Jerry Owens

Bobby J · Post by **Bobby J** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:51 am

help me to understand, because I cannot find his game stats quickly from last year, how is he UTL, since he played 12 games and only had 9 ab, it shows on his bio, 5 games in OF and 6 at DH, when was the last time you say 6 box scores much less 1 with the DH only get 1 ab per game

Bobby J · Post by **Bobby J** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:57 am

found info I was looking for. 5 games in OF, 1 as a PH and 6 as a Pinch runner, so based on this he qualifies as UT???, he played all 129 other games in OF for minor league team

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 11:25 am

using the bazooka on the mice is looking better and better!

Buster · Post by **Buster** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:30 pm

Here is Greg's quote on the Cust situation, back on May 21:

[Cust] was an outfielder in the minors in 2006, he was an outfielder in the minors in 2007 and he played his only position in the outfield with the Padres last year. Thus I left his outfield designation as soon as he was allowed in the NFBC.

Now, the facts about Jerry Owens:

Owens was an outfielder in the minors in 2006, Owens was an outfielder in the minors in 2007, and Owens played in the outfield with the White Sox last year.

So, why is Owens a UT, but Cust an OF?

Get out your bazooka Doughboys, unless you favor mistakes and inequities.

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:41 am

Originally posted by Buster:

Here is Greg's quote on the Cust situation, back on May 21:

[Cust] was an outfielder in the minors in 2006, he was an outfielder in the minors in 2007 and he played his only position in the outfield with the Padres last year. Thus I left his outfield designation as soon as he was allowed in the NFBC.

Now, the facts about Jerry Owens:

Owens was an outfielder in the minors in 2006, Owens was an outfielder in the minors in 2007, and Owens played in the outfield with the White Sox last year.

So, why is Owens a UT, but Cust an OF?

Get out your bazooka Doughboys, unless you favor mistakes and inequities. I thought there wasn't double jeapardy in the court system. Cust was already sentence for a crime(a DH posing as an outfielder)when they found out it should have been a different charge-fraud(pretending to be Barry Bonds for 10 days). Mr. Owen is just going to trial. The charge stands. I'm sure in the court system everything is fair. Every guilty party goes to jail. No one ever slips through the cracks. The innocent never go to jail. Lawyers never lie. Where is OJ anyways? NFBC is charged with a misdemeaner. Cust slipped through the cracks. All they can do is hope to get them right going forward. Can we move on? Greg said he would work on clarifying the rules in the off-season.

bluenose · Post by **bluenose** » Sat Jun 02, 2007 2:20 pm

Let's just get a ruling by Sunday afternoon and abide by it.

Chest Rockwell · Post by **Chest Rockwell** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:18 am

bump- this means a difference of at least 100 bucks of what I will bid. Need clarification-

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:35 am

Originally posted by Chest Rockwell:

bump- this means a difference of at least 100 bucks of what I will bid. Need clarification- i know some people are going to bid a lot this week. this kid is leading off for the white sox and has MAJOR wheels. if he plays FT the rest of the way, 30 steals is a distinct possibility.

[ June 03, 2007, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:48 am

Sniff...sniff...

Does anyone else here smell De Aza?

~Lance

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:40 am

Originally posted by Bobby J:

help me to understand, because I cannot find his game stats quickly from last year, how is he UTL, since he played 12 games and only had 9 ab, it shows on his bio, 5 games in OF and 6 at DH, when was the last time you say 6 box scores much less 1 with the DH only get 1 ab per game Bobby, I apologize as I didn't see this question in this forum over the weekend. I thought I had checked all of the new posts when I came into the office on Saturday and Sunday, but somehow I missed this one.

