NFBC Message Boards

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:18 am

Greg/Tom:

The purpose of KDS is to give owners a little input in the draft slot allocation process.

My question/suggestion is as follows...

Once you determine the 15 owners in a league, how do you determine which owner's KDS to evaluate first? What do you do if that owner has not submitted any KDS preferences?

Maybe you already do it this way, but here is my suggestion; if someone has NOT submitted KDS that means they are indifferent to draft slots and should be passed over when allocating draft slots until all owners who did supply KDS (in a given league) have their draft slots. This method of allocation will make the most owners happy as more owners will get a more preferred preference.

Mudster · Post by **Mudster** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:36 am

I believe I saw something last year on this. I think they draw the names out randomly as if it is the draft order, then go down the line with each person's top KDS draft position left available. If someone doesn't place their KDS preference in they get 1-15 in order, but they shouldn't be penalized for it. Not placing one in the first place should actually be penalty enough in having to deal with getting just what is given to you.

[ March 05, 2007, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Mudster ]

Buster · Post by **Buster** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:40 am

Unfortunately, that suggestion won't work.

Assuming for the sake of argument that, after an arduous month of going over the numbers, participating in mock drafts, etc., I determine that I want my KDS to be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, how would Greg/Tom know that I didn't actually set my KDS, but instead opted for the default.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:49 am

Buster - when some clicks "submit", a record in a log is generated. Guess you are a little light on the "computer" knowledge

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:52 am

Originally posted by Mudster:

If someone doesn't place their KDS preference in they get 1-15 in order. Why not give a default KDS to everyone of 15-1, unless owners change it by clicking submit?

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:56 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

quote:Originally posted by Mudster:

If someone doesn't place their KDS preference in they get 1-15 in order. Why not give a default KDS to everyone of 15-1, unless owners change it by clicking submit? [/QUOTE]I think if you don't hit the submit button, you are automatically assigned the 16th slot

Buster · Post by **Buster** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:13 am

Gekko:

Perhaps you are a bit light upstairs. I don't need to hit submit, as the default is 1-15.

You may wish to consider the advice of Mark Twain, Abraham Lincoln, George Eliot, Groucho Marx, Albert Einstein, and Silvan Engel (all who have been credited at one time or another with the following):

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

Wait, it's probably too late in your case.

On second thought, strike the "probably."

Buster

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:22 am

Buster - I didn't mean to insult you. Just pointing out that your comment had no merit.

As far as the default being 1-15, you are currently correct.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:45 am

Originally posted by Mudster:

I believe I saw something last year on this. I think they draw the names out randomly as if it is the draft order, then go down the line with each person's top KDS draft position left available. If someone doesn't place their KDS preference in they get 1-15 in order, but they shouldn't be penalized for it. Not placing one in the first place should actually be penalty enough in having to deal with getting just what is given to you. This is correct. We pull 15 names out of a hat (literally ) just like we would for a random draft. We then go right down the list to see who wants to draft where based on their KDS settings.

So Gordon, if you were the first name drawn out of a hat you would get your first KDS preference no matter what since you would be first on the list. And then on and on until we have all 15 people slotted into one league.

The site has the KDS preferences slotted in the 1-15 default format. So if for some reason somebody didn't set theirs, we'd go off the 1-15 and that's where they would pick.

Make sense?

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:47 am

I'm curious why you would want the default to be anything other than 1-15.

Do you wish to punish people for not playing the KDS game? Looking at the posted KDS results...there are MANY who want the earliest draft position they can get...and leaving the default 1-15 assures they will get the earliest possible draft pick.

~Lance

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:49 am

Tom - I understand everything you said, but why is 1-15 the default KDS setting for owners who don't submit any preferences? Why not, 15-1?

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:50 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Tom - I understand everything you said, but why is 1-15 the default KDS setting for owners who don't submit any preferences? Why not, 15-1? Because the order of the draft is 1 through 15. Simple as that Gordon.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:58 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

I'm curious why you would want the default to be anything other than 1-15.

Do you wish to punish people for not playing the KDS game? I'm not sure what you mean. If an owner doesn't play the free agent (FAAB) game, they don't get a top free agent by default.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:04 am

Tom,

Just doing a little thinking out loud here- ever consider a slight adjustment.

Gordon wants pick one he is first out of the hat in Tampa- he gets slot one league one, Greg is second out of the hat he also wants pick one and has it first so he gets slot one in league 2 rather than his 2nd choice in league one.

Does not seem that much more complicated to me, it is still random, and even more people would get their most desired draft slots.

