal for two for $50? Sizzler doesn't count....

Glenn

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:13 am

Greg:

Thanks, eliminating the Co-Manager terminology for the Bellagio run events to read Events Fee seems as if it would be easier to understand. Then, when you detail what this extra $50 gives you it will help people make a decision on the true worth.

I want to remain positive on these boards, negative repsonses aren't going to help grow this event which in the end is what I would like to see take place. If I make it to Arizona, I hope to find a few minutes for discussion.

As your second registered customer from that first season, I will not participate in any of the leagues with an events fee at this time. My "events fees" will come in the form of: Airplane, Hotel, and Rental Car charges to attend an NFBC hosted event. I want to play in these events to draft a baseball team, not partake in whatever chips and dips are provided. This holds true if the Chips and Dips are Filet Mignon and Prime Rib. All I see, today, is an added cost of doing business. Similiar to a bank charging you to take your own money out of your savings account. You've given us options this year, that is good.

Now, it isn't bad enough that this is going to be part of the Main Event, but if I chose a SECOND event on Friday, I have to pay this fee 2x?

Excellent chance here to give a player willing to take part in more than one event a chance to lessen the hit, isn't that fair?

I'll give you credit, you've made that first weekend much more attractive. Good business sense.

I'm going forward in considering ONLY those events without the TAX. I'll keep an open mind and follow along with how this turns out, but as of today, no event carrying an Events Fee will be in consideration on my end.

[ October 17, 2009, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Sack ]

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:19 am

Originally posted by rkulaski:

All I can say is now I go have one heck of a meal for $50 for TWO people in many restaurants. The price seems pretty steep but I'll wait to hear what's on the menu. I don't view events fee as = food fee. We're drafting at a much better venue, and it's not like the Bellagio gives away convention space just for bringing in a hundred people. The discounted rooms at Bellagio alone make up for it several times over, $50 is a bargain.

edit - Sack, I don't get your negatviity at all on this, and I think you're misunderstanding the events fee. I believe it is a 1-time, draft all you want per person charge.

Greg - could you clarify the events fee, I pay it once only no matter how many teams I draft, correct?

[ October 17, 2009, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:29 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by rkulaski:

All I can say is now I go have one heck of a meal for $50 for TWO people in many restaurants. The price seems pretty steep but I'll wait to hear what's on the menu. I don't view events fee as = food fee. We're drafting at a much better venue, and it's not like the Bellagio gives away convention space just for bringing in a hundred people. The discounted rooms at Bellagio alone make up for it several times over, $50 is a bargain.

edit - Sack, I don't get your negatviity at all on this, and I think you're misunderstanding the events fee. I believe it is a 1-time, draft all you want per person charge.

Greg - could you clarify the events fee, I pay it once only no matter how many teams I draft, correct? [/QUOTE]Greg had posted earlier that each of the drafts the 2nd weekend would carry this fee, outside of the super, ultimate, & diamond.

Glenn

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:36 am

While I never what to pay more for anything I do understand there are expenses involved in live drafting. I am willing to wait and see what else we may be given. Greg seems to imply we will get more than before and that it will be way more than $50 worth. The only thing that concerns me is that drafting in Chi I don't want to pay for the upgrade in Vegas. The Belagio is very nice and definitely expensive. I hope we at the less preffered locations don't have to help pay the more stylish and cool venue. Sorry, my mother beat me into being a cheapskate.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:37 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by rkulaski:

All I can say is now I go have one heck of a meal for $50 for TWO people in many restaurants. The price seems pretty steep but I'll wait to hear what's on the menu. I don't view events fee as = food fee. We're drafting at a much better venue, and it's not like the Bellagio gives away convention space just for bringing in a hundred people. The discounted rooms at Bellagio alone make up for it several times over, $50 is a bargain.

edit - Sack, I don't get your negatviity at all on this, and I think you're misunderstanding the events fee. I believe it is a 1-time, draft all you want per person charge.

Greg - could you clarify the events fee, I pay it once only no matter how many teams I draft, correct? [/QUOTE]Greg had posted earlier that each of the drafts the 2nd weekend would carry this fee, outside of the super, ultimate, & diamond.

Glenn [/QUOTE]If we have to pay a fee for each draft, rather than just once no matter which event we're in, Sack may have a point.

[ October 17, 2009, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

Vander · Post by **Vander** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:39 am

Was also wondering if it was a one time fee or if we had to pay for each draft/auction. Still willing to wait and see how it all plays out with more details.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:45 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:

quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:

quote:Originally posted by rkulaski:

All I can say is now I go have one heck of a meal for $50 for TWO people in many restaurants. The price seems pretty steep but I'll wait to hear what's on the menu. I don't view events fee as = food fee. We're drafting at a much better venue, and it's not like the Bellagio gives away convention space just for bringing in a hundred people. The discounted rooms at Bellagio alone make up for it several times over, $50 is a bargain.

edit - Sack, I don't get your negatviity at all on this, and I think you're misunderstanding the events fee. I believe it is a 1-time, draft all you want per person charge.

Greg - could you clarify the events fee, I pay it once only no matter how many teams I draft, correct? [/QUOTE]Greg had posted earlier that each of the drafts the 2nd weekend would carry this fee, outside of the super, ultimate, & diamond.

Glenn [/QUOTE]If we have to pay a fee for each draft, rather than just once no matter which event we're in, Sack may have a point. [/QUOTE]See the first post in this thread ^^^^^^^

Plus Greg clarified it earlier when someone else asked the question....

Glenn

Red Sox Nation · Post by **Red Sox Nation** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:47 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by bjoak:

quote:the NFBC is going to add more food and beverage for each live event and thus we need to charge each principle owner a $50 Events Fee...However, I promise that we'll give you more than your $50 worth in value. Seriously, no offense, and maybe I'm just a little too focused on the phrasing, but I assumed that the fee was for the venue and not just the food. The Belaggio only charges $30 for their buffet by way of comparison.

[/QUOTE]No offense taken and it is for food and drink and yes it will cost us more than $30 per person for what we're offering. None of the Events Fee is to cover our normal expenses: facility space, facilitators, draft boards, etc. Just food and beverage. We're upgrading the EVENT and we hope folks understand that. [/QUOTE]Since the events fee is to strictly cover food and beverage why not give participants the choice? We can pay the $50 and get food and beverage or not pay and get no food and drink. You could stamp hands or give bracelets to the folks who pay. Just an idea.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:02 am

KJ:

I've decided to stay away from negative posting, I stated that I would keep an open mind until I've seen what Greg tells us we are getting for the additional cost.

I'm stating that from MY standpoint, I'm unwilling to pay an extra $50 for an Events Fee. I'm not being negative towards the NFBC, I'm proving feedback that in this one instance ( my entry fee ) that I'm going to choose to play an Event w/out the $50 fee. I was under the impression that is a good thing. A positive. I'm giving feedback to the people running the event, at no charge. The eventual signups - or lack of signups will eventually be the loudest voice.

I've also played these events in the past with partners and family. Those options now have financial consequences that will impact what/when/where I play.

If I've missed a post explaining that if I play in the MAIN EVENT for an EVENTS FEE of $50 and that one fee covers me on separate leagues on separate days for the Live Double Play and Auction Chamionship than I think it needs to be a bit clearer.

In regard to the room rates, those are great. But they really don't factor for me in deciding whether or not to play an individual format/ NFBC styled game. Nor do I think I should have to pay extra for the venue. I'm simply going to pass on those events and select events without the tax.

[ October 17, 2009, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Sack ]

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:10 am

My guess is there may be anouncements still coming regarding early bird specials or multiple event signup discounts that would help offset these event fees similar to what they offered for the NFFC doubleheader or what the WCOFF offers for multiple Main Event teams.

Glenn

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:31 am

Originally posted by Sack:

Greg:

Thanks, eliminating the Co-Manager terminology for the Bellagio run events to read Events Fee seems as if it would be easier to understand. Then, when you detail what this extra $50 gives you it will help people make a decision on the true worth.

I want to remain positive on these boards, negative repsonses aren't going to help grow this event which in the end is what I would like to see take place. If I make it to Arizona, I hope to find a few minutes for discussion.

As your second registered customer from that first season, I will not participate in any of the leagues with an events fee at this time. My "events fees" will come in the form of: Airplane, Hotel, and Rental Car charges to attend an NFBC hosted event. I want to play in these events to draft a baseball team, not partake in whatever chips and dips are provided. This holds true if the Chips and Dips are Filet Mignon and Prime Rib. All I see, today, is an added cost of doing business. Similiar to a bank charging you to take your own money out of your savings account. You've given us options this year, that is good.

Now, it isn't bad enough that this is going to be part of the Main Event, but if I chose a SECOND event on Friday, I have to pay this fee 2x?

Excellent chance here to give a player willing to take part in more than one event a chance to lessen the hit, isn't that fair?

I'll give you credit, you've made that first weekend much more attractive. Good business sense.

I'm going forward in considering ONLY those events without the TAX. I'll keep an open mind and follow along with how this turns out, but as of today, no event carrying an Events Fee will be in consideration on my end. There is nothing negative Kenny about you expressing your opinion on this subject. Every event on the first weekend of March has NO EVENTS FEE. If drafting at the Flamingo appeals to you and the $50 savings is important then the choice is easy. But the cost of renting 22,000 square feet at the Bellagio compared to 15,000 square feet at the Flamingo is not even close and we are assuming a lot more costs outside of the added food and beverage.

But posts like these are very important to us and allows us to take into account all thoughts about this subject. Yes, we have additional costs per person with space, food and beverage on Friday and Sunday at the Bellagio, and our plan is to upgrade the proceedings in each city for those events, too. We are planning Events Fees for each of those events.

But there's something to be said for rewarding folks who take multiple entries for any of our events on the second weekend. Sack has created dialogue that we are addressing internally right now, so that's a good thing. Stay positive and let Ryan, Charlie, me and Tom work through this thought process, look up the numbers and see if there's a way to make this work for all of us.

I know some people would be just as happy drafting in a basement with no food or drink or draft boards or anything. Just keep the entry fee and pay back 75%, right? Well, we're trying to take this to a better place and we think the majority of our players want that. And with that is a cost.

But you have us thinking now, so stay tuned.

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:43 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:

Greg had posted earlier that each of the drafts the 2nd weekend would carry this fee, outside of the super, ultimate, & diamond.

See the first post in this thread ^^^^^^^

Plus Greg clarified it earlier when someone else asked the question....

Glenn Thx Glenn, I did miss part of the discussion. Valid points here by Sack and all.

Participating in multiple events should be encouraged thru pricing, not discouraged. I have no problem with a 1-time events fee (from both a player standpoint and business standpoint), but charging that per event makes no sense to me from either perspective. It would make sense to bury (eliminate) multiple events fees into any multi-team incentive.

Now I'll zip it until Greg lays out the whole plan.

[ October 17, 2009, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:11 am

Greg, personally, I was very borderline on the double play and I think the fee made up my mind on that. I know you're not worried about my little decisions but maybe others feel the same way.

As for the main event, I think I'd definitely feel better about the charge if you gave us some indication of what they're planning to have for us (and when they're planning to have it, i.e. before/during/after the draft). I have a hard time believing that whatever I eat will be *worth* $50, but if I at least know that I will not need to drop $20-30 on breakfast beforehand, it will help to justify the cost in my mind.

I think that though some folks complained about two weekends they were mollified when you made the Bellagio announcement. Announcing what you have planned for the $50 really might have the same effect here. We don't need the precise details if you don't have them, but I think it'd be great to demystify them a little bit. We trust you, but when you say give us $50 and we'll give you something special, well, it's just not very concrete in our minds as consumers.

Also, I liked the optional charge someone brought up. I never ate at the drafts and never had a problem with what was or wasn't offered.