STATS has Owens as DHing in the majority of the games he entered in the majors last year and thus put him at UT-only. I saw that as well yesterday when I wanted to bid for him in the Content Panel League where I have Frank Thomas at UT. Yes, it was only nine at-bats, but it looks like five of them came as a DH. He remains UT-only as he was listed yesterday and will qualify at OF once he plays 10 games there.

headhunters · Post by **headhunters** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:38 am

dear gecko- sinceansweredcan't catch- or fig in your contest i chose owens- if he stays and plays- 30 is a lock. i may have even predicted the injuries to pods and erstad. he is better than both- although he is not a center fielder and would hate to see the sox become the cubs who play a 2nd basemen at shortstop , 6 outfielders that can't play the outfield, a 3rd basemen that really only wants to be a dh and only run when he victorino was already is sure it is a hit and a catcher that ht.

[ June 04, 2007, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: headhunters ]

Bobby J · Post by **Bobby J** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:00 am

Greg, I actually checked his major league stats from last year and Stats was incorrect in their positioning, he did not DH in one game, he played the OF in 5 games, pinch ran in 6 and pinch hit in 1, he should have been classified as OF. I know it is too late now, but just another exasmple of Stats not knowing their STATS, pardon the pun

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:46 am

Originally posted by Bobby J:

Greg, I actually checked his major league stats from last year and Stats was incorrect in their positioning, he did not DH in one game, he played the OF in 5 games, pinch ran in 6 and pinch hit in 1, he should have been classified as OF. I know it is too late now, but just another exasmple of Stats not knowing their STATS, pardon the pun I don't know where you got those stats from Bobby, but let me know and I'll double check. STATS e-mailed me their box scores from every game he played in last year and they have him as DHing six times and playing the outfield five times. That's the criteria they went off of for his position eligility. The Bill James Handbook has him pinch-hitting twice and pinch-running seven times, for what it's worth, along with DHing five times.

JohnZ · Post by **JohnZ** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:28 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

quote:Originally posted by Bobby J:

Greg, I actually checked his major league stats from last year and Stats was incorrect in their positioning, he did not DH in one game, he played the OF in 5 games, pinch ran in 6 and pinch hit in 1, he should have been classified as OF. I know it is too late now, but just another exasmple of Stats not knowing their STATS, pardon the pun I don't know where you got those stats from Bobby, but let me know and I'll double check. STATS e-mailed me their box scores from every game he played in last year and they have him as DHing six times and playing the outfield five times. That's the criteria they went off of for his position eligility. The Bill James Handbook has him pinch-hitting twice and pinch-running seven times, for what it's worth, along with DHing five times. [/QUOTE]Stats Inc is smoking something.

****://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1 ... &year=2006

Bobby J · Post by **Bobby J** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:55 am

Thanks, UFS, that is the exact place I got the info also. Maybe STATS need to save that link in their favorites

sportsbettingman · Post by **sportsbettingman** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:35 pm

In a perfect world re: NFBC position eligibility...beginning next season...if you don't START THE GAME at a position...the entire game doesn't count toward position eligibility.

(No pinch runner/pinch hitter impact.)

~Lance

Kevin D · Post by **Kevin D** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:21 pm

Instead of a strict interpatation of eligibilty rules and standards for players that are in question when they are initially called up in a given season. The Commissioner should rule(He has--Owens is UTL only to start.)However, I disgree with ruling. A sense of reality should be applied and not just a strict rule.To me Jerry Owens IS!!! an Outfielder and should be eligible there. BUT!! the Commish... RULES.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:36 pm

Question for the rules junkies: does a pinch runner assume the position of the player he replaced if he does not play defense in the next half inning? In particular, what happens if a DH is replaced by a pinch runner? (the DH obviously does not take the field).

More than likely, Jerry Owens entered the game 6 times last year for a DH (probably Jim Thome) and accumulated zero at-bats in those games. Should these games be counted as DH appearances, or as a positionless game? Strike that -- I already know what should happen. How does Major League Baseball list it in the Red Book (or is it the Green Book)?

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:59 pm

Originally posted by King of Queens:

Question for the rules junkies: does a pinch runner assume the position of the player he replaced if he does not play defense in the next half inning? In particular, what happens if a DH is replaced by a pinch runner? (the DH obviously does not take the field).

More than likely, Jerry Owens entered the game 6 times last year for a DH (probably Jim Thome) and accumulated zero at-bats in those games. Should these games be counted as DH appearances, or as a positionless game? Strike that -- I already know what should happen. How does Major League Baseball list it in the Red Book (or is it the Green Book)? now pinch running counts for position eligibility?!? i understand that more eligibility clarity will be made in the 2008 rules, but it would sure help out to have the clarity in place for the remainder of this season. is that feasible?

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:54 pm

I checked baseball-reference for Jerry Owens' gamelog in 2006. Owens appeared in 12 games last year. Here's the breakdown:

1. 9/11/06 PR (no position played)

2. 9/12/06 PR (no position played)

3. 9/13/06 PR (no position played)

4. 9/19/06 PR, then played CF

5. 9/20/06 PR (no position played)

6. 9/21/06 PH, then played CF

7. 9/23/06 PR (no position played)

8. 9/24/06 PR (no position played)

9. 9/25/06 RF

10. 9/26/06 PH (no position played)

11. 9/27/06 CF

12. 9/29/06 CF

Note that he did not appear as a DH even once. Totals are 5 games played at OF, 0 games played at any other position.

Unless I'm missing something (such as an arcane rule that players that PH for DH assume the DH position), STATS screwed up here.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:55 pm

Originally posted by King of Queens:

Unless I'm missing something (such as an arcane rule that players that PH for DH assume the DH position), STATS screwed up here. in any event, owens needs to stay at the position he was bid out as, Utility only.

BUT, if we can get more clarity to apply to callups for the remainder of THIS season, it would be very much appreciated. Thanks.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:54 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

Question for the rules junkies: does a pinch runner assume the position of the player he replaced if he does not play defense in the next half inning? In particular, what happens if a DH is replaced by a pinch runner? (the DH obviously does not take the field).

More than likely, Jerry Owens entered the game 6 times last year for a DH (probably Jim Thome) and accumulated zero at-bats in those games. Should these games be counted as DH appearances, or as a positionless game? Strike that -- I already know what should happen. How does Major League Baseball list it in the Red Book (or is it the Green Book)? This is a good question and I'm actually on my way to meet with STATS in Chicago today about some NFFC programming I need done. I am going to ask them about this situation because when I look at Owens' game-by-game data last year, it's obvious that STATS and even the Bill James Handbook has him at DH 5-6 times when in fact he doesn't have an at-bat in some of those games. There's no way he should have a DH listing if he actually pinch-ran for Thome. That's not a position.

The position designation for Owens was set by STATS according to our rules and I have to stand by it. But I will ask them about his DH listings from last year because I'm not sure they are totally correct, unless that's how MLB and STATS both give a player a designation when they enter a game.

Should be a good conversation today. Talk to you all tomorrow about this.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:06 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

The position designation for Owens was set by STATSVery true

poopy tooth · Post by **poopy tooth** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:59 pm

I am watching the Indians-Royals game. Mike Sweeney got a hit. He was pinch run for. The announcers said, the Royals want to take their chances now, even though the DH spot could come up again in the 9th...they are pulling Sweeney.

Now, of course, the Royals being, well...the Royals, the pinch runner was thrown out trying to steal second, but I think 1 player qualifies at DH, once he's lifted, you lose the DH and the pitcher must hit. I could be wring, but that's what it sounded like.

To me, there would be less proble,s solved if the rule used the wording defensive position. You could use DH to count the DH's, but pinch running and pinch hitting only should not count. Just my opinion.

Buster · Post by **Buster** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 3:10 pm

Mike:

You only lose your DH if the DH goes into the field. Otherwise, the PR is in the DH spot in your example.

Buster