Have not given this much thought- so go ahead and pick it apart?

To me in the end it gives for at least the first 80% of the people pulled out of the hat a good chance of you all being able to find them one of their 3 favorite slots.

[ March 05, 2007, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Chest Rockwell ]

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:05 am

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about KDS for draft position. I must have been thrown off by the title of this thread.

So...we are talking about Free Agent Blind Bidding?

What about FABB?

~Lance

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:11 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

Gordon wants pick one he is first out of the hat in Tampa- he gets slot one league one, Greg is second out of the hat he also wants pick one and has it first so he gets slot one in league 2 rather than his 2nd choice in league one.

Does not seem that much more complicated to me, it is still random, and even more people would get their most desired draft slots.

Have not given this much thought- so go ahead and pick it apart?

To me in the end it gives for at least the first 80% of the people pulled out of the hat a good chance of you all being able to find them one of their 3 favorite slots. VERY interesting. I gave this 60 seconds of thought and couldn't come up with any drawbacks. The positives have already been mentioned.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:13 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about KDS for draft position. I must have been thrown off by the title of this thread.

So...we are talking about Free Agent Blind Bidding?

What about FABB?

~Lance Lance - have you been drinking again?

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:22 am

Logistical nightmare if done manually

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:24 am

Not yet GG...not yet.

(my first Graemlin!)

It's just we were talking apples...and you changed the subject to oranges.

As for Chest...

It would be cumbersome to say..."OK...we need a 4 and an 11 to fill this league over here...how will we work in these guys into the mix and keep it all legit."

It would also remove much of the randomness. You'd now have to force teams to match up...rather than selecting leagues first with pure random selection. Selecting randomly the order to look at their KDS, and slot them in. I'm not sure the method you spoke of would help keep the randomness true. Not sure.

~Lance

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:30 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

Not yet GG...not yet.

(my first Graemlin!)

It's just we were talking apples...and you changed the subject to oranges.

As for Chest...

It would be cumbersome to say..."OK...we need a 4 and an 11 to fill this league over here...how will we work in these guys into the mix and keep it all legit."

It would also remove much of the randomness. You'd now have to force teams to match up...rather than selecting leagues first with pure random selection. Selecting randomly the order to look at their KDS, and slot them in. I'm not sure the method you spoke of would help keep the randomness true. Not sure.

~Lance Lance you may get over with Gordon with that answer but come on- My first selection is 8 Tom any eights open in any leagues, no move to next.

Never suggested force feeding leagues- as your four and 11 example notes- KDS takes care of everything spot four in league one will stay open until someone's KDS preferences determine it needs to be filled.

Will it take a bit longer sure not much, no change in randomness at all.

Now here is the only potential downside those last 10 percent pulled out will get no help from this and now they will be drafting against a field where even more people are drafting where they are most comfortable.

The goal of KDS is to give as many people as possible their favorite draft slots- does my system not promote that concept?

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:31 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Logistical nightmare if done manually You would need a grid and 2 people to do it.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:36 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:

Logistical nightmare if done manually You would need a grid and 2 people to do it. [/QUOTE]As I said, this would be a nightmare if done manually. Imagine if a mistake was found after all 120 slots were assigned. Domino effect

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:42 am

It just seems to "filter" the random aspect.

Example...

Random selection made..."Nope...that one won't work for this league...pull another"...repeat.

Doesn't seem random. It's not cheating or something pre-planned...but it is no longer random. IMO

It would be more like "assembled" now...like putting a bike together.

~Lance

[ March 05, 2007, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:46 am

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:

It just seems to "filter" the random aspect.

Example...

Random selection made..."Nope...that one won't work for this league...pull another"...repeat.

Doesn't seem random. It's not cheating or something pre-planned...but it is no longer random. IMO

~Lance I am obviously not explaining it correctly or your bottle is half empty at noon.

You go across the board looking to fill each slot- you let the KDS preference in front of you dictate what you do not what is open in a particular league.

Mute point- even if it is a good idea,not 100% positive it is, too late to change up people's expectations but it is something to ponder in future years.

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:54 am

"Now here is the only potential downside those last 10 percent pulled out will get no help from this and now they will be drafting against a field where even more people are drafting where they are most comfortable."

I think this reason alone out-weighs the benefits.

You would change a random KDS influenced draft into an "assembled" KDS maximised draft that SCREWS the last 10%, and thus would not be in the best interest of the event.

~Lance

[ March 05, 2007, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: sportsbettingman